How long before the economy takes its toll?

[localady]

I agree with you and definitely do not want this to happen either. I hate traveling far and living in Las Vegas flights to the West Coast is the easiest but the fact is that HAL is pulling out the Oosterdam. I also understand Princess will have less West Coast Sailings. There are a few reasons for this 1. US travelers are not spending the money they were spending before. Yes, many of us want to stay here on the West Coast but most do not spend big money once they get on the ship like they use to. Onboard profits are down where at one time the Mexican Riviera was a big money maker for all areas. If the profits are not there they move the ship to areas where onboard spending is still high. The 2nd BIG reason for less ships sailing from the West Coast is while there will be less ships there will not be less berths. Royal Caribbean is bringing over Explorer of the Seas with a passenger count of 3114 ++ then you have Carnival going Head to head, or should I say Bow To Bow with their Carnival Splendor with total passenger capacity of 3734. That is almost 7000 berths to fill. Granted those of us that love HAL would prefer to not sail either of these cruise lines but sadly we are a very very small percentage. HAL can move their ships like the Oosterdam to places like South America and double and triple the prices of each cabin and fill them up whith passengers that can afford to sail to these places spend far more on board, giving HAL far more profits.

While it saddens me and may force me to cruise another cruiseline, I can understand their thinking and just hope the economy moves to a more positive direction that will have the cruiselines rethink the positioning of their ships.

 

Me too Lisa.

I know we are going to miss the 'O' on the Mex Riviera and we don't like the alternatives. Logically, I understand why HAL did it, just it sure leaves a major void on the West Coast. :o

[Elaine237]

What concerns me as much as anything is a substantial increase in corporate bankruptcies. I have noticed a couple of people saying that they saved money and invested wisely, so they are ok. If they are dependent on a corporate pension, they may not be. Dumping pension plans in bankruptcy is losing whatever political ramification it once had since virtually no one left in private (i.e. non-government) employment has access to a traditional pension plan anymore. I don't know that the prognosticators are right, but most large law firms are busy beefing up their bankruptcy sections. I live in a pretty decent economy, in large part oil and gas fueled; and I have seen a substantial increase in calls from people with failed businesses.

 

This is not a point in time to take any income stream for granted, and a serious round of corporate bankruptcies could hurt HAL worse than we expect.

 

Elaine

Norman, OK

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

Marle7,

 

No, neither said where the bookings were coming from, although I suspect Europe is the answer. More and more Americans I talk to do not want the fiasco of flying very far which is why many of us are looking to West Coast departures more often.

 

Barbara

[barante]

Cruising offers, by far in my book, the best value possible. For example, we are going to take a westbound trans-Atlantic from Venice to Fort Lauderdale in October. We booked a balcony cabin at $2,500 pp., but then it dropped to $2,000. For 18 days! Plus transatlantic air to Venice is $525 pp. and from FLL to BWI $99 pp.

That's a pretty unbeatable European vacation, don't you think. Except for Lisbon, we do all our own tours. We don't eat expernsive meals ashore, so our land costs are minimal.

We do all this defensively, i.e. book well in advance. The next cruise will be from Fort Lauderdale to Buenos Aires, an inside at $1,499 for 17 days, plus $1,000 for Carnival air. Another unbeatable deal.

Some things are obvious: Cruise lines are global megacorporations and becoming even more so. With many 3,000+ passenger ships now in operation and 5,000 passenger vessels soon to come they will have to market cruises worldwide. This will lead to a totally different passenger mix, a finetuning of menus and entertainment and announcements in several languages. Lots of Americans are likely to complain (if one uses the recent discussion about RCI "immersion" policy as a yardstick).

The capacity will also be deployed in a totally different way. The European segment is still in infancy. I am not talking so much about itineraries as about the European passenger market. Some lesser known lines offer bare-bones cruises, with only breakfast and dinner included. Everything else is extra. Towels and appointments are not first rate. Compared with this, the "American" lines offer a superior experience and can charge accordingly and still offer Europeans, enjoying strong euro, pound, ruble, a good deal.

However, if the dollar continues to slide, Americans eventually also have to pay more, or face cutbacks in standards. There is no other way. As it is now, foreigners on "American" ships already pay far more than U.S. cruisers.

If this happens, you may see more clear price/quality differentiation among the leading lines.

We like Holland America. But, then, we have never had a bad cruise. Norwegian is not great but it's quite allright. It all depends on the itinerary and price.

[mikjr]

but the fact is that HAL is pulling out the Oosterdam. I also understand Princess will have less West Coast Sailings.

 

Does the fact that both HAL and Princess are reducing West Coasts departures smell fishy to anyone? Let me throw out a conspiracy theory....

Since Carnival now owns both, do you think they want to boost their bookings on the Carnival brand? Personally, I have cruised Carnival and don't care for how they do things, and probably wouldn't book a cruise with Carnival again... UNLESS... they were the only ship at the dock!!

Why would they do that you say?? I don't know... BUT,

it's just a thought...

[ginagirl]

Does the fact that both HAL and Princess are reducing West Coasts departures smell fishy to anyone? Let me throw out a conspiracy theory....

 

Since Carnival now owns both, do you think they want to boost their bookings on the Carnival brand? Personally, I have cruised Carnival and don't care for how they do things, and probably wouldn't book a cruise with Carnival again... UNLESS... they were the only ship at the dock!!

 

Why would they do that you say?? I don't know... BUT,

it's just a thought...

Let's face it - Carnival has a huge monopoly in the cruise marketplace; and as such, they are in an excellent position to influence and drive the market wherever and whenever they wish. So the fact that we are seeing so many different U.S. homeports being affected and diminished is of no surprise. The Europeans are paying substantially more than us;:eek: and for the most part, they are not as picky and demanding as we are. Afterall, we have been spoiled in the past with the way cruise lines use to be. I truly believe California as a port state has always been a stepchild in the cruise industry; and just possibly, we haven't seen nothing yet!!! I sincerely hope I'm wrong, since we have become sick of flying. And when the airline tickets cost as much or more than the cruise, something has to give. We'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes out.

[chasetf]

What concerns me as much as anything is a substantial increase in corporate bankruptcies. I have noticed a couple of people saying that they saved money and invested wisely, so they are ok. If they are dependent on a corporate pension, they may not be. Dumping pension plans in bankruptcy is losing whatever political ramification it once had since virtually no one left in private (i.e. non-government) employment has access to a traditional pension plan anymore. I don't know that the prognosticators are right, but most large law firms are busy beefing up their bankruptcy sections. I live in a pretty decent economy, in large part oil and gas fueled; and I have seen a substantial increase in calls from people with failed businesses.

 

This is not a point in time to take any income stream for granted, and a serious round of corporate bankruptcies could hurt HAL worse than we expect.

 

Elaine

Norman, OK

I agree with what you say.... and as someone who has a private corporate pension, I can agree if it went away it would hurt. That is why it is important to diversify. My pension is just one "leg" of my retirement... and if it disappeared it would hurt but we could still make it on the other "legs"..

 

Anyone that puts all their eggs in one basket needs to think about it and replan..........or pray their basket does not fall apart. :eek:

[chasetf]

What concerns me as much as anything is a substantial increase in corporate bankruptcies. ................................

Elaine Norman, OK

Probably more scarier is the prospect of municipal bankruptcies. Vallejo, CA is one of the latest. The mortgage problems have pushed many municipal governments to the brink, but there are more black clouds in the future based on the sweet contracts politicians have handed out to the unions.

 

Those costs will be and are coming due. It used to be a public employee worked for less than their corporate counterpart.... but got a sweeter retirement. Unions have been able to push their members wages to par with corporate America.... and not give back on the benefits. Somewhere the rubber has to (and currently is) meeting the road. Somethings got to give because the tax payer cannot keep carrying the load.

[JimVrhovac]

HAL has styopped using New York, Baltimore, and Mobile (?) because there was not sufficinet business to make these ports profitable. Don't blame HAL as it was a pure marketing decision.

 

They made these ports available so passangers would not have to fly great distances but they never filled the ships out of these ports....

 

Not a conspiricy, just reality

 

Ruth & Jim

[happy cruzer]

I think alot of it is the "Tale of two Cruises". Those folks who shell out for the more expensive cabins are not getting the amenities outside of the cabin that they look for. Those who book the "cheap seats" i.e inside cabins are getting a great deal. Remember on most ships we all share the public areas and food. I'm an inside booker and pretty much very happy. When things slow down insides get cheaper but the scarcer cabins stay pretty firm in pricing.

 

I notice cut backs but I also notice good changes too. If a business does not change with the times, it will not make it. Princess will still have many cruises on the West Coast, I'm looking at 2009 out of San Fransico.

[Cruzman]

HAL has styopped using New York, Baltimore, and Mobile (?) because there was not sufficinet business to make these ports profitable. Don't blame HAL as it was a pure marketing decision.

 

They made these ports available so passangers would not have to fly great distances but they never filled the ships out of these ports....

 

Not a conspiricy, just reality

 

Ruth & Jim

 

I can only recall HAL sailing once from the port of Mobile. That was the old Noordam after a refurb in a drydock there; and it was a repositioning cruise at that. If HAL actually home ported a ship there today, I have no doubt that it would be highly successful!

[Williebill]

fair question

 

so lets get to the point

 

IMHO, inferior means less than existed before

 

HAL today is not the HAL of 5 years ago .. there are fewer dining room stewards, fewer menu selections, fewer hot appetizers before dinner, fewer flowers .. and, let's not forget elimination of the captain's Welcome Aboard Party and elimination of the traditional Mariners Society Party

 

what's really interesting though is this: mediocrity now seems to be the theme for the "Carnival Family of Ships" .. instead of letting HAL be HAL, Costa be Costa, Princess be Princess, Cunard be Cunard and Carnival be Carnival to name a few, the "heads" now think tossing everything into a salad bowl is far better than than letting each cruise line keep and improve upon what made it the product that it was

 

in a nutshell, today's HAL is inferior to what it was 5 years ago

 

if HAL is to continue to exist (let alone thrive in this economic state), it's time Seattle figured out one simple truth: now is not the time to cut back .. it is the time to at least maintain the status quo

 

I too think that Carnival Corp. should allow the different cruise lines under their umbrella to maintain their own personalities!

Bill

[u4ea]

Interesting article regarding the OP’s question of “how long?”

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/business/242597.php

It seems oil will only go up.

I wonder if HAL will serve gruel for all meals as a cutback.:rolleyes:;)

Mark…

[mamaofami]

HAL has styopped using New York, Baltimore, and Mobile (?) because there was not sufficinet business to make these ports profitable. Don't blame HAL as it was a pure marketing decision.

 

They made these ports available so passangers would not have to fly great distances but they never filled the ships out of these ports....

 

Not a conspiricy, just reality

 

Ruth & Jim

 

 

The Noordam, sailing from NYC, was always filled to capacity, but it seems from what people have said (I never checked it out myself) that they cut prices in order to fill the ship.

[gregdude]

I have another take on this situation. Many of us on the East coast are upset over the lack of HAL ships (except Boston) over here. But my guess is that this will change in the very near future. The fact that Carnival has moved a ship from Europe to Baltimore for year round cruises is the first indication. Fuel prices will impact Airline fares, particularly going over to Europe. People, like me, will simply stop cruising if it requires long costly flights. Eventually, and possibly soon, HAL and other will start to see the market shrink and realize the bread basket may be in the North East and Mid Atlantic. We shall see, but I hope I am right.

[Roz]

I think the Corps of Engineers should dredge the entire length of the Mississippi River so that us inland folks can sail from a homeport. :D

 

Roz

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I have another take on this situation. Many of us on the East coast are upset over the lack of HAL ships (except Boston) over here. But my guess is that this will change in the very near future. The fact that Carnival has moved a ship from Europe to Baltimore for year round cruises is the first indication. Fuel prices will impact Airline fares, particularly going over to Europe. People, like me, will simply stop cruising if it requires long costly flights. Eventually, and possibly soon, HAL and other will start to see the market shrink and realize the bread basket may be in the North East and Mid Atlantic. We shall see, but I hope I am right.

You are not alone, those of us on the West Coast feel exactly the same way with them pulling the Oosterdam out of San Diego. Unfortunately after Feb 2009 we too will be forced into another cruiseline. For you, the East Coast at least has Florida and the cost to fly to Florida is not nearly as costly or as painfully long of a flight as it is for us on the West Coast. You at least have that option we will have NO options for a 7 day cruise to warm climates:(

[world~citizen]

I too think that Carnival Corp. should allow the different cruise lines under their umbrella to maintain their own personalities!

Bill

 

Agreed! I think they have done better on that score though than RCCL. :eek: