Discounting

[capecodrealtor]

"Why do you assume that prices will be higher?"

 

I have been monitoring a particular 4 day cruise on RCCL out of Miami for April on the Majesty with a large internet based agency. I checked last night and for a SO category for this particular date it was $420 PP prior to tax.

 

This morning, same parameters, the same booking is $449 PP prior to tax.

 

No assumption, fact. Internet agency's published, advertised price did increase.

 

Will the $58 differrence make me decide not to book, no. But, with the same booking being the same price with RCCL or my local TA, I will probably go with one of them. In fact, I will most likely book onboard my Navigator cruise this month and receive the $50 onboard credit.

[xpcdoojk]

Yes, but did you get a quote on the booking? Remember this affects advertising, and not necessarily pricing.

 

jc

[capecodrealtor]

You are right on point. I did not get a quote, but will. It does show that this particular agency is following RCCL's edict.

 

You provide a valuable suggestion for all. I will continue to monitor a few sites before getting quotes and deciding whether to book on board.

 

Thanks!

[xpcdoojk]

Booking on board armed with pricing knowledge is a good option, who knows what they may be authorized to throw in since they can cut the TA commission.:D Good luck.

 

 

jc

[Margaritaville TX]

After reading much on the new pricing policy I've still have not decided to take my business to a different cruiseline until more information becomes available. We have taken three 7 day cruises with RCCL in the last 16 months and was in the process of booking a fourth one. I have used a online agency in the past because of the better value than booking direct with RCCL. Last night I requested a quote from a online agency for a Junior Suite on AOS and then this morning the same request from the same agency and the quote was $810.20 more than last night's quote, the same as RCCL rate online.

 

If I decide to stay with RCCL why would I use a online agency for the same price? I don't use a travel agency to book air when I can book direct for the same or less at times.

 

I am one cruise away from being a Crown & Anchor Diamond member and I don't leave RCCL, I will be cruising less because of the higher prices.

[bUU]

I am still seeing RCI's prices lower than the competition, for the same itineraries.

[smeyer418]

Don't worry besides the low prices the rebatting cruise lines TA's will do something for you....one of the TA's told me what they will do but I don't want to take away from their announcement. Don't worry it won't violate the rules and it will save you money :), well most people money...anyway

 

BTW the Carnival memo effective 1/1/05 says no hidden discounts either..not only no advertised ones....

[wblynch]

Don't worry besides the low prices the rebatting cruise lines TA's will do something for you....one of the TA's told me what they will do but I don't want to take away from their announcement. Don't worry it won't violate the rules and it will save you money :), well most people money...anyway

 

What? Like "loyalty discounts on future cruises, booked through the same agency?"

 

It's a good way to lock people into the agency...

[Merion_Mom]

Bill: I already received such an e-mail from a certain online TA, numerically speaking, offering discount on a FUTURE cruise for booking one now.

 

Were you speaking from experience, or just hypothesizing?

 

Carol

[Smooth Sailing]

Let's just see what happens the first time RCCL tries to punish a discounter. Giant law suit I bet. Discounting is the American way - free enterprise and competition for our business. I thought price control was illegal - I don't believe that RCCL can tell an online discount agency what price they can charge their customers and what percent commission they can find as acceptable - just so long as RCCL gets their money - they can't control or punish discounters - I can assure you this policy will fall apart very quickly.

[tinkerme1]

Dave, I absolutely agree with you! Too many folks here are getting all fired up over, what may turn out to be, nothing.

 

I bet most of you haven't even tried comparing the prices direct from RCI with your on-line agents. I'll even go so far as to say that unless "your particular cruise is a mark-down by RCI" the difference isn't that large. Remember, when you're quoted a price from RCI, it includes your port fees, and does not include the taxes. They do give you a bottom-line price with the taxes very clearly on their website. Compare apples to apples before you get fired up.

 

Yes, I use an on-line TA, and I'm satisfied with their prices. Did I get a "great" deal? I saved about $25.00 a person from RCI published rates when the cruise FIRST became available for booking. If you book early, you save money!

 

I urge all of you to really look at the issues before you get angry. I also suggest that you look at agencies that have been doing volume business with RCI. They DO get better prices because of the volume they generate. They CAN pass that savings on to you! NO, I AM NOT A TRAVEL AGENT.

 

What I am attempting to do, is ask you all to take a step back and re-evaluate.

[wblynch]

Bill: I already received such an e-mail from a certain online TA, numerically speaking, offering discount on a FUTURE cruise for booking one now.

 

Were you speaking from experience, or just hypothesizing?

 

Carol

 

Funny that that has come out.

 

I was just hypothesizing... based on the current trend of business offering "loyalty rewards"

 

Even Jaguar is offering me a "loyalty discount" of an additional $1000 off my next car because I currently own one of their models. Mercedes got wise and sent a $1500 coupon to switch brands!

 

Ah, competition, a wonderful thing.

[Merion_Mom]

Even Jaguar is offering me a "loyalty discount" of an additional $1000 off my next car because I currently own one of their models. Mercedes got wise and sent a $1500 coupon to switch brands!

Ah, competition, a wonderful thing.

Bill - go back to Jaguar with the Mercedes coupon - I bet that they'll match or beat it! ;)

 

Carol

[smeyer418]

Let's just see what happens the first time RCCL tries to punish a discounter. Giant law suit I bet. Discounting is the American way - free enterprise and competition for our business. I thought price control was illegal - I don't believe that RCCL can tell an online discount agency what price they can charge their customers and what percent commission they can find as acceptable - just so long as RCCL gets their money - they can't control or punish discounters - I can assure you this policy will fall apart very quickly.

Smooth sailings please read some of my other postings. Don't you think RCCI has lawyers they used before this was sent out. Its not illegal to tell your agent they can't rebate the commission. But not all agents and bookings are agent/principal relationships. Some TA buy blocks of rooms and then resell them. That the cruise line can't control. Its not their money its a commission paid by the cruise line. They can require their agent not to rebate them.

[AB1626]

I am a travel agent(and do discount) and I would like to give my input into this conversation. Before computers there was no rebating,people came into agencies,booked a cruise and went. They didn't spend their lives checking every agency known to man,pitting agencies against each other,than booking with the one that gave it them for $5.00 less,than going onboard and asking everyone what they paid to make sure they didn't get ripped off.

 

I have heard stories and have had clients say things that make my stomache turn. I can't believe people could act like this over a few dollars.

 

This is the only business I know of that the customers seem to think they should dictate what the seller makes. They also think it's their business to know the percent of commission the seller makes,and what portion they think should be rebated. It really is none of your buisness to be honest!

 

Would you go to a furniture dealer or even a car dealer and say I know you make 50% commission and I want you to give me back 25%. No,you go in look at the price,maybe say you found it cheaper somewhere else,they double talk you and you buy it either there or the other place. Wherever it's cheaper. You don't insult them by making sure you know how much they make and insisting they are making too much!

 

No on to the RCI policy. You will never know if you are getting a good rate because you will either be able to afford it or you won't. Even now with rebating there is no bottom price. Whatever price you bought it at someone else got it cheaper. You bought yours at a price that you thought was reasonable and that you could afford. But it wasn't the lowest in the world!

 

It will be the same now,it will either be affordable to you or it won't.

 

Don't be worried that it will be $100's and $100's of dollars more beause it won't. Cruise prices have gone up in the past months because of world factors but ships are still getting sold out. There won't be set prices or brochure rates. I have been in this buisness for 17 years and have never sold a cruise for brochure rate. There are always different rates and specials.

 

The agents giving back commission was a perk of the internet age.

 

The reason that this happened is because all you people let it get out of hand and the agents complained. Obviously enough complained that they listened.

Now I'm not saying this isn't a step to direct booking or cutting commissions but the cruise lines,at this time,still value travel agents. The airlines never really did as years went one,even before computers. Also the airlines have more of a financial burden than the cruise lines. They were and are always in bankruptcy.

 

If you feel because of this you don't want to use a TA than don't let the door hit on the way out! We don't need people who tell us what we should make, and I have had people do that to me. We don't need people that do everything they can to find out the inner workings of the business so they can throw it up to the agents face. Don't we have aright to make a living?

How would you like if you were treated like this in your buisness?

 

We do give a serivce and if you don't feel that is true well fine. You could also learn the law and be your own lawyer,or learn to cut hair and cut your families hair. Simple cruises are easy to book but there are things that are or become complicated at times. I have done things for my clients that they have been very greatful for. Things that had to be taken care of while they were on the cruise.

 

So again don't loose sleep over how much you are going to ripped off,you won't pay that much more. But think again when you belittle a profession and think you have a right to dictate what you think is fair for someone or a business to make!

 

Thank you

[capecodrealtor]

"The agents giving back commission was a perk of the internet age.

 

The reason that this happened is because all you people let it get out of hand....."

 

With all due respect, I need to politely disagree.

 

It was not customers or clients who began the discounting, it was the travel agents looking to get a competitive advantage over others. Please don't belittle customers trying to become educated before making a decision. If you want to place a blame, please look at your business owners or perhaps organizations like Consumer Reports who consistently preach comparison shopping for similar quality.

 

In my business, everyone knows what I earn up front. Real estate agents disclose everything up front in terms of compensation. Like your industry, there is continued downward pressure on all commission rates. Also like your industry, there are new businesses popping up all the time who offer "better, cheaper, etc" in my industry. What can we do, be better. Offer better service for the same product.

 

Competition is not bad, it is the basis of a capitalistic society. Competition should lead to greater professionalsism in the marketplace, not less.

 

To blame consumers for "letting it get out of hand..." is in my opinion, misplaced anger. If you must place blame, blame the travel industry business owners who created a business model which discounted commissions to create a competitive advantage over the cruise lines directly or the traditional brick and mortar agencies.

 

Internet research is not bad, just different. Your industry, like mine, needs to adjust and learn to offer better service for the same quality product.

[AB1626]

I appreciate your rebutle but here are some points.

 

It was not customers or clients who began the discounting, it was the travel agents looking to get a competitive advantage over others. Please don't belittle customers trying to become educated before making a decision. If you want to place a blame, please look at your business owners or perhaps organizations like Consumer Reports who consistently preach comparison shopping for similar quality.

You are right about that. It was agencies that did start this but the consumers have taken a bit too far. That is why the cruise line is cracking down because these agencies have also taken it too far.

I'm not arguing that people shouldn't look for a good deal,comparison shop or try to get rebates or discounts but it's the attitude. I have had people tell me straight out that they know what I make and they should get more of a discount.

Even on this board there is a thread about what everyone would like to get in place of the discounts. Some of the thoughts were shore excursions(could be costly),digital cameras,steros,and all kinds of things. How much do these people think we make? And why do they feel they should get something of such great value? Years ago when people just paid the regular rates we sent wine and they were happy.

 

To use the real estate agent analogy. Yes they do tell you how much they make but do people sit down with an agent and say "you make 6% and I want 3% back" or going around expecting half their commission back and getting mad if they don't get it? It's the attitude.

 

Do you get that in your business? You say they know what you make but do they want money back from your pocket?

 

Competition is not bad, it is the basis of a capitalistic society. Competition should lead to greater professionalsism in the marketplace, not less.

You are right about that of course. And you are right that the it should lead to more professionalism. I beleive in customer service and have never given anything less than my best and I discount. So I give the best of both worlds. There are agencies that hire order takers and do so much volume they can care less after they get your booking. These are the ones that might need to change their outlook.

 

But for those of us that have been in this business for years,do give great customer serivce and than to be insulted is not right.

 

Right away on a bunch of threads people are saying "who needs travel agents anyway" those are the people than we don't want to deal with anyway.

 

I do agree research is in everyones best interest but not when you dictate other peoples salaries or profit.

 

I just bought furniture. I got prices from North Carolina and went to a lcoal store here to see if they could match the price. They did. That was the extent of it. I didn't go in there saying I know you make this much and I want more. I also didn't research how much they make.

I'm not saying all people do this,most just say they got this price over there and can I match it. I can either match or not. But some people are downright insulting and it has been more and more that way.

 

This is the thing that upsets me the most. The attitude.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cruisingagentone]

AB1626

I couldn't agree with more. You said everything I was thinking on the subject. You don't know how many times I have had people say I can get it for $5.00 at such and such website and we just then go for it. This will not even the playing field as some have said because key accounts still get a lower rate than others.

We had to go to rebating also to deal with the agency that has key account status and the internet. Also the group policy has not changed so the large agency can still buy group space and do what they want. We're just sorry it came to this, if the cruise line would make the rates the same for all agents we might have a chance with the excellent service we offer but without that adjustment in pricing I don't know if we will survive.

[rje1955]

So, does this mean, the TA's that only give 85% or less value for C&A coupons are going to start honoring 100% of their value?

Hope I didn't open another can of worms.

[capecodrealtor]

AB,

 

We constantly get asked to cut our commissions. Yes they know what we make and the reaction is consistently, "So and so will do it for less, why won't you?" I own the company and my agents are told to walk away. We obviously discount, and to our best clients we have a staggerred scale of commission.

 

Yes, consumers in general want more and expect businesses to take less, and yes, it is all in the attitude. I know we have lost business because we will not cut indiscriminately, but I know in many cases, I didn't want that business anyway. In most cases, the majoriity of our clients will agree to our price structure to get access to the services we provide, but, we hear all the time, "well, I had to ask anyway!"

 

I am not opposed to what is happening by the cruiselines. I think that any business can charge what they feel is reasonable for services rendered and who can sell those services for them. The market decides if those rates or resellers are reasonable and ultimately determine how successful that the business will be. We as business owners and operators have to determine our own business models and how we will react to this market force.

[AB1626]

Capecod-I think you understand where I am coming from than. My friend is a realtor and she doesn't get asked to cut her commission so I didn't realize if was happening your business also. But I think there is more respect in your business than in ours. Also you say you give rebates to certain clients. Well we have to do it across the board and sometimes very steeply or we loose the sale and eventually our business. We can't pick and choose.

 

Cruisingag- I didn't want to mention Key accounts,to me that is the biggest problem and what started all of this. The big agencies figured they could discount on top of the Key account rate and make a killing,which is what they did. How could the small guy get their business up to Key Account status if they can't get the buisness in the first place? It's a catch 22. I think they should have done away with Key Accounts and kept the rebating,that would make it more of an even playing field. It would make rates the same for everyone and everyone can discount as they see fit. Key Accounts are like double rebates for some.

 

Group rates could still be a problem but even small agencies can book a group. That will remain to be seen.

 

I think if you plan your strategy right this could work out. But who knows,we'll have to wait and see.

 

RJE-When they discount a coupon we get less commssion so if we are giving a discount than we couldn't honor the full coupon amount. But if we are charging the regular rate than yes,you should get 100% of the coupon.

[timbo89]

AB1626 says:

 

"Would you go to a furniture dealer or even a car dealer and say I know you make 50% commission and I want you to give me back 25%. No,you go in look at the price,maybe say you found it cheaper somewhere else,they double talk you and you buy it either there or the other place. Wherever it's cheaper. You don't insult them by making sure you know how much they make and insisting they are making too much!"

 

Ummmm........When I shop for a car, I know EXACTLY what the invoice price is, what dealer "give backs" there are, and what incentive programs (either customer or dealer) are in effect. There are, infact, many internet sites and services to provide such information to the interested consumer. There are even car buying services who will shop for you. There are sites to inform you of the value of your trade-in. There are sites to inform you of the lease and interest factors. This way. I don't have to put up with a run around when I shop for a car.

 

I WISH the cruise industry was this way. It would make my life a whole lot simpler.

 

I would not be at all surprised if the cruise industry follows the airline model:

 

1. Standardize commissions ("Go to your helful T/A")

2. Reduce commissions.

3. Reduce commissions some more.

4. Eliminate commissions.

4. Begin price wars between cruiselines when they can't fill their ships. The virtual elimination of T/A's would allow them to mess around with pricing at will.

 

I can't understand why someone would want to pay more than they have to.

 

JMHO

[AB1626]

Timbo-yes we all do that with cars. But do you REALLY know what the cost of the car or the commssion to the salesman is? No.

 

You might be right. Maybe they will phase out agents in the long run but if they do it will take years. As I said cruise lines do still find us valuable. We get a lot more from them than they we did from the airlines.

 

Even if they do phase out agents and lower the rates to reflect that there still will be people who will pay a fee for service. I didn't feel that way with airline tickets because that is easy to book. But with cruises there are people that want advice,don't want to bother with booking it and especially groups. Groups can get tricky and be a hassle.

So it will be awhile before they phase us out completely.

 

Also people won't be paying more,if you feel a price is fair you'll pay it,if it's in your budget you'll pay it. You can't know if it's more unless you see it lower and than you can ask if someone can match it. If you don't see it lower than you don't know. As I said you'll pay one price,the next guy will pay lower,and the next guy will be higher. That is the way it is. There are millions of prices and no one is the lowest,maybe there is the lowest but it's infinite and no one will find it.

Maybe it would be better if there was a set price than you all wouldn't have to feel you were paying more!

[Ocean Boy]

You talk about your customers having an attitude but I have to tell you that you come across as having one too. In fact, you seem quite angry but maybe I am just mistaken and it is just passion. I have no problem with that. Maybe you have an odd cross section of clients but I view myself as a typical consumer and here is my take on this.

 

First of all, I could care less how much you or any other TA makes. I don't care what percentage you get. That is between you and the cruise line and absolutely none of my business.

 

Secondly, I don't go aboard ship and try to fine out what anyone else paid. No one has ever asked what I paid for the cruise either. I could care less what they paid and what I paid is none of their business.

 

Thirdly, I don't want a camera, stereo, flowers, wine, or any other such thing. If you were to offer those types of things then I would feel that you were not giving your best possible deal on the cruise and using the extra fare to pay for things that are useless to me.

 

Fourthly, I just want a fare deal. I know what the cruise line is charging and I know what various agencies are charging. I am intellegent enough to piece that all together and figure out what a reasonable price for the cruise is. If I am willing to pay that price I will go on the cruise and if I am not I won't.

 

People try to make it sound like this is such a hard subject to comprehend. There is nothing more here than some basic math and some common sense. Everyone needs to drop the attitudes. And I am quite sure of this. I highly doubt that it was the consumer who came up with the idea of playing around with the TAs commissions. No, the agencies opened that can of worms and then you get angry at the consumers for running with it. You folks brought this on and RCI comes up with a policy that gets you out of your own mess at our expense.

 

And that is my take on this.

[CSW]

AB1626,

 

Your #4 post said "You will never know if you are getting a good rate because you will either be able to afford it or you won't." Huh? What

kind of financial logic is that? I cruise much more frequently now b/c

I can find the rate I'm comfortable with and don't stumble blindly into

the TA den like I used to.

 

I'm sorry you're in a career that's downsizing. The market's evolving before

everyone's eyes and the savvy consumer will likely decline to take the hit.

These are leisure dollars we're spending.

 

We're here, we're clear, get used to it.

 

CSW