Should HAL disclose when it is partially chartering a ship

[hammybee]

An experience like this would put an end to our cruising.

 

I think we should know this upfront. If any areas of the ship are going to be "closed" for special groups, public areas, then I want to know.

 

These companies are going to push the envelope as long as they can. They will stop when they see they are losing a specific area of revenue...the individual cruiser. It does seem that HAL is leaning toward catering the group and chater end of things. I am sure there are people who do not care about areas being closed, but I do. And to show my unhappiness about this...I can just take my money elsewhere.

 

Twinkletoes, If I recall correctly you enjoyed your last HAL cruise but now reading of the possibility that your cruise could be chartered, contain groups and some venues might be closed to you, has you rethinking your future travel plans. And of course the more you cruise the more likely you are going to run into one of these situations. And maybe cruising might not the best choice of vacation for you, given the uncertainties associated with it . That's OK too. It your money and you can spend it as you see fit.

[ocngypz]

Does anyone have an answer to the above question? Thanks.

 

 

Yeah.. the Sarbane-Oxley law nothing to do with it. It has to do with financial fraud... call it cooking the books, if you will. Think Enron, WorldCom.

 

I open lots of groups on all different lines. Some are small affinity groups (families), some are larger.... some are for promotional purposes.. called non-affinity. Some are incentive groups... some are Meetings At Sea/Continuing Education. Each line has what they call Large Group contracts. Depending upon the line, it can be over 50 cabins, over 100 or over 200. Legal contracts? I'd hardly call them that. What you get is a couple of pieces of papers..... here are your categories, rates, # of cabins, deposit due dates, recall dates and final payments dates. It's all pretty cut and dry.

 

Full ship charter contracts on the other hand are a horse of a completely different color.

 

Want to avoid a huge group. Book Prisendam.

[Nancyquilts]

Oh, my. A group taking over the Crows Nest bar on Prinsendam would make the cruise impossible for everyone else. That's the best viewing spot on the ship - as I recall, every other location has no windows for viewing the sea or turns away from the view. Nancy

[serendipity1499]

Yeah.. the Sarbane-Oxley law nothing to do with it. It has to do with financial fraud... call it cooking the books, if you will. Think Enron, WorldCom.

 

I open lots of groups on all different lines. Some are small affinity groups (families), some are larger.... some are for promotional purposes.. called non-affinity. Some are incentive groups... some are Meetings At Sea/Continuing Education. Each line has what they call Large Group contracts. Depending upon the line, it can be over 50 cabins, over 100 or over 200. Legal contracts? I'd hardly call them that. What you get is a couple of pieces of papers..... here are your categories, rates, # of cabins, deposit due dates, recall dates and final payments dates. It's all pretty cut and dry.

 

Full ship charter contracts on the other hand are a horse of a completely different color.

 

Want to avoid a huge group. Book Prisendam.

 

See that you are a Travel Agent & wonder if you would answer a couple of questions...

 

Does the the Sarbane-Oxley law have any restrictions about Cruise Lines not being permitted to release info on their group business?

 

Do any of the Cruise Lines sell "Partial Charters with Contracts" or must they be only Full Charters?

 

We've found that most cruises of more than 14 days, do not have large groups on board..Is that still true?

 

Betty

 

P.S. The "Prinsendam" is our favorite ship, so far..:)

[hammybee]

I open lots of groups on all different lines.

 

Full ship charter contracts on the other hand are a horse of a completely different color.

 

Well you certainly seem to have more insight into the process than the average bear. Where exactly do the perks come from? The group wants to dine together during a particuar seating, and/or needs X meeting rooms or requires exclusive use of a venue.

[ChatKat in Ca.]

We'd booked a Cruise in the Med on Princess when 9/11 hit and we were in cancellation period so we got a refund and decided to book a Carribbean jaunt forr 12 days on HAL. I don't remember which ship it was.

 

We picked a stateroom and we wanted late seating, as is usual for us. We couldn't get it booked and asked our TA to find out about how to change early to late. We were told that the seating was full and would not be available because there was "a religious group" on board and they had the full seating. We wanted to know more but we were refused any information. We were told that the group had their own entertainment and so there would only be one show time for passengers - not one for early and another for late. We wanted to know how we would be impacted but no one has any answers for us when we asked.

 

We cancelled and ended up on the inaugural sailing to Alaska on Radisson Seven Seas Mariner (now Regent) and it was a great sailing we will never forget.

 

We've since been part of some group cruises arranged by our TA - as many as 100 on a sailing of 700 passengers on Regent. We went out of the way not to be obnoxious and pull others into our fun.

[Sea King]

what do you think

 

do you think Seattle read this thread?

 

do you think Seattle cares what the vast majority have said?

 

do you think they'll be changes?

[hammybee]

what do you think

 

do you think Seattle read this thread?

 

do you think Seattle cares what the vast majority have said?

 

do you think they'll be changes?

 

 

I think Seattle cares very much what the majority thinks. I also think we may not fully appreciate who the majority is. As I write this, there have been 936 views of this thread- not even enough to fill a VISTA class ship, on a single sailing. One large group booking trumps this, in an instant.

 

I am thinking there are tens of thousands of cabins to fill every week, on a lot of mass- marketed cruise lines and it takes groups to do so.

 

I am not defending HAL or any mass-marketed cruise line. I want to know before final payment dates, the what's what onboard the cruise I plan to sail, so that I could make an educated decision, if I wanted to pursue it or not. But I am thinking this is neither feasible or practical for any cruise line to do so. And what's the alternative?

 

If I want to sail a 7 day cruise from a U.S. port, I do so knowing there will be groups on board. If I want to sail a 10-12 day cruise in Europe, I do so knowing there will be groups on board. It is what it is and it's the nature of the mass-marketed cruise line beast.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

I think Seattle cares very much what the majority thinks. I also think we may not fully appreciate who the majority is. As I write this, there have been 936 views of this thread- not even enough to fill a VISTA class ship, on a single sailing. One large group booking trumps this, in an instant.

 

......

 

Yes, and at least 10 of those views have been mine alone!:eek: So 936 views doesn't indicate 936 separate viewers.

 

Karin

[gooselace]

Hammy....

 

Kindly print your post in such a way that it does not appear to be quoting me.

Your 'quote' is of something Gooselace (or someone else) wrote.......not me.

 

Thank you.

 

I do not feel as though notice in the Daily Program that guests on the ship not a part of the large group will be unable to use CrowsNest the entire cruise to be of any worth at all.

 

It is too little, too late. There is nothing a guest can do at that point.

If notification is given, it has to be meaningful......that means before one arrives at the ship or boards it.

 

I also apologize for any confusion of our POVs. My point was somewhat misrepresented by using only the last line, deleting:

 

Shouldn't HAL, at the very least, alert passengers at some point prior to the sailing date that certain areas or amenities "may" or "will" not be available to them on certain days or for the entire cruise, whatever is the case?

I think that's a reasonable expectation. If one were making reservations at a favorite restaurant, wouldn't one expect to be told if "the bar will be closed to the public that evening" or "our usual valet parking will not be available."

 

WHy should a cruiseline do any less for passengers who have made a reservation by booking?

[Sea King]

If one were making reservations at a favorite restaurant, wouldn't one expect to be told if "the bar will be closed to the public that evening" or "our usual valet parking will not be available."

 

WHy should a cruiseline do any less for passengers who have made a reservation by booking?

 

doesn't get any "simpler" than that, does it?

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I think that's a reasonable expectation. If one were making reservations at a favorite restaurant, wouldn't one expect to be told if "the bar will be closed to the public that evening" or "our usual valet parking will not be available."

 

WHy should a cruiseline do any less for passengers who have made a reservation by booking?

 

 

I am not defending either side at this point but..... if you were to make a reservation at a restaurant and they closed a bar for a function or closed the valet after you made the reservation, then I doubt seriously they would call you back to let you know this. Same is true with the ships, we have all booked these cruises months in advance many times the details of what a specific goup is going to do or reserve is not done till the last minute or possibly only Seattle knows they want to reserve a certain section and the ship does not know till a day or two before the sailing. HAL is certainly not going to call 900 plus passengers/cabins (Vista Class) to tell each one that there is a group on board and they cannot use a particular venue. I just think that the logistics of what we are demanding for the number of passengers that sail on HAL each weeks is a bit hard to comply with. Again if we want HAL to do all this they would need to have many employees handling this to contact every passenger. Then there are the salaries involved to do this. Again costing more money that I certainly do not wanted added on to the cost of my cruise.

Come to think of it I guess I am taking a stand on this issue. While I certainly would not want the Crow's Nest closed for my entire cruise and think it is sad that it happens. I also can see that those on the ship do not always have control of this issue. If we want Seattle to handle this issue by not doing this then we need to all plan to be paying a LOT more for our upcoming cruises.

[hammybee]

If one were making reservations at a favorite restaurant, wouldn't one expect to be told if "the bar will be closed to the public that evening" or "our usual valet parking will not be available." [/color]

 

WHy should a cruiseline do any less for passengers who have made a reservation by booking?

 

This too happens all the time. The bar area, or the lovely outside garden, associated with a restaurant, becomes dedicated to a special interest group. The restaurant may know this when you make your reservation or it may have occured after the fact. The restaurant is most likely not going to tell you this at the time of your booking and it's unlikely they are going to call you after the fact, and leave a "oh by the way" message.

 

That if it were your restuarant or mine and we might handle the situation differently, does not mean the next guy is going to do so. I am not defending the practice but I do know that this stuff happens all the time.

[sail7seas]

As someone who has been forced to leave aft pool on a bright, sunny sea day and was denied use CrowsNest for 8 out of 10 nights of our cruise (among many other inconviences and lack of access)....... I hope no one else is in that position.

 

In theory, it is easy to say roll with it and no big deal. In reality, when you are happily seated on a lounge at the pool and totally enjoying yourself, to be told you must leave immediately because THE GROUP was having a private pool party..... I don't think you'd like it. We didn't.

 

There is no defending that is is okay to do this to paying guests. It is not okay. I fully expect it to continue and others will be denied use of their chaise lounge or their favorite lounge for drinks, but there is no way it is acceptable IMO

 

[LAFFNVEGAS]

There is no defending that is is okay to do this to paying guests. It is not okay. I fully expect it to continue and others will be denied use of their chaise lounge or their favorite lounge for drinks, but there is no way it is acceptable IMO

 

Sail, I am not saying it is exceptable and I would be mighty upset if it happened to us but in reality all this typing and complaining we are doing will not help. I just do not think there is much that can be done in many cases. Unless we want to charter out the ship to ourselves. HAL is going to continue to book groups as well as any other mass market cruise line. The sales department that sells these groups is going to continue to reserve areas for these groups for an additional fee and make promises to them. I am sure the crew and officers on the ship are not happy with this and it makes their job much harder but unfortunately these things are going to happen. Yes, we can complain but unless we want to pay a lot more then I feel it is going to continue to happen. No, it will not happen everytime we cruise but we have to know going into any cruise that it could happen. I am some what expecting the worst for our Noordam cruise, there are two large groups on this cruise that we are not a part of and I expect several areas to be closed off. Of course I am planning to report "Live" unless I find out last minute that I got lucky and end up with a aft cabin (cabin still unknown) I plan to bring my laptop.

I honestly do not think that the Ship wants this to happen but I think they are caught in the middle and they have to answer to Seattle.

[hammybee]

I honestly do not think that the Ship wants this to happen but I think they are caught in the middle and they have to answer to Seattle.

 

Resort hotels and cruise lines have a group sales departments. They are considered the corporate rainmakers because they are the one who bring in the business that fills the most hotel rooms and cabins. They are about as removed from life onboard as any can be.

 

Lisa, given your proxcimity to massive hotels, I cannot imagine what some of them do to bring in group business and/or support high rollers. This alone would probably make for a great book but to do so would violate the LV code:)

 

As Middle-aged Mom pointed out yesterday, we might be loosing sight that groups are pax just like the rest of us. That they came together under a special interest banner and perhaps were able to use their numbers to obtain a few perks means they will most likely have a very different view point.

 

Thus far, it appears that perhaps Park West @ Sea is the only entity with enough muscle to obtain the keys to the CrowsNest for the majoirity of the occasional cruise. I think it highly unlikely that HAL would do so in ALaska, given the cruise is all about the scenery. Time will tell. The summer sailing season has just begun.

[Charliesmom]

I have been reading this and other threads about groups using certain spaces ALL of the time. I have also read with interest about the poor souls who were tortured by musicians practicing in their staterooms and having the whole ship overrun with jazz musicians to the point where the sounds of jazz could not be escaped.

 

One expects peace on a cruise - that what it is all about. HAL used to offer peace and if they no longer do, then the public ought to know about it. The public also ought to know that the enticing public spaces may or may not be available, just as we are informed that there are many circumstances that affect whether or not we visit a specific port, even though it is on the itinerary.

 

One other situation has puzzled me: Sail7Seas has had a really bad experience. I know that she was an Ambassador when the Noordam came out. Obviously, HAL and Stein Kruse (sp?) think a lot of her. Have you been on the telephone to him to let him know how you feel? I would expect if anyone had any clout as an individual passenger, that you would.

 

I find that writing letters will elicit responses - in the case of cruise lines - far too late to assuage the hurt feelings of the passenger. However, a well-stated complaint to the Executive Department of an organization usually brings a satisfactory conclusion to the injured party.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Roberta

[sail7seas]

My negative experience with a group happened many years ago and has not recurred since.

 

We've been lucky......

 

It is not the norm and it doesn't happen all the time. It is a relatively rare experience. Out of our many cruises, we only experienced such a thing on one so the odds are highly in our favor of it not happening to many of us at all.

 

 

 

[sail7seas]

Lisa......

 

I'm hoping you will 'report live' from the very beautiful Noordam. Do you really mean that if you 'get lucky' (with an upgrade?) you won't be reporting live?

 

I always enjoy your (and most everyone's) "Live From Aboard" threads.

 

[twinkletoes4445]

Twinkletoes, If I recall correctly you enjoyed your last HAL cruise but now reading of the possibility that your cruise could be chartered, contain groups and some venues might be closed to you, has you rethinking your future travel plans. And of course the more you cruise the more likely you are going to run into one of these situations. And maybe cruising might not the best choice of vacation for you, given the uncertainties associated with it . That's OK too. It your money and you can spend it as you see fit.

 

This has us completely rethinking our future plans with HAL. This is not acceptable in our opinion.

 

So if this is what HAL is about...you're right, cruising isn't for us, especially with HAL.

 

There's no better way to make your point with a company than to take your money elsewhere, and let others know your concerns. Like I said, I've never heard of anything like this. We've done a lot of traveling, and never once encountered anything like this in the past.

 

HAL will continue to do this sort of thing as long as the public allows it to happen. I honestly can see HAL becoming a "group" or "charter" only cruise line. And if that's what they want...so be it. We just won't be a part of it.

 

HAL can do what they want...I just don't have to use their product. And I won't.

[twinkletoes4445]

 

Obviously the group, of any size, must at some point have made arrangements for its private use or special event. Shouldn't HAL, at the very least, alert passengers at some point prior to the sailing date that certain areas or amenities "may" or "will" not be available to them on certain days or for the entire cruise, whatever is the case?

If passengers knew in advance they would at least be able to make some alternate plans, or rearrange their personal schedule, even if it were too late to cancel the cruise. I was be very upset to arrive at the Crow's Nest or other venue to find it marked "Private" and then have to make my way to another lounge or back to my cabin. Perhaps I could have signed up for another activity or planned my internet use for that time.

Surely some advance notice isn't too much to ask of a cruiseline that still claims to care about individual passengers.

 

 

HAL will continue to do this as long as they can get away with it. HAL wants what's best for HAL...not the passengers. It's all about money.

 

If someone would have told me that I'd probably never step foot on another HAL cruise, I'd have told them they were nuts. But hubby read these threads, and said forget it. We'll find something else to do. It's not like there's not a lot of other vacation ideas, or cruise lines.

 

We were at a party today, and I discussed this with several people. Shocked would be the word that best described their reaction.

[sail7seas]

Twinkletoes.....

 

If you please.... :)

 

Today seems to be the day folks are crediting me with quotes I didn't say.

 

The only part of the quote you have indicated as mine that really is what I said is the first paragraph.... the part in bold. I don't know who wrote the rest of it but there is time for you to edit it out and not leave my name attached to a quote that isn't mine.

 

This is the second time today someone 'put words in my mouth'. :(

 

Thank you.

 

[sail7seas]

Also.......don't kid yourself. All the major cruise lines are doing the same thing. It isn't only HAL.

 

[twinkletoes4445]

I have been reading this and other threads about groups using certain spaces ALL of the time. I have also read with interest about the poor souls who were tortured by musicians practicing in their staterooms and having the whole ship overrun with jazz musicians to the point where the sounds of jazz could not be escaped.

 

One expects peace on a cruise - that what it is all about. HAL used to offer peace and if they no longer do, then the public ought to know about it. The public also ought to know that the enticing public spaces may or may not be available, just as we are informed that there are many circumstances that affect whether or not we visit a specific port, even though it is on the itinerary.

 

From what I have read, HAL is changing. It now sounds like they are willing to auction off prime areas on the ship to those willing to fork over the money. Too bad, so sad for those that aren't part of that group.

 

We had a wonderful time on our cruise, but we did have one issue that we contacted HAL about...so I think I am going to follow up with a letter directing HAL to these threads and tell them why we won't be booking a cruise with them in the future.

 

It's just not acceptable to me what they are doing. I also read the thread about the people practicing their instruments in their cabins. I can tell you that when we go on vacation, we want to relax. And it would have annoyed me to no end to have dropped almost $6,000 only to find out that we can't use certain public areas for most or all of the cruise, or that a large jazz group would be on our cruise and we'd have to listen to noise from instruments in the surrounding cabins.

 

No thank you.

[twinkletoes4445]

Twinkletoes.....

 

If you please.... :)

 

Today seems to be the day folks are crediting me with quotes I didn't say.

 

The only part of the quote you have indicated as mine that really is what I said is the first paragraph.... the part in bold. I don't know who wrote the rest of it but there is time for you to edit it out and not leave my name attached to a quote that isn't mine.

 

This is the second time today someone 'put words in my mouth'. :(

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

Whoops...I don't know how that happened.