Patron Protection ???

[goldengrain]

My husband and I are involved in an attempt to move to Seattle, which we are hoping will be complete in mid year. We will then be retired and are considering trying a cruise.

 

Naturally, we are gathering information as we come across it.

 

A glaring concern are all those reality tv offerings which site patrons suffering severe medical problems and crime and sometimes death onboard.

 

The articles usually say that people somehow assume US laws apply, but they do not. The main law is the captain, who usually moves to prevent other patrons from knowing there is a problem and to shut up the wronged party.

 

These are well known cruise lines acting in such a manner, all spoken about regularly on this board(though I do not remember HAL being mentioned).

 

For medical problems the cruise lines seem well insulated and because much of their offerings are subcontracted it offers them a way to pass the buck to the actual service provider. Doctors, they say, get free transport in exchange for services.

 

One line, after a death/murder claim, just spiffied up the room and put the ship out to work, destroying evidence in the process.

 

A question was raised concerning crew members not having adequate backround checks and some had criminal records.

 

Some people had health problems and falls and were told it would heal on its own, not having adequate diagnostic staff or equipment on board. The ships refused to fly the patients to someplace on shore where they could get help and irreparable damage was done to them because of this.

 

The doctors cannot be located.

The ships have no legal responsibility.

 

It seems as though the ads for cruises promise wonderful things, but if something goes wrong you can quickly turn into a victim, and the first thing 'they' seem instructed to do is to blame the injured party, as though they asked to be hurt.

 

From reading this board, I see some posters tending to do the same thing, almost as though they are employees of a public relations function for the industry.

 

Saying these experiences rarely happen is like saying that most children do not become autistic from vaccines. If it is your child, it becomes your whole world.

 

I would think that a person taking a cruise, especially up in age, would try to be sure that essentials like health and knowing your legal rights were established before sampling the icing on the cake, the hopefully happy and satisfying cruise experience.

 

Is there some place a person can look for information on the guarantees of cruise lines concerning theft, safety, health concerns? If something does happen and a person requests being flown to shore what is the line obligation to do so? Is it true that everything is at the captains discretion?

[LHT28]

You can check each cruise lines contract

http://www.hollandamerica.com/policies/cruise.do

 

Bad things happen everywhere ...be sure to buy good medical/evacuation insurance.

With the thousands of people that cruise monthly the reports of problems are minimal in comparison.

Not saying you should not worry but you can get overly cautious and not have an enjoyable time.

 

 

If people worried about all those things they should never leave the house

[jannandjohn]

As someone else said to you in reply to another of your posts(different thread)....but similar writings.

a cruise is not for you

..you would find fault in every detail.!!:p

 

ps..you are missing out on the best holiday ever,being ruled by your miserable thoughts

[cb at sea]

Buy travel/medical insurance, and then go and have fun! Anything can happen anywhere. Just because you're on a cruise doesn't mean doom will befall you!

I understand what you're saying: When it happens to you, it's your whole world--but the odds are totally AGAINST anything happening to you! Hell, you could be struck by an uninsured motorist tomorrow---and that would suck big-time! Bad things happen, but you can't let the fear of it ruin today! Research the cruiseline you want, buy the insurance and go on vacation!

[goldengrain]

As someone else said to you in reply to another of your posts(different thread)....but similar writings.

a cruise is not for you

..you would find fault in every detail.!!:p

 

ps..you are missing out on the best holiday ever,being ruled by your miserable thoughts

 

I am so surprised at this negative and judgemental response in respect to my honest question.

 

One might think you are somehow renumerated by the cruise industry.

This board should be here to air legitimate concerns of patrons, and not as some sort of public relations for the industry.

 

So, are you telling me that there really are no laws governing what happens onboard once a person is out of the national boundaries?

 

Your defensiveness and refusal to address these issues underscores the real problems a person can run into by cruising.

 

What sort of people would be so nasty?

[goldengrain]

Buy travel/medical insurance, and then go and have fun! Anything can happen anywhere. Just because you're on a cruise doesn't mean doom will befall you!

I understand what you're saying: When it happens to you, it's your whole world--but the odds are totally AGAINST anything happening to you! Hell, you could be struck by an uninsured motorist tomorrow---and that would suck big-time! Bad things happen, but you can't let the fear of it ruin today! Research the cruiseline you want, buy the insurance and go on vacation!

 

Thank you for not being nasty. I think some people on this board are getting renumeration by the cruise industry, and I wish I knew more about them so I could avoid their recommendations.

 

My point is that there is usually some law protecting people, but on the seas it looks as though this is not the case, so -

 

Do you think one of the luxury lines, like Cunard, might have better medical personnel and security (cameras, etc)?

 

Airlines seem to be very concerned with safety concerns of passengers, but cruise lines almost seem to hide this information.

 

Cunard, I have read, recommends not to tip because their people are well paid. This has the implication that they may vet their personnel better than some lines do.

 

To tell you where I am coming from, we are retiring and one of the critieria that I am using for screening a community is its crime rate. So, when we started thinking about a cruise, I naturally wanted to see if one cruise line is 'safer' than the next, who screens employees, has the lowest theft rate, medical complaints, etc. Nada.

 

Are there lines like this one, that have better provisons, and how would I know that?

 

Is insurance backed by the line or by insurance companies? Who determines that a person should be removed from the ship due to medical problems? On the incident I saw it was the doctor, who ended up being terribly wrong and created a disaster for the poor woman.

 

Would it not be wise to err on the side of conservatism and lift a person off if she requests it because she wants her own doctors? If she has insurance, is this decision up to her?

 

The only reason I am focusing on this is that I can get no information at all, which I find peculiar.

[LHT28]

all cruiselines have a passenger contract available online for you to view

 

Most cruiselines the captain is the law aboard.

If the medical staff feel a passenger is in need of medical care they cannot deal with onboard they will recommend they be taken to the nearest hospital...many times they cannot be airlifted from the ship or get to a port so they must wait until closer to shore & have someone take them off.

 

I am sure if they are in a port & the patient wants to go home to their own doctor they can make the arrangements (at their expense)

All insurance policies are different so you must read the fine print.

 

All ships have security & cameras ....

 

I think you will find problems on most cruise lines if you are looking.

 

 

I am not sure if you can get information on the statistics you are looking for but if you have a "fredom of information " section for cruise ships you could try there.

 

We found the doctors on the cruise ships to be very good.

[wyaz]

What these people are saying to you is their anonymous opinion. That modifier (anonymous) is especially appropriate when you consider the truisms:

 

"You get what you pay for." or, "It is not worth the paper it is printed on."

 

The only people who can truly answer your legal questions are well qualified international law attorneys or maritime attorneys. They can only answer your questions in generalities. They can advise you as to your rights best after your problem has occured and you can give them specific facts. Even then their opinion is still just an educated opinion. If some of the CC members tell you that they are well qualified attorneys in either of those fields, and you believe them, I have some very valuable swamp land in Florida or a bridge in Brooklyn that I want to sell you at a special bargain price designed for very cautious investors such as yourself.

 

Your problem is you are asking for information from a source that will never satisfy you. That is always one of the worst places to obtain information. Each posting is subjective. I have never read any of your postings before but you seem overly sensitive to what is being said here. These are people who blatantly discuss (as do I) any manner of things like smuggling liquor on board, finding the cheapest hotels and rental cars, how good, bad or indifferent the food is on each cruise line, how good the excursions sold by the cruise lines or private operators are, crime in the Caribbean, and any number of other things. Everybody has an opinion! It is often opined here that cruisers should travel with an open mind and not allow the good or bad or indifferent opinion of any other traveler to influence whether or not they enjoy a cruise but to form their own opinion as it happens.

 

Airlines do nothing to look out for the security of the passengers, the TSA does that. When you fly, you are in a small enclosed space from which there is nowhere to run and nowhere to hide (uness your name is D. B. Cooper). The arilines will sell liquor to other passengers which tends to make them less safe.

 

That being said, there are security problems and crime problems every where. You have to do all the research you can (this may include asking the CC members) and you absolutely must obtain expert opinions. These expert opinions usually cost big bucks. Depending on where you live (it would be unusual to find maritime attorneys in several areas in the center of the USA), you may have trouble finding the right attorneys. Seattle (the place where you are attempting to move) might be a good place as it is a place where a lot of international shipping takes place and it is a cruise port.

 

You will not obtain particularly valuable answers here, just a number of thoughtful and not so thoughtful opinions of people who have done no cruising, little cruising or a great deal of cruising. Those answers will be based on their experience as their expertise or some throw away answer , meant to amuse them and annoy you (you do seem to be annoyed easily), but you need other kinds of answers.

 

Cruising may not be for you based on your level of being uncomfortable with the unknown. Cruising and traveling involves going to new places and trying new things.

[wyaz]

I went back and read your original question! I attach with responses supplied. I also attach your response to another thread with responses supplied.

 

My husband and I are involved in an attempt to move to Seattle, which we are hoping will be complete in mid year. We will then be retired and are considering trying a cruise.

 

Naturally, we are gathering information as we come across it.

 

A glaring concern are all those reality tv offerings which site patrons suffering severe medical problems and crime and sometimes death onboard.

 

The articles usually say that people somehow assume US laws apply, but they do not. The main law is the captain, who usually moves to prevent other patrons from knowing there is a problem and to shut up the wronged party.

 

Reality shows are shows if you believe everything you see you are in trouble.

These are well known cruise lines acting in such a manner, all spoken about regularly on this board(though I do not remember HAL being mentioned).

 

For medical problems the cruise lines seem well insulated and because much of their offerings are subcontracted it offers them a way to pass the buck to the actual service provider. Doctors, they say, get free transport in exchange for services.

 

Again if this info obtained from reality shows it is worthless.

 

One line, after a death/murder claim, just spiffied up the room and put the ship out to work, destroying evidence in the process.

 

Again if this info obtained from reality shows it is worthless.

 

A question was raised concerning crew members not having adequate backround checks and some had criminal records.

 

Again if this info obtained from reality shows it is worthless.

 

Some people had health problems and falls and were told it would heal on its own, not having adequate diagnostic staff or equipment on board. The ships refused to fly the patients to someplace on shore where they could get help and irreparable damage was done to them because of this.

 

The doctors cannot be located.

The ships have no legal responsibility.

 

Again if this info obtained from reality shows it is worthless.

 

It seems as though the ads for cruises promise wonderful things, but if something goes wrong you can quickly turn into a victim, and the first thing 'they' seem instructed to do is to blame the injured party, as though they asked to be hurt.

 

Where did you obtain this information?

 

From reading this board, I see some posters tending to do the same thing, almost as though they are employees of a public relations function for the industry.

 

Saying these experiences rarely happen is like saying that most children do not become autistic from vaccines. If it is your child, it becomes your whole world.

 

The scientific community does say that children do not become autistic from vaccines. It has not been shown this happens in any double blind studies.

 

I would think that a person taking a cruise, especially up in age, would try to be sure that essentials like health and knowing your legal rights were established before sampling the icing on the cake, the hopefully happy and satisfying cruise experience.

 

Every adult who cruises should do this!

 

Is there some place a person can look for information on the guarantees of cruise lines concerning theft, safety, health concerns? If something does happen and a person requests being flown to shore what is the line obligation to do so? Is it true that everything is at the captains discretion?

goldengrain

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You apparently answered this question in your response on another thread! See below.

 

We have never been on a cruise and were thinking of it.

 

So, we've been reading around a bit, just to fish for ideas and concerns.

 

Fishing in reality shows or CC boards is just that fishing not critical research!

 

First of all, if a company is using things like the pottery making and spa services in its ads, I think it should darn well better have them up and functioning.

 

Cruises are not cheap, and people should expect what they pay for.

 

The exact same thing applies to advice, expect what you pay for!

 

People who go on cruises are buying into a trouble free and pampering experience. A step back into their childhood with no responsibilities and a mommy and daddy to fix any problem that comes along.

 

The verbage in the ads seem to encourage that idea.

 

Almost no one who posts on these boards expects to be pampered or a step back into their childhoods. Very few expect trouble free. While I enjoy traveling with parents or in-laws it is not my first choice nor do I want the crew to act like my "mommy or daddy."

 

They get away with this garbage because in reality once you are on a cruise, you can easily be their vicitim. There are no US laws to protect you. The captain is the law. This answers your original question. The captain is the law! If you already know this (you must as you are talking about cruise lines getting away with garbage and others easily becoming victims and there being no U.S. Laws to protect you. There is international law, maybe you should call the International Court in the Hague!

 

Again if this info obtained from reality shows it is worthless.

 

They know this, and to protect themselves further they will subcontract out for things like spa service. Even medical personnel are often transient and unreachable after a cruise.

 

Again if this info obtained from reality shows it is worthless.

 

So, when you put your very lives in the care of these people, which you are really doing, I would think they would bend over backwards to avoid bad will of passangers.

 

What does putting your life in their hands have to do with this? Bending over backwards to promote good will is a must for any business.

 

This board almost appears to me to be partially finance or run by a cruise lobbying group. I have been on boards in which one person would sign on under different names and pretend they were a 'group' to stifle legitimate debate.

 

How could you possibly know this? If you really believe this, why are you still here?

 

I do not by into the idea that regular members of the public would be here, just looking for ways to stifle dissent by a disgruntled cruiser. So, from now on, I will attach more credence to complainers and less to the defensive guys.

 

We all need to know which category fits you, so that we can act accordingly!

 

I would like to know what legal protections and assurances people have

when they are on a cruise.

 

 

Please see earlier response!

 

 

You should also proof read for typos and/or spelling and grammatical errors.

[jannandjohn]

One might think you are somehow renumerated by the cruise industry.

This board should be here to air legitimate concerns of patrons, and not as some sort of public relations for the industry.

 

he he...I'm a 58 yr old hairdresser, and my husband a 72 yr old cabbie!!!

 

Originally Posted by goldengrain...This board almost appears to me to be partially finance or run by a cruise lobbying group. I have been on boards in which one person would sign on under different names and pretend they were a 'group' to stifle legitimate debate

 

try doing that and see how long you last on here!

 

Originally Posted by goldengrain My husband and I are involved in an attempt to move to Seattle

BTW..here's the stats on Seattle...boy, these will give you something to think about!! http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Seattle&state=WA

 

here's a forum on where I live....but I'm not a pom.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=285839