Should HAL disclose when it is partially chartering a ship

[sail7seas]

Twinkletoes.......

 

Seeing as you are on line and there is still time to edit your previous post, would you kindly edit out the part of your quote that is not what I said. I don't wish for it to seem that I said things I did not say. Just hit edit and either credit the person who said it or delete it.

 

Thank you.

 

[sail7seas]

:) I guess we were posting at the same time.

[twinkletoes4445]

Also.......don't kid yourself. All the major cruise lines are doing the same thing. It isn't only HAL.

 

 

I am not kidding myself about anything. If all cruise lines do this, then we won't be taking a cruise. This just comes as a surprise, and I must admit, a disappointment. We did love our HAL cruise, but I'm not willing to take a risk on another one.

 

I do plan on checking out other boards and see what I can find out about this issue. I wonder if Crystal, Regent, or the others participate in this sort of thing? Maybe the answer is moving up a notch or two to get away from this. Whatever, what HAL is doing isn't acceptable to us.

 

And if all cruise lines do this...then our cruising days are over. It's not like it's the end of the world. In fact, we'd must prefer to buy a condo on an island and visit our place as often as we can.

 

There are a lot of options out there...and HAL pretty much has eliminated itself from our list.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Lisa......

 

I'm hoping you will 'report live' from the very beautiful Noordam. Do you really mean that if you 'get lucky' (with an upgrade?) you won't be reporting live?

 

I always enjoy your (and most everyone's) "Live From Aboard" threads.

 

 

Sail, ONLY if we get a corner aft suite because there is no WiFi reception back there and it is just too darn far to drag the lap top to where I can get the connect like the Neptune. But if I get a mid ship S Suite no problem the lap top is coming with:D

[twinkletoes4445]

:) I guess we were posting at the same time.

 

We must have been. :)

 

Sorry about that. Thanks for pointing it out quickly so I could make the change.

[sail7seas]

Good, Lisa........ :)

 

Hope you get your upgrade. ;)

 

But, also hope you post for us from that gorgeous ship.

 

Your 'goooooonnna' looooooooove her!!! She's a beauty!! With an amazing CREW! :)

 

[sail7seas]

We must have been. :)

 

Sorry about that. Thanks for pointing it out quickly so I could make the change.

 

Thanks for making the correction. :)

[sail7seas]

I am not kidding myself about anything. If all cruise lines do this, then we won't be taking a cruise. This just comes as a surprise, and I must admit, a disappointment. We did love our HAL cruise, but I'm not willing to take a risk on another one.

 

I do plan on checking out other boards and see what I can find out about this issue. I wonder if Crystal, Regent, or the others participate in this sort of thing? Maybe the answer is moving up a notch or two to get away from this. Whatever, what HAL is doing isn't acceptable to us.

 

 

Someone posted today in one of these threads about a like situation occuring on a Crystal ship.

 

I didn't go to their Board to check it out but I seem to recall he/she said they were discussing it there.

[twinkletoes4445]

Someone posted today in one of these threads about a like situation occuring on a Crystal ship.

 

I didn't go to their Board to check it out but I seem to recall he/she said they were discussing it there.

 

Hmmmm...thanks for the information.

 

Our kids really don't like to cruise...which is why we are thinking about buying a condo. That just may be the route we go. It's not like we cruise all the time. There's a lot of different options out there when it comes to spending your vacation $$$.

 

I'll mosey over to the Crystal board and see what I can find. :)

[Old As Dirt Mom]

I am not kidding myself about anything. If all cruise lines do this, then we won't be taking a cruise.

 

I do plan on checking out other boards and see what I can find out about this issue. I wonder if Crystal, Regent, or the others participate in this sort of thing? Maybe the answer is moving up a notch or two to get away from this sort of thing. Whatever, what HAL is doing isn't acceptable to us.

 

And if all cruise lines do this...then our cruising days are over. It's not like it's the end of the world. In fact, we'd must prefer to buy a condo on an island and visit our place as often as we can.

 

There are a lot of options out there...and HAL pretty much has eliminated itself from our list.

 

 

There's a thread over on the Crystal board dealing with this same issue. The thread is called "Shame on Crystal" .

 

Twinkletoes, you had a lovely cruise on the Zuiderdam. You came here and raved enthusiastically about your turquoise cabana, your deluxe verandah suite, the service you received in the Neptune Lounge, etc. etc. That was your real life experience, and you had a marvelous time.

 

I'm not minimalizing the issue with groups and the space allocated to them, but you have to realize by now that this is cyberspace, a chat board known as Cruise Critic, where everybody comes to vent their anxiety, their displeasure, their frustration, and their fear. So much here gets blown way out of proportion.

 

Tell me truthfully: How much of the negative stuff you read here on the boards has any bearing on what you experienced in reality on your HAL cruise in February?

 

I have to wonder what kind of idealization do people have about a cruise ship? It's not paradise, it's only a ship designed by humans solely so that other humans can experience leisure; it's not some altruistic enterprise, it's a business. It's a working environment for the hundreds of crew, officers, and staff who live there.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

delete, duplicate post, sorry.

[twinkletoes4445]

 

Tell me truthfully: How much of the negative stuff you read here on the boards has any bearing on what you experienced in reality on your HAL cruise in February?

 

We had a wonderful cruise...no doubt about it. In fact, I have been looking around for the next cruise...until now.

 

We are the type of people that enjoy our vacation time, and it takes a lot to make us unhappy. I take the negative posts with a grain of salt. So many things are subjective.

 

However...

 

I find the fact that HAL is auctioning off public areas of the ship to the highest bidder to be wrong. One of the things we looked forward to was spending time in the Crow's Nest...and we did go there many times. I would have been furious if that area would have been closed off the entire time for a special group.

 

The other area that I find concerning is the fact that HAL has no problem dumping you from a cruise that turns into a charter. I do understand that this happens many months out, and we are pretty flexible, so we could make the change, but I have a problem with how HAL handles this.

 

What bothers me about this is what I've read about the notification and treatment of those that have been "booted." I've mentioned shonuf in many of my posts and her issues with this happening with her cruise. And there are others.

 

And then there was the "jazz" cruise that was a "ship gone wild" episode. If I had to listen to someone praciticing a musical instrument in the next cabin, I would have been very, very unhappy.

 

I find these issues to be unacceptable...

 

So for us, yes, these particular things have a direct impact on us scheduling another cruise.

 

I can always find a quiet spot on a ship...I can always find food that I like (unfortunately...lol), and we usually make the best of any situation.

 

But again, HAL's offering of the Crow's Nest, a public space, 24/7, to a group that paid for this...doesn't fly with me.

 

Seriously...what if this group wanted to reserve the buffet for a specific time? Or the theater? Or the pool? All public spaces should be available to everyone. On our cruise, we did see a couple of areas closed off for special parties...and these were for a short period of time...which is fine. But I can't imagine being denied access to the Crow's Lounge for the entire cruise.

 

I understand hurricanes and ship malfuncations happen...and we would deal with that.

 

It's not acceptable for HAL to be doing what they are doing, IMO. They can do what they want, but I just don't have to participate.

 

And you have no idea how sick this make me. We LOVED HAL. But there's no way we'd deal with this. Some here may be fine with this. We just aren't. There are just too many other options out there for us.

[kryos]

I am not defending either side at this point but..... if you were to make a reservation at a restaurant and they closed a bar for a function or closed the valet after you made the reservation, then I doubt seriously they would call you back to let you know this.

Big difference with the restaurant, though. If you walked in and found the bar area closed, you would always have the option of saying "nuts on this" and finding another restaurant to dine at. Can't do that on a ship when you don't find out a venue is closed to the public until after you've sailed ... or after you've gotten onboard. After all, you're not likely to insist on getting off when you know that chances are you will lose all of the money you paid for the cruise. You'll just live with it ... and try not to let the lack of that favorite venue ruin your good time.

 

This, to me, is very, very unfair.

 

There's nothing wrong with closing a venue for a private function once or twice during the course of a sailing. Sure, it's inconvenient, but it really doesn't impact your cruise experience that much. You could always go somewhere else for that short period of time. But to come onboard and only then find out that your favorite venue, such as the Crow's Nest, is gonna be unavailable to the general passenger population for the ENTIRE cruise is just not playing fair ... not in my opinion.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Someone posted today in one of these threads about a like situation occuring on a Crystal ship.

 

I didn't go to their Board to check it out but I seem to recall he/she said they were discussing it there.

It's happened on Regent too ... on their Tahiti ship, the Paul Gaugin. I recall reading the stories about it on these boards. An incentive group from a restaurant chain were onboard the sailing and they comprised something like two-thirds of the passenger capacity of the ship. They closed down venues for their private parties, took over one of the restaurants for some of their private programming during dinner, thus forcing most of the other passengers to eat at the buffet, and commendeered tender service on the private motu picnic day so that all their group members could get over there first in order to have some group events. Everyone else just had to wait until the group was served first.

 

All cruise lines compete for group business ... cause it's really lucrative. When a large group "shops" around for a sailing, they definitely have some serious negotiating power. The cruise lines will practically kiss their butt to get their business. The bigger the group, the more concessions the cruise line will offer. That's why often the group will get the use of these public venues for their private functions and the rest of the passengers onboard will be stuck making do with what's left.

 

That's why I often say that I would much rather get bumped off my sailing six months out than be welcomed onboard with a large group that will take over my sailing. That's why I think it should be a matter of fair disclosure that the cruise lines should be made to inform passengers anytime their sailing will include a large group, so that they may have the opportunity to switch to another cruise.

 

Just my humble opinion.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Nancyquilts]

According to the Crystal board, they are having the same trouble with bridge groups taking over whole public rooms.

[gillianrose]

...I would communicate to all non-group pax, upon boarding, significant and cumluative accommodations that were being made and use OBC to balance the potential inconvenice..

 

Upon BOARDING? That is simply TOO LATE.

[magical1]

I posted a letter Lies and/or dam lies and have been waiting for a reply from HAL. I have received a reply that is nothing more than weasel words and a suggestion that I should have resolved my issues before embarking. I found out about the issues, Crow's Nest booked every night, dining times bumped and musical instruments being played in staterooms after I got on board. I asked, twice, about large groups being on the ship and was told no twice by HAL. They have offered a small OBC as compensation. I will vote with my dollars and will not be returning to HAL again and will be using all my influence with family and friends to book elsewhere if they decide to cruise. In my opinion HAl does not give a "dam" about returning passengers and are only concerned about the almighty dollar. If there is a way to give up my Mariner status other than never using it again, I would like to know about it. Thanks for your time and have a great life "hopefully without the experiences I had on the Ryndam"

[twinkletoes4445]

I will vote with my dollars and will not be returning to HAL again and will be using all my influence with family and friends to book elsewhere if they decide to cruise. In my opinion HAl does not give a "dam" about returning passengers and are only concerned about the almighty dollar.

 

Taking your $$$ and not returning is a message that they will understand.

 

If they care no more this, then they can count me out as a future cruiser. The only thing that will make them change is if they see a decrease in revenue.

[luckiestlady21]

Ok here I go making myself the least liked new girl on here. I work for Holland right now. Being truthful I understand everyones desire to be aware of the large groups on board. Although I will mention that the reservations staff in the Seattle corporate office is not always made aware of the groups, we honestly would mention it if we were informed of this. I know that is a bad excuse and I wont make an excuse for not informing people. I love my job and love making people happy which is why I hopped on here to get some real perspective from people who have sailed.

[luckiestlady21]

is it dumb or is it being less than honest and open?

 

quite frankly, that's the point ..

 

isn't it time the home office "comes clean" so we know whether to book or pass a particular cruise rather than finding out the "surprise" after boarding

 

You can blame holland corporate for what it does but please dont place fault on honest hard working people who take reservations in the seattle office, they are constantly misinformed by management and have extremely limited access to things like group contracts so they are unable to see if there are large groups on your sailing. They are there to help you as best as they are able to and really do want you to have a great cruise.

[ChatKat in Ca.]

I was on the cruise just prior to the Regent/Radisson Group cruise in May 2005 and our good friends stayed on the following week when the group cruise referred to above was booked.

 

During that time, Regent and Grand Circle - the ships owners - were jointly managing the ship. I have been on more than one Regent ship during a group sailing - they are quite careful with not disrupting the regular passengers. That cruise was unusual for them since the partnership for managing the Paul Gauguin was new.

 

As for HAL, well, I was affected by this situation - which caused me to sail Regent, so...we shall see next week if HAL has corrected the situation.

[Sea King]

You can blame holland corporate for what it does but please dont place fault on honest hard working people who take reservations in the seattle office, they are constantly misinformed by management and have extremely limited access to things like group contracts so they are unable to see if there are large groups on your sailing. They are there to help you as best as they are able to and really do want you to have a great cruise.

 

to set the record straight, for what's it worth: I never once referenced any reservations person or any individual; I was referring to HAL corporate, or as everyone calls it "Seattle"

 

the problems of partially chartering a ship or closing down public areas for private functions (other than a normal group party) is something Seattle (corporate HAL) should and quite frankly must deal with and correct

 

maybe, hopefully, someone in Seattle (corporate HAL) is reading this and the other related threads and will realize the comments on CC have been, for the most part, direct, open and honest

 

all everyone here wants is for Seattle to be no less direct, open an honest with us

[gillianrose]

all everyone here wants is for Seattle to be no less direct, open an honest with us

 

Uh, maybe that's enough for some folks. It's not for me.

 

I am sick and tired of Googling the Internet to see what groups are booked on HAL and Crystal, to name the two that seem to have the most groups onboard (of lines that are of interest to me).

 

I want a classic cruise experience, one that is populated by people who travel as individuals, couples, or extremely small groups. I don't want to lose the use of venues such as the Crow's Nest, Theatres, etc. so a group can take it over for their own purposes.

 

I'd rather not cruise at all than share a ship with a large affinity group.

[newmexicoNita]

If specifically asked by a savy cruiser or TA, I believe they should, but it would be dumb of them to offer the info. unless asked!

I agree, of course if they are asked that is one thing, but otherwise why would they? NMnita

[Cruisin Kay D]

I have been concerned & curious if there are any groups scheduled to be on 10/24/07 Volendam Panama Canal because in early Feb when we booked we had to take a BALC GUARANTEE/NONE AVAIL -- seemed rather EARLY (9 mos) to be forced to take guarantee!! Yet when I googled I only found 3 groups -- small bridge group, small Bible Study group and AAA of Ohio (which could be large). In all our cruises we've NEVER before booked a "guarantee", so I am nervous about the Guarantee & concerned what we will sort of location we will end up getting....

 

Read that thread about the ParkWest group taking over the Crow's Nest the entire trip and sympathized with those people -- I would be upset too if no part of it were available to regular people, and particularly upset to go up there to have it locked and noone in there. However, I could understand a group wanting to use a space like that for a few hours each day & then space being available to general cruising public for other times each day.