New Dress Code Clarifications! PLEASE READ!

[nadalina]

"Smart Casual" and "Casual" are totally different, in my opinion. To me, smart casual still means dress slacks for men or women but never jeans. If Celebrity said just simply "Casual", then I could understand all of this confusion and controversy. But, regardless, I guess I just simply don't understand why anyone would even want to wear jeans to dinner in such elegant surroundings, but that's just my personal feeling.

[bar_20]

Judging from the original post wearing my bib overalls to the main dining room is ok as long as I wear a shirt with a collar!:D

[cvanhorn]

Judging from the original post wearing my bib overalls to the main dining room is ok as long as I wear a shirt with a collar!:D

And Sleeves! :)

[Hypo]

And Sleeves! :)

 

And I have seen this happen. On both Carnival and Royal Caribbean.

 

Rather shabby, IMO.

 

Hypo

[cvanhorn]

Rather shabby, IMO. Hypo

 

Fully agree!! Nice jeans I can see (I only started wearing dress/walking shorts last summer, until then it has always been jeans.) Those men who talk like jeans are hot must not wear them. Jeans are mostly 100% cotton and breathe, a lot of mens slacks are manmade materials that don't.

[jt1120]

OK gang, please stop with the labeling.

 

Referring to some as "elitists" or "snobs" and to others as "special people" or "trailer trash" is not only inappropriate and unnecessary in a civil discussion, it is also a violation of our Community Guidelines.

 

Stay with the topic, please.

 

Thanks.

 

You are correct, Walt, and if I have offended anybody with any of my posts, I humbly apologize. I was moved to write the "immature..." comment after reading many pages of debate, someone had to chime in and say, "well, jeans are pants," which I found immature. Again, sorry for the rant, I did not mean anything by it.

 

I will, however, defend my passion for traditional dress codes. For those who prefer a more relaxed environment on board (jeans in the dining room), I have to wonder why. Is it so difficult to dress up for a couple of hours on a cruise? I take things to the extreme on a cruise. I'm the guy who wears a sport jacket to the dining room on non-formal nights. I like dressing up for dinner (I'm not being elitist) and I honestly feel that it adds to the cruise experience when everyone in the dining room is dressed appropriately. To shed jeans for a nice pair of Dockers or slacks can't be that terrible, can it?

 

I know that others can switch my logic all around by saying that it isn't so bad to wear dress jeans to dinner, and I do see your point. My only question then would be, why should the traditions of cruising be changed?

 

Regardless, my friends, happy cruising to everyone, and let's hope that things get spelled out once and for all, so we can move onto other debates...

 

...like bad coffee in the dining room. Oops.

[cvanhorn]

My only question then would be, why should the traditions of cruising be changed?

 

I beleive the "traditions of cruising" changed as the population changed. Remember that the "traditions of flying" were for men to wear their Sunday suit and hat while women wore their best gowns back in the "trimotor" days. Cruising was the same way back when the idea of a cruise was to get from here to there, mostly across the ocean voyages, not what we have today of a couple of sea days with a port intensive itinerary. Also you use to bring several trunks full of clothes for your voyage from New York to England, now you are limited to what fits in the car trunk or what the airline will allow.

 

What is the differance between Dockers and nice jeans? If everyone were arguing for dress slacks versus jeans/Dockers that would be a legitimate argument.

 

Back to why the "traditions of cruising" changed. In a word, MONEY!! the cruise lines, including Celebrity, compete with one another on price and as long as you are selling cabins for $80/night (our 15 night San Diego R/T Hawaii in November on the Mercury came in at $71/night/PP) you are going to attract a lot of people who just want the Vacaton experience. A line that charged more than $200/night for the lowest inside category would probably have no problem with people wearing less than a Tux on Formal night if it was advertised as an elegant, formal, dressup cruise. The cruise lines give the people what they want, if a Large Majority of paying customers want to wear Speedos to the dining room then the lines would change the rules to include them. If you must place blame, then NCL started it with Freestyle, Carnival allows Jeans in all but one Main dining room, etc. We can discuss traditions, right/wrong all we want, but the customer drives policy with their ticket dollars. Look what happened when someone tried a Non-smoking cruise, even though Non-smokers (in the U.S.) are in the majority they didn't flock to the idea enough to be fisically feasible.

[Giorgi-one]

What is the differance between Dockers and nice jeans? If everyone were arguing for dress slacks versus jeans/Dockers that would be a legitimate argument.

 

The cruise lines give the people what they want, if a Large Majority of paying customers want to wear Speedos to the dining room then the lines would change the rules to include them. .

 

Totally agree with above portions of this post. My personal feeling is the neithr Dockers khakis or jeans really qualify as Resort Casual.

 

Also agree that the customers really control the dress codes. If many or most start to ignore the suggested codes, then that becomes the new dress code - wear whatever you want.

[madelinerose]

Back to why the "traditions of cruising" changed. In a word, MONEY!! The cruise lines give the people what they want, if a Large Majority of paying customers want to wear Speedos to the dining room then the lines would change the rules to include them. We can discuss traditions, right/wrong all we want, but the customer drives policy with their ticket dollars.

 

Amen. There's not a corporation on this planet willing to sacrifice their bottom line for so-called "tradition".

 

The "traditions of cruising" was then.....this is now and now is all we have. ;)

[madelinerose]

I will, however, defend my passion for traditional dress codes.

 

Will you be dressing "traditionally", as in tux, on your NCL Sky cruise in October?

[Sky Sweet]

Totally agree with above portions of this post. My personal feeling is the neithr Dockers khakis or jeans really qualify as Resort Casual.

 

Also agree that the customers really control the dress codes. If many or most start to ignore the suggested codes, then that becomes the new dress code - wear whatever you want.

 

Giorgi-one, here is something to think about - Not that long ago business executives at Fortune 500 companies wore a suit to work everyday. Now most MBA executives at the same corporations are wearing khakis with a nice shirt instead, so most people today have a completely different perception of a man in khakis than they did a few years ago. With that in mind, I think a nice pair of khakis definitely qualifies as resort casual or smart casual.

[rolfecms]

Giorgi-one, here is something to think about - Not that long ago business executives at Fortune 500 companies wore a suit to work everyday. Now most MBA executives at the same corporations are wearing khakis with a nice shirt instead, so most people today have a completely different perception of a man in khakis than they did a few years ago. With that in mind, I think a nice pair of khakis definitely qualifies as resort casual or smart casual.

 

I believe that's a subject for a whole different (non-cruise) forum - to share feelings on those who lament or applaud how casual our culture has become.

[Sky Sweet]

I believe that's a subject for a whole different (non-cruise) forum - to share feelings on those who lament or applaud how casual our culture has become.

 

Rolfecms - The point I was trying to make pertains to cruising. If a corporate executive with an MBA works at a Fortune 500 company that considers khakis to be "business casual", that person is likely to consider them good enough for resort casual/smart casual on a cruise, as well. Keep in mind that "business casual" is very different than casual day at the office.

 

It is also important to consider that many terms we use today have a different meaning than they did at one time. For example, when I took economics during the sixties, there were only four occupations that would qualify a person to call himself a "professional". Now the definition of that word has expanded to the point that the term professional is almost meaningless.

[rolfecms]

Rolfecms - The point I was trying to make pertains to cruising. If a corporate executive with an MBA works at a Fortune 500 company that considers khakis to be "business casual", that person is likely to consider them good enough for resort casual/smart casual on a cruise, as well.

 

Ok, so now for my say: I'm quite familiar with your observation because I happen to work in downdown Chicago where the dress code now varys (based on the day of the week and the whims of upper management) from too casual to way too casual in my opinion - and as you can tell I wholeheartedly disagree with it but must abide by it because it is company policy. I feel I've been forced into this mode against my will and better judgement and would change it in an instant if I were given a choice in the matter.

 

However, just because I must live with this five days a week does not mean I want to do the same thing away from the office - or that I've lost sight of what 'dressing up' can mean to heighten the specialness of an occasion. So for me an =X= cruise has given me the oportunity for a vacation from this forced casualness - in an environment where I can enjoy the company of those who prefer the ambiance provided by well-dressed people partaking of wonderful food, service and entertainment.

[Giorgi-one]

Giorgi-one, here is something to think about - Not that long ago business executives at Fortune 500 companies wore a suit to work everyday. Now most MBA executives at the same corporations are wearing khakis with a nice shirt instead, so most people today have a completely different perception of a man in khakis than they did a few years ago. With that in mind, I think a nice pair of khakis definitely qualifies as resort casual or smart casual.

 

It was just my opinion - don't like khakis for elegant dining rooms or specialty restaurants on a cruise ship. Also, if I wear it to work, I would never wear it on vacation.

[Giorgi-one]

Ok, so now for my say: I'm quite familiar with your observation because I happen to work in downdown Chicago where the dress code now varys (based on the day of the week and the whims of upper management) from too casual to way too casual in my opinion - and as you can tell I wholeheartedly disagree with it but must abide by it because it is company policy. I feel I've been forced into this mode against my will and better judgement and would change it in an instant if I were given a choice in the matter.

 

However, just because I must live with this five days a week does not mean I want to do the same thing away from the office - or that I've lost sight of what 'dressing up' can mean to heighten the specialness of an occasion. So for me an =X= vacation has given me the oportunity for a vacation from this forced casualness - in an environment where I can enjoy the company of those who prefer the ambiance provided by well-dressed people partaking of wonderful food, service and entertainment.

 

AMEN! I think I have been trying to say this for quite a while and just could not put it the way you did. Thanks.

[Ardy53]

...

"business casual", ... "resort casual/smart casual"

 

It is also important to consider that many terms we use today have a different meaning than they did at one time.

 

Plus "white-tie", black-tie", "smart casual", "country club casual" etc

 

It might be prudent to consider that these terms might have different meanings outside of the USA....

 

Roy

[Captain Jake]

Fully agree!! Nice jeans I can see (I only started wearing dress/walking shorts last summer, until then it has always been jeans.) Those men who talk like jeans are hot must not wear them. Jeans are mostly 100% cotton and breathe, a lot of mens slacks are manmade materials that don't.

 

I wear jeans,but not during the summer because they are way to hot at least the standard fare.They make light weight ones that are the same weight as dockers type pants that are comfortable during the warmer months---BT

[FinelyCruising]

I HATE DRESS CODE THREADS ANYMORE. CAN'T WE FIND SOMETHING BETTER TO TALK ABOUT BESIDES FRIGGIN' PANTS AND WHAT THEY ARE MADE OF???

 

Let's talk about men who wear sandals that need a pedicure. :cool:

[Ma Bell]

Hi Cheryl,

I've never seen sandals that need a pedicure.:D :D :D

[jt1120]

Here is the email I received yesterday from Celebrity:

 

In light of the most recent change in policies within Celebrity Cruises we must advise that, in fact, jeans will not be allowed in the dining room under any circumstances during dinner hours. Celebrity does not consider jeans as pants and thus must express that they will not be accepted. Recently our website has been updated and the typographical error that included jeans was removed. We hope that soon the controversy will cease and all guests will understand and accept our new policy.

 

We appreciate your feed back as it helps us to develop and grow into a better company. We look forward to welcoming you onboard a Celebrity cruise in the near future.

Finally, I get my answer in print. My guess is that we'll be seeing it on their website soon as well. Now I'm REALLY looking forward to my Solstice cruise in November!

 

Will you be dressing "traditionally", as in tux, on your NCL Sky cruise in October?

 

Much as I would like to wear my tux, I shall not bring it along. Sadly, one of the reasons that NCL is not my favorite line is their "optional" formal night. What can I say, I like to dress up, so I'll pack a sport jacket instead. Still, NCL is a good line, and I'm looking forward to seeing what they've done to the Sky. They have some beautiful ships. Wanna wear jeans to dinner? Cruise NCL!

[madelinerose]

Much as I would like to wear my tux, I shall not bring it along. Sadly, one of the reasons that NCL is not my favorite line is their "optional" formal night.

 

Surprised, considering your passion for traditional dress codes and you do have the option to dress traditionally, in a tux.

[rolfecms]

Surprised, considering your passion for traditional dress codes and you do have the option to dress traditionally, in a tux.

 

It should not be a surprise, if you've sailed NCL. It's one thing to dress formally when others do, but my experience was that it was a total 'free for all' (pun intended) which for me does not make for the appropriate ambiance to wear evening clothes. That's one of the reasons we'll not be cruising NCL anytime soon.

 

While I don't speak for JT1120 that would be my reason for wearing a sport coat - and that's exactly what I plan to do for smart casual nights on =X=.

[rolfecms]

Here is the email I received yesterday from Celebrity:

 

In light of the most recent change in policies within Celebrity Cruises we must advise that, in fact, jeans will not be allowed in the dining room under any circumstances during dinner hours. Celebrity does not consider jeans as pants and thus must express that they will not be accepted. Recently our website has been updated and the typographical error that included jeans was removed. We hope that soon the controversy will cease and all guests will understand and accept our new policy.

We appreciate your feed back as it helps us to develop and grow into a better company. We look forward to welcoming you onboard a Celebrity cruise in the near future.

 

JT1120, thank's so much for following through on this. It appears from =X='s reply that they were deluged with concerns about this and your work has paid off. :D

[Cruise Arizona]

I got a reply last week that said that stupid things about jeans would not be officially allowed but pax would not be turned away for wearing them. Then two days later Anne started this thread which completely contradicted the e-mail they sent. So I forwarded the note back to them, referenced Anne's post and asked them to resend me my response. Hopefully I will get the same answer that you got, and that the Web Site will reflect a more detailed explaination of their dining room policy.

 

Also, maybe a more detailed policy of thier "prevailing evening dress code of smart casual or better" through-out the ship. I think what they are trying to do is set up the dress code so that all evenings are smart casual or better. Which means if you don't dress for formal dinner, you atleast need to meet the Smart Casual or Better guidelines for the theater or lounges? That would allow people to change out of their ultra formal clothes into smart casual should they choose. I'm not sure what it means for people who want to wear shorts and do casual dinning? I personally love dressing up and never change after dinner unless I've spilled something on my gown or something like that, but I've seen people who do like to change, and I know there are many members here who express that they like to change into other clothes after dinner.

 

I'm babbling now:p. But I would like to see very clear language about the prevailing dress code thing. Specifics about where you should be wearing your smart casual and where you can be casual casual? (ie, shorts and T's?) On formal where is smart casual acceptable and what venues require formal wear? Hopefully they will be very specific and achieve their goal of providing passengers with a clear dress code definition and not confuse passengers.