Southwest - next dates announced

[Merion_Mom]

"Since you’re a Rapid Rewards Member, we wanted you to be the first to know that on Thursday, November 6, 2008, we plan to extend the Southwest Airlines flight schedule to begin accepting reservations through May 8, 2009. That means you can start planning your Award travel for warm weather getaways and springtime fun! Just keep in mind that Spring Break and Easter are popular travel days, so you’ll have better opportunities to use your Awards if you have flexible travel plans. And with our recent announcement to begin modest service between Minneapolis/St. Paul and Chicago Midway next spring, you’ll be able to redeem your Award to a new destination!

 

Mark your calendar for next Thursday, November 6, and begin planning your travel at southwest.com."

[chitowngoose]

Not only that, the other major airlines that compete in those markets will now have Southwest pricing to compete with.

Look for pricing deals from the others as they swoop to try to come close to Southwest's pricing. The pricing for winter/spring has been dismal with few inexpensive seats available. Look for the other carriers to open more low cost seats.

Lower fuel bills will also be a factor as well for the airlines.

[bruce-r]

"Since you’re a Rapid Rewards Member, we wanted you to be the first to know that on Thursday, November 6, 2008, we plan to extend the Southwest Airlines flight schedule to begin accepting reservations through May 8, 2009.."

 

While helpful, that information has been posted on their website for weeks now.

[Globaliser]

While helpful, that information has been posted on their website for weeks now.

And for weeks on this website too! In many, many threads.

[steve20832]

"Since you’re a Rapid Rewards Member, we wanted you to be the first to know that on Thursday, November 6, 2008, we plan to extend the Southwest Airlines flight schedule to begin accepting reservations through May 8, 2009. That means you can start planning your Award travel for warm weather getaways and springtime fun! Just keep in mind that Spring Break and Easter are popular travel days, so you’ll have better opportunities to use your Awards if you have flexible travel plans. And with our recent announcement to begin modest service between Minneapolis/St. Paul and Chicago Midway next spring, you’ll be able to redeem your Award to a new destination!

 

Mark your calendar for next Thursday, November 6, and begin planning your travel at southwest.com."

 

I just moved to Minneapolis from Baltimore and flew Southwest many times. I've been a Rapid Rewards member for many years too and now I'm wondering where my email is...hmmmmm

It's nice to have them here but is would be even nicer if they flew to more than just one city. Going to Chicago is nice if you are going South or East but it doesn't help if you are going to the West coast. I'm surprised they didn't fly to Denver as well to handle west coast traffic.

[racegrrl]

I just moved to Minneapolis from Baltimore and flew Southwest many times. I've been a Rapid Rewards member for many years too and now I'm wondering where my email is...hmmmmm

It's nice to have them here but is would be even nicer if they flew to more than just one city. Going to Chicago is nice if you are going South or East but it doesn't help if you are going to the West coast. I'm surprised they didn't fly to Denver as well to handle west coast traffic.

 

Wondering where our email is as well . . . we fly SW many times a year. And there are lots of direct flights west on SW out of Chicago. We travel them west frequently.

[greatam]

Not only that, the other major airlines that compete in those markets will now have Southwest pricing to compete with.

Look for pricing deals from the others as they swoop to try to come close to Southwest's pricing. The pricing for winter/spring has been dismal with few inexpensive seats available. Look for the other carriers to open more low cost seats.

Lower fuel bills will also be a factor as well for the airlines.

 

You have it backwards. Southwest WAITS to see what prices the other airlines have currently and have already sold. By the time WN opens up their schedule, the cheap seats have been sold on the other airlines. Southwest has NO incentive to price their seats lower, as the cheapest seats have already been sold. Quite drinking the Kool-Aid. Southwest is no longer the bargain, except in a few markets, it was at one time.

 

Lower fuel bills compared to July, YES. Lower fuel bills compared to same time period October 2007-NO. Still about 15% higher than a year ago. Wide variances in prices (more than $2.00 per gallon) between the Midwest and East/West Coasts.

 

And Southwest just had to write off a HUGE chunk of money for their fuel hedges. They have NO incentive to sell cheap seats anymore.

[UpstateCruizer]

You have it backwards. Southwest WAITS to see what prices the other airlines have currently and have already sold. By the time WN opens up their schedule, the cheap seats have been sold on the other airlines. Southwest has NO incentive to price their seats lower, as the cheapest seats have already been sold. Quite drinking the Kool-Aid. Southwest is no longer the bargain, except in a few markets, it was at one time.

 

Lower fuel bills compared to July, YES. Lower fuel bills compared to same time period October 2007-NO. Still about 15% higher than a year ago. Wide variances in prices (more than $2.00 per gallon) between the Midwest and East/West Coasts.

 

And Southwest just had to write off a HUGE chunk of money for their fuel hedges. They have NO incentive to sell cheap seats anymore.

 

I just received an email from them this morning will killer flight deals from Albany NY to several destinations. Out of curiosity I went through the steps to book flights rount trip from Albany to Baltimore just to see what the prices were. $59 flights and after taxes and such for 2 people it was only $255 total. Now if only I had a cruise booked out of Balltimore and could take advantage of that! I didn't dare look at any other flights for fear I'd find something that was irresistabe and I'd be booking a mini vacation in the near future. :) BTW I keep seeing the "experts" on here posting about "drinking the kool aid". What is the meaning behind that as I'm sure most adults have long outgrown the desire for kool aid so there must be something I'm not aware of?

[cherylandtk]

I keep seeing the "experts" on here posting about "drinking the kool aid". What is the meaning behind that as I'm sure most adults have long outgrown the desire for kool aid so there must be something I'm not aware of?

It means blindly following or believing others and not questioning their sanity. Jonestown, 1978, cyanide, mass suicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kool-Aid

[SelectSys]

I just moved to Minneapolis from Baltimore and flew Southwest many times. I've been a Rapid Rewards member for many years too and now I'm wondering where my email is...hmmmmm

It's nice to have them here but is would be even nicer if they flew to more than just one city. Going to Chicago is nice if you are going South or East but it doesn't help if you are going to the West coast. I'm surprised they didn't fly to Denver as well to handle west coast traffic.

 

One of the reasons that Southwest has been successful over the years is that they open up a new base slowly rather than impulsively launch service to many cities all at once. With the merger of DW and NW and the likely reduction in flights it coud be that Southwest will fill some of the void. Denver, Phoenix, and Las Vegas may be in the next wave of Southwest flights announced from Minneapolis. Southwest would not open a station in Minneapolis if they only believed it would support a couple of flights to Midway.

[steve20832]

One of the reasons that Southwest has been successful over the years is that they open up a new base slowly rather than impulsively launch service to many cities all at once. With the merger of DW and NW and the likely reduction in flights it coud be that Southwest will fill some of the void. Denver, Phoenix, and Las Vegas may be in the next wave of Southwest flights announced from Minneapolis. Southwest would not open a station in Minneapolis if they only believed it would support a couple of flights to Midway.

 

I was living an hour away from Washington Dulles when they started flying there (right after Independance Air went bankrupt) SWA flew to 4 key cities when they started there (and still only fly to those same 4 cities)

The interesting thing about MSP is SWA has 2 gates and only fly to one city It is unknown at this time how many flights will go from MSP to MDW per day but the schedule comes out next week so we'll find out soon.

As far as the Delta/NWA merger, rumor is only a handful of flights be be cancelled and those are just the duplicates (example: such as both Delta and NWA fly the same route MSP > ATL or MSP > SLC) NWA has been expanding the International routes here.

I know SWA is 'testing' the market to see how it goes but my guess is they will start one or two more cities soon. The MSP > MDW route is not a good idea in the winter with no redundency.

My personal opnion is it would make sence to fly to Denver (to handle west coast traffic) and Nashville or St. Louis to handle Florida and the Southeast along with the Chicago route

If Sun Country goes bankrupt, I think SWA will take over even more gates.

[UpstateCruizer]

It means blindly following or believing others and not questioning their sanity. Jonestown, 1978, cyanide, mass suicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kool-Aid

 

 

Thanks :) It's still difficult to figure out why the "experts" have such a hatred for an airline that is able to meet the needs of the pasengers who chose to fly on it? I wouldn't call that blindly following or ignorant just a choice that fits the expectations of those flying. Comparing airline passengers to a horrid tragedy involving a cult is a bit extreme. :eek:

[greatam]

Thanks :) It's still difficult to figure out why the "experts" have such a hatred for an airline that is able to meet the needs of the pasengers who chose to fly on it? I wouldn't call that blindly following or ignorant just a choice that fits the expectations of those flying. Comparing airline passengers to a horrid tragedy involving a cult is a bit extreme. :eek:

 

First off, "expert" some of us are. Personally, I fly over 100,000 miles per year AND move people and freight on airlines every day of the year. It's what I do for a living and if I wasn't an "expert", I would have been out of business long ago.

 

As for the Kool-Aid comment: Compare it to WalMart. For years, Southwest AND Walmart have advertised "low fare leader", "lowest price", etc., etc. You booked a Southwest flight for the lowest price. You shopped at Walmart for the cheapest prices on shampoo, dog food, towels and other staple goods.

 

In the past few years, Southwest AND WalMart no longer have any incentive to be the cheapest. People have "drunk the Kool Aid" and just instinctively BELIEVE that Southwest and WalMart have the cheapest prices. They just automatically gravitate to Southwest and WalMart looking for the cheapest prices and BELIEVING they are getting the cheapest prices.

 

WalMart, with their tremendous buying power, is RARELY the cheapest for most food anymore. In fact, both in Phoenix and Missouri/Iowa, WalMart meat and produce is HIGHER (considerably) than Fry's (Kroger) in Arizona and Hy-Vee in Missouri/Iowa.

 

TODAY, people still BELIEVE SW has the cheapest prices. From some markets, not well served by the legacy airlines, YES. But from most places-cheaper prices (or as cheap), assigned seating, FF miles that actually get you someplace other than Islip, NY, and all the perks are available on the legacies. And by the time SW opens up their schedule, you have generally passed up the CHEAPEST prices. You "drank the Kool-Aid".

[SelectSys]

... It's still difficult to figure out why the "experts" have such a hatred for an airline that is able to meet the needs of the pasengers who chose to fly on it? ...

 

Some of the recurring objections typically raised against Southwest include:

 

1) Lack of first and/or business class - everyone is in coach and no upgrades are available for frequent flyers

 

2) Lack of international long haul service - can't get to international destinations. This seems to be especially bothersome when trying to use FF miles

 

3) Uninteresting FF destinations - tied to 2 above

 

4) No interline agreements - if something goes wrong, you won't be transferred to another airline to get you to you destination

 

5) No real FF partnerships with other airlines - this is tied to 2 & 3

 

6) Lack of reserved seats - Need to be aware of how the check-in system works or you get a bad seat. They also provide early boarding to their most frequent passengers.

 

7) Lack of onboard meals - crackers and peanuts alone can be tough on a cross county flight if you did have an opportunity to eat or bring food onboard.

 

8) Not really a low fare airline anymore - if you plan far enough out it is usually possible to get a lower coach fare on another airline.

 

9) Don't like the onboard humor of the staff - it is part of the Southwest culture and some don't like it.

 

10) Successful fuel hedging program - while they and every other airline has lost money on hedges of late, it has been a big competitive advantage for them for many years. Some seem to view this as not playing fair or that Southwest is just a lucky gambler.

 

While I am not in LUV with Southwest, they are certainly on my respected airline list as a quality carrier that delivers good value to its customers.

[Shorex]

Southwest has little to offer very frequent flyers for the reasons specified by SelectSys. However, they have targeted a specific market and they serve that market well. The genius of Southwest is not is their fuel hedging, but in the ability to create the (albeit false) impression in the minds of the infrequently flying public that they will always have the best fares to every market they serve. Whatever element of truth of that impression may have existed in the past, now it's just hype.

 

We have seen numerous examples of posters on this board who have bypassed excellent fares on major carriers in favor of waiting with bated breath for the release of the Southwest schedule, only to be sorely disappointed.

 

It is frustrating to observe infrequent flyers making purchase decisions based on emotion and false assumptions, rather than objective analysis.

[Karynanne]

First off, "expert" some of us are. Personally, I fly over 100,000 miles per year AND move people and freight on airlines every day of the year. It's what I do for a living and if I wasn't an "expert", I would have been out of business long ago.

 

As for the Kool-Aid comment: Compare it to WalMart. For years, Southwest AND Walmart have advertised "low fare leader", "lowest price", etc., etc. You booked a Southwest flight for the lowest price. You shopped at Walmart for the cheapest prices on shampoo, dog food, towels and other staple goods.

 

In the past few years, Southwest AND WalMart no longer have any incentive to be the cheapest. People have "drunk the Kool Aid" and just instinctively BELIEVE that Southwest and WalMart have the cheapest prices. They just automatically gravitate to Southwest and WalMart looking for the cheapest prices and BELIEVING they are getting the cheapest prices.

 

WalMart, with their tremendous buying power, is RARELY the cheapest for most food anymore. In fact, both in Phoenix and Missouri/Iowa, WalMart meat and produce is HIGHER (considerably) than Fry's (Kroger) in Arizona and Hy-Vee in Missouri/Iowa.

 

TODAY, people still BELIEVE SW has the cheapest prices. From some markets, not well served by the legacy airlines, YES. But from most places-cheaper prices (or as cheap), assigned seating, FF miles that actually get you someplace other than Islip, NY, and all the perks are available on the legacies. And by the time SW opens up their schedule, you have generally passed up the CHEAPEST prices. You "drank the Kool-Aid".

 

I'm in total agreement with your statements. Those of us that have flown Southwest for many years, have been in the "mind-set", that it had the cheapest fares...provided a decent service...and could get us from point A to point B.

 

But in the past few years, this hasn't been the case. I now book Jet Blue from SFO to FLL or JFK. I enjoy the amenities on the longer flights, and the comfort of their seats.

 

It's all about choice.

[UpstateCruizer]

Ok now I understand better. I have to keep reminding myself that not everyone spends as much time looking for "the best flights possible at a price I'm willing to pay". I don't hold out for Southwest flights thinking they are the lowest price. This is why I'm currently booked on United for $370 pp after taxes for flights to LAX. That was a deal I couldn't resist at the time. I do still consider Southwest an option if they are flying where I want to go but not because of the "lowest price" thinking but because I've had positive experiences on the last flights we took with them. They are able to meet my needs now that they no longer have "cattle style boarding". If that hadn't changed I would not have flown with them after my first experience. Paying more for flights that I was standing in line for hours to gurantee a seat next to my dh would not have been worth it regardless of how cheap they were. :)

[UpstateCruizer]

I'm in total agreement with your statements. Those of us that have flown Southwest for many years, have been in the "mind-set", that it had the cheapest fares...provided a decent service...and could get us from point A to point B.

 

But in the past few years, this hasn't been the case. I now book Jet Blue from SFO to FLL or JFK. I enjoy the amenities on the longer flights, and the comfort of their seats.

 

It's all about choice.

 

My dh has wanted to try Jet Blue but they have been rediculously high for the flights we've looked into. In some cases the departure flights were going to cost us more than a round trip on Delta or Us Air :eek: .

[FlyerTalker]

Remember.....airline pricing is something like this:

 

(Supply/demand) + Yield management - Competitive pressure - Market Share considerations + Seasonal factors all factored by current availability = Pricing.

 

Just because B6 may be high on a particular flight, doesn't necessarily relate to the price on another flight (different day/time). The true basis is to look at the relevant fares that have been filed by the airline (available through Expert Flyer and other sources) - beyond that, it's a matter of fare bucket availability of those various rates.

[gargoyle999]

I just moved to Minneapolis from Baltimore and flew Southwest many times.

 

Welcome to the Twin Cities! :)

[SelectSys]

...TODAY, people still BELIEVE SW has the cheapest prices...

 

They may exist, but many if not not most people fly WN for reasons other than price. One thing that I do believe is that WN typically charges a fair price. Historically, I rarely feel like I'm getting gouged by them for last minute travel like I have on other carriers. It isn't as bad now as the legacies have once again been forced to react somewhat to WN's pricing model.

 

...The genius of Southwest is not is their fuel hedging, but in the ability to create the (albeit false) impression in the minds of the infrequently flying public that they will always have the best fares to every market they serve...

 

This is too narrow a view in my mind regarding WN's success. You don't build up a leading airline with a industry leading financial results and high passenger satisfaction through deception. WN is probably taught about in leading business schools as case study of how to build, grow, and maintain a business.

 

To me the genius of Southwest is they developed a unique business model, have had great leadership and management, and have stayed true to their core values over many years.

 

My dh has wanted to try Jet Blue but they have been rediculously high for the flights we've looked into. In some cases the departure flights were going to cost us more than a round trip on Delta or Us Air :eek: .

 

B6 has a better coach product by and large than DL or US - more seat pitch, leather, IFE, free beverages, lower fees for baggage (I think). On those grounds you should pay more. My only issue with B6 is that their A320 aircraft have somewhat limited range and are forced to make unscheduled tech stops when the wind blows during winter on east-west US transcon flights.

[biggerbearmom]

What time can one begin booking on Nov. 6th?

[greatam]

They may exist, but many if not not most people fly WN for reasons other than price. One thing that I do believe is that WN typically charges a fair price. Historically, I rarely feel like I'm getting gouged by them for last minute travel like I have on other carriers. It isn't as bad now as the legacies have once again been forced to react somewhat to WN's pricing model.

 

 

You aren't serious, are you???? Southwest's entire advertising campaign FOR YEARS has been "LOW FARE LEADER". Do a Google search for those key words and you get Southwest, Ryan Air and Zoom (that is now out of business).

 

Over 25 years ago, when Southwest started flying outside Texas, their whole schtick was CHEAP FLIGHTS + FUN. Almost like PSA on the California coast during the 70's-early 80's. They even had smiles on their planes.

 

I remember when Southwest started flying into MCI and LAX, early 80's. Full page ads in the LA Times, Kansas City and Des Moines papers. The ads touted CHEAP!!!

[SelectSys]

You aren't serious, are you???? Southwest's entire advertising campaign FOR YEARS has been "LOW FARE LEADER". Do a Google search for those key words and you get Southwest, Ryan Air and Zoom (that is now out of business).

 

It could be market-specific, but in San Diego their advertising seems as much tied to frequency of service as price and "freedom" as much as price. Certainly the price pitch is part of it, but it isn't exclusive. Their frequent flyer base, and it is substantial in CA, values reasonable fares and frequent service. I know several people that fly WN them multiple times per week that swear by the airline as being the absolute best for getting them home quickly.

 

BTW - Too bad Zoom died as they provided SAN's only non-stop service to Europe (seasonal). The summer oil bubble killed them. I also read that FR's MOL is looking to pick up cheap aircraft to start a new international airline based on the existing carriers deferring orders with Boeing and Airbus. He is also still hoping for the recession to kill more carriers.

 

Over 25 years ago, when Southwest started flying outside Texas, their whole schtick was CHEAP FLIGHTS + FUN. Almost like PSA on the California coast during the 70's-early 80's. They even had smiles on their planes.

 

What a sad episode the purchase of PSA by US Air. I have several family members that were associated with PSA in both management and operational positions. I know people that still travel with PSA luggage tags. It was truly San Diego's airline!

 

I remember when Southwest started flying into MCI and LAX, early 80's. Full page ads in the LA Times, Kansas City and Des Moines papers. The ads touted CHEAP!!!

 

Perhaps this was true almost 30 years ago (time flies!) but I believe that WN's strategy is much more nuanced these days than simply selling the cheapest seat. Consider the current "freedom from fees" campaign. This is just as much about WN's ability to provide a predictable price rather than having the absolute lowest fare.

 

Early 80's - I remember the $20 one way fares on Air Cal and PSA to get up and down the coast after moving to the South Bay for a while.

[greatam]

 

Perhaps this was true almost 30 years ago (time flies!) but I believe that WN's strategy is much more nuanced these days than simply selling the cheapest seat. Consider the current "freedom from fees" campaign. This is just as much about WN's ability to provide a predictable price rather than having the absolute lowest fare.

 

That's the whole point. They no longer NEED to stress "low fare leader". Everyone just ASSUMES they have the lowest price after 25 years of being beaten over the head with the "LOW FARE" advertising.

 

Early 80's - I remember the $20 one way fares on Air Cal and PSA to get up and down the coast after moving to the South Bay for a while.

 

I can remember flying PSA for MANY, MANY concerts in the Bay area as a poor college student. Janis Joplin, Jimmy Hendrix, Jefferson Airplane, etc. etc. all for a couple of bucks in lots of Haight dives. Best concert I think I ever saw-New Year's Eve, Cow Palace, 1973, Allman Brothers and Grateful Dead. Greg Allman floated over the crowd in a clear plastic balloon at midnight in a diaper. Boz Scaggs made an appearance and they actually performed most of Loan Me a Dime, which they swore they would never play again after Duane was killed. The concert went on and on and on and on.

 

Then the next night, again the Allman Brothers, with Marshall Tucker and Charlie Daniels. It was a free for all the next night. More artists on stage than there were mikes, people floating around in a large cloud of hippie smoke. Those were the days.