Mexico: Saying No to cruise ships?

[Salty Dawg]

Noticed this interesting post on the Cruise Critic RCI boards...

 

Today, 04:01 PM

Hondu

Cool Cruiser

Join Date: Mar 2001

Posts: 12

 

 

Mexico: No to cruise ships

MEXICO CITY, Mexico (4 Sep 2004) -- A revolt is growing in the Caribbean over increasingly massive cruise ships disgorging thousands of passengers who swamp beach towns, buy perhaps a soda and a few trinkets, and re-embark a few hours later.

 

Mexico's government is considering charging the country's first per-passenger cruise tax, while beach towns that no longer want to serve as a mere backdrop for the $15 billion cruise industry are beginning to say no to the big ships.

 

http://www.cdnn.info/industry/i040904/i040904.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[catmand]

To be honest I doubt we will ever cruise out of FLA. so will not see the caribbean mexico (is there really such a place or did I just make that up?). We are leaving in 25 days for our second California Costal into Mexican cruise over the past 6 months. I guess if Cabo, P.V. and Mazatlan decide they do not want ship pax or they impose to great a tarrif we will just have to yawn as we pass them by................once again we can quote Groucho who said those terrific words "I would not care to join a club that would have me as a member."

Dawg, thanx for the link, and how are things in Michigan (an x detroiter here)

[isujim]

I guess if it get's too costly.........that 7 day cruise to nowhere might be closer to a reality.........(which I would love by the way)

[verwirrt]

Interesting reading - thanks for posting.

[sue d. miller]

I am with you, Jim. Again!!! :D

[kruisey]

The ship pays a fee to enter their port.The on shore excursions are not cheap to take...plus the trickets.They have more to loose.

Certainly would not miss the visit to Acapulco found it a very warm polluted ,overcrowded dirty place.Imagine it was once beautiful there....they should clean it up.Plus all the little children begging ,looking miserable in the streets,once is enough for me.

[lawgirl]

Thanks for the article. This may be an unpopular opinion, but I would be willing to pay a small tax per person per island IF I knew it went for environmental preservation. I agree that the various island economies benefit from all of the cruise passengers, but I have to wonder whether the majority of the money we spend goes to small businesses or tour companies. I have nothing against that, but the reason we go to these places is the scenery, weather, beaches, snorkling, etc. I would bet that most cruise passengers could afford $10 or $15 being added to the cost of the cruise to help protect the endangered coral reefs, fish, beaches, etc. It seems a fairly small price to pay to ensure that in 25 years there will still be nice beaches and reefs to go visit. Just my personal opinion.

[woodofpine]

And Blackjack Pershing wondered, "Why don't they love us!?". Frankly, the economics of cruise ships (vs. the stresses posed) is a tourism management topic throughout the Caribbean (even Key West). The Mexicans will be followed...

[spongerob]

I'm sure it is a contentious issue in many places. As the ships get larger and larger, the shore facilities are having a more difficult time providing the facilities to handle the increasing number of passengers. Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. Still, don't we as passengers already pay port fees in addition to bringing in plenty of revenue? I see this being very similar to the daily fees imposed by local municipalities on hotel rooms. Ostensibly these are to cover the cost of services that might be required by visitors, but in reality it is simply a means to tax travelers to subsidize local government while avoiding the politically sensitive issue of taxing the local population.

 

Can you imagine the hue and cry if the US government imposed an "entry fee" on all visitors from overseas?

[bardgal]

The overcrowding is one of the main reasons I have no desire to go back to the Caribbean at this time on a cruise ship. They are all so massive now, and most ports seem to have more than one of these behemoths in port on any given day. That's 5k pax plus crew in a tiny port. Not my idea of tranquillity on a quiet beach.

[woodofpine]

I'm sure State is collecting something for the Visas - and yes we require visas of most... Try coming here without one from the Carib!

I can't blame them - our ships dump thousands ashore for a few drinks and thrinkets...

 

Here in Florida we've learned "Call it paradise, and it's gone". So if the locals hit the line traveler $10-15/pp that's $50-100 per 7-10 day cruise - what a better world, or not? Heck - double it and your ship will be better and more fully staffed, the Maitre'ds will Toss the informal/casual ones on Formal night... Chair hogs will be bacon... and will anyone be worse for it... Honestly, a well distributed 10% base line boost would be good all the way around...

[Suncat]

I hope they don't stop going to Caribbean Mexico, it's soooooo much nicer than Cabo!! If you haven't been to Cozumel - you are missing beautiful beaches and great snorkeling! You cannot snorkel in Cabo, it's too rough of waters - we tried snorkeling in Cabo and it was a joke. You don't have to sail out of Florida to go there either... You can sail from Galveston, TX!!!!;)

[Jacqueline]

I think the answer lies in BALANCE. 10 mega ships at one time in Cozumel is horrendous, for example. But it is up to these TOWNS to legislate appropriate passenger loads that they can handle and that will benefit them without oo many negative impacts, environmental or otherwise.

Forbes just had a big article on cruising in Alaska. Basically the same thing happened in Haines. The ships pulled pulled outand now they are in an economic depression with half the teachers being let go. They are now begging for the ships to return.

I think it also makes the experience better for the cruiser when the little town is not overrun with thousands of people ! There are something like 50 ports in the Carribean- the lines have to get a little smarter !

Personally I cant wait for Fidel to pass onto his ultimate reward so that we can visit Cuba instead of sailing around it ! Just imagine

PS I am the chair of the Planning board in my town- its all about planning for appropriate economic returns without despoiling the nature of the place that creates the desire to visit !

[elliair]

I don't care if I get off the ship at any of the ports cruising to Mexico. I've been there many times, saw it all, and what trinkets do I really need? You stand in line to be herded off like a bunch of pack rats, so what's so fun about that? We're cruising in January to Mexico, I might take advantage of the discounted spa treatments then.:p Or have the gym all to myself......be waited on in the diner, kick back and enjoy the ship.......ahhhh yes!

[NASH99]

:D :eek:

The mighty dollar always wins. :( They will take it to the next stop / port.

[karen_cpa]

very interesting article. i found this line particularly interesting, although not really shocking:

 

"And the stores that line cruise docks are often owned or leased by the cruise companies themselves."

 

there are so many islands in the Caribbean, it baffles the mind that every cruise line goes to the same 10 or 20! how many times can you stop in Grand Cayman or Ochos Rios????

[Globaliser]

And as I said elsewhere - although cruise ship passengers spend a lot of money, how much of it actually goes into the islands. By the time the cruise line has siphoned off a whopping great commission on its own shore excursions, and from the shops recommended by it, and by the time you discount the shops owned by offshore companies that take the cash out straight away, how much really goes into the local economy?

 

That's the real question, and I don't think we can assume that it's very much at all.

[Northender]

I don't care if I get off the ship at any of the ports cruising to Mexico. I've been there many times, saw it all, and what trinkets do I really need? You stand in line to be herded off like a bunch of pack rats, so what's so fun about that? We're cruising in January to Mexico, I might take advantage of the discounted spa treatments then.:p Or have the gym all to myself......be waited on in the diner, kick back and enjoy the ship.......ahhhh yes!

 

elliair, I agree.:) We actually cancelled one of our excursions to stay on the ship while in Mexico. At our first port in Mexico, Majuahal (sp) it was obvious to most that the "town" was built by the cruise lines. Now I have no problem with that as it provides jobs. I did buy a trinket and some Carib Vanilla. On the other hand, I pay to enjoy the "cruise" and be sure to take advantage of the specials on port days. You can enjoy the pool, read, have a drink or two or three, have a nice massage and then watch as they stagger, er return to the ship. :) If there are other cruise lines there with you, it is fun to see who takes on the last passenger. Princess won in Cozumel (LOL)

 

The resorts in many of the Eastern Carib keep a list of how many ships are in port any particular day. The less ships (or none, on ocassion) makes it easy for everyone to head to town on those days. Believe me, the locals who have businesses near the dock areas are only too happy to welcome the cruisers with open arms.;)

 

Globalizer - that is why I like when upcoming cruisers ask questions about certain ports. I can speak very well for St. Martin, St. Thomas and St. John.

It is only my opinion, however. I know Host Chris found a great stop just off the ship in St. Martin. I never go with what the ship says, they do get a comission - it is so stated in the Patter. :rolleyes:

[DesrtDrmr]

I, too, would be willing to pay a small amount toward an "environmental fund" at each island. Some of the less developed islands are so wonderful to see, while St Thomas, and Nassau, with eight ships in port, is a crowded zoo, where we just dont get off of the ship.

The kicker of my willingness to pay this additional fee, would be if it were collected as I got OFF the ship, on that particular island, and paid it directly to some governmental eco active agency, maybe got a gold star in return, to show I did my part, and only had to pay if I did get off the ship. I don't think that this should be a cruise collected fee...............too many middlemen before the money would really help the local citizenry.

On the other hand, I am not willing to pay 35-50 dollars, per port, for the privilege of going there.........I'll stay on the ship, thanks, and enjoy the quiet with my fellow shipmates. :cool:

[deadbug]

When we docked at Panama last year, we paid for a taxi driver to drive us around all day...we learned so much from hin about his country, it's people and the economy. He explained to us how little the people benefit from the cruise ships that come into port. In his words "the cruise boats tell it's passengers it is dangerous and they should only take the shop excursions...the ship tells you to shop in certain areas/shops, and these shops/areas are in part owned by the cruise lines or they are owned by the wealthy that can afford to pay off the cruise lines fot their business" These people are very poor (but happy!!!)...they feel as though they should get some sort of benefit fro all of this tourism...but, as usual, seems that the working stiff can't get a peice of the action unless he is a taxi driver. (our driver can't afford to own a car, so he rents one on the days ships come in to port. If he gets no passengers, he still has to pay for the day rental..if he does get passengers, half of what he makes still goes to the owner of the taxi!!!

[susiesan]

I long ago figured out to never book ship excursions. You can usually find the exact same vendors yourself on the internet, make your own reservation with them, and pay them directly. Or use a local company who competes with the one the cruise line uses. In Puerta Vallarta in April we wanted to do a canopy tour. There are 2 companies there who do them. One would not take our reservation as they had an agreement with the cruise line (HAL) not to take the pax on their own. So we used the other company. It was fabulous. we heard from others who used the ship tour that ours was so much better and we each saved $20.

 

If there is a cruise ship in port there will always be taxi drivers. They will always take you on your own small group tour for half of being herded onto a bus. 99.9% of these people are trying to make a living, not rip you off. I've been told by cruise line employees that they use the unsafe line as a scare tactic so you'll buy excursions from them at the hefty markups they extract.

 

So to support the local economies, do your homework and make your own bookings with the owners of the local businesses. Even the littlest guy has a web site and takes credit cards these days.

[BigDoug]

Here is a link to an article that was referenced on the Carnival board. Carnival is trying to build a dock and the local government officials are trying their best to extort much higher port taxes than allowed by the Mexican government.

http://www.ecotravelernews.com/Expand.asp?NewsID=15

[MiamiNicole]

I live in Mexico City, my BF is Mexican. Unfortunetly if the Mexican government asks for higher taxes it is for their own interest (not to improve the ports or the poor), there is so much corruption in the government here.

 

The places cruise ships dock are helpful in some respects for the struggling locals in Guerrero & La Costa Maya (in the short-run), but these mega ships will really take their tole in a few years. Just look at Cancun...15 years ago it was a peaceful beautiful beach, now that most of our American chains and Spring Breakers have come through it looks more like a dirty Las Vegas. And the majority of the big money is going to the wealthy, the richer are getting much richer and the poor are barley improving their situation.

 

Acapulco actually has some beautiful parts (Las Brisas), but these are the homes of wealthy Mexico City residents, the people the people who are asking for the ships that dock in their country to pay more taxes.

 

Sorry having a pessamistic day! Happy Cruising.

[MadBrewer]

..... how much really goes into the local economy?

 

That's the real question, and I don't think we can assume that it's very much at all.

 

My friend went on a diving holiday to Cozumel. He informs me that on 'Port Days' the resturants hike their prices as do other shops just because they know they can get away with it. Despite some islanders not baing happy about the situation I expect an equal number would hate the loss of income if the ships stopped? Maybe a year of altered itineraries to bypass the complaining ports would be a good thing, if some of the other/ unused ports benefitted instead?

 

Also even if the cruise companies do own the shops (not something I 'like' the thought of) I bet the stipulation is that the locals get to work there?

[SeattleCruiselover]

Noticed this interesting post on the Cruise Critic RCI boards...

 

Alaska has had a $50+ per person head tax for several years now. Doesn't seem to have changed things too much for them--either in the number of ships (though RCI will be pulling one in 2010, but that doesn't have anything to do with a head tax, more with a Glacier Bay cruising permit), nor in the number of pax who "gladly" pay it and head on up there every year.

 

Don't imagine it will make all that much change in Mexico either. While those towns are making those comments now, you can bet they will take the pax' money right back when their economy suffers if they ban the ships.