Cancel Cruise for April HAL Won't Give Back Insurance Money $200-What Can I do?

[bigwally]

But an interesting life policy. Hope you get back the 50k....... beats the other option!

 

Me too! Problem is, I'm not really sure what the wife is hoping for. :)

[sail7seas]

Now THAT's a PROBLEM and I think I'll leave that one entirely to you to handle. :)

 

[HeatherInFlorida]

As others have said, the benefit of HAL's insurance is that you can cancel for any reason after final payment and you get $$$, not a credit, back. That is a HUGE benefit.

 

But you pay for that. A policy that lenient comes at a price. You are paying someone to get all your $$ back. From your OP it seems that HAL's agent on board wasn't clear with you that the insurance covers your entire cruise fare with the exception of the insurance premium.

 

On the other hand, as everyone has pointed out, once you buy insurance except in rare circumstances such as outlined above, you will not get your money back. It's a separate purchase from the cruise fare.

 

As you say, Roz, we live we learn .... time doesn't run out on that:) .

[wizard-of-roz]

Heather: Well put!!!!! Thanks all!

[noblepa]

On the other hand, as everyone has pointed out, once you buy insurance except in rare circumstances such as outlined above, you will not get your money back. It's a separate purchase from the cruise fare.

 

Consider this scenario, which I don't think is at all far-fetched. I sign a purchase agreement to buy a house. Everything seems to be going well and we are on track to close the deal on schedule.

 

A week before closing, I call the insurance company that carries my home-owners insurance and arrange for a policy. Just to make sure the policy is in force on the day of closing, I pay the first, six-month premium a week before closing. At that point, I still don't own the house.

 

For some reason, either on my part of that of the seller, the deal falls through three days before closing. Are you telling me that I shouldn't expect a refund of the premium I paid to the insurer.

 

To me, this seems to be exactly the same situation. The insurer has incurred zero risk at that point.

 

I understand that, if I actually closed the deal and moved into the house, I would not be entitled to a refund, just because I didn't file a claim against the policy during the premium period. That's not the same thing at all. In that case, there would be a risk for the insurer. If the deal falls through before closing, there is no conceivable situation in which the insurer would be obligated to pay; therefore there is no risk.

 

In the scenario that someone mentioned, in which I develop a medical condition that would cause me to cancel my cruise, BEFORE FINAL PAYMENT, again I would posit that, until that final payment is made (or at least due), the insurer has no risk. If I get sick 120 days before sailing, and know I'm not going to sail, and I cancel the cruise, the insurer has absolutely no obligate or risk.

 

OTOH, I realize that I'm talking about the way it ought to be, not the way it is.

[jtl513]

Consider this scenario, which I don't think is at all far-fetched. ...

HAL's CPP is not the same as car or home insurance at all. If you're X months into a car or home policy and you decide to cancel the policy for any reason, you will get a refund of the unearned premium. I have done it. You may not get back the full unearned amount - it may be, say, 75% or 70% on a policy that is just 20% "used". Some states, I believe, require that by law.

 

However HAL's CPP plan explicitly states, in the terms that you agree to, that the premium is non-refundable. As I see it, if HAL did not insist on this they could not offer the "Cancel for any reason" coverage, because they would be opening themselves up to extensive "whim" bookings. I could book the Penthouse on 25 sailings a year "just in case" I win the lottery, and as long as I cancel before final payment I would lose nothing.

 

Or, I could book the Penthouse on two or more concurrent cruises (on different lines) while I "make up my mind" which one I want to take. If this got to be a rampant practice, HAL could find themselves suddenly getting lots of PS and S cabins getting dumped back on the market 75 days before sailings, and having to discount them heavily to fill them.

 

Other cruise lines that don't require insurance until final payment time do not have the "cancel for any reason" clause.

[Addict]

HAL's CPP is not the same as car or home insurance at all. If you're X months into a car or home policy and you decide to cancel the policy for any reason, you will get a refund of the unearned premium. I have done it. You may not get back the full unearned amount - it may be, say, 75% or 70% on a policy that is just 20% "used". Some states, I believe, require that by law.

 

However HAL's CPP plan explicitly states, in the terms that you agree to, that the premium is non-refundable. As I see it, if HAL did not insist on this they could not offer the "Cancel for any reason" coverage, because they would be opening themselves up to extensive "whim" bookings. I could book the Penthouse on 25 sailings a year "just in case" I win the lottery, and as long as I cancel before final payment I would lose nothing.

 

Or, I could book the Penthouse on two or more concurrent cruises (on different lines) while I "make up my mind" which one I want to take. If this got to be a rampant practice, HAL could find themselves suddenly getting lots of PS and S cabins getting dumped back on the market 75 days before sailings, and having to discount them heavily to fill them.

 

Other cruise lines that don't require insurance until final payment time do not have the "cancel for any reason" clause.

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong (I'm a Brit and we have a totally different set of rules concerning cancelling before final payment - we lose our deposit, simple as that), but I was under the impression that if you are in the US you can cancel any time up to final payment without penalty? Is that correct? If so, I don't see why you couldn't do what you have quoted above and not lose anything - ie booking more than one cruise/cabin, and if that is the case, that does not explain HAL's policy re insurance. There is no risk to them before final payment. The "usage" of the insurance does not start until within the penalty period - so if you have not used it, why can't you return it unused? (in simple terms, if you see what I mean). Maybe I am misinformed?

[RuthC]

I was under the impression that if you are in the US you can cancel any time up to final payment without penalty? Is that correct?

Yes, that's correct.

If so, I don't see why you couldn't do what you have quoted above and not lose anything - ie booking more than one cruise/cabin, and if that is the case, that does not explain HAL's policy re insurance. There is no risk to them before final payment.

They have taken on a risk that you may need to use it at some point---somebody will. They spread that risk over all the purchasers.

The "usage" of the insurance does not start until within the penalty period

See above.

- so if you have not used it, why can't you return it unused? (in simple terms, if you see what I mean). Maybe I am misinformed?

Because that's the way the agreement was set up.

If you don't want to agree to such a plan there is nothing that forces you to. There are other insurance plans out there which can be purchased at final payment; some of them even cover pre-existing conditions. None of them, however, cover "cancel for any reason" within the final payment period.

It's all a trade-off. Which provisions are most important to the individual---then purchase an insurance that gives priority to those provisions.

[Addict]

So, presumably, HALs insurance is only available to purchase when you book - not at a later point?

 

Not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand something that makes no sense to me?

 

Thanks.

[RuthC]

So, presumably, HALs insurance is only available to purchase when you book - not at a later point?

Correct. It's a gamble any way you do it. When you take HAL's insurance you are covering yourself if you want/need to cancel for any reason after the final payment (that's the only way to get that coverage). You are also covering yourself for the other, usual situations---such as trip interruption/cancellation for medical reasons, medical evacuation, repatriation of remains, etc.

Some people take the ultimate gamble and don't buy any insurance at all. Most of the time they win; sometimes they lose.

[Addict]

Thanks.

 

It's different for us, as we would lose the depost no matter when we cancelled - even 24 hours after booking. So we need insurance right from the start anyway. We always have annual worldwide cover, and renew it every year so it never expires. That way we know we are covered for all eventualites.

[jtl513]

If so, I don't see why you couldn't do what you have quoted above and not lose anything - ie booking more than one cruise/cabin, and if that is the case, that does not explain HAL's policy re insurance.

This thread is about whether the CPP premium should be returned or not.

 

The way it currently is, if I were to book 25 cruises and put down on each a deposit of, say, $900 pp and pay $500 pp for the Platinum Cancellation Protection Plan, then every time I cancel a cruise I would get back the full $900 deposit but NOT the $500 CPP cost.

 

IF HAL were to change the terms, and refund the CPP premium as well, THEN I would truly "not lose anything", and THEN there would be nothing to discourage me from booking all those Penthouses "just in case" I win the lottery! :D

[Jade13]

So, presumably, HALs insurance is only available to purchase when you book - not at a later point?

 

Not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand something that makes no sense to me?

 

Thanks.

 

Yes, it is only available at deposit.

 

Btw, why can't someone in the UK purchase a cruise through a US TA and not lose such a large amount if they have to cancel?

 

Many of the TA's in the US do have a penalty if you cancel. The ones I have seen run from $25.00 to $75.00 per person (not a lot considering the way the dollar is going vs the Euro). But, if you purchase the insurance, it is not refundable. Does HAL have the same policy for European and other non US citizens? The HAL policy we have in the US is underwritten by a US insurance company.

 

My stepdaughter decided to cancel at 31 days prior to a 10 day cruise out of Europe. Her third person in the cabin rate was $899.00 and the insurance was $99.00 (which included $50K in medical evacuation). Anyway, at 31 days our penalty was $44.95 (plus the non-refundable insurance). It was paid back in cash on my credit card. If I did the math right we got back 95% at 31 days (not counting the insurance cost) and it would have only been back 90% at 30 days until 24 hours prior to departure. Also, this portion of the policy is not really insurance, since HAL took the risk and paid us back. Once you are within 24 hours of departure the real insurance (underwritten by the insurance company) kicks in and only covers covered reasons (mostly medical).

[HeatherInFlorida]

I think I'm just too old for all this:D . For me, this is plain and simple. If you buy HAL's insurance it's made very clear (at least to me) that if you cancel before final payment you will get all but the premium back.

 

And I'm pretty sure (those who know better please correct me if I'm wrong) if you book another HAL cruise you can generally transfer the premium over to the new booking.

 

That's it ... cut and dried, plain and simple. It seems to me that no matter what is brought up on this board, even things that are as clear as crystal, someone will find a way pick it apart and find a reason it shouldn't be the way it is.

 

But it is.:) Nothing anyone can do about it. Waste of precious time when there's packing to do!!:D

[sail7seas]

Consider this scenario, which I don't think is at all far-fetched. I sign a purchase agreement to buy a house. Everything seems to be going well and we are on track to close the deal on schedule.

 

A week before closing, I call the insurance company that carries my home-owners insurance and arrange for a policy. Just to make sure the policy is in force on the day of closing, I pay the first, six-month premium a week before closing. At that point, I still don't own the house.

 

For some reason, either on my part of that of the seller, the deal falls through three days before closing. Are you telling me that I shouldn't expect a refund of the premium I paid to the insurer.

 

To me, this seems to be exactly the same situation. The insurer has incurred zero risk at that point.

 

I understand that, if I actually closed the deal and moved into the house, I would not be entitled to a refund, just because I didn't file a claim against the policy during the premium period. That's not the same thing at all. In that case, there would be a risk for the insurer. If the deal falls through before closing, there is no conceivable situation in which the insurer would be obligated to pay; therefore there is no risk.

 

.

 

 

I don't think your scenario could happen. You could not purchase insurance for that house until you pass papers and own it. You do not have an insurable interest until you own it.

 

The current owners are responsible for insuring.

You arrange in advance with your insurance company that a new policy (your policy) will take effect at the time you become owner.

[Jade13]

Consider this scenario, which I don't think is at all far-fetched. I sign a purchase agreement to buy a house. Everything seems to be going well and we are on track to close the deal on schedule.

 

A week before closing, I call the insurance company that carries my home-owners insurance and arrange for a policy. Just to make sure the policy is in force on the day of closing, I pay the first, six-month premium a week before closing. At that point, I still don't own the house.

 

For some reason, either on my part of that of the seller, the deal falls through three days before closing. Are you telling me that I shouldn't expect a refund of the premium I paid to the insurer.

 

To me, this seems to be exactly the same situation. The insurer has incurred zero risk at that point.

 

I understand that, if I actually closed the deal and moved into the house, I would not be entitled to a refund, just because I didn't file a claim against the policy during the premium period. That's not the same thing at all. In that case, there would be a risk for the insurer. If the deal falls through before closing, there is no conceivable situation in which the insurer would be obligated to pay; therefore there is no risk.

 

In the scenario that someone mentioned, in which I develop a medical condition that would cause me to cancel my cruise, BEFORE FINAL PAYMENT, again I would posit that, until that final payment is made (or at least due), the insurer has no risk. If I get sick 120 days before sailing, and know I'm not going to sail, and I cancel the cruise, the insurer has absolutely no obligate or risk.

 

OTOH, I realize that I'm talking about the way it ought to be, not the way it is.

 

 

The insurance would not go into affect until you own the property. The exception would be renters insurance, but that covers personal property.

[Grumpy1]

As one who has used the trip insurance... big time!... I'll chime in. When we booked the Prinsendam 66 day cruise srarting in January 2007, it was still a year away from sailing. I did not buy the HAL insuance, as I had no pre existing conditions to worry about and knew that I could get a full coverage policy at final payment. At final payment, I insured through Access America.

 

We had to cancel for medical reasons just a couple of days before the cruise. My TA sent me the claim forms and notified HAL of the cancellation. HAL, within a few days refunded all of the prepaid shore excursions and on board packages that I had purchased.

 

I filed my claim with Access America for everything that had not been refunded except the cost of the insurance. I added to that the cost of our Brazilian visas, since we could not meet the 90 day entry requirement to validate the visa.

 

The claim was not settled until the cruise was over. I guess they wanted to make sure we didn't join in progress. But shortly after the end of the cruise we received our check... in excess if $50,000... for every cent we had claimed.

 

Now we are booked on the same cruise for 2008. Because of the prexisting condition that I now have, I had to purchase the insurance at time of booking. It also could not be with Access America since they had paid a prior claim and won't take the risk again. My TA recommended another company, Travelex, rather than the HAL insurance and I purchased that. My fervent hope is that I don't need it this time, but I was very glad that I had good coverage last time.

 

I was very pleased with the way HAL handled their end of the claim and the way Access America handled their part of it.

 

We booked our Eurodam cruise while onboard the Maasdam. I took the HAL insurance for that one with the specific understanding that the booking deposit and the insurance could be transferred to another booking within two years if we decided to cancel Eurodam prior to final payment. To me, that seems quite fair. If I did not have the preexisting condition I would have turned down the insurance, knowing I could get a comparable policy at final payment.

[hammybee]

I don't think your scenario could happen. You could not purchase insurance for that house until you pass papers and own it. You do not have an insurable interest until you own it.

 

The current owners are responsible for insuring.

You arrange in advance with your insurance company that a new policy (your policy) will take effect at the time you become owner.

 

I am a Realtor and your assessemnt is correct. The effective date of the policy is the closing date.

 

Regardless of how anyone feels about HAL's policy it is what it is and they make no bones or secrets about it. We are all free to purchase insurance elsewhere or self insure. And those of us who buy anything without understanding what we are buying are apt to be surprised, sooner or later.

[Jade13]

We booked our Eurodam cruise while onboard the Maasdam. I took the HAL insurance for that one with the specific understanding that the booking deposit and the insurance could be transferred to another booking within two years if we decided to cancel Eurodam prior to final payment. To me, that seems quite fair. If I did not have the preexisting condition I would have turned down the insurance, knowing I could get a comparable policy at final payment.

 

The only thing is that my understanding is that you would have to pick another cruise at the time of cancelation and transfer to another cruise at the same time There is a tricky area I am not clear about as one has the opportunity while onboard to purchase future cruise credits and in that situation they can pick up the insurance when they make a decision on the cruise. It is not my understanding that you could revert the canceled cruise back into furture cruise credits and float the insurance payment for 2 years. Of course the answer to this is to pick another cruise and change it a second or third time in order to reuse the insurance payment.

 

Maybe you meant that the cruise you pick to transfer to must take place within two years? I may have misread what you typed.

[Addict]

Yes, it is only available at deposit.

 

Btw, why can't someone in the UK purchase a cruise through a US TA and not lose such a large amount if they have to cancel?

 

Many of the TA's in the US do have a penalty if you cancel. The ones I have seen run from $25.00 to $75.00 per person (not a lot considering the way the dollar is going vs the Euro). But, if you purchase the insurance, it is not refundable. Does HAL have the same policy for European and other non US citizens? The HAL policy we have in the US is underwritten by a US insurance company.

 

My stepdaughter decided to cancel at 31 days prior to a 10 day cruise out of Europe. Her third person in the cabin rate was $899.00 and the insurance was $99.00 (which included $50K in medical evacuation). Anyway, at 31 days our penalty was $44.95 (plus the non-refundable insurance). It was paid back in cash on my credit card. If I did the math right we got back 95% at 31 days (not counting the insurance cost) and it would have only been back 90% at 30 days until 24 hours prior to departure. Also, this portion of the policy is not really insurance, since HAL took the risk and paid us back. Once you are within 24 hours of departure the real insurance (underwritten by the insurance company) kicks in and only covers covered reasons (mostly medical).

 

Wow Jade, you have completely blown my brain with that little scenario. Anyway, to answer the first question - yes, we could book through a US TA - but not all of them can deal with us in the UK - not sure why. And they don't always have the best price! We had a scenario when we booked this cruise, within days the price had dropped £700 (pounds), HAL would not honour it and we couldn't cancel and re-book (as you could in the US) as we stood to lose our deposit which was also £700:eek: . Eventually, HAL agreed to a discount of around £500 (I think - can't be doing the sums again) - because they could not prove that I had seen Terms and Conditions before I lodged my deposit. There is nothing on their website about special conditions for the UK, and I booked over the phone so could not have had sight of the T & Cs before making that payment. I still feel I was "done" a little but at least they agreed to something - and this was 10 months before the cruise!!!!

 

The way it currently is, if I were to book 25 cruises and put down on each a deposit of, say, $900 pp and pay $500 pp for the Platinum Cancellation Protection Plan, then every time I cancel a cruise I would get back the full $900 deposit but NOT the $500 CPP cost.

 

Yes, but I meant if you had NOT paid for insurance. Anyone could do this if there was no risk of losing deposit?

 

Ok enough, getting way too complicated for me. I just wanted to understand how HALs insurance works.

 

Now I do.:D

 

Happy days!

[wizard-of-roz]

I "bow" to all of you for the clear explanations of how HAL's insurance works......

Thanks again, for all the info.......

We are keeping our cruise "in place!" DH is not thrilled....he'll get over it!!!!! He also is giving me the "eyebrow" thing about not reading the cancellation of insurance before buying it.....he'll have to get over that one too!!!!! ;)

Everyone should have such problems....With the condition of our world, today......It's a pleasure to be so concerned about this trivial issue!

[hammybee]

I "bow" to all of you for the clear explanations of how HAL's insurance works......

 

Thanks again, for all the info.......

 

We are keeping our cruise "in place!" DH is not thrilled....he'll get over it!!!!! He also is giving me the "eyebrow" thing about not reading the cancellation of insurance before buying it.....he'll have to get over that one too!!!!! ;)

 

Everyone should have such problems....With the condition of our world, today......It's a pleasure to be so concerned about this trivial issue!

 

Roz, you are well balanced. I hope to sail with you, one day.

[wizard-of-roz]

And, you as well!!!!!! :)

[jtl513]

Yes, but I meant if you had NOT paid for insurance.

If no insurance, then 100% loss! :D And none of what I said would apply on this thread's topic.

Anyone could do this if there was no risk of losing deposit?

I don't understand ... is this a question or a statement? :confused:

[Jade13]

I "bow" to all of you for the clear explanations of how HAL's insurance works......

 

Thanks again, for all the info.......

 

We are keeping our cruise "in place!" DH is not thrilled....he'll get over it!!!!! He also is giving me the "eyebrow" thing about not reading the cancellation of insurance before buying it.....he'll have to get over that one too!!!!! ;)

 

Everyone should have such problems....With the condition of our world, today......It's a pleasure to be so concerned about this trivial issue!

 

Great! So, you are keeping the same date/itinerary?