Is formal nights going away?

[pipedreams62]

[Cruising Ham]

People look for different things in their vacations. Some of us actually LIKE the formalities.

I'm going to second that, even though I've yet to take even my first cruise. Here's my thinking:

 

In my lifetime, the work world (for guys) has gone from suits every day, to suits every day except casual Friday, to every day being casual Friday except Friday, which turns into grunge Friday if you contribute a dollar to the company's favorite charity.

 

So dressing up WILL be something different. Opportunities to wear a suit/sportcoat have become few and far between, at least for me. This will be a treat. And I intend to wear a sport coat on most of the "casual" evenings, just because. I say "intend", because who knows?

 

It's the same logic I used when telling my wife that I was going to pick things from the menu we don't (or can't) normally make at home. Oh, there might still be a prime rib with my name on it, but the plan is to do something different. I can go back to being my regular self when we return.

 

Having said all that, others can do as they please, it won't bother me.

[RevNeal]

This line of argument seems specious to me. I don't understand why re-wearing casual wear must become dull, boring, and obvious while re-wearing formal wear will not. Especially since with a little planning a mix & match casual wear strategy works really well. (I pack coordinating colors.) This is especially true for those who have AYW dining and are not necessarily seated with the same people each night. Personally, I've never noticed whether a tablemate reused an outfit. I'm much more interested in that night's menu, and I would notice if that was recycled! :)

 

Firstly, standards for Formal as opposed to Casual are far different. The very nature of Formal Wear, for men, is that it either doesn't change or the changes it allows are tiny, indeed, and what it takes to change up the outfit requires little, if any, extra space and only ounces of the weight allowance. This is NOT the case for Casual wear ... where change requires an entirely different item (a different shirt, a different pair of pants, etc) ... it's not just a matter of accessories. I was able to wear 5 different outfits on 15 casual nights by mixing and matching for about 12 nights and dressing up to the old informal standard (jacket and tie or clerics) on 3 of those Smart Casual Nights. But it took 5 different shirts to do that. Without ANY Formal Nights or Informal garb -- i.e., with just casual attire -- I would have needed 10 different shirts and between 5 and 10 different pair of slacks in order to create sufficient variety for ME to not feel the same very night on a 20 day cruise. Why is it ok to be the same every Formal night but not the same every Smart Casual Night? That's the NATURE of Formal Nights vs Casual Nights ... Formal is "Sameness" (it's one of the reasons why so many people HATE them), regularity, structure, uniformity etc. Casual, on the other hand, is the antithesis of that. Hence, to keep from sliding back into the "the same-ol-same-ol" one must, by its very nature, have more items for more Casual Nights.

 

Secondly, I don't dress for my table mates (well, I DO for my friends ... but that's another topic). I dress for myself. I notice if I'm wearing the same casual shirt repeatedly, and I do get tired of it. Perhaps it would be better for me to say that, for ME, Smart Casual Night attire takes (1) more time to plan (2) more effort to pack, and (3) more space and weight in the bags. Some men may be happy and comfortable wearing the same pair of dockers every night for 20 nights and one of 3 polo shirts every night for 20 nights ... not I.

[RevNeal]

 

Listening to Christopher drone on and on about that show has caused me to watch it. I actually enjoy it and have learned a lot from it ... even where I disagree with them! :)

[Sir PMP]

Just stay away from the HAL ships

[pipedreams62]

Listening to Christopher drone on and on about that show has caused me to watch it. I actually enjoy it and have learned a lot from it ... even where I disagree with them! :)

 

 

Your music on your Antartica video is outstanding. Very tastefully done.

 

Thanks

[helenb]

Frankly I find this whole thing sad. I am one of the people who like to dress up for formal nights, and I don't have too much of a problem if others don't. But I have been on a number of lines and noticed the differences in the percentages of people who comply with formal night. To me, it would have to be at least 25% for me to feel comfortable in formal wear myself.

 

I have booked my next 2 cruises on Celebrity and HAL, because I WANT the formal atmosphere. I refuse to sail Carnival and NCL because they do not have sufficient numbers of people participating in formal night.

 

Now I'm not saying that everyone has to dress up, but clearly there ARE people who want to get formal. If some lines get rid of formal nights, I would like to think that others would keep them, and that those who enjoy dressing up (as I do) would gravitate toward those lines. I'm just not sure why ALL of them would get rid of formal nights.

[RevNeal]

Your music on your Antartica video is outstanding. Very tastefully done.

 

Thank you very much! It took me a while to find the right music for the scenes. I like the soundtrack from the "Space Battleship Yamato" series.

[mamaofami]

Makes me sad to think of doing away with formal nights too. I no longer wear a gown and DH doesn't wear a tux. I do wear beaded tops and jackets, though. I'll be sad because I worry about the downward spiral that will take place in how people decide to dress for the dining room. If they really came in smart casual, I'd be OK, but when I see shorts and t shirts in those beautiful rooms, it will just be inappropriate, IMHO.

[WOWJr1]

I notice if I'm wearing the same casual shirt repeatedly, and I do get tired of it. Perhaps it would be better for me to say that, for ME, Smart Casual Night attire takes (1) more time to plan (2) more effort to pack, and (3) more space and weight in the bags.

 

Thanks for the clarification - that makes more sense.

 

Some men may be happy and comfortable wearing the same pair of dockers every night for 20 nights and one of 3 polo shirts every night for 20 nights ... not I.

 

I am closer to the "some men" you cite. I have never taken more than 4 dress slacks (wear 1, pack 3) plus 6 to 8 smart-casual-suitable shirts (again, wear 1, pack the rest) on any trip, regardless of length. And I am very comfortable with that.

 

I've also been thinking that, if your formal v. smart casual packing hypothesis is correct, cruisers on Azamara and Oceania should have heavier/more luggage than those on HAL cruises of comparable length. That would be an interesting survey.

[KittenQ]

I sure hope that there will always be the option of formal nights. HAL has made it quite easy for the men and women both as they may choose to rent their formal wear and it will be in their stateroom upon arrival. Women can always find a very light weight formal dress to wear. Men have it a little more difficult. My husband and I plan to put some of each others clothes in both suitcases to help on the baggage weight and also in case our luggage is lost. We both like dressing up as we are retired and get tired of sitting around in jeans all day. Also we like to ballroom dance where ladies still wear dresses and skirts.

 

Look for us on the dance floor on our way to Alaska, June 14th.

[Taxguy7]

The 2 of you seem to be the foremost advocates of Formal Wear.

I just returned home from the most formal wedding of the year this year, and a good friend in front of me said he had a tie on for the first time in a year and was happy he remembered how to tie it; I said I thought I had a new tie that came with a shirt I had bought and thought was a pre-tied, but was only set up that way for sale (how do you get rid of wrinkles?).

My BW just confirmened I did not need a dress shirt or tie until the Rotterdam cruise. Sounds good to me.:p

Most of the activity was outside and it was 94F at 11PM! Very few still had jackets on by the end, none of the dancers! :cool:

I will pack a suit (might as well wear it, I don't want to be buried in it!) and I enjoy dining in a venue where people are dressed nicely. :)

[Aussie Gal]

I have always been a HAL traditionalist and have always enjoyed dressing up for formal nights and having my husband in his tuxedo. Men always looks so handsome.

 

In saying that, we have just returned from a 35 day cruise on Oceania's Nautica where it was "Country Club Casual" every night. The ladies still dressed up but not formally and the men wore short sleeve shirts and nice pants in the dining room.

 

When we ate in the two alternate restuarants (both gratis) most men were a jacket and some even wore ties, (my husband did), as it was similar to going to an upmarket restaurant at home for dinner.

 

My opinions have changed since that cruise. I am happy not to pack all that extra gear into our cases, especially as we have such long flights and I also love anytime dining now. It was great to be able to go to dinner whenever you felt like it. We love dining at 7.30pm, and normally with Traditional we have to wait until after 8pm, depending on which cruise line we are on.

 

Perhaps by the time of our next cruise with HAL in November 2009, the whole scenario of Traditional dining and Formal nights will be long gone.

 

Jennie

[LV0110]

Thanks for all of this good info. We are thinking oof taking our first HAL cruise later this year and my husband gave up ties when he retired. I will certainly be sure to slip one in his bag just in case.

[LV0110]

Thanks for all of this good info. We are thinking oof taking our first HAL cruise later this year and my husband gave up ties when he retired. I will certainly be sure to slip one in his bag just in case.

[babyher]

The 2 of you seem to be the foremost advocates of Formal Wear.

I just returned home from the most formal wedding of the year this year, and a good friend in front of me said he had a tie on for the first time in a year and was happy he remembered how to tie it; I said I thought I had a new tie that came with a shirt I had bought and thought was a pre-tied, but was only set up that way for sale (how do you get rid of wrinkles?).

My BW just confirmened I did not need a dress shirt or tie until the Rotterdam cruise. Sounds good to me.:p

Most of the activity was outside and it was 94F at 11PM! Very few still had jackets on by the end, none of the dancers! :cool:

I will pack a suit (might as well wear it, I don't want to be buried in it!) and I enjoy dining in a venue where people are dressed nicely. :)

 

I have two weddings to go to this summer.

 

One is going to be a Luau theme and the couple wnats everyone in Hawaiian shirts and mumus (or whatever "tropical" type clothing you have) .

 

The other one is going to be a strictly "smart casual" affair.

 

 

I was just reading about Charlie Jones , an old sportscaster that just passed away. They are having a memorial service/ celebration of his life sometime this week at some country club. According to the widow, he specified in his will that men are forbidden to wear ties to this event :)

[sapper1]

We will be taking a 20 day European cruise next summer which will be the first cruise where we have not driven to the embarkation port in our own car. We have already decided that we will take our formal wear and not skimp on the clothing when we pack, as the charge for an extra checked bag is a "drop in the bucket" when you consider the entire cost of the cruise/air/hotels.

[Golfette]

I have always been a HAL traditionalist and have always enjoyed dressing up for formal nights and having my husband in his tuxedo. Men always looks so handsome.

 

In saying that, we have just returned from a 35 day cruise on Oceania's Nautica where it was "Country Club Casual" every night. The ladies still dressed up but not formally and the men wore short sleeve shirts and nice pants in the dining room.

 

When we ate in the two alternate restuarants (both gratis) most men were a jacket and some even wore ties, (my husband did), as it was similar to going to an upmarket restaurant at home for dinner.

 

My opinions have changed since that cruise. I am happy not to pack all that extra gear into our cases, especially as we have such long flights and I also love anytime dining now. It was great to be able to go to dinner whenever you felt like it. We love dining at 7.30pm, and normally with Traditional we have to wait until after 8pm, depending on which cruise line we are on.

Aussie Gal ... thanks for the Oceania report. On our Oceania cruise (only 12 days), there were very few jackets and no ties (that we saw anyhow).

 

Perhaps by the time of our next cruise with HAL in November 2009, the whole scenario of Traditional dining and Formal nights will be long gone.

We can only hope;) .

[iancal]

I really do not care what HAL does as it will not impact me one way or the other . There are lots of cruise lines and ships to choose from.

 

This entire issue lays right in HAL's lap. They owe their customers a definitive answer and they need to enforce the decision...whatever it is and on all ships in the line. Their current wishy washy management policy/enforcement, designed to be all things to all people, will eventually hurt them the marketplace. Come on HAL, get of the dime and declare- then enforce as appropriate.

[caribbeanboy]

Looks like some posters will be making a run to Cunard. Such a shame! :p

 

But still Carnival will get the money anyway!

[GOLDENBONNY]

I don't think they will do away with formal night .. but as long as they don't prohibit it .. there will still be people dressing up .. I will be the one in a formal with hubby in a Tux!!

 

 

I am with you:p I love formal night ,people who dont can choose NCL.i really hope they will not cancel .

[RevNeal]

The 2 of you seem to be the foremost advocates of Formal Wear.

I just returned home from the most formal wedding of the year this year, and a good friend in front of me said he had a tie on for the first time in a year and was happy he remembered how to tie it; I said I thought I had a new tie that came with a shirt I had bought and thought was a pre-tied, but was only set up that way for sale (how do you get rid of wrinkles?).

My BW just confirmened I did not need a dress shirt or tie until the Rotterdam cruise. Sounds good to me.:p

Most of the activity was outside and it was 94F at 11PM! Very few still had jackets on by the end, none of the dancers! :cool:

I will pack a suit (might as well wear it, I don't want to be buried in it!) and I enjoy dining in a venue where people are dressed nicely. :)

 

I do about 6 or 7 weddings a year, on average -- sometimes more, sometimes less -- and, invariably, about half of them are "formal" (the men in the wedding party dressed in Tuxedos, women of the wedding party dressed in gowns), and the other half tend to be "suit & tie / nice dress" events. On occasion the weddings at which I officiate have been more casual, particularly when they're outdoors or at someone's home. Regardless of how the marriage party is dressed, the congregation present for the wedding will dress in a wide variety of styles and levels ... everywhere from suit and tie to shorts and t-shirts, and everything in-between. I once saw a "mother of the bride" pitch a fit over what one of the people attending the wedding was wearing (or not wearing, as the case may be). I will admit ... it was somewhat less than "skimpy" and so revealing that men in the marriage party were rather distracted. And, there lies the tale (pun intended).

 

Sadly, proper respect for the occasion and for those getting married has long sense gone out the window along with the tradition of formal nights and "Sunday Go To Meeting" clothing. I'm not talking about slacks and a golf shirt at a wedding ... I'm talking about super-short shorts and tube tops that are about to fall down.

[world~citizen]

 

Sadly, proper respect for the occasion and for those getting married has long sense gone out the window along with the tradition of formal nights and "Sunday Go To Meeting" clothing. I'm not talking about slacks and a golf shirt at a wedding ... I'm talking about super-short shorts and tube tops that are about to fall down.

 

We attended a wedding last year - same situation. I read these boards and sometimes I wonder how HAL has managed to keep the formal tradition going as long as it has.

 

The reason is that it is sensible. It doesn't matter what the dress code is, there will always be people who stand up to be counted with those who challenge the status quo. So even if HAL changed the policy it wouldn't stop people from complaining to the HM or from writing letters to head office about it. There will always be complaints!

 

It is easier to advance a reasonable policy than an unreasonable one. HAL's dress code is a compromise that attempts to address a broad range of preferences. It is very easy to defend a policy that brokers everyone's interest against a policy that caters to a single one. It is very difficult to argue for your preference to be addressed to the exclusion of others.

 

That, in a nutshell is why I believe the code is unlikely to change, in the near to medium future. The policy is oh so sensible. :D

[iancal]

Maybe HAL wants to keep formal night becuase they do not want to loose the formal wear attire revenue. My guess is that they get 35-50 percent of the gross. Any know what the split is and what the average sail revenue would be?

[hammybee]

They isn't.

:D :D :eek: