Surrender Your Passport?

[cruisemom42]

Between he three of us we have traveled to Saudi Arabia, Italy, Israel, France, Germany, Morocco, Spain, Great Britain (England), Belgium, Switzerland, Mexico, Canada, Bahamas, Kenya, Tanzania, Japan, Bali, Brazil, the former communist East Germany, and French Polynesia. None of us have EVER been asked to leave our passports at the front desk.

 

 

....and I personally have traveled to Egypt, Portugal, Spain, France, Switzerland, Italy, UK, Germany (West and former East), Greece, Turkey, Austria, Canada, Japan, China, Thailand, Taiwan, Korea, Russia, Poland, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Netherlands, Costa Rica, Peru, Venezuela, and most Caribbean islands. I HAVE had my passport held. And your point is....?

[Moeve]

Get up and say you are in a foreign country!!!! and that you are not willing to part with what is your only ID out side of your country and by the way your ONLY way into an (US) Embassy when things go wrong!!!!

[Hlitner]

I will chime-in on this subject since we have taken dozens of international cruises and also spent a lot of time driving in Europe. On some itineraries, the cruise lines will require you to turn-in your passport at the time you check-in at embarkation. Usually, they will give you a receipt (often a small card), and they will hold your passport until later in the voyage. At some point (often a day or two prior to the end of your cruise) they will notify passengers (usually in the daily schedule) at what time and place to pick-up their passports. Since this is often a requirement for the ship to be cleared into certain ports, the passengers have no choice but to turn over their passports. The pursers office takes good care of the documents, but it still can make some worry. Its very wise to have some photo-copies of your passport page (you often need this to convert travelers checks in European banks). There is also a requirement in some European countries (such as Italy) that you show your passport upon checking-in (the hotel is required to copy some key info such as your country and passport number). It is very common to simply leave your passport at the front desk at pick it up later, but if you want to make an issue, its possible to simply wait at the front desk until they have recorded the info. I once spoke to someone who missed a ship in Italy and had to check into a hotel without their passport. The hotel was required to notify the local police, but they never heard anything more about the matter. The laws are always changing in Europe (just like in the USA) and its the pursers job to handle the details while passengers simply have fun. But we do recall a time when the cruise lines had to return passports for those going into Rome, since the Rome local police had a requirement that all non-Italians carry their passport while in the city. We think this requirement no longer exists, but who knows what new rules will exist tomorrow!

 

Hank

[ChevyCruiser]

I posed my question regarding surrendering my passport to hotel clerks to the US Department of State in one of their "contact us" email forms on their website. Here was my original question, cut and pasted.

 

QUESTION: I have been told that cruise ships will sometimes ask passengers to surrender their passports to the ship's crew. Supposedly this is so immigration officials can stamp everyone's passport in quick order without each passenger having to file by.

 

I have also been told that it is common practice for foreign hotels to ask to hold your passport during your stay.

 

I am uncomfortable letting my passport out of my sight, let alone turning it over to a hotel clerk.

 

What are the policies, laws, or guidelines about surrendering my passport, AND what is an alternative if I am uncomfortable in doing so?

 

As usual, when dealing with government bureaucrats, I didn't get a direct answer the first time, so I replied by asking another question to the agent who answered my first query, cut and pasted here:

 

Is it adviseable to surrender my passport to a hotel clerk? If you were faced with the request, what would you do?

 

And I received this reply from the agent, cut and pasted from the response:

 

 

Thank you for contacting the National Passport Information Center.

 

No one should be surrendering their passport to any hotel clerk personnel. If you have any further questions, please call the toll free number listed below.

 

 

For further information, please refer to our website www.travel.state.gov or call (877) 487-2778, for TDD/TTY users 1-888-874-7793 (Mon-Fri 8:00AM to 10:00PM ET; excluding federal holidays). If you need to contact us again by email, please include all prior messages/correspondence in your reply so we can review what has previously taken place.

Thank you.

National Passport Information Center

Agent # 2519

[greatam]

I posed my question regarding surrendering my passport to hotel clerks to the US Department of State in one of their "contact us" email forms on their website. Here was my original question, cut and pasted.

 

QUESTION: I have been told that cruise ships will sometimes ask passengers to surrender their passports to the ship's crew. Supposedly this is so immigration officials can stamp everyone's passport in quick order without each passenger having to file by.

 

I have also been told that it is common practice for foreign hotels to ask to hold your passport during your stay.

 

I am uncomfortable letting my passport out of my sight, let alone turning it over to a hotel clerk.

 

What are the policies, laws, or guidelines about surrendering my passport, AND what is an alternative if I am uncomfortable in doing so?

 

As usual, when dealing with government bureaucrats, I didn't get a direct answer the first time, so I replied by asking another question to the agent who answered my first query, cut and pasted here:

 

Is it adviseable to surrender my passport to a hotel clerk? If you were faced with the request, what would you do?

 

And I received this reply from the agent, cut and pasted from the response:

 

 

Thank you for contacting the National Passport Information Center.

 

No one should be surrendering their passport to any hotel clerk personnel. If you have any further questions, please call the toll free number listed below.

 

 

For further information, please refer to our website www.travel.state.gov or call (877) 487-2778, for TDD/TTY users 1-888-874-7793 (Mon-Fri 8:00AM to 10:00PM ET; excluding federal holidays). If you need to contact us again by email, please include all prior messages/correspondence in your reply so we can review what has previously taken place.

Thank you.

National Passport Information Center

Agent # 2519

 

You contacted the Passport Information Center. While they are a function of the US State Dept, they are staffed in large part by contract employees. So who do you think answered your email??? A boss-someone who actually has a PERMANENT job with US State, may have actually traveled overseas and has access to employees who can answer specific questions or a contract employee who just wanted to get rid of another email/contact form????

 

CALL the US State Dept. NOT the 800 number, the regular number in Washington, DC. Ask to speak to someone in CONSULAR Services. They are the people who deal daily with overseas rules and regulations.

 

The web link I posted is info that is sent to every military and civilian contract company and contractor BY THE US STATE DEPT. When travel itineraries are cleared through State for overseas travel on a government contract, your itinerary AND the document I posted are sent direct from State. Instead of going through approx 10,000 archived emails on our server to find MY email itineraries and documents from State, I posted from a company we do business with, who put the info on the web for their employees ease. Same documents-same info about hotels keeping passports. And cruisemom42 posted IDENTICAL info off the STATE dept website.

 

IF you are going on a cruise to the Caribbean/Mexico/Alaska, etc. etc. and have a US passport, ships will generally NOT collect passports. But to the Baltics, World cruises, and South America, passports are collected as a general rule. You can refuse to turn over your passport. You may be denied boarding. But if they allow you to keep your passport, you definitely will be getting up VERY early in the morning to clear immigration. In quite a few places, immigration officers arrive at the ship before dark. YOU get to meet them with your passport in hand. On a port heavy itinerary like South America, breakfast in bed will NOT be an option.

 

Don't even think of traveling to China, Vietnam or Cambodia WITHOUT turning over your passport to check in to a hotel. Vietnam is about the easiest-the hotel has to call the local police dept and give them all your info. Vietnamese police officers have the right to look at you passport AT THE HOTEL. So passports are kept, JUST IN CASE the police show up. IF you are out of the hotel and the hotel does NOT have your passport, you can be declared an "illegal alien/persona non grata" and be arrested.

 

I just spent almost the last three years buying an old apt. building which I am turning in to a hotel in Phnom Phen, Cambodia. One of the requirements for final clearance was to agree that I would keep in possession of the hotel in a "secure safe" passports of hotel guests from certain countries UNTIL they were cleared by the police. May take a couple hours or a couple days. The police will bring the visa list and I must match passports to the visa list. If you were checking into my new hotel (open Dec. 2008), you would be turned away.

 

Good luck with your protest!!!!

[sultan_sfo]

I suggest that you look up the dictionary meanings of the word "Surrender". It just happens to be used in the title of the thread. The discussion has never been about really "Surrendering".

 

...

Is it adviseable to surrender my passport to a hotel clerk? If you were faced with the request, what would you do?

 

And I received this reply from the agent, cut and pasted from the response:

 

No one should be surrendering their passport to any hotel clerk personnel. If you have any further questions, please call the toll free number listed below.

 

 

Thank you for contacting the National Passport Information Center.

 

hotel clerk personnel. If you have any further questions, please call the toll free number listed below.

 

National Passport Information Center

Agent # 2519

[sail7seas]

 

 

Don't even think of traveling to China, Vietnam or Cambodia WITHOUT turning over your passport to check in to a hotel. Vietnam is about the easiest-the hotel has to call the local police dept and give them all your info. Vietnamese police officers have the right to look at you passport AT THE HOTEL. So passports are kept, JUST IN CASE the police show up. IF you are out of the hotel and the hotel does NOT have your passport, you can be declared an "illegal alien/persona non grata" and be arrested.

 

I just spent almost the last three years buying an old apt. building which I am turning in to a hotel in Phnom Phen, Cambodia. One of the requirements for final clearance was to agree that I would keep in possession of the hotel in a "secure safe" passports of hotel guests from certain countries UNTIL they were cleared by the police. May take a couple hours or a couple days. The police will bring the visa list and I must match passports to the visa list. If you were checking into my new hotel (open Dec. 2008), you would be turned away.

 

Good luck with your protest!!!!

 

 

Very interesting post. Thank you for it and good luck with your new venture. Sounds fabulous!

[greatam]

Very interesting post. Thank you for it and good luck with your new venture. Sounds fabulous!

 

Thanks. It has been a long struggle-working with a Communist government that is just now coming into the 21st century was a real hassle. IF I had known then what I know now, I would have bailed. But by the time I realized what a hassle it was, I was in too deep monetarily to loose the money.

 

My two favorite places in the world-Phnom Phen Cambodia and Homer Alaska. Such a difference. But both have a "wild west" feel to them.

 

With my international logistics business focusing more and more on Asia and the Middle East (thank you, Prime Minister al Maliki for the oil contracts), if no one checks into the hotel, I will have a central base of operations in the Far East. Could be a cheap office and place to stay. Cambodia is by far the cheapest "new" tourist destination in the Far East. Thanks again.

[ChevyCruiser]

I emailed RCCL to ask about their corporate policy regarding collecting passports from cruise ship passengers. Here's a direct cut-and-paste from their reply:

 

Dear Mr. X:

 

Thank you for your email. We apologize for the delay in our response.

 

We ask that all guests surrender their passport in order to maintain the highest level of security and convenience. Guests do have the ability to refuse to turn over their passport if they desire. This may be the reason for the reports of inconsistency. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

 

Mr. X, thank you for choosing Royal Caribbean International.

 

Sincerely,

 

Lisa Webster

Customer Service Representative

 

 

So far we have the State Department saying that we should refuse to turn over our passports to hotel clerks and one cruise line saying that we can refuse to turn over our passport to the ship's staff.

 

I think I have my game plan in place - and I have no desire to travel to China, Vietnam, or Cambodia.

 

BTW - it's called a passPORT, not a passFRONTDESK.:)

[jbond]

I think I have my game plan in place - and I have no desire to travel to China, Vietnam, or Cambodia.

You had better add Brazil to that list. In order to get a visa you have to leave your passport at the Brazilian Embassy or Consulate. It usually takes 7 to 10 days for them to issue you a visa and they hold your passport during that time.

[ChevyCruiser]

You had better add Brazil to that list. In order to get a visa you have to leave your passport at the Brazilian Embassy or Consulate. It usually takes 7 to 10 days for them to issue you a visa and they hold your passport during that time.

 

 

Thanks, I'll add that to my list! Never wanted to go there anyway.

[Moeve]

You had better add Brazil to that list. In order to get a visa you have to leave your passport at the Brazilian Embassy or Consulate. It usually takes 7 to 10 days for them to issue you a visa and they hold your passport during that time.

 

You misunderstand - the "communication" between states / countries is not the problem - THAT is what you have your passports for.

 

What many of us do not agree with is every little hotel clerk taking photostat copies because they are afraid the credit card company will turn down payment and the hotel will have to see how it gets paid. That is inacceptable since these folks are not state employees, not sworn to keeping your infomation secret. These clerks also have direct access to your credit card details and your signinture - now add passport details to the mix. That is the proverbial Candy store for anyone who is out to make a quick buck selling your info to the CC mafia.

[jbond]

You misunderstand - the "communication" between states / countries is not the problem - THAT is what you have your passports for.

I misunderstood nothing. You're the one doing the misunderstanding. Go back and re read my post. I was just informing ChevyCruiser that he should add Brazil to his list of places he wouldn't visit because he doesn't want to surrender his passport under any circumstance.

[aaerobear]

This has really gotten silly. All I can say is that I hope you are standing BEHIND me in line at these hotels and ships. That way, I will be checked in and on my way while you are making your stand for "truth and justice" and taking up other people's time.

 

We have been called "liars" and "suspicious characters" for saying we follow the procedures of different countries and relating our experiences. They may not be "laws" but there are places where procedures and practices are different than they are at home. I carried a diplomatic passport for a few years and complied with the local regulations at all times.

 

Do what you want to do or have to do, but don't tell others what to do. You may find yourself being denied passage or a room one of these times and you will have nobody to blame but yourself.

[greatam]

This has really gotten silly. All I can say is that I hope you are standing BEHIND me in line at these hotels and ships. That way, I will be checked in and on my way while you are making your stand for "truth and justice" and taking up other people's time.

 

We have been called "liars" and "suspicious characters" for saying we follow the procedures of different countries and relating our experiences. They may not be "laws" but there are places where procedures and practices are different than they are at home. I carried a diplomatic passport for a few years and complied with the local regulations at all times.

 

Do what you want to do or have to do, but don't tell others what to do. You may find yourself being denied passage or a room one of these times and you will have nobody to blame but yourself.

 

AMEN!!!!

 

ChevyCruiser has certainly limited his options to what parts of the world he can see. Almost anyplace you need a visa, your passport is out of your possession while the Embassy/Consulate prepares the visa.

 

ChevyCruiser-PLEASE stick to the Caribbean, Alaska and Mexico. You (and everyone in line behind you) will be far happier.

[ChevyCruiser]

We have been called "liars" and "suspicious characters" for saying we follow the procedures of different countries and relating our experiences.

 

 

Who is "we" and what was the post number where "we" were called "liars" and "suspicious characters"?

[cruisemom42]

It's clear that some people have their own version of reality and they are not about to let something like a few hard facts change that. :D

 

Even statements from the US Dept of State website are not good enough, and I agree I have had enough of being called a "dumb sheep." I venture to guess I have spent many more days traveling outside the US than many who have passed on their opinions as facts here.

 

I am developing a new appreciation of what the term "ugly American" conjures up in foreign countries.....

[ItaliaBella]

On my last cruise to the Med - I had to turn over my passport to Celebrity just before we arrived in Greece even though I had been in Europe for a month prior to that. It was no big deal. REALLY. I got it back the day after our stop in Athens.

 

I once had to turn over my passport to a youth Hostel in Barcelona for a 4 day stay back in 2001. Yes, I protested but didn't have a choice. Again, NO BIG DEAL. They only kept my passport only in the case my room should be damaged by me or my guest, they would hold us liable until we payed for the damage. Never had a problem with the room and we were able to retrieve our passports on the day we left.

 

Whenever I go back to Europe - no matter which country I am in, they all write down my passport number when checking into the hotel and never once they asked to make a copy or keep it with the except of the youth hostel in Barcelona.

 

I know that I will have to turn it over when I go to Russia this summer. OK, NO BIG DEAL. It beats having to sit on the boat for two whole days.

 

I'm not worried or overly concerned about passport issues because I just want to have fun traveling. I realize that if you are new at international traveling, this may freak you out, but an experience international traveler would just shrug and move on. I got more important things to do - like having fun and exploring whichever country I happen to be in rather than stand in front of the hotel staff and complain about passport issues.

[Moeve]

Italia Bella - If you go via ship you don't have to turn over your passport in Russia infact you simply carry it - show it at immigration and they stamp it going in and out. If you are on a tour with an independant operator you get a little red card which you may not loose put into your passport - this is collected everytime you return to the ship. However no one has to turn their passport in. We have just done SPB so there should be no discrepancy there

[celle]

Y

Don't even think of traveling to China, Vietnam or Cambodia WITHOUT turning over your passport to check in to a hotel. Vietnam is about the easiest-the hotel has to call the local police dept and give them all your info. Vietnamese police officers have the right to look at you passport AT THE HOTEL. So passports are kept, JUST IN CASE the police show up. IF you are out of the hotel and the hotel does NOT have your passport, you can be declared an "illegal alien/persona non grata" and be arrested.

 

I just spent almost the last three years buying an old apt. building which I am turning in to a hotel in Phnom Phen, Cambodia. One of the requirements for final clearance was to agree that I would keep in possession of the hotel in a "secure safe" passports of hotel guests from certain countries UNTIL they were cleared by the police. May take a couple hours or a couple days. The police will bring the visa list and I must match passports to the visa list. If you were checking into my new hotel (open Dec. 2008), you would be turned away.

 

Hi Greatam,

 

Good luck with your hotel in Phnom Penh. Cambodia is on our "list" for 2009.

 

I just want to say that we were in Vietnam 2 years ago and in China last year. While we did have to show passports on checking in at each hotel, and the details were written down, we were never asked to leave our passports with the hotel.

 

We were travelling as part of an organised tour group. Perhaps that made a difference? Also, members of our group came from Australia, New Zealand and the UK. No Americans. Perhaps that made a difference too?

 

Back in the 1960s, I was required to leave my passport with hotel staff in France. That requirement no longer exists.

 

I would prefer to always keep my passport in my possession, and I travel with photocopies of its photo and issuing details pages, so that I can leave those with hotel staff if they do not write down passport details as I check in.

 

However, I appreciate that sometimes it is necessary to surrender the passport itself. I guess you just have to be prepared to approach the whole question on a case-by-case basis.

[PurpleCow]

I'm thinking that this thread is mis-titled. To surrender your passport you would be giving it over to someone permanently and you become stateless. When you hand your passport to a hotel or cruise ship, you are not "surrendering" it. Of course you should never surrender your passport to anyone (who isn't pointing a gun at you),

[greatam]

Hi Greatam,

 

Good luck with your hotel in Phnom Penh. Cambodia is on our "list" for 2009.

 

Thanks

 

 

We were travelling as part of an organised tour group. Perhaps that made a difference? Also, members of our group came from Australia, New Zealand and the UK. No Americans. Perhaps that made a difference too?

 

 

You hit the nail on the head. Organized tours in the three Communist countries that border each other: the tour operator has to turn in a minute by minute itinerary so they can find you any time of the day. Plus they are supposed to have supplied all you info BEFORE you get to Vietnam or Cambodia.

 

If there is a local guide, who are 95% of the time licensed by the government, they totally responsible for you. If they mess up and change the itinerary, they have to notify the police of the change. If they mess up and one of their tour people get away from the tour group on a permanent basis, they can be imprisoned.

 

Vietnam, at certain border and river crossings, is the only country I have ever been in that checks your luggage on the way OUT of the country. What they think you are smuggling OUT of Vietnam is beyond me??? I asked one time-I thought they were looking for drugs-nope. And most of the artifacts that are not in museums were destroyed during the many years of war. So who knows what they are looking for.

 

There has been tremendous investment in Vietnam (and some in Cambodia) by the Aussies and Kiwis. Qantas even owns 30% of Vietnam Airlines. JetStar also flies into Vietnam.

 

China-with the new rules and China's EXTREME paranoia working up to the Olympics-EVERYONE is leaving passports. China is scared to death someone is going to hold up a sign that says "Free Tibet" on TV or run naked through the streets with DARFUR on their butt. A trip to the Olympics could be a real eye opener to westerners.

[ItaliaBella]

Italia Bella - If you go via ship you don't have to turn over your passport in Russia infact you simply carry it - show it at immigration and they stamp it going in and out. If you are on a tour with an independant operator you get a little red card which you may not loose put into your passport - this is collected everytime you return to the ship. However no one has to turn their passport in. We have just done SPB so there should be no discrepancy there

 

Thank you for clarifying that for me. I was expecting to turn my passports over to Celebrity for the Russian stop.

[sail7seas]

I think those who are protesting about turning over their passports are perhaps inexperienced travelers....some may have never traveled internationally and their comments are hypothetical. Never having been there and done that, they speak from their arm chairs.

 

I certainly could be mistaken and they are highly traveled but they don't sound it IMO

 

[Moeve]

I think those who are protesting about turning over their passports are perhaps inexperienced travelers....some may have never traveled internationally and their comments are hypothetical. Never having been there and done that, they speak from their arm chairs.

 

I certainly could be mistaken and they are highly traveled but they don't sound it IMO

 

 

NO I might even be travelling more than you, but I have a client who is afraid of opening the door or his post box and is a mental and physical wreak right now because he is the victim of a true ID theft. He never knows if the cops are ther to arrest him again for something. He has gone to writing hourly reports and has everyone including his clients sign the reports so that when the police come by the next time he can account for pretty much every waking hour of the day.

 

Where did he get his ID lifted - well it currently looks like it got lift on a US trip either at a SF or NY hotel since these hotels required photostat copies of his passport and some of his passport details are being used tooo. It is an absolute nightmare!!! I wish it upon no one!!! They have killed his CC details even his passport has been reissued with a new number (as if it had been lost) but there are still things happening and due to the extent of his problems he is currently denied entry into the US.

 

Do you now understand why being so careful is SOOO imperative!!!