CC Members help - Cruise ships locked out

[matmar]

See this article in todays Courier Mail.

 

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22675671-3102,00.html

 

This is just not on, we need to unite and lodge our thoughts on this issue.

 

I am going to lodge a complaint with the Qld Govt, if all CC members could do the same something might happen. Their email are as follows:

 

Anna Bligh - Premier premier@ministerial.qld.gov.au

Desley Boyle - Minister for Tourism tourism@ministerial.qld.gov.au

Reg Mickel - Minister for Transport transport@ministerial.qld.gov.au

Port of Brisbane authority - info@portbris.com.au

 

The story reads:

 

IT'S 10 o'clock on a perfect spring morning and the sun is playing off the water's mirror finish along the river's Hamilton reach.

A handful of sightseers wander through the Portside complex, mingling with local business people clutching takeaway coffee as they head for their workplaces.

In a small retail travel office beneath a banner which reads Cruising Down Under, travel agent Ian Hunter is staring into a screen. The email he'd sent me a few days previously hinted at a crisis at Portside so he turns off his computer and we get coffee and talk.

The problem, he says, was that the government, through the harbour master, had set an arbitrary limit of 240m on the length of ships that could sail up the river and under the Gateway Bridge to dock at Portside.

As a result the city has a cruise terminal without cruise ships. The background to the issue, he says, was that the development of million-dollar-plus apartments surrounding Portside was approved by the government subject to the building of a cruise terminal.

The developer, he says, had made substantial profits selling the apartments but now the government, through the harbour master, was blocking international cruise ships from berthing there.

"Next week, the 279m superliner Rhapsody of the Seas will call into Brisbane but she's been deemed too long to navigate the river and will be relegated to Fisherman Islands cargo terminal. Her captain is more than happy to bring her up but is being prevented from doing so by government regulations.

"Yet the harbour master has previously allowed two P&O liners, the 260m Oriana and the 270m Aurora, to berth at Portside.

"That's what we struggle with in the industry – they've already set a precedent. Legend of the Seas is 264m long and she turned in the river but to this day, the authorities deny that she did that, but we have photographs of her doing it!" says Hunter with exasperation. "She just turned in the river and it took about 10 minutes."

"When you've got a swing basin in the river that allows 399m, there's plenty of room for them to manoeuvre."

He dismisses my suggestion that the height of the Gateway Bridge is an issue.

"There's no problem with the bridge. There's plenty of clearance so we just don't see why these ships, which are spectacular to see, are not being allowed to berth here so people can get a look at them.

"Our biggest embarrassment is going to be the Queen Victoria next February. She's coming to Brisbane on her maiden world cruise and she'll be relegated to Fisherman Islands! This is the creme de la creme!"

My attention wanders and for a moment I'm sitting in a bar on the Queen Victoria as a waiter pours Louis Roederer Cristal into my glass, but Hunter's rising exasperation quickly hauls me back to reality.

"She can get under the bridge and she can turn," he says. "She's 90,000 tonnes with about 2000 passengers, the next step up from the QE2 and just under the Queen Mary 2, but they won't let her come up under the present regulations, yet the technology is amazing now. These ships can turn in their own length.

"And the captains also cop a caning from their passengers on the comment sheets. The passengers forced to dock at Fisherman Islands say Brisbane's a hole.

"In the travel industry, we can't understand it. There's no rhyme nor reason for it, particularly when these ships will become the average size for ships in Australia at 260m. They'll be the norm within the next five years so what are we going to do?" Hunter asks.

"We have this fantastic complex here but at the moment, these ships are being sent to Fisherman Islands where they don't have a guaranteed berth and the operators at Fisherman Islands don't want them there.

"They have to spend too much time preparing for security and making safe walking areas for the passengers. They have to remove containers and line them up to make streets along the wharf.

"It's a container wharf. It's not a passenger terminal. Our biggest fear in the tourism industry is that the captains will start telling their head offices that it's too hard in Brisbane. Then we lose them all. Once they make that decision, they won't come back and these guys bring in a massive amount of income to the state.

"To me it appears to be bureaucracy at its worst. We just don't get it. We can only guess there's no understanding of the technology of these ships and how manoeuvrable they are."

I offer the view that perhaps the owners of the horribly expensive highrise apartments with their nice views of the river don't want cruise ship passengers tramping around the complex and have brought political pressure to bear to keep the ships down at the river mouth.

Hunter admits it could be part of the problem. "But this was always a cruise terminal first before anything else," he says. "At the end of the day, these people knew it was a cruise terminal when they bought their apartments and they're probably thinking 'now that we're here, we've parted with all this money and we've got some influence'.

"The authorities and the government need to stand up and be counted on this and remind these people that this is a cruise terminal and it can be a major source of tourism dollars to the state of Queensland.

"We went to a meeting recently at Tourism Queensland to establish an advisory body to advance the preparation of a white paper on the cruise industry in Queensland and there's not one person from the travel industry on that board," he says, his exasperation level again moving into the red zone.

I suggest to Hunter that his remarks are not likely to make him the most popular person in some circles and he shrugs. "We see the big picture. Cruising is the fastest growth area of the entire international travel industry and it's growing faster than the airlines."

[Star-Man]

Thats just, well, stupid. Honestly, what is the point of wasting all that money on a cruise terminal when within the next two years (my estimate) no ships will be able to berth there.

 

No wonder the passengers are fed up with being relegated to Fishermans Island, i would be too. To be honest, it felt like we were at a cargo wharf in Cairns last time due to the construction they were doing at the time even though it was practically in the heart of town. At least with portside, there is the city cat and buses along kingsford smith drive so the passengers can make their own way into the city and surrounds at their leisure, not having to wait on buses to and from fishermans island.

 

And to the people who had the cash to blow on the apartments at portside who now dont want their river views spoiled by cruise ships, why did you buy there? They all knew it was a cruise terminal, what did they expect to happen there? Its bad enough that people get ushered away from the observation deck after a ship leaves if there is a function on in the room behind it.

 

Portside was supposed to bring us onto the cruising world map. If i was a passenger on a bigger ship and knew that we were being forced to berth at fishermans island, id pick an itinerary that didnt include brisbane :(

[mummsie]

My husband and I believe they may have been stopped by a certain cruise line.!!! Some big money must have changed hands so I don't think it matters who you write too nothing will be done about it. !! Just my 2 cents worth :) Mummsie

[begginer_cruiser]

Thats just, well, stupid. Honestly, what is the point of wasting all that money on a cruise terminal when within the next two years (my estimate) no ships will be able to berth there.

 

No wonder the passengers are fed up with being relegated to Fishermans Island, i would be too. To be honest, it felt like we were at a cargo wharf in Cairns last time due to the construction they were doing at the time even though it was practically in the heart of town. At least with portside, there is the city cat and buses along kingsford smith drive so the passengers can make their own way into the city and surrounds at their leisure, not having to wait on buses to and from fishermans island.

 

And to the people who had the cash to blow on the apartments at portside who now dont want their river views spoiled by cruise ships, why did you buy there? They all knew it was a cruise terminal, what did they expect to happen there? Its bad enough that people get ushered away from the observation deck after a ship leaves if there is a function on in the room behind it.

 

Portside was supposed to bring us onto the cruising world map. If i was a passenger on a bigger ship and knew that we were being forced to berth at fishermans island, id pick an itinerary that didnt include brisbane :(

 

Well said Star-Man.

I agree, if I was on a ship berthing at Fishermans Island i would not be happy. If we pulled up along side that I would not want to get off the ship.

[MsMinx]

It's a real shame that they won't allow the larger ships in! Have any of you been down to see the big ships that come in? HUNDREDS of peopole drive all the way down to park in a dust bowl parcel of land which is full of potholes, so they can stand on the water's edge and look at the big beautiful ships on the other side of the river!

 

They even get pie vans, hot dog vendors and Mr Whippy down there because it's always SO popular with the Brisbane general public! Think of all the money that would be pumped into the shops and cafes at Portside if all those people were stopping there for a coffee or a snack instead of the Mr Whippy van out in the middle of nowhere!

 

And with development the way it is, who's to say that in a few months' time when the QV does come to Brisbane, that everyone won't be turned away because our dust bowl parcel of land is now being built on? And then we have nothing!!

 

There's no easy way for the passengers on the ship to get to and from the ship down there either. No wonder people think Brisbane is just a large country town!!! Our government are puting us to shame with decisions like this!!

 

It's just crazy to think that they purpose built a cruise ship terminal, but don't use it to it's full capacity!!!

 

If any one wants to start up a partition on this DH and I will be only too happy to sign it!!

 

Phew, i'll get off my high horse now, i'm getting a headache up there! ;)

[Star-Man]

Well said Star-Man.

I agree, if I was on a ship berthing at Fishermans Island i would not be happy. If we pulled up along side that I would not want to get off the ship.

 

Well, my "cruising style" wouldnt suit being tied up that far out of town. In port, i prefer to just hop on and off the ship and take a look around by myself without booking shore tours. If i woke up and found the ship that far out of town and the only transport was several coaches in and out of a certain area, then i wouldnt be happy. It would mean that i wouldnt be getting off and spending my tourist dollars in port.

 

It's a real shame that they won't allow the larger ships in! Have any of you been down to see the big ships that come in? HUNDREDS of peopole drive all the way down to park in a dust bowl parcel of land which is full of potholes, so they can stand on the water's edge and look at the big beautiful ships on the other side of the river!

 

Last time i tried getting there with my dad, you couldnt actually get to the river. There was development everywhere and big fences stopping you getting anywhere to see anything.

[Kiwi Kruzer]

My husband and I believe they may have been stopped by a certain cruise line.!!! Some big money must have changed hands so I don't think it matters who you write too nothing will be done about it. !! Just my 2 cents worth :) Mummsie

 

Perhaps Portside was built only for use by P&O ships and others in The Carnival Group?

We have cruised into Brisbane and berthed

Norwegian Star....Sugar Factory.......ship shuttle to Brisbane.NO TAXIS

SuperStar Leo.....Fishermans Island.....nothing,very third world NO TAXIS

Pacific Princess....Pinkenbah.......isolated,TAXIS RATIONED

Oriana................Portside........BRILLIANT

[Riffraff]

I read the article too and I completely agree that this seems crazy. Portside is a great location and it’s so frustrating to have it there and not be able to see the big ships when they come in – not to mention for the passengers to have to be shuttled into town, which is quite a ride from Fishermans Island.

It’s also a bit ridiculous to impose a length restriction when longer ships have berthed there successfully. At 240m, that means that Sun Princess and Dawn Princess are too long to berth there – yet Sun Princess successfully negotiated the river to get into Cairncross just across from Portside.

I can understand when it’s a physical restriction, like the “pointy bits vs Gateway Bridge” problem. But this restriction seems a bit dodgy to me.

 

I don’t think a certain cruise line would be trying to stop the other ships coming – if money had to change hands it wouldn’t be very economical for them I wouldn’t think, and also other cruise lines still use Darling Harbour which offers much more ‘publicity’ for the other ships than Portside would. Also, if it was the case then The World wouldn’t have berthed there, or Black Watch.

But that’s just my thoughts.

 

I hope that something is done, and yes we’re happy to sign anything that needs signing to get something done!

 

I wonder though how strictly they stick to the 240m rule – Pacific Dawn is 247m long! Hopefully they’ll have got rid of the restriction by the time she vists here.

Good thing Pacific Sun is only 223m long.

 

I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised – the idea of a cruise terminal that can’t be used by ships is a very Queensland-sounding idea! (From the Smart State that brought you no daylight savings and the sun that rises ridiculously early.:D )

[gooch47]

I'm sorry to say that in all our cruises the rule seems to be to dock us at some out of the way commercial wharf instead of near anyplace reasonable. It happens all over the world.

 

But to have a decent place and just not allow ships to use it? Dumb.

[karmac]

I'm sorry to say that in all our cruises the rule seems to be to dock us at some out of the way commercial wharf instead of near anyplace reasonable. It happens all over the world.

 

But to have a decent place and just not allow ships to use it? Dumb.

 

Except in Sydney;) :D

 

Karen

[Kiwi Kruzer]

As Gooch says it happens all over the world ..... passengers are dumped off for the day at commercial ports.

Now I do not mind that,(for ports of call,)if it means that you get to see out of the way places that we may never get to .In fact it is great that the containerisation of some ports has allowed the larger cruise ships to have access.

But in Brisbanes case they have an excellent facility that should be available for all cruise ships to use.

As far as the apartment owners are concerned,I think that is a red herring.If I were to buy there it would be because of the excitement the ships bring to the area.In Auckland there are many apartments on Princes Wharf and a lot of the owners time their entertaining to when a ship is in port.

[bazzaw]

This "could " be a "furphy" - Sun Princess and Oriana are both booked to berth at Portside , and they are 260 metres.

 

Barry

[kaseyoz]

several of the nz ports are container ports which require a 30 min trip into the town.

i cant understand why they built it so small when the cruise industry is thriving especially with the bigger international ships.

 

we are lucky karen to have such a beautiful area to dock in, even darling harbour is ok

[AuzzieCruiser]

It was great docking in Freeport in the Bahamas. We docked at the Oil Refinery!!:eek: Not exactly the picture postcard people would expect!!:p Though the water was still Crystal Blue.

[arxcards]

clipped from an earlier post that sang the praises of Brisbane as a cruise port in comparison to Sydney.

 

Difference is, as appose to Sydney, Brisbane is a much nicer city to cruise from and nothing beats the Brisbane River!! It has it all, what does Sydney have? A bridge, opera house and rocks, how exciting!! :eek::eek:

..... and a harbour :p

Too right. And then when you sail into the channel and see how close the ship gets to Moreton Island and then Kings Beach at Caloundra.

Give me the river any day :rolleyes:

A river that is not wide enough to allow the larger cruise ships to turn and dock safely. For that a harbour much more suited.

 

Am sure Ian is frustrated, as his business is well placed to catch passing cruisers. Not great for business if Brisbane cruise visitors do not pass his shop. Brisbane should have a dedicated Port facility for cruise ships. I guess that a spot on the river where it is wider would have been a better option than Portside.

 

Cheers

Geoff

[Star-Man]

A river that is not wide enough to allow the larger cruise ships to turn and dock safely.

 

Although the article (and im pretty sure the portside website) state...

 

"When you've got a swing basin in the river that allows 399m, there's plenty of room for them to manoeuvre."

 

Seems like plenty of room there to swing around. The sun princess is going to be able to turn around when she leaves dry dock, so why cant the other ships do it?

 

Im not saying that hamilton wasnt a bad place for the terminal, it would have been better off being built in a million other places. But there is room there for larger ships to turn around and berth with no problems. Like has been said, the Oriana and Aurora both swung around and berthed safely at Portside earlier in the year, so why cant other ships do it?

 

I still remember the day when both anna bligh and beatie were asked where the QE2 was berthing and they both said Portiside. Just a tad embarrassing i think.

[Skyrules]

Brisbane should have a dedicated Port facility for cruise ships. I guess that a spot on the river where it is wider would have been a better option than Portside.

 

The location at Porstide is on about the widest point of the river. ships can't really get much further up stream of Portside, most of them would be too big to round the bend at Breakfast Creek.

 

When we went down to watch Pacific Star go into dry dock (to repair the NZ storm damage) there was a freighter much larger than most cruise ships being manouvered out of Cairncross to make way for Star and that ship didn't seem to have too much problem manouvering in the vicinity of Portside.

 

It was interesting to hear my godparents talk about their call in Brisbane on the Fairstar bound for England in 1972. They berthed at Fisherman's Island (then only a fairly new facility) and one of the passengers off the ship was hit by a a vehicle in the wharf area and was killed.

[gooch47]

I'm not sure how far up the river we are talking in Brisbane, but I've been to ports where the ship backed in for a long, long distance. They wouldn't even really have to turn around.

[Kiwi Kruzer]

On the Portside website

 

http://www.brisbanecruiseterminal.com.au/content/cms/Fees+and+Charges/172/

 

It quotes the max length as 285 metres.

Bit different from the Harbours 240 metres.

It is also interesting to work out how much it costs

for ships to berth there for the day.

 

35m to 70 M $13.18 per meter/day

70.5 to 90 M $14.43 per meter/day

90.5 to 120 M $19.92 per meter/day

120.5 to 150 M $23.98 per meter/day

150.5 to 200 M $25.12 per meter/day

200.5 to 250 M $25.98 per meter/day

250.5 to 285 M(max length) $30.88 per meter/day

Passenger Levies $3.90 per person

[cookieau]

Thanks for the article my wife and I are on QV2 next February and were looking forward to Brisbane where we were spending the day with relations..

Now sounds like will be an effort

Does anyone know if private cars can enter the wharf area ?

Or is it only shuttles to downtown

[MsMinx]

Thanks for the article my wife and I are on QV2 next February and were looking forward to Brisbane where we were spending the day with relations..

Now sounds like will be an effort

Does anyone know if private cars can enter the wharf area ?

Or is it only shuttles to downtown

 

They won't allow private cars to enter the area. We tried to drive by to see the Kitty Hawk when she was docked there and were turned away by security. The only vehicles that were being allowed in were those that were supposed to be there - supplying food etc to the Kitty Hawk or workers in the area.

 

It really is a disappointment that the larger ships won't be allowed in to Portside.

 

It does seem though, that they're cutting off their nose to spite their face, when they can get SO much extra money out of each ship based on the $$ per meter for berthing fees!!!

 

Why is it that the big ships (Sun Princess for example) can sail under the Gateway bridge, and do a nice easy turn around to back into dry dock, which is just on the other side of the river from Portside, but other ships carrying passengers who want to dock for 1 day only, can't??? :cool:

[aussiedisneyfan]

Just in case readers don't pick this up this thread as being related.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=654165

[mummsie]

There is another article in the "Prime" Section of the Courier this morning which basically says that Portside is being done up with extra facilities so that the Pacific Star can base itself there. What I though at the beginning - its basically a Carnival Terminal and no other ships are being given permission to tie up there. Other cruise lines do it - in Lankowie and Port Klang in Malaysia - Star cruises own the terminals and don't allow others to tie up. Not that it bothers us that much - we normally cruise out of Sydney anyway. Mummsie

[Riffraff]

There is another article in the "Prime" Section of the Courier this morning which basically says that Portside is being done up with extra facilities so that the Pacific Star can base itself there. What I though at the beginning - its basically a Carnival Terminal and no other ships are being given permission to tie up there.

 

I’m not so sure that’s the case. The article says –

 

..Multiplex has recently bought a 1.6ha parcel of land beside the first stage of the development from the Port of Brisbane Corporation for an undisclosed sum.

The new facilities, expected to be operational by next month, will include waiting lounges, baggage check-in and improved taxi and coach facilities.

The facilities will be used by the P&O’s 1950-passenger Pacific Sun, which will use the terminal as it’s base port. International transit ships will continue to use existing facilities.

 

I think they are referring to the fact that because it’s based there, the Pacific Sun’s passengers will be the ones who mainly use the baggage check-in and waiting lounges. International transit ships don’t need to use these, so they will continue to use the existing facilities at Portside. It doesn’t mean they won’t be able to call at Portside.

 

Sounds like it’s going to be a good improvement – I like the idea of a waiting lounge, and a better baggage check-in might make it easier as well. Not that it’s too bad at the moment, but it could be a bit better.

[Skyrules]

There is another article in the "Prime" Section of the Courier this morning which basically says that Portside is being done up with extra facilities so that the Pacific Star can base itself there. What I though at the beginning - its basically a Carnival Terminal and no other ships are being given permission to tie up there. Other cruise lines do it - in Lankowie and Port Klang in Malaysia - Star cruises own the terminals and don't allow others to tie up. Not that it bothers us that much - we normally cruise out of Sydney anyway. Mummsie

 

 

What I found intersting about this article was the claim that the terminal had been visited by 54 cruise ships in it's first year of operation. Technically (my pedantic nature is showing again :D ) it was used 54 times. Well over half of those visits would have been by Pacific Star. There certainly hasn't been 54 different ships come in.