Injury getting back to port in Mazatlan

[k8russ8]

My cabin mate was injured badly when returning to the ship from a HAL sponsored tour in Mazatlan.We were on Oosterdam. She tripped and fell on an uneven curb as she left the bus. She put her tooth through her lip and fractured the tooth into four pieces(unbeknownst to her until a later date). She also injured her wrist and elbow. Her knee immediately swelled to a grapefruit size and turned black and blue as you looked at it.She had a huge blood blister on her big toe. She was attended to by a fellow passenger and I. He happened to be a passenger and coincidentaly a Physician on the cruise connected with the National Review group. The woman attendant from the bus immediately started to shove a clipboard with a release on it at my room mate. I told her not to sign anything. She was taken by wheelchair to the ships hospital(?) where we waited for ten minutes before a nurse was there to see her. The kindly Dr. waited with us until she was seen. The nurse was somewhat curt. She wrapped the arm and gave "Susie" some gauze for her mouth. She said the Dr was not available and if she needed to see him to call and come back later. Susie did call about 5 p.m. or so. She was finally retrieved in a wheelchair. She was unable to walk on her own. She and I; due to the fact that someone had to be with her to help her with all her normal doings, missed the remainder of the cruise and activities. This included our tour in Cabo. The Dr. took xrays of her wrist and elbow and thought them to be fractured. He then gave her Percocet and told her to stay in bed and keep them elevated. There was no charge for this medical attention. On returning home she found out that her tooth was so badly fractured that it would have to be removed. The cost for an implant was to have been $2500.00 She was not able to afford this amount. She had a tooth put on a bridge. I should have prefaced this with the fact that she didn't have any trip ins. She has been investigating some sort of legal retribution for the injuries and the missed work. I know, having cruised often that the charges would have been very costly had the ship not felt that there was some sort of responsibility for this incident. It was after all, a ship sponsored tour. I am not a litigiously minded person. I just thought I would ask advice from those of you who might steer her in the right direction. The attorney who handles her regular doings will not take this on. Does HAL have some responsibility? Is she out of luck as this occured in Mexico? This happened in November, the week before Thanksgiving. I am only presenting this as a courtesy for her. I thank you all in advance for any and all info.

Sincerely,

[WindyCity]

I don't know what her rights are, but what would she do if she tripped on the sidewalk in front of her house and the same thing happened?

[happy cruzer]

I think HAL has done all they are going too which is more than they were contractually obligated to.

 

If you had taken out the insurance, you might be getting more. I think there is a pretty good burden of documentation required though. You would need something like an accident report and all the receipts from each time she got attention.

 

I would think your best bet would be to contact the tour operator for a goodwill settlement using the fact that you might try to get HAL to drop them from the HAL tour list. But that would be a very long shot and I probably would not waste my time and money on it.

 

Won't her medical/dental insurance cover her in the US? When I had medical insurance, once I was in the US they would pay but make me sign that if I got a settlement I would turn it over to them.

 

Probably should mark this up to lesson learned, we've all learned thing the hard way too.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Sorry to hear about your friend's accident.

 

But HAL and no one is responsible for your friend tripping and falling. We have all tripped and/or fallen at one time or another in lour lives whether it be at home or on vacation and there was no one to sue.

 

Many years ago, I tripped on a curb in Toronto and fratured my wrist and knocked a crown off a tooth. My insurance pay for everything. There wasn't anyone I could sue for my trip.

[cusyl]

Sorry about her accident, but she should have purchased the travel insurance. Don't understand why people take this risk when the insurance is so reasonable.

[SDHALFAN]

I'm sorry but I have to agree with the other posters - I think that your friend is SOL. I honestly can't see how HAL or the tour operator is responsible for your friend tripping over an uneven curb.

 

I'm so sorry about her injuries which sound incredibly painful and hope that she is well on her way to recovery.

 

Valerie

[madelinerose]

My thought exactly.

 

I have no legal background and could be 100% incorrect, but this is how I see the situation:

 

Because your friend didn't fall due to any negligence on the cruiseline's fault (i.e, slippery floor onboard, etc.), how would/could HAL be held liable? If the same situation occured in Mazatlan stepping off a public bus, who would be liable? My answer would be no one. It was an unfortunate accident that could happen anywhere at any time, stepping off any bus in any country....ship sponsored tour or not. Your friend fell....the end.

 

Also, just the simple fact that her attorney said she/he wouldn't take the case speaks volumes to me. I would file a claim with my dental insurance company and call it a day. I have no idea if trip insurance would be the answer here, but I do know that I never travel without it.

 

Good luck. ;)

 

I don't know what her rights are, but what would she do if she tripped on the sidewalk in front of her house and the same thing happened?

[peaches from georgia]

I believe she would have to show 'negligence' on the part of HAL and/or the tour operator to have any kind of case at all. If the steps on the bus or on HAL's gangway had obviously been in disrepair and a pax fell because of it, that would be one thing. However, tripping on a curb getting off a bus is hardly due to HAL's negligence. HAL is not responsible for keeping the city of Mazatlan repairing their streets and it doesn't sound like the tour operator parked the bus in an obviously dangerous place. Some things just happen.

[jhannah]

I must also agree that no one has any liability in this instance. (Supported by the fact that your friend's attorney wouldn't take the case.) This was simply an unfortunate accident that could have happened anywhere.

 

I do hope she mends quickly. Give her our best wishes.

[Iamthesea]

I think that your friend is SOL.

What does SOL mean? :confused:

 

In most case, a tour operator will (and should) help passengers off the bus and warn them of any immediate obstacles in the way. Not that it makes any difference, but was this done?

 

The fall sounds like an accident and no one should be at fault. It could have happened anywhere and we should all be more aware of our surroundings.

 

Now, if your friend had tripped on a broken stair - leading out the bus, that would have been the fault of the tour operator for not properly maintaining the bus steps.

[above sea level cruiser]

What does SOL mean? :confused:

 

 

S--t out of luck:eek:

[nikkin]

Wow.... I am sooo sure this is NOT anyone's fault at all... geez such is life.. Everyone wants something for nothing.. it is just way out of hand!

[dakrewser]

Let this be a lesson to everyone about checking their medical coverage before leaving their hometown! Especially to go off to a foreign country. Accidents do happen, all the time, and you need to be able to get the medical attention you need as quickly as possible.

 

And, as someone else noted, if a lawyer refuses to take a case you can be sure there's nothing in it. Even when they do take it there's often nothing in it!

[hammybee]

I am casting my vote with the other posters. I do not see this as anything other than unfortunate luck on the part of the cruiser.

[Grumpy1]

Although I generally agree with the posters that have declared this an unfortunate accident for which there is no blame, there are a few matters to consider:

Did the bus park in such a way that stepping off of the bus caused her to step down in the street instead of onto the curb when parking a few inches closer to the curb would have eliminated the hazard?

 

Was there a safer spot to discharge the passengers that could have/should have been used?

 

Did the tour guide and/or driver position themselves in a position to help passengers off of the bus or were they positioned to maximize their opportunity to receive tips?

 

Did their activities cause crowding and jostling at the exit of the bus?

 

An affirmative answer to any of these questions could be considered negligence on the part of the tour operator and HAL, since HAL hired them.

 

One of the reasons that ship sponsored tours are more expensive than tours arranged on your own is the cost of the liability insurance that HAL either provides or requires the tour operator to provide.

 

Depending on the documentation (pictures of the tripping point, etc) that you have available, you might be able to request that HAL reimburse any medical costs that are not covered by insurance, including a dental implant. I doubt that they would do anything, though, unless a lawsuit were filed. Unless there will be long term consequences from the injuries, it would probably go nowhere. As others have said, insurance is your best option.

[niborHS]

I think she should consider herself lucky that she did not get charged from HAL for the hospital treatment. 10 years ago my husband was very severely injured when jet skiing in St. Martin. We were on an RCCL cruise at the time. We were charged over $500 for his overnight stay in the ship's hospital. He was medevac'd to NY by American Express. Because the ship's bill did not have the correct coding for the US insurance companies, our cruise insurance covered that. They also covered whatever was not covered by our medical insurance, like the fact that I called the orthopedist directly instead of calling our primary care physician first, therefore the hospital stay/surgery was not completely covered. They also reimbursed us for the day of the cruise that he was not on after he left. Even if your friend had dental insurance, I doubt it covers a $2500 implant. She might have been able to get that had she had cruise insurance. I guess this can serve as a lesson for all of us.

[MercedMike]

Although I generally agree with the posters that have declared this an unfortunate accident for which there is no blame, there are a few matters to consider:

Did the bus park in such a way that stepping off of the bus caused her to step down in the street instead of onto the curb when parking a few inches closer to the curb would have eliminated the hazard?

 

Was there a safer spot to discharge the passengers that could have/should have been used?

 

Did the tour guide and/or driver position themselves in a position to help passengers off of the bus or were they positioned to maximize their opportunity to receive tips?

 

Did their activities cause crowding and jostling at the exit of the bus?

 

An affirmative answer to any of these questions could be considered negligence on the part of the tour operator and HAL, since HAL hired them.

 

One of the reasons that ship sponsored tours are more expensive than tours arranged on your own is the cost of the liability insurance that HAL either provides or requires the tour operator to provide.

 

Depending on the documentation (pictures of the tripping point, etc) that you have available, you might be able to request that HAL reimburse any medical costs that are not covered by insurance, including a dental implant. I doubt that they would do anything, though, unless a lawsuit were filed. Unless there will be long term consequences from the injuries, it would probably go nowhere. As others have said, insurance is your best option.

 

Wow -- is that post from a fellow cruiser, or from an ambulance chasing lawyer??

 

This is exactly the kind of litigious thinking that lawyers have led Americans into. Fall on your face, and immediately think up ten reasons somebody else was responsible for your fall!!

 

Maybe the bus driver failed to check the weather report to see whether a gust of wind would blow her over? Or maybe there was a speck of dirt on her bus window so she couldn't see the curb before she stepped off? Or maybe the bus driver failed twenty years ago to stop somebody from planting the tree that broke the cement?

 

Hey -- the OP fell down! Nobody is responsible for her falling down. HAL went above and beyond anything it had to do to help her. Good for HAL. They deserve her thanks, not a lawsuit!

[niborHS]

I think she should consider herself lucky that she did not get charged from HAL for the hospital treatment. 10 years ago my husband was very severely injured when jet skiing in St. Martin. We were on an RCCL cruise at the time. We were charged over $500 for his overnight stay in the ship's hospital. He was medevac'd to NY by American Express. Because the ship's bill did not have the correct coding for the US insurance companies, our cruise insurance covered that. They also covered whatever was not covered by our medical insurance, like the fact that I called the orthopedist directly instead of calling our primary care physician first, therefore the hospital stay/surgery was not completely covered. They also reimbursed us for the day of the cruise that he was not on after he left. Even if your friend had dental insurance, I doubt it covers a $2500 implant. She might have been able to get that had she had cruise insurance. I guess this can serve as a lesson for all of us.

[newmexicoNita]

My cabin mate was injured badly when returning to the ship from a HAL sponsored tour in Mazatlan.We were on Oosterdam. She tripped and fell on an uneven curb as she left the bus. She put her tooth through her lip and fractured the tooth into four pieces(unbeknownst to her until a later date). She also injured her wrist and elbow. Her knee immediately swelled to a grapefruit size and turned black and blue as you looked at it.She had a huge blood blister on her big toe. She was attended to by a fellow passenger and I. He happened to be a passenger and coincidentaly a Physician on the cruise connected with the National Review group. The woman attendant from the bus immediately started to shove a clipboard with a release on it at my room mate. I told her not to sign anything. She was taken by wheelchair to the ships hospital(?) where we waited for ten minutes before a nurse was there to see her. The kindly Dr. waited with us until she was seen. The nurse was somewhat curt. She wrapped the arm and gave "Susie" some gauze for her mouth. She said the Dr was not available and if she needed to see him to call and come back later. Susie did call about 5 p.m. or so. She was finally retrieved in a wheelchair. She was unable to walk on her own. She and I; due to the fact that someone had to be with her to help her with all her normal doings, missed the remainder of the cruise and activities. This included our tour in Cabo. The Dr. took xrays of her wrist and elbow and thought them to be fractured. He then gave her Percocet and told her to stay in bed and keep them elevated. There was no charge for this medical attention. On returning home she found out that her tooth was so badly fractured that it would have to be removed. The cost for an implant was to have been $2500.00 She was not able to afford this amount. She had a tooth put on a bridge. I should have prefaced this with the fact that she didn't have any trip ins. She has been investigating some sort of legal retribution for the injuries and the missed work. I know, having cruised often that the charges would have been very costly had the ship not felt that there was some sort of responsibility for this incident. It was after all, a ship sponsored tour. I am not a litigiously minded person. I just thought I would ask advice from those of you who might steer her in the right direction. The attorney who handles her regular doings will not take this on. Does HAL have some responsibility? Is she out of luck as this occured in Mexico? This happened in November, the week before Thanksgiving. I am only presenting this as a courtesy for her. I thank you all in advance for any and all info.

Sincerely,

Haven't read all the responses, will later when I have more time: my question to you: no matter who sponsored the tour, why would they be held responsible? You said, yourself she tripped over the curb.. Now, I want to add, I hope everything heals and she is on her way back to her normal self soon. NMNita

[hammybee]

Grumpy,

Does not HAL (and all cruise lines, for that matter) go way out of their way to make clear that they are not responsible for the actions or inactions on the part of contracted shore excursions providers? Their role is that of agent in the transaction. Yeah, I know there is nothing that precludes anyone from suing anyone, but in this case, I think the cruise lines have liability sewn up. The disclaimers are posted everywhere and become a part of booking shore excursions, through the cruise line.

 

That the Tour Operator was johnny on the spot with a release, implies that they indeed have insurance or a bond. Assuming the cruiser has the contact information, maybe it could not hurt to file a claim, limited to true out of pocket medical costs, and cc HAL.

 

On the plus side, the cruiser's injuries are relatively insignificant in the big picture, although I am sure the cruiser does not see it from this perspective.

All I am saying, is that the fall could have been much worse than a lost tooth and could have happend anywhere.

[hammybee]

I am not aware of any insurance policy that covers tooth implants as a restorative measure, regardless of cause. A bridge is the common solution. In otherwords, I do not think Trip Insurance, had it been in effect for this cruiser, would have covered the best solution. Take this from someone who has a Mercedes ( occasionally my foot too) in their mouth :)

[newmexicoNita]

Although I generally agree with the posters that have declared this an unfortunate accident for which there is no blame, there are a few matters to consider:

Did the bus park in such a way that stepping off of the bus caused her to step down in the street instead of onto the curb when parking a few inches closer to the curb would have eliminated the hazard?

 

Was there a safer spot to discharge the passengers that could have/should have been used?

 

Did the tour guide and/or driver position themselves in a position to help passengers off of the bus or were they positioned to maximize their opportunity to receive tips?

 

Did their activities cause crowding and jostling at the exit of the bus?

 

An affirmative answer to any of these questions could be considered negligence on the part of the tour operator and HAL, since HAL hired them.

 

One of the reasons that ship sponsored tours are more expensive than tours arranged on your own is the cost of the liability insurance that HAL either provides or requires the tour operator to provide.

 

Depending on the documentation (pictures of the tripping point, etc) that you have available, you might be able to request that HAL reimburse any medical costs that are not covered by insurance, including a dental implant. I doubt that they would do anything, though, unless a lawsuit were filed. Unless there will be long term consequences from the injuries, it would probably go nowhere. As others have said, insurance is your best option.

Boy, are you a lawyer or what?

[Grumpy1]

Wow -- is that post from a fellow cruiser, or from an ambulance chasing lawyer??

 

This is exactly the kind of litigious thinking that lawyers have led Americans into. Fall on your face, and immediately think up ten reasons somebody else was responsible for your fall!!

 

Maybe the bus driver failed to check the weather report to see whether a gust of wind would blow her over? Or maybe there was a speck of dirt on her bus window so she couldn't see the curb before she stepped off? Or maybe the bus driver failed twenty years ago to stop somebody from planting the tree that broke the cement?

 

Hey -- the OP fell down! Nobody is responsible for her falling down. HAL went above and beyond anything it had to do to help her. Good for HAL. They deserve her thanks, not a lawsuit!

Mike, your extrapolations of the questions that I asked into your stupid questions is ludicrous! No, I am not a lawyer and I avoid them whenever possible. But not every fall is a blameless accident. There are times when some other party is negligent. Whether or not this one falls into that category, I don't know, but the fact that she was not charged for the medical treatment indicates to me that someone decided that there was a possibility that HAL or their operator was at least partially at fault. It could well be that HAL did more than they really needed to do, but it's also possible that there is more to the story. Neither you nor I know whether this was a blameless accident or not.

[Grumpy1]

Grumpy,

Does not HAL (and all cruise lines, for that matter) go way out of their way to make clear that they are not responsible for the actions or inactions on the part of contracted shore excursions providers? Their role is that of agent in the transaction. Yeah, I know there is nothing that precludes anyone from suing anyone, but in this case, I think the cruise lines have liability sewn up. The disclaimers are posted everywhere and become a part of booking shore excursions, through the cruise line.

The cruise line's lawyers can write anything they want into the contracts. Whether or not it would hold up in court is another matter. When you sign up for a "ship sponsored" tour, you are not using HAL just as a booking agent for XYZ tour company because that tour company's name doesn't appear anywhere on the tour ticket. That puts HAL in the position of being the provider of the tour, not just an agent.

[SmileHMB]

Ok, just my personal imput, not siding either way. No, a dental implant would not be covered under normal dental insurance. They feel a bridge will do the job and cost them a lot less. They should pay roughly 50% of that.

As far as an uneven curb?? Well, I know here in NJ, if you don't maintain your sidewalk (by the way the is owned by the town, but we must maintain) and someone trips over uneven conrete, they have the right to go after your homeowners insurance. Yes, this is true. So if the curb was not maintained properly and could cause her to trip, then wouldn't the city be liable? Maybe in the US, but not Mexico?? Any thoughts?

The lawyer may not of taken the case because it is just not in his area. Some do divorces or car accidents, they all specialize these days.