Carnival miracle bait and switch

[Kurbanfan]

Actually, I find this to be more true of the Cruise Line section than most others. If you go to the Ports of Call and several other forums here there aren't quite as many self-righteous posters. I generally believe that those who get high on their stick-horses have something lacking in their own lives that compels them to come here and blast any and all negative statements, including the valid ones. This is a valid one... it's parallel to ordering and being required to pay for filet mignon and a nice wine while being served a burger and a coke. Sure, they both fill you up, they may both tasted good, you don't leave hungry, but bottom line, you way overpaid for what you received. It's paying steakhouse prices for burger-joint food. Foolish.

 

I'm not one to rag on stupid things like chair hogs, what people wear in the dining rooms (if they're clean and dressed, I'm happy), that my steward didn't fold my towel just right, the ship decor, the quality of entertainment, blah, blah, blah... but when you put out big bucks for a 'more exotic' itinerary, you should be allowed at minimum to voice your displeasure when you are actually given a 'common' itinerary.

 

Sometimes (more often than not, in fact) I wish CC had a Gripe forum... maybe call it the Cranky Cruiser section, then all those who are bothered by the fact that some people just need an outlet when things go sour wouldn't have to even click the tab. They could stay where it's all warm and fuzzy and let those who get frostbitten on occasion just thaw out. Newbies would have somewhere to go to see the pitfalls of sailing and might not be taken by surprise when something does go wrong.

 

Off my own 'self-righteous' soapbox.

 

Merry Christmas to all! (Sub in Happy Holidays if you wish, for me, it's Merry Christmas!)

 

Very well said Sym:) I suppose there are some on here that would have no problem paying for steak and receiving hamburger;)

Merry Christmas to you as well:)

[Kurbanfan]

You are one of the few people who gets it. Carnival COULD communicate better and let folks know <earlier> and have a choice. Unfortunately Carnival knows the longer they wait to tell folks the less choices they have.

 

Do people really not get this??? Are they that undemanding of Carnival that they dont care where the ship goes or when they find out? Or is it because it's someone else's vacation they get up on their soap boxes to lecture others?? CC is really getting a bad reputation for having this type of poster in abundance. I know I started finding other cruise forums to post on where folks are actually nice. Can you imagine nice posters with empathy?? Unheard of here, well you have some empathy, but its few and far between from posters on CC. Maybe they just drive nice folks away is how they are taking over here on CC.

 

Firefly I think more people then not get it......there are just some that don't like to rock the boat so to speak (no pun intended lol) and then there are also some that do get it and because like you said as long as it doesn't personally effect them then it does not seem like such a big deal......

 

I personally love cruising, but I'm not a fool when it comes to what I get for my money......whether it is with Carnival or any other line.......

I'm platinum with Carnival, so obviously I like the product.

If some don't mind when they are obviously getting something for less then what they paid.......no skin off my back.

These kinds of threads are to me not just bitchfests, they are to inform and get feedback. If some don't like it they can certainly skip them........

Anyway got to go!

Merry Christmas!!!!

[Nyctor118]

.... it's parallel to ordering and being required to pay for filet mignon and a nice wine while being served a burger and a coke. Sure, they both fill you up, they may both tasted good, you don't leave hungry, but bottom line, you way overpaid for what you received. It's paying steakhouse prices for burger-joint food.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself. Since they only took us on a Western Caribbean cruise, they should have charged us the fare for a Western Caribbean cruise.

[wanna see the canal]

I booked on the 2/17 sailing of the Miracle bound for Costa Rico and Panama. I just looked at the current cruise page and found out that indeed what I booked on the Miracle can now be had for $300 less. Of course the cruise is not going to either of these ports but is staying 600 miles north of these countries.

I booked by phone with Carnival but the notice of the itinerery change was sent to my email address. When I did see it I could not open the attachment and had to get my wife (the smart one) to open it. I called Carnival and after talking to many "supervisors" was told that I would lose $600 (not to cancel but to cancel and book on the Carnival Freedom leaving on 2/14 which is going to Panama and Costa Rico.

I was willing to pay more money for a oceanview than I had for a balcony on the Miracle but no matter who I talked to I would have had to pay the $600 cancellation fee. They said they had extended their cancellation policy to 5 days because of the problem but that I had called to make the change on day 6.

I was beginning to accept the fact that I was going to cozumel instead of Limon and telling myself it was going to be good and then I began reading these threads and I am back to upset.

I paid for a Central American cruise and got the Mexican Riviera.

hamburger instead of steak.

Ok I am done venting but (and this is only my second cruise) I did not look at any cruise line except Carnival when planning both my cruises.

That won't happen again

[firefly333]

Ok I am done venting but (and this is only my second cruise) I did not look at any cruise line except Carnival when planning both my cruises.

That won't happen again

 

I would call back and keep calling back asking for a supervisor each time and get my cruise changed to the same cat on the other cruise. Nonsense having to pay a $600 cancellation fee because you didnt catch the change on time. I would call them every day twice a day until they fixed it for a Feb 09 upcoming cruise. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I would squeak until they shut me up.

 

If that supervisor cant fix it ask for that supervisor's supervisor and keep going up the ladder. Write down the names and ask for their phone numbers to call them back. Dont take no for a answer. They CAN fix this, just make sure they do. Its not your fault Carnival changed the cruise.

[waiting4acruise]

I don't understand how people can say that the Miracle's ongoing propulsion problem is not Carnival's fault. This is not a weather related event like the airlines had this week.

Carnival knew about this problem for several months and it would most likely change the itenary because of it. The OP is justified to feel cheated because Carnival deliberately made the itenary change announcement as late as possible so they would get very few cancelations.

[Jackrjc]

I would call back and keep calling back asking for a supervisor each time and get my cruise changed to the same cat on the other cruise. Nonsense having to pay a $600 cancellation fee because you didnt catch the change on time. I would call them every day twice a day until they fixed it for a Feb 09 upcoming cruise. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I would squeak until they shut me up.

 

If that supervisor cant fix it ask for that supervisor's supervisor and keep going up the ladder. Write down the names and ask for their phone numbers to call them back. Dont take no for a answer. They CAN fix this, just make sure they do. Its not your fault Carnival changed the cruise.

 

It would be interesting to see if your suggestion works. I hope it does. However, I called within 24 hours of receiving the email, within the time limit. All that got me was the ability to cancel without loss. The Carnival reps/supervisors politely told me that to change to the Freedom would cost the current price for the Freedom, which was several hundred dollars more for each person for the same cabin class. I declined and am still on the Miracle. And, at this point looking forward to the cruise.

[zqvol]

I would call back and keep calling back asking for a supervisor each time and get my cruise changed to the same cat on the other cruise. Nonsense having to pay a $600 cancellation fee because you didnt catch the change on time. I would call them every day twice a day until they fixed it for a Feb 09 upcoming cruise. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I would squeak until they shut me up.

 

If that supervisor cant fix it ask for that supervisor's supervisor and keep going up the ladder. Write down the names and ask for their phone numbers to call them back. Dont take no for a answer. They CAN fix this, just make sure they do. Its not your fault Carnival changed the cruise.

 

At what point in time do the rules finally apply? If carnival says final payment is due 70 days out an you don't think that is fair, should they make yours 30 days out?, What about 5 days out? Can you just cancel on the day of the cruise and get a refund? At some point the rules have to be enforced.

 

Up until about 2 weeks ago Miracle was able to make the trip. Clearly the propulsion system issue has gotten worse. It is clear from the emergency run last week that it can still make speed, but I bet that if it does that entire engine seizes up and then it becomes a safety issue. Yes, Carnival should have notified people as soon as they made the change and allowed them to cancel without penalty.

 

How should Carnival notify everyone? 70% of cruisers book with TAs and Carnival has to deal with the TAS, not the passenger. Who knows how many TAs didn't bother to let the passenger know. Should Carnival call all 30,000 or so passengers? They will be calling until 2010 before they get a hold of all of them. E-mail? As we have learned some people don't read their e-mail, some have inboxes that are full. How can carnival effectively notify all these people in a timely fashion?

 

It really stinks that people don't get the crusie they want but I have not yet seen anyone tell me how carnival could have done what people think they should have done.

[carzyboutcarnival]

so what your saying is that when i leave on the 31st of december on the miracle there will be no obc for fuel??

 

i leave on the 31st toooo on the miracle and it depends on when you paid our 22nd cruise on the spirit our plane got canceld so we booked this one, we just booked miracle we have no obc fuel charge!!

 

C u on miracle maybe!!!

[FlaMilkman]

It really stinks that people don't get the crusie they want but I have not yet seen anyone tell me how carnival could have done what people think they should have done.

 

I agree with you in so much as it would be a logicistical nightmare to adequately contact every passenger and let them know exactly what is going on and provide them with all their options. It is for that specific reason that Carnival needs to relax their cancellation / change penalties.

When a tropical system is anywhere near a specific place, the airlines suspend their rules including rebookings, cancellations, etc. Carnival needs to do the same thing.

Like some others, I found out about the issue 16 days prior to my cruise (we are now at 13 days). I contacted Carnival to switch onto the Liberty which, according to their website, still had available cabins in equivalent categories. Even though the Liberty is 7 days v. 8 days Carnival wanted to charge me a premium price for the Liberty b/c of how close to the cruise it is over and above the premium I had already paid for the Southern itinerary.

My current mentality is that I am "stuck" with a cruise. Having paid over $7,000 for 9 people, some of whom are coming from England and can not change their airfare, I am not a happy camper. How difficult would it have been to switch us?? They still would have made the same amount of money (more so if they didn't refund all of the fuel surcharge I have already paid). Now I worry daily that the mechanical condition of the ship is going to be worse (after all, Carnival has been less than forthcoming already) and we are going to be stuck. I am a loyal Carnival customer with over 10 cruises and definitely believe that I am not being treated as a such.

As I have said before, I am pretty confident that once I get on board I will have a nice time. I hope so, because if not, Carnival will have lost a long time, good customer.

[CRIRUN]

I have been on cruises where the itinerary has been changed. I have friends that had it happen to them too. There is initial disappointment, but it lasts for a minute. I must say that to me, the new itinirary the Miracle is doing is a better one. Did I misread that now instead of three ports there are four ports? That would be a reason for the price remaining higher.

Somehow there was missed communication since some people had decent advance warning and others did not.

[FlaMilkman]

Our cruise, which is the Southern Caribbean, substituted Tortola for St. Lucia.

The entire reason for picking this cruise, over a standard Eastern or Western itinerary (which we have done several times each) and paying a premium for it was because of the ports. Otherwise we would have booked on a newer ship (Liberty or Freedom) and saved money doing so.

When I was notified of the changes I tried to switch. Carnival threw up so many roadblocks that I am "stuck" on the Miracle (hopefully a good thing when everything is said and done).

[firefly333]

At what point in time do the rules finally apply? If carnival says final payment is due 70 days out an you don't think that is fair, should they make yours 30 days out?, What about 5 days out? Can you just cancel on the day of the cruise and get a refund? At some point the rules have to be enforced.

 

If I PAID for a Panama cruise and it isnt what is being delivered, I dont think this is the same as me just saying I would want to cancel if they changed it to Western Caribbean.

 

Another person who "doesnt get it". There is a rule about being able to cancel within 24 hours of the change being announced, that I was replying to. The poster said they wouldnt let him cancel because he hadnt read the email and contacted them within the 24 hour window. This came up last year over something else, cant remember where the rule was posted here that you seem to not be aware of since you are talking about regular cancellation policys. You DO have the right to cancel if Carnival changes the ports.

[billfish]

We have been looking forward to our MIRACLE cruise on 1/24/09 for quite some time. While our itinerary change is not as drastic as the Pamama change we are not happy as we really wanted to go to St. Lucia.

 

 

It could have been allot worse . Can you spell CANCELLED.

 

Now there is something to be pi$$ed about.

[FlaMilkman]

Billfish - Are you sure that the trip won't be cancelled??? From what I can gather going back through the posts on this board, the mechanical situation has deteriorated over the past couple of weeks.

 

First, people noticed that there was a difference in the wake of the ship, but it didn't affect the itinerary. The only thing they noticed was increased vibration.

 

Second, Carnival cancelled two weeks so that they can bring the ship into drydock. This is being done in the height of the season where they normally are charging their highest fares. Obviously it is a problem that couldn't wait until summer.

 

Third, a couple of weeks after announcing the cancelled cruises, Carnival switched all of the itineraries to shorter routes to protect the bad engine. As demonstrated during their medical emergency, the ship CAN go faster, they simply choose not to do it.

 

Fourth, they decided not use stabilizers on the cruise. This has resulted in increased movement on the ship. People are also commenting on the vibration at the stern of the ship.

 

Now obviously Carnival isn't about to cancel every cruise from now until the drydock. Furthermore, they aren't going to advertise the issue on their website - they are still booking new passengers with the revised itineraries who don't know any better.

 

I am simply concerned that at some point in the near future, the engine (or related issue) might fail completely. This may never happen, but it certainly has worried Carnival enough to schedule an emergency drydock.

With that being said, as an informed consumer, I would have liked to have had the option to switch to a different ship without being penalized for a problem that is none of my doing.

[Chat Noir]

It could have been allot worse . Can you spell CANCELLED.

 

Now there is something to be pi$$ed about.

 

CANCELLED = REFUND.

 

REFUND = REBOOKING the itinerary you want.

 

:)

[Nyctor118]

I agree with you in so much as it would be a logicistical nightmare to adequately contact every passenger and let them know exactly what is going on and provide them with all their options. It is for that specific reason that Carnival needs to relax their cancellation / change penalties.

When a tropical system is anywhere near a specific place, the airlines suspend their rules including rebookings, cancellations, etc. Carnival needs to do the same thing.

Like some others, I found out about the issue 16 days prior to my cruise (we are now at 13 days). I contacted Carnival to switch onto the Liberty which, according to their website, still had available cabins in equivalent categories. Even though the Liberty is 7 days v. 8 days Carnival wanted to charge me a premium price for the Liberty b/c of how close to the cruise it is over and above the premium I had already paid for the Southern itinerary.

My current mentality is that I am "stuck" with a cruise. Having paid over $7,000 for 9 people, some of whom are coming from England and can not change their airfare, I am not a happy camper. How difficult would it have been to switch us?? They still would have made the same amount of money (more so if they didn't refund all of the fuel surcharge I have already paid). Now I worry daily that the mechanical condition of the ship is going to be worse (after all, Carnival has been less than forthcoming already) and we are going to be stuck. I am a loyal Carnival customer with over 10 cruises and definitely believe that I am not being treated as a such.

As I have said before, I am pretty confident that once I get on board I will have a nice time. I hope so, because if not, Carnival will have lost a long time, good customer.

 

First, Carnival should have notified customers as soon as they even suspected that they might have to remove Panama and Costa Rica as destinations. If that really was three days before the Dec 15 sailing, then fine, but people did mention that there were propulsion problems on the Miracle on earlier cruises.

 

Second, if Carnival is going to resume sailing to Panama & Costa Rica on either the Miracle or another ship, they should have given passengers the ability to cancel & rebook the same category cabin, for the same price, on a future cruise to those locations, scheduled after the propulsion repair, up to one year from now.

 

Third, for those unable to cancel their current reservation (due to loss of airfare, vacation scheduling, whatever..) Carnival should have been reduced the fare charged to that of a western Caribbean cruise, and the difference returned in cash, not even just an OBC.

[zqvol]

I agree with you in so much as it would be a logicistical nightmare to adequately contact every passenger and let them know exactly what is going on and provide them with all their options. It is for that specific reason that Carnival needs to relax their cancellation / change penalties.

 

When a tropical system is anywhere near a specific place, the airlines suspend their rules including rebookings, cancellations, etc. Carnival needs to do the same thing.

 

Like some others, I found out about the issue 16 days prior to my cruise (we are now at 13 days). I contacted Carnival to switch onto the Liberty which, according to their website, still had available cabins in equivalent categories. Even though the Liberty is 7 days v. 8 days Carnival wanted to charge me a premium price for the Liberty b/c of how close to the cruise it is over and above the premium I had already paid for the Southern itinerary.

 

My current mentality is that I am "stuck" with a cruise. Having paid over $7,000 for 9 people, some of whom are coming from England and can not change their airfare, I am not a happy camper. How difficult would it have been to switch us?? They still would have made the same amount of money (more so if they didn't refund all of the fuel surcharge I have already paid). Now I worry daily that the mechanical condition of the ship is going to be worse (after all, Carnival has been less than forthcoming already) and we are going to be stuck. I am a loyal Carnival customer with over 10 cruises and definitely believe that I am not being treated as a such.

 

As I have said before, I am pretty confident that once I get on board I will have a nice time. I hope so, because if not, Carnival will have lost a long time, good customer.

 

Finally a rational solution.

 

I think that sometimes people who are not affected by these types of events become cynical because the people who are affected make what to an outsider seem to be outlandish requests and crazy comments.

 

I have long found that if people make reasonable statements, that the responses are much better and more civilized than when the original poster makes some over the top request or comment.

 

Everyone has opinions but sometimes it is better to try to stick to facts, or at least back your opinion up with real facts.

 

I hope everyone gets some resolution to this situation that they can live with and soon.

[zqvol]

If I PAID for a Panama cruise and it isnt what is being delivered, I dont think this is the same as me just saying I would want to cancel if they changed it to Western Caribbean.

 

Another person who "doesnt get it". There is a rule about being able to cancel within 24 hours of the change being announced, that I was replying to. The poster said they wouldnt let him cancel because he hadnt read the email and contacted them within the 24 hour window. This came up last year over something else, cant remember where the rule was posted here that you seem to not be aware of since you are talking about regular cancellation policys. You DO have the right to cancel if Carnival changes the ports.

 

I get it completely. You are still irritated with Carnival about what happened during the hurricane, and as a result you are not being rational. There is nothing that Carnival can or could do that would satisfy you.

 

It is the guys fault that he did not read his e-mail, not Carnivals.

[trock]

We started noticing the propolsion issues on CC shortly after our May 2008 Miracle cruise...

 

First one i could find is July 3rd

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=803671

 

This issue goes way back...

I dont care if one booked directly or with a TA.. Carnival has the contact info... a snail mail letter or a phone call... It could have been done...

[G'ma]

Its not your fault Carnival changed the cruise.

 

True, but it is posters fault that he called too late to cancel.

[MTcruiser]

Those who cruise frequently know that ships itineraries can and do change regularly....for many reasons. They know that the passenger contract' date=' terms and conditions very carefully lay this all out in plain English and when the reservation is made and deposited, they have agreed to the contract. It's not bait and switch......

 

There are valid reasons why changes are made. They don't do it just to tick off a shipload of passengers and make life miserable.

 

You had the option of canceling - or using Carnival's Vacation Guarantee.... You opted to continue with the cruise.

 

So many don't bother to "know before you go" by reading the information contained on Carnival's website.....they'd rather complain after the fact. Here, from the website----smack on the front page under "Port Cancellation Policy":

 

Port Cancellation Policy

If Carnival Cruise Lines ("Carnival") has adequate notice prior to sailing that a vessel will deviate from the published itinerary, it will promptly -- upon making the itinerary change -- notify guests of the change through their travel agents or directly, in the case of a direct booking ("the Notice"). The Notice shall offer guests an opportunity to cancel their booking without penalty within 24 hours of the delivery of the Notice. Carnival shall not be liable to guests for any charges, fees or expenses paid or owed to third parties (such as air travel booked by a guest directly with an airline) in connection with a canceled booking or substituted port. In the event a guest does not cancel his or her cruise on a timely basis, no additional compensation for the itinerary change will be offered to the guest at a later time.

In the event the itinerary change becomes necessary while the ship is at sea or when notice prior to sailing is not feasible, Carnival shall attempt to substitute an alternative port. Carnival shall promptly provide written notice of the itinerary change to the guests as well as announcing the change in the Carnival Capers and via the public address system. No compensation shall be provided to guests when an alternative port is offered.

If safety, scheduling or other concerns prevent the ship from calling on an alternative port, Carnival shall promptly provide written notice of the elimination of the scheduled port to the guests as well as announcing the change in the Carnival Capers and via the public address system. The written notice shall also offer a shipboard credit of $20.00 (U.S.D.) per person to be reflected on the sail and sign account.

Nothing herein shall affect the guest's ability to exercise the Vacation Guarantee on sailings where it applies.

 

See? Knowledge is power......read before you send your deposit......

 

All true, but....

She still has the right to be ticked off. I sure would be if I thought we were going to Panama and ended up finding out we weren't when we got there. And come on, cancel? They were already there. Airplane tickets aren't cheap you know.

[Kurbanfan]

I have been on cruises where the itinerary has been changed. I have friends that had it happen to them too. There is initial disappointment, but it lasts for a minute. I must say that to me, the new itinirary the Miracle is doing is a better one. Did I misread that now instead of three ports there are four ports? That would be a reason for the price remaining higher.

 

Somehow there was missed communication since some people had decent advance warning and others did not.

 

I think you missed the point. They paid for the Panama itinerary which is much more expensive then the Western Caribbean itinerary. No one is saying the Western Itinerary is not a great one. They are upset (and rightfully so) that they paying for something that is worth much less.........

They should at the very least (since they can't cancel) receive the difference in price IMO!

[Carnival Platinum Cruiser]

The number of days was the same - 8 to be exact. The new ports were Cozumel and Costa Maya (Mexico) and Roatan (Honduras).

 

The service on the cruise was excellent, as was to be expected. Most passengers booked the cruise because of the destination, and they were disappointed, although understanding.

 

What did seem to bother a lot of passengers is that the cruise fares for the Panama cruise were higher than the fares that Carnival charges for the cruises they offer that go to the destinations we actually ended up visiting. By that, I mean if we had booked a cruise to Cozumel, Belize, and Costa Maya, it wouldn't have cost us a much as we ended up paying.

 

Sort of like buying a Cadillac and being given a Hynundai, with a $50 credit.

 

 

Here here. The carnival cheerleaders are endless on this board. Bottom line is they knew about the engine trouble for months and now offer a 50 OBC. That is just not the way to do business and lousy customer service. It is not about changing the itenerary do to something beyond their control like the weather, unrest at port etc. They knew about the problem and did not fix it.

[FlaMilkman]

Finally a rational solution.

 

I think that sometimes people who are not affected by these types of events become cynical because the people who are affected make what to an outsider seem to be outlandish requests and crazy comments.

 

I have long found that if people make reasonable statements, that the responses are much better and more civilized than when the original poster makes some over the top request or comment.

 

Everyone has opinions but sometimes it is better to try to stick to facts, or at least back your opinion up with real facts.

 

I hope everyone gets some resolution to this situation that they can live with and soon.

 

Thank you - hopefully someone from Carnival is listening. If so, I am in cabins 8211, 8215 and 8217 on the January 8th cruise. I am sure that a representative can find my information in my records to contact me although I honestly believe that it is too late to do anything constructive that would be mutually satisfactory to both parties.