Is formal nights going away?

[tpwolfe]

I talked to a TA at a Seattle hotel last weekend and he said that Carnival Corporation sent him a memo that on July 15, 2008 they are eliminating all formal nights on their family of ships. He said the reason for this is that most people don’t like formal nights anymore and also due to the new luggage restrictions from the airlines. I hope he’s right.

[kakalina]

They isn't.

[tpwolfe]

Can you tell where your information is coming from that they aren't?

[teltrainer]

Here's one place...an email I got last week when I questioned re: formal nights continuing:

 

"...We would like to reassure you that Holland America Line has not plans now or in the future to cancel formals nights.."

 

However, cruise lines can change their minds at any times.

[tpwolfe]

Here's one place...an email I got last week when I questioned re: formal nights continuing:

 

"...We would like to reassure you that Holland America Line has not plans now or in the future to cancel formals nights.."

 

However, cruise lines can change their minds at any times.

 

I talked to a person at Holland America today and she told me that they haven't received a memo on it yet but wouldn’t be surprised if they eliminate formals nights because of the same reasons the TA told me.

[teltrainer]

See...my last sentence holds true :)

[Harry1954]

I talked to a person at Holland America today and she told me that they haven't received a memo on it yet but wouldn’t be surprised if they eliminate formals nights because of the same reasons the TA told me.

That position by HAL would be silly. They currently do not enforce Formal Night, they have a dress code differentiation that a percentage of folks follow - and would continue to follow, and reacting to suitcase weights will not solve the problem. Unless the dress becomes casual - flipflops, tank tops, etc .. a man would still be lugging a suit along or a couple of sport coats on anything over 12 days I suspect. This will not lessen the weight significantly IMHO.

harry

[JimVrhovac]

HAL prides themselves on being a more elegant laid back line. As was said earlier Formal dress is really optional and up to the individual

 

If then did do away with it we would still gets dressed up couple nights a week as we like to.

 

Ruth & Jim

[dabear]

IMHO, I disagree with Harry1954 etc. I've now been on both Oceania and Azamara, who have country club casual dress and people were well dressed, but casual (ie no tank tops, cut offs etc.). I'm tired of wearing (and packing) a tux, sport coats etc. I still have to wear a coat and tie most days to work. Formal weddings are enough. Sorry if this may be an unpopular view , but it is what the world is coming to.

[tpwolfe]

That position by HAL would be silly. They currently do not enforce Formal Night, they have a dress code differentiation that a percentage of folks follow - and would continue to follow, and reacting to suitcase weights will not solve the problem. Unless the dress becomes casual - flipflops, tank tops, etc .. a man would still be lugging a suit along or a couple of sport coats on anything over 12 days I suspect. This will not lessen the weight significantly IMHO.

harry

 

Just got off the Veendam last week and there were men in nice suits without ties on and they were not allowed in the dining room on formal night. My wife and I saw them stop about 6 couples from entering. The next formal night we had dinner in the Lido because we didn’t want to dress up. When we got to the Lido it was packed and the staff were running around in a panic because they were running out of food. I talked to one of people in charge that was working in the Lido that night and he said they set a record in the Lido for a number of people served. He said there was over 300 guests in the Lido that night and it didn’t include room service or the grill. That’s at least ¼ of the ship passengers didn’t want to dress up and go to the dining room even for the lobster. Just think of the number people that wouldn’t go to the dining room if the served lobster in the Lido. Times are changing a number of people enjoy cruising but don't want to dress up on vacation.

[teltrainer]

So as to not duplicate...see the last post for more info from a Captain's blog. Interesting!

[seamist]

That position by HAL would be silly. They currently do not enforce Formal Night, they have a dress code differentiation that a percentage of folks follow

 

That's not what I saw. On my May 08 Veendam cruise I personally saw 4 men nicely dressed (suits.....not t-shirts, flip-flops or shorts) turned away on formal night for not having a tie on. I believe one man was even wearing a tuxedo, just open collar. Nope, not allowed in. At the same time as these IMO sharply dressed men were not allowed into the dining room, I saw a woman allowed in wearing dockers, a t-shirt, and a cotton quilted jacket. I saw another woman allowed in wearing burkenstock sandals, knit pants, another t-shirt with a knitted poncho with sparkly beads in it (her attempt at formal wear I guess) allowed in.

 

Since my daughter got married last summer I know for a fact there are now tuxedo shirts designed to be worn without ties (they are known as mandarin or banded collar) and are to be worn with a fancy jeweled button instead. My DH asked the DR Manager if that man would be allowed in and the manager said NO. Had to have a tie.

 

I'm fine with that policy IF the same policy is enforced for women and from what I saw it is definitely not. Over 80% of the women in the DR that particular formal night were not even close to being formal. Most were in slacks or day-time dresses, not cocktail dresses or gowns. I would also be fine with this IF the "Know Before You Go" handbooks did not say 'suggested' dress on page 15 which implies 'optional'. In any case what is now happening onboard the Veendam is that men are required to be formal (hence the tie code) but women are allowed to be casual, which is unacceptable to me. It should be the same code for both sexes. If a man now has to have a tie on, a woman should now have to be in a cocktail dress or gown exactly as page 15 states.

 

And THAT is what is silly. No man should be refused the DR simply for not having a tie on.....while a woman can go in the DR wearing whatever she darn well pleases. And as a woman I can say this!

[Harry1954]

That's not what I saw. On my May 08 Veendam cruise I personally saw 4 men nicely dressed (suits.....not t-shirts, flip-flops or shorts) turned away on formal night for not having a tie on. I believe one man was even wearing a tuxedo, just open collar. Nope, not allowed in. At the same time as these IMO sharply dressed men were not allowed into the dining room, I saw a woman allowed in wearing dockers, a t-shirt, and a cotton quilted jacket. I saw another woman allowed in wearing burkenstock sandals, knit pants, another t-shirt with a knitted poncho with sparkly beads in it (her attempt at formal wear I guess) allowed in.

 

Since my daughter got married last summer I know for a fact there are now tuxedo shirts designed to be worn without ties (they are known as mandarin or banded collar) and are to be worn with a fancy jeweled button instead. My DH asked the DR Manager if that man would be allowed in and the manager said NO. Had to have a tie.

 

I'm fine with that policy IF the same policy is enforced for women and from what I saw it is definitely not. Over 80% of the women in the DR that particular formal night were not even close to being formal. Most were in slacks or day-time dresses, not cocktail dresses or gowns. I would also be fine with this IF the "Know Before You Go" handbooks did not say 'suggested' dress on page 15 which implies 'optional'. In any case what is now happening onboard the Veendam is that men are required to be formal (hence the tie code) but women are allowed to be casual, which is unacceptable to me. It should be the same code for both sexes. If a man now has to have a tie on, a woman should now have to be in a cocktail dress or gown exactly as page 15 states.

 

And THAT is what is silly. No man should be refused the DR simply for not having a tie on.....while a woman can go in the DR wearing whatever she darn well pleases. And as a woman I can say this!

Silly = t-shirt in Pinnacle on formal night Or polo shirt in dining room on formal night? These were just merely two of the many we witnessed; however, it may have only been this ship as on previous HAL cruises, we saw most every male wearing a tie or tux and most women looked nicely dressed.

harry

[cruz chic]

That's not what I saw. On my May 08 Veendam cruise I personally saw 4 men nicely dressed (suits.....not t-shirts, flip-flops or shorts) turned away on formal night for not having a tie on. I believe one man was even wearing a tuxedo, just open collar. Nope, not allowed in. At the same time as these IMO sharply dressed men were not allowed into the dining room, I saw a woman allowed in wearing dockers, a t-shirt, and a cotton quilted jacket. I saw another woman allowed in wearing burkenstock sandals, knit pants, another t-shirt with a knitted poncho with sparkly beads in it (her attempt at formal wear I guess) allowed in.

 

Since my daughter got married last summer I know for a fact there are now tuxedo shirts designed to be worn without ties (they are known as mandarin or banded collar) and are to be worn with a fancy jeweled button instead. My DH asked the DR Manager if that man would be allowed in and the manager said NO. Had to have a tie.

 

I'm fine with that policy IF the same policy is enforced for women and from what I saw it is definitely not. Over 80% of the women in the DR that particular formal night were not even close to being formal. Most were in slacks or day-time dresses, not cocktail dresses or gowns. I would also be fine with this IF the "Know Before You Go" handbooks did not say 'suggested' dress on page 15 which implies 'optional'. In any case what is now happening onboard the Veendam is that men are required to be formal (hence the tie code) but women are allowed to be casual, which is unacceptable to me. It should be the same code for both sexes. If a man now has to have a tie on, a woman should now have to be in a cocktail dress or gown exactly as page 15 states.

 

And THAT is what is silly. No man should be refused the DR simply for not having a tie on.....while a woman can go in the DR wearing whatever she darn well pleases. And as a woman I can say this!

I'm with you on this one. I think woman have a much easier time on formal night. They can "get away" with a lot. I'm always dressed to the nines and I'm surprised at what is considered as formal by some.

[seamist]

Silly = t-shirt in Pinnacle on formal night Or polo shirt in dining room on formal night? These were just merely two of the many we witnessed; however, it may have only been this ship as on previous HAL cruises, we saw most every male wearing a tie or tux and most women looked nicely dressed.

harry

 

Then sail on the Veendam next time. I can guarantee you on formal night any man not wearing a tie is ejected from the Dining Room AND ditto Pinnacle. As to tux, if it don't have a shirt designed to be worn with a tie rather than a jeweled button, DITTO. And I got that straight from the heading Dining Room steward who was doing all the ejecting.

 

At this point a man could go in dressed like bozo the clown, jacket and huge bowtie a yard wide and he would be allowed in. Because hey, he's got a jacket and tie on. But the guy dressed like Orlando Bloom at the recent Oscar ceremony dressed to the nines in Tuxedo with mandarin tuxedo shirt and jeweled button, NOPE, NADA.

 

Perhaps we need a definition of silly here.

[RevNeal]

Then sail on the Veendam next time. I can guarantee you on formal night any man not wearing a tie is ejected from the Dining Room AND ditto Pinnacle. As to tux, if it don't have a shirt designed to be worn with a tie rather than a jeweled button, DITTO. And I got that straight from the heading Dining Room steward who was doing all the ejecting.

 

At this point a man could go in dressed like bozo the clown, jacket and huge bowtie a yard wide and he would be allowed in. Because hey, he's got a jacket and tie on. But the guy dressed like Orlando Bloom at the recent Oscar ceremony dressed to the nines in Tuxedo with mandarin tuxedo shirt and jeweled button, NOPE, NADA.

 

Perhaps we need a definition of silly here.

 

Hmmm ... I wonder what would happen to me, dressed in Clerics?

In the past -- according to all the guides I've read -- that is "Clergy Formal." And, in the past, I've never had any trouble in the Main Dining Room dressed in clerics ... even when the staff has been highly restrictive on the subject.

[Sundagger]

I talked to a TA at a Seattle hotel last weekend and he said that Carnival Corporation sent him a memo that on July 15, 2008 they are eliminating all formal nights on their family of ships. He said the reason for this is that most people don’t like formal nights anymore and also due to the new luggage restrictions from the airlines. I hope he’s right.

 

Well, they have done away with formal nights on the Carnival Cruiseline ships, I think effective in July, but it seems to have been done already on some ships. I'd be surprised if it happens on the more formal Carnival Corp. lines anytime soon.

[scopewest]

Be interesting to see what happens.

[RevNeal]

Speculation runs rampant.

 

 

So what else is new?? :)

[NoNoNanette]

Looks like some posters will be making a run to Cunard. Such a shame! :p

[ctsally]

IMO, no shorts, flip-flops, tank tops, etc. should be allowed in the dining room. However, with the costs of everything escalating, it makes sense to me to forget the formal nights (unless one chooses to dress "to the nines"). Cocktail dresses which would never be worn at home, gowns, etc. run the cost of the cruise up beyond what is reasonable. The fuel surcharges are understandable, but lets try to save where we can.

[seamist]

IMO, no shorts, flip-flops, tank tops, etc. should be allowed in the dining room. However, with the costs of everything escalating, it makes sense to me to forget the formal nights (unless one chooses to dress "to the nines"). Cocktail dresses which would never be worn at home, gowns, etc. run the cost of the cruise up beyond what is reasonable. The fuel surcharges are understandable, but lets try to save where we can.

 

I completely agree! For some people even the cost of suit and tie is something they would only wear on a cruise, as many corporations have gone completely casual, and even many churches are now polo shirts, etc. rather than suits. I know that at my daughter's formal wedding last summer I would estimate that besides the wedding party maybe 5% were wearing suit/tie (the other 95% were in polo shirts) so some people just can't justify this extra cost anymore. The rising fuel costs along with luggage restrictions will just make it worse. As far as renting formal wear on the ship, who wants to use any extra money for formal wear versus drinks or shore excursions or the spa? I know I don't! Times have changed and the cruise lines need to adjust.

 

P.S. to NoNoNanette....the Carnival Corporation also owns Cunard lines so that may not be a viable option to some folks either.

[cruisingagentone]

Back when I first sailed Holland America (I'm sad to say I haven't been in a loooonnnnng time) you had to stay in formal wear all nite or they would not allow you into the shows or the lounges. That was in '93!!

[tpwolfe]

The TA told me that there would still be a drees code. No shorts, tanktops, etc. I would assume it would be the casual dress code they have now for dinner for the entire cruise.

[RuthC]

The TA told me that there would still be a drees code. No shorts, tanktops, etc. I would assume it would be the casual dress code they have now for dinner for the entire cruise.

And since many people can't manage the smart casual code, lowering the standard for one code will result in the standard lowered for all.

Shorts, t-shirts, tanks, etc---it's just a matter of (little) time.

Then comes the day "Flopsie" and Mopsie" aren't restricted to the so-called "topless deck". :rolleyes: