Muster drill for the mobility challenged!

[Nitra]

I just cruised with a walking cast, I waited in the Centrum until the last minute then started out and they told me to just check in and come back and do the drill sitting down! There were several of us that did this. As soon as it was over we were able to be first to the elevators, thank goodness!

 

 

So if you have standing or walking issues, just let them know you need to sit down and they will let you do the drill sitting down..

[LexusIS350]

:eek: that was nice of them, but what do you do in a real emergency?:eek:

[cb at sea]

You would get in a lifeboat, pronto!!! (Sit, please--don't rock the boat!a0

[leoandhugh]

And the experience had by the OP should not be taken as policy or protocol for all ships; we, who use wheelchair and scooter have had a similar experience, but we have also been required to attend the muster, although they allowed us to leave once attendance had been taken so we could use the elevators before the returning crowds. The adherence to CG requirements varies from ship to ship, depending on how strictly the officers adhere.:) :)

[Brandis]

Last time on Brilliance, my friend had crutches and he could sit down on a lounge chair on the outside promenade during the drill.

 

Marc

[PEGLEG]

And this is what is not fair about ADA. Activist groups lobby for "equal rights" for the "challenged" members of society. That is fine, but now you have situations where the "challenged" people get treated differently than "un-challenged" people. The whole ADA thing is meant to "make it possible" for challenged people to have the same opportunity as "un-challenged" people. If "challenged" people take on the challenge of doing things with "unchallenged" people, then they should all be treated equal and all should be expected to participate in all required functions. After all, ADA only makes it possible for "challenged" people to participate, the "challenged" person MADE the choice to participate.

[Don Pedro]

And this is what is not fair about ADA. Activist groups lobby for "equal rights" for the "challenged" members of society. That is fine, but now you have situations where the "challenged" people get treated differently than "un-challenged" people. The whole ADA thing is meant to "make it possible" for challenged people to have the same opportunity as "un-challenged" people. If "challenged" people take on the challenge of doing things with "unchallenged" people, then they should all be treated equal and all should be expected to participate in all required functions. After all, ADA only makes it possible for "challenged" people to participate, the "challenged" person MADE the choice to participate.

 

Wow! it sure sounds as though you have a king-sized bur under your saddle. It seems to us that the intent of the ADA legislation was to provide access and opportunity for people with a disability, not to outlaw common courtesy and decency.

 

The ADA didn't remove challenges it only removed a few obstacles and made a few others a little easier to tolerate. Numerous daily challenges still exist for nearly everybody protected by the ADA.

 

We applaud the crew members who recognized the situation and lent a helping hand. That is what humanity is all about.

[Don Pedro]

We think the primary goal of the drill is to be sure that everybody knows how put on their life perserver and where to go in case of an emergency. Making minor concessions for people with a physical problem does not seem to diminish the purose of the drill.

 

There are many of us who are not wards of the ADA who have trouble standing for prolonged periods or trudging up and down five flights of stairs.

 

As older cruisers, we make a point to don our life jackets about 20 minutes before the drill and ride the elevator to our assigned muster deck. We find a comfortable place to sit and don't actual go to our muster station until the siren blows and the drill actually begins.

[Nitra]

We think the primary goal of the drill is to be sure that everybody knows how put on their life perserver and where to go in case of an emergency. Making minor concessions for people with a physical problem does not seem to diminish the purose of the drill.

 

There are many of us who are not wards of the ADA who have trouble standing for prolonged periods or trudging up and down five flights of stairs.

 

As older cruisers, we make a point to don our life jackets about 20 minutes before the drill and ride the elevator to our assigned muster deck. We find a comfortable place to sit and don't actual go to our muster station until the siren blows and the drill actually begins.

 

 

This is what I did, along with others, when they were into the final moments of starting, we got up to go out there, they took our attendance and said we could sit down inside, we were right inside the door by the station, with a crew member there with us. I had every intention of attending and did, but did not know I would be allowed to sit. Mom attended with my stepdad in a chair before and she had to roll him right on out there.

 

I really think that this had nothing to do with ADA, I am not disabled in any means, just a cast. The crew recognized I get around fine but to stand for long periods without support is not always easy. I did not ask for this treatment, but thought it was a nice touch and that I would share it.

 

I saw others, with canes, elderly, etc, sit with us in that area and wait for the drill to be over. We were not excused in any form, we just had to do it in a different way.

[packercruising]

For those with mobility problems that do not confine them to a wheelchair I recommend a cane with a folding seat. DW takes hers everywhere when we cruise because it isn't just the muster drill she needs it. She can walk ok but not stand for any period of time.:)

[Nitra]

I saw some great gadgets, they are like a walker but it has a seat and places to hold stuff! If I had to wear this thing more than a year, I would be all over one of those!

[reallyitsmema]

I have only cruised once before, Sovereign 2 years ago, but I don't remember them taking attendence at out muster drill. I know things were really disorganized because there was heavy rain, will have to make sure we check in at our muster in June. I am happy they let you sit Nitra, I have been freaking out for a week now worrying whether we actually are going to make our cruise since my husband injured his leg last Monday. Thank God we have travel insurance and hopefully enough time to heal.

[2ladies]

On the Voyager class ships our muster station is on the open deck and is usually in the heat of Miami. My very elderly mother cannot stand this heat for any length of time. I always take her down with our lifejackets twenty minutes before, don our lifejackets at the station, report to the person on duty with our cabin number and are then allowed to go back inside.

 

I believe this fulfills the requirement of the Coastguard - and hopefully, no-one can condemn the ships officers for showing some sense!! On Radiance class, we are usually inside and get there early to get a seat, so there is no problem.

[kel3120]

And this is what is not fair about ADA. Activist groups lobby for "equal rights" for the "challenged" members of society. That is fine, but now you have situations where the "challenged" people get treated differently than "un-challenged" people. The whole ADA thing is meant to "make it possible" for challenged people to have the same opportunity as "un-challenged" people. If "challenged" people take on the challenge of doing things with "unchallenged" people, then they should all be treated equal and all should be expected to participate in all required functions. After all, ADA only makes it possible for "challenged" people to participate, the "challenged" person MADE the choice to participate.

 

As a professional that works with people with disabilities everyday, I find your comments about the ADA to be quite disturbing. Those of us that lobby for equal rights of ALL individuals, regardless of disability, we support the fact that the ADA requires "reasonable accomodations" be made to persons that need them in order to participate. This muster drill is a perfect example of a reasonable accomodation. Those that have a disability are required to attend, yet they get accomodations such as a seat in a chair and first use of the elevator to assist them in attending. In no way is this unreasonable. The ADA is not in place to require business to spend tons of money trying to made everything accessible or to single out those that have disabilities. It is there to ensure that those with a disability are treated fairly and get the same rights to access businesses, jobs, recreation opportunities, etc. as the rest of us. I'm sure if you or a loved one had an accident that limited your mobility for the rest of your life, you would feel very differently about the ADA.

[Tuna]

As a professional that works with people with disabilities everyday, I find your comments about the ADA to be quite disturbing. Those of us that lobby for equal rights of ALL individuals, regardless of disability, we support the fact that the ADA requires "reasonable accomodations" be made to persons that need them in order to participate. This muster drill is a perfect example of a reasonable accomodation. Those that have a disability are required to attend, yet they get accomodations such as a seat in a chair and first use of the elevator to assist them in attending. In no way is this unreasonable. The ADA is not in place to require business to spend tons of money trying to made everything accessible or to single out those that have disabilities. It is there to ensure that those with a disability are treated fairly and get the same rights to access businesses, jobs, recreation opportunities, etc. as the rest of us. I'm sure if you or a loved one had an accident that limited your mobility for the rest of your life, you would feel very differently about the ADA.

 

DW works with people w/ disabilities everyday, and we have daily discussions on what's reasonable and what's not. Her stance would be the same as yours. Mine would be that someone in a wheelchair using the elevators first to go back to his/her cabin has nothing to do with their ability to attend the muster drill. Is it general courtesy? Sure. But then I would argue that a mother with a toddler should be extended the same courtesy. But, alas, those without visible disabilities are not offered the same accomodation. Reasonable is a matter of perspective. You supported this with you last sentence. I'm sure that my perspective of what is or isn't reasonable accomodation would change greatly if I was disabled. But I'm not.

[kel3120]

Wow, I am still very surprised at the negative reponses to the ADA. These laws were set up to protect people with disabilities from being discriminated against. The fact that these laws need to be put in place shows that our society is not very accepting of others that are different from them, and it is hard for me to understand why anyone would think these laws are bad.

 

I am a Recreation Therapist, so I know first hand how people with disabilities get treated in the community. I have taken many groups on different outings and trips, so I know that most people are not going to show courtesy towards those that are using a wheelchair, crutches, walker, etc. Think of it this way. A person using a wheelchair generally travels slower than those that are walking. They are amongst everyone during the muster drill, and then everyone is excused. People are not going to be patient and wait behind this person all the way to the elevator. They will run around them, cut them off, and make sure they are in line before them. It will take this person much longer to get back to their cabin than anyone else. I think that's a pretty good reason to consider this a reasonable accomodation. This would not apply to everyone, and I think if a person thought they would be able to manage without the accomodation, they would do so.

 

As far as your comparison to mothers with kids in a stroller, I do not think that this is the same thing. Someone walking and pushing a stroller will be able to keep up with the crowds. I also believe that the courtesy that you talk about would be given more to mothers with strollers over people in wheelchairs. This is why- our society accepts the fact that mothers need to use strollers and can relate to them. This is a "normal" person in many people's eyes. A parapelgic, for example, are considered "different" and many people cannot relate to that. They will most likely not be extended this courtesy because of that. Hopefully in the future this will be different, but that is how it is right now.

 

By the way, I did not come to this thread to give a speech about my thoughts on the ADA. I normally read these types of threads to see what is being done to assist those with disabilities as I try to be a strong advocate and know what things are being done. Instead of everyone thinking that it is unfair that a person using a wheelchair gets to use the elevator first, I hope that thinking will change to "how would I like to be treated if I were in their shoes?"

[Jeano222]

We just experienced this on Rhapsody of the seas 4/22. We took the elevator about 15 minutes before drill time, they put us to a back corner once we got to boat deck and then after drill they took us out first. Went smooth as could be.

[LexusIS350]

my original comment and concern still stands. what would happen i a real emergency?

look at the greek ship or alaska. emergencies do happen. what about the ladies mother who can't stay in the sun?(BTW you are wearing a naval officers uniform, so you should understand the neccessity) is she to placed on the life boat first or last? will the life boat not be lowered as we wait for those who must take the elevator?

how will the life boat accomodate those who have special medical needs. i know that this is now off topic, but my contention is that the muster drill is there to prep passangers of what to do in an emergency, it's not a head count... believe me rci and all the line know excactly who is on the ship.

[Brandis]

As long as they don't open up all emergency exits for the use of passengers it is not a complete preparation to an emergency. Shouldn't you learn the most direct path to your muster station?

 

On a different cruiseline it was done that way and we had to go through areas that usually are off limits to passengers. And it really was the fastest way to our muster station.

 

Marc

[2ladies]

my original comment and concern still stands. what would happen i a real emergency?

look at the greek ship or alaska. emergencies do happen. what about the ladies mother who can't stay in the sun?(BTW you are wearing a naval officers uniform, so you should understand the neccessity) is she to placed on the life boat first or last? will the life boat not be lowered as we wait for those who must take the elevator?

how will the life boat accomodate those who have special medical needs. i know that this is now off topic, but my contention is that the muster drill is there to prep passangers of what to do in an emergency, it's not a head count... believe me rci and all the line know excactly who is on the ship.

 

Obviously, the elderly and disabled will have to cope in an emergency just like everyone else - but hopefully, the staff and passengers will be helpful. However, there is no point in putting pressure on them just for a drill when they are conforming to the requirements anyway - they go to the muster station, they don the lifejackets and they listen to the broadcast. Same as everyone else!! As far as I am aware, the elevators will probably not be working in an emergency anyway. Does it help anyone to have elderly people passing out because of standing for half-an-hour in the hot sun, unless there is a real emergency?

 

I have to say that I find your attitude rather unsympathetic - please note that someday you will be one of the elderly brigade!! Hopefully, not one of the disabled.

[Don Pedro]

We agree with LexusIS350 that the drill doesn't prepare everyone for a real emergency. But we are baffled as to how the ship could provide this training without conducting drills where everyone actually got into the lifeboats and were lowered into the water.

 

If that became common practice probably the only cruisers would be bungee jumpers and other thrill seekers.

 

According to the Coast Guard website the goals of the drill are to provide training to the crew and inform passengers (1) how to recognize the ship's emergency signal. (2) where to find their life perservers. (3) how to properly don the life preserver and (4) where to go in case of an emergency.

 

We agree with 2ladies that the drill can accomplish these objectives without placing undue stress on anyone. The crew has training far beyond what we observe during the muster drill. In a real emergency a somewhat different scene can be anticipated.

 

Lending a helping hand to people whether they are able-bodied, children, disabled or elderly is only showing common courtesy and decency.

[kel3120]

Obviously, the elderly and disabled will have to cope in an emergency just like everyone else - but hopefully, the staff and passengers will be helpful. However, there is no point in putting pressure on them just for a drill when they are conforming to the requirements anyway - they go to the muster station, they don the lifejackets and they listen to the broadcast. Same as everyone else!! As far as I am aware, the elevators will probably not be working in an emergency anyway. Does it help anyone to have elderly people passing out because of standing for half-an-hour in the hot sun, unless there is a real emergency?

 

I have to say that I find your attitude rather unsympathetic - please note that someday you will be one of the elderly brigade!! Hopefully, not one of the disabled.

 

Well said!

[boewok]

Just have to put my "two cents" in.

 

I agree that the intent of the drill is met if all make it to the station and don their life jacket properly. I do not think that things will be that orderly if an emergency situation happens. We will get to our station as best we can with or without life jacket. There are boxes of jackets on deck for that purpose.

 

Those of you who "run" off the ship to various excursions may not have seen the crew lowering life boats, starting the engine, and actually taking the life boat away from the ship. I have seen this on every cruise while I take in the port from my chair on one of the top decks. As a previous poster noted, the crew has a lot more training than we see at muster. They are well prepared for emergencies.

 

Also each mobility impaired person is supposed to have an able-bodied traveling companion. This is posted on web sites under a "before you go" heading.