Injury getting back to port in Mazatlan

[hammybee]

The cruise line's lawyers can write anything they want into the contracts. Whether or not it would hold up in court is another matter. When you sign up for a "ship sponsored" tour, you are not using HAL just as a booking agent for XYZ tour company because that tour company's name doesn't appear anywhere on the tour ticket. That puts HAL in the position of being the provider of the tour, not just an agent.

 

Good point about the lack of identity of the tour operator, unlike an air carrier.

 

No wonder they voted you the King of your Homeowner's Association. They are a fortunate bunch to have you in their corner.

[Grumpy1]

As far as an uneven curb?? Well, I know here in NJ, if you don't maintain your sidewalk (by the way the is owned by the town, but we must maintain) and someone trips over uneven conrete, they have the right to go after your homeowners insurance. Yes, this is true. So if the curb was not maintained properly and could cause her to trip, then wouldn't the city be liable? Maybe in the US, but not Mexico?? Any thoughts?

You are absolutely right. Right or wrong, that's the way the courts have interpreted liability laws regarding maintenance of sidewalks in this country. It is different in other countries, though. Most other countries do have some presumption of personal responsibility. In the US the presumption seems to be that someone else is always responsible.

[Chivalrygirl]

I first travelled abroad at the age of 23, thats a lota years ago, but I have never travelled without INSURANCE. Maybe I was a mature kid, but for some common sense is non-existant, just to save a few bob or should I say dollars! Its just not worth the risk, the accident might have been a lot worse, so maybe your friend should count her lucky stars!

 

Reading some of the posts on here really goes some way to explaining why when we take out insurance to travel to North America it DOUBLES in price, is it because of the attitude of sue, sue, sue no matter what? That is the general consensus down here, perhaps someone else has another theory?

 

BTW if you chose to travel in my country you are covered by Accident Compensation, we pay all your costs if you have an accident here, I guess you can therefore buy insurance for NZ really cheap. However, there is no way you can sue anybody, no way.

 

Cheers

Val

[lysolqn]

I'm sorry your friend was hurt and I don't mean to be flippant - but look up the word "accident" in the dictionary and your friend's picture is probably there. Unfortunately, accidents do happen and oftentimes they're the result of bad luck, bad timing or just plain clumsiness and/or carelessness rather than someone else's negligence. I can't imagine how HAL or the tour operator could be held responsible for what you describe and for what it's worth, I think HAL's response was pretty decent. You say your friend didn't have travel insurance but how about health insurance or accident insurance that she can rely on for reimbursement of expenses?

[newmexicoNita]

I'm sorry your friend was hurt and I don't mean to be flippant - but look up the word "accident" in the dictionary and your friend's picture is probably there. Unfortunately, accidents do happen and oftentimes they're the result of bad luck, bad timing or just plain clumsiness and/or carelessness rather than someone else's negligence. I can't imagine how HAL or the tour operator could be held responsible for what you describe and for what it's worth, I think HAL's response was pretty decent. You say your friend didn't have travel insurance but how about health insurance or accident insurance that she can rely on for reimbursement of expenses?

Not to mention a tooth inplant? Wouldn't a bridge work? In my mind there is not one shread of evidence supporting it was anyone fault: just a simple accident. Grumpy mentions the tour person should have helped everyone off the bus, why? Of course if someone is having trouble, very elderly or physically challenged, that would be different, but it sounds like she simply tripped over the curb after she was off the bus. I will agree with one thing: juries do funny things, a law suit might get some compensation back for the injured, but it might also backfire. there are just too many sue happy people around these days. NMNita

[IKE]

Sorry to hear about the injuries to your friend but as far as I know HAL is not responsible in anyway. That is why, I always make sure I have insurance as Accidents happen every day.

[letsgonow]

Does anyone remember when the tour van filled with Celebrity passengers drove off a cliff in South America? It was an independent tour. I remember the headlines saying the cruise line was not responsible, as it wasn't one of their offered tours. Would they have been responsible if it was one of their excursions? Ah, the importance of travel insurance!

[Grumpy1]

I first travelled abroad at the age of 23, thats a lota years ago, but I have never travelled without INSURANCE. Maybe I was a mature kid, but for some common sense is non-existant, just to save a few bob or should I say dollars! Its just not worth the risk, the accident might have been a lot worse, so maybe your friend should count her lucky stars!

 

Reading some of the posts on here really goes some way to explaining why when we take out insurance to travel to North America it DOUBLES in price, is it because of the attitude of sue, sue, sue no matter what? That is the general consensus down here, perhaps someone else has another theory?

 

BTW if you chose to travel in my country you are covered by Accident Compensation, we pay all your costs if you have an accident here, I guess you can therefore buy insurance for NZ really cheap. However, there is no way you can sue anybody, no way.

 

Cheers

Val

You are correct, Val. There are far to many lawyers and the compensation is usually based on a percentage of the award. And since most lawsuits are paid by insurance companies rather than individuals, juries tend to be generous on the theory that the insurance companies have lots of money and that's what they are there for anyway. The cost of many of the products sold here is almost doubled because of the price of the liability insurance that is added in.

[Grumpy1]

Does anyone remember when the tour van filled with Celebrity passengers drove off a cliff in South America? It was an independent tour. I remember the headlines saying the cruise line was not responsible, as it wasn't one of their offered tours. Would they have been responsible if it was one of their excursions? Ah, the importance of travel insurance!

I'm sure there would have been huge lawsuits with large settlements if it had been a ship sponsored tour. Whether Celebrity should or should not be legally responsible never even comes into the equation. It's just the way it is. RCCL just handed over more than a million dollars to the family of George Smith and their lawyers just to get them to go away. No admission or finding of fault... just take the money and go away.

[kryos]

I don't know what her rights are, but what would she do if she tripped on the sidewalk in front of her house and the same thing happened?

She got hurt in Mexico? Good luck winning a suit for an accident taking place in a foreign country. As for HAL's responsibility, sounds like they did everything they could for her ... they were not at fault for her accident.

 

Unfortunately, I doubt she is gonna be able to do much about this. She'll just have to save her money until she can afford an implant, and until then use the bridge.

 

It's a shame this accident had to happen ... but sometimes that's how life goes.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

RCCL just handed over more than a million dollars to the family of George Smith and their lawyers just to get them to go away. No admission or finding of fault... just take the money and go away.

George Smith is a different case, though. He was killed on the ship. Theoretically, it could be asked where ship's security was when he was being tossed overboard? RCCL very well did have some responsibility for his death. So, I don't doubt they paid up. It was probably a real bargain when you consider what a court might have awarded.

 

This woman, though, was injured off the ship, and through no fault of HAL's. I say she hasn't a prayer ... especially since the accident took place in a foreign country.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

I am not aware of any insurance policy that covers tooth implants as a restorative measure, regardless of cause. A bridge is the common solution. In otherwords, I do not think Trip Insurance, had it been in effect for this cruiser, would have covered the best solution. Take this from someone who has a Mercedes ( occasionally my foot too) in their mouth :)

I think an implant is considered cosmetic and no insurance covers cosmetic work. Even if she had insurance, she'd probably be reimbursed for the cost of the bridge ... and would have to pay the difference on her own if she wanted an implant instead.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Grumpy1]

George Smith is a different case, though. He was killed on the ship. Theoretically, it could be asked where ship's security was when he was being tossed overboard? RCCL very well did have some responsibility for his death. So, I don't doubt they paid up. It was probably a real bargain when you consider what a court might have awarded.

 

This woman, though, was injured off the ship, and through no fault of HAL's. I say she hasn't a prayer ... especially since the accident took place in a foreign country.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

But since no charges were ever filed and the suit was never tried, you have to say that RCCL may have had some responsibility for his death. You are right about the "bargain" though. It's the American way. Sue for a billion... settle out of court for a million...

[SDHALFAN]

 

That the Tour Operator was johnny on the spot with a release, implies that they indeed have insurance or a bond. Assuming the cruiser has the contact information, maybe it could not hurt to file a claim, limited to true out of pocket medical costs, and cc HAL.

 

 

Hi Hammybee:

 

That's a very good point you picked up on that the rest of us missed.

 

Valerie:)

[Copper10-8]

Hey folks, just a heads up: Mexico is the land/mother of the uneven curb as well as the unfinished roof!:eek: Good luck getting them (or the local government, i.e. the City of Mazatlan) to claim any responsibility in this unfortunate incident. The passenger assumes the entire risk of utilizing a non-HAL service such as a foreign tour operator in effect, an independent contractor. The exact wording is in each cruise contract. The fact that HAL did not charge for the medical teatment rendered sure sounds like an act of good will on their part! Hope your friend is recovering

[SmileHMB]

Ok, being in the dental field I must explain a few things here. Who knows what a bridge is?? Sounds like not too many. I bridge is when you grind down the teeth on either side of the missing area. Then place connected crowns on the area, therefore there is no using the bridge until you can afford an implant. Once you place the bridge and destroy the other teeth it's done. Bridges usually are covered at 50%. Ok, implant only involves replacing the missing tooth without harming other teeth. Functions as a normal tooth, usually never covered in any form by insurance. Partial plate, she could of had a flipper made. Just a quick temporary replacement of a single tooth. This would come in and out of her mouth. It would look better than walking around without a tooth and would hold the place until she could afford the implant. I hope this helps. So if she has a bridge, she is stuck with it. I hope the dentist did a good job and she properly cares for it. Sorry, this is what I do for aliving.

[Copper10-8]

Bumping up the nice doctor and her teddy bear;)

[SmileHMB]

Thanks John! Wish I was the DR., just an RDH for 20 years!

[GeriatricNurse]

George Smith is a different case, though. He was killed on the ship. Theoretically, it could be asked where ship's security was when he was being tossed overboard? RCCL very well did have some responsibility for his death. So, I don't doubt they paid up. It was probably a real bargain when you consider what a court might have awarded.

 

This woman, though, was injured off the ship, and through no fault of HAL's. I say she hasn't a prayer ... especially since the accident took place in a foreign country.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

 

:( Rita, was it determined that George Smith was tossed overboard? Perhaps, after an evening/night of drinking, (his wife, apparantly was discovered passed out somewhere on the ship from ?drinking), he may have fallen over a railing on an outside deck! Was there not blood discovered on top of one of the tenders?

[hammybee]

Ok, being in the dental field I must explain a few things here. Who knows what a bridge is??

 

I do. I do. I do. :)

 

As I said, I have a Mercedes ( or a cabin on a World Voyage, in keeping with the nature of cruising) in my mouth. A bridge is not the best course of action in situations like that described by the OP. It is however, the only one addressed by insurance companies and is less costly than an implant and the temporary stent that is necessary until a permanent artificial tooth can be attached. This can, in some instances, be a year or more depending upon the circumstances.

 

As you implied, a bridge will cause excessive wear on the teeth that adjoin the one MIA. As implant technology evolves, it will become more affordable and perhaps eventually covered by some insurance policies.

[hammybee]

George Smith is a different case, though. He was killed on the ship. Theoretically, it could be asked where ship's security was when he was being tossed overboard? RCCL very well did have some responsibility for his death. So, I don't doubt they paid up. It was probably a real bargain when you consider what a court might have awarded.

 

Blue skies ...--rita

 

No one knows if George Smith died while onboard, or went overboard.

No one knows if George Smith was killed, killed himself or had an accident.

I do not know how RCCL, or any cruise line, could be responsible for a passenger going overboard, unless an employee did it.

 

There is more than enough funny business with this one that it will, one day, make a fine made for TV movie. George reportedly had not been sleeping in his cabin on his honeymoon. Mrs. Smith was found drunk and sleeping in a hallway, on the floor. 4 hours or so later, Mrs. Smith was having a massage and claims to not have noticed that her husband had not slept in their cabin. They were observed drunks and had disturbed those in nearby cabins. None of this is typical honeymoon behavior.

 

I think RCCL took the high road and made a payment to avoid this going to trial and further damaging the brand and the industry. As I understand it, George's family is not satisfied and will challenge the payment. And life goes on.

 

Sorry for going off track.

[Pam in CA]

I agree with the others that it sounds like an unfortunate accident. As John says, Mexico (and many other countries) are known for uneven curbs, sidewalks, roads, etc. and I've often seen alerts about "walking on uneven ground."

 

This does point out the importance of getting insurance -- you never, ever know when "stuff" will happen; it can happen in a second. Several years ago, we were on a Princess cruise that stopped in Cozumel. We were at lunch at one of our favorite places, Pancho's Backyard, which has tables in tiers (a step or two down for each tier) towards a "stage" where there are performances. The floor is tiled. As we were enjoying lunch on one of the bottom tiers, a woman appeared at the top with camera in hand. She started taking pictures and walking towards the performers, looking through the viewfinder and not realizing that there were steps, she stepped off into space and literally took a "face plant" on the hard tile near us. She was very dazed and a very large bruise immediately formed on her forehead with a lot of swelling. She was on a HAL tour with her husband, who wasn't with her at the moment, that had dropped people off to do shopping. The friends with her called her husband who got the tour guide and they came and picked her up. She said she was OK but she sure didn't look it. I have no idea how that was or could have been resolved. IMHO, it was an unfortunate accident.

[Pam in CA]

No one knows if George Smith died while onboard, or went overboard.

No one knows if George Smith was killed, killed himself or had an accident.

I do not know how RCCL, or any cruise line, could be responsible for a passenger going overboard, unless an employee did it.

 

There is more than enough funny business with this one that it will, one day, make a fine made for TV movie. George reportedly had not been sleeping in his cabin on his honeymoon. Mrs. Smith was found drunk and sleeping in a hallway, on the floor. 4 hours or so later, Mrs. Smith was having a massage and claims to not have noticed that her husband had not slept in their cabin. They were observed drunks and had disturbed those in nearby cabins. None of this is typical honeymoon behavior.

 

I think RCCL took the high road and made a payment to avoid this going to trial and further damaging the brand and the industry. As I understand it, George's family is not satisfied and will challenge the payment. And life goes on.

 

Sorry for going off track.

It definitely wasn't typical honeymoon behavior -- they hadn't slept together several nights by her own admission. They also had several very visible and public fights, including her kicking him in the b***s. How many loving, brand new brides do that? I don't think we'll ever know what happened. And I agree that RCCL took the high road although IMHO, I don't see where they were responsible or were covering something up.

[Copper10-8]

And I agree that RCCL took the high road although IMHO, I don't see where they were responsible or were covering something up.

 

Aha, that's called "deep pockets" - attorneys specializing in those type of law suits go after large corporations, organizations, cities, you name it, as long as they have money. Some of those entities will fight back, some won't. Some (RCI maybe) have their attorneys look at the case and figure out it'll be cheaper for them to pay out then to go to trial and run the risk of losing the case altogether and paying out twice/triple as much. Can be very frustating because settling out of court and paying out frequently gives the "impression" that the corporation, organization, city, etc. assumes responsibility for whatever happened.

[smeyer418]

I am not aware of any insurance policy that covers tooth implants as a restorative measure, regardless of cause. A bridge is the common solution. In otherwords, I do not think Trip Insurance, had it been in effect for this cruiser, would have covered the best solution. Take this from someone who has a Mercedes ( occasionally my foot too) in their mouth :)

 

My dental insurance covers implants. If the dentist recommended an implant as the restoration of choice it would be covered BUT most cruise insurance limits dental coverage to $500 or $1000.00. Also if her own attorney said no go and didn't even make a referal you can be sure this case has no merit(in the legal sense). I am sure as a matter of public policy HAl is not responsible for the state of sidewalks on property it doesn't own or control in a foreign country no less....I hope you feel better but it is best to move on.