smokeybandit

1 minute ago, Ocean Boy said:

Data means nothing when you spend all night in an ICU trying to keep one of your "statistics" alive. I don't have to prove anything to you.

And that has nothing to do with covid, as there are examples for every ailment, illness and malady affecting someone it doesn't typically affect.

That doesn't mean across the board decisions should be made based on a tragic, yet extremely rare situation.

2 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

There are better odds of the earth being burned up in a supernova than you providing any useful insight on a discussion topic.

So prove that I'm wrong.

Less than 150 kids under age 15 have died due to covid, with the huge majority having severe underlying conditions.

Going from a negative test to needing urgent medical care in the span of a few days is extremely rare for even the most vulnerable, none the less a child.

Just because you don't like the real data doesn't mean the data is wrong.

Just now, Ocean Boy said:

However, when pediatric cases go bad they go bad big time. And I would not depend on either a ship's medical facility or a Caribbean hospital to be able to handle it as well as a U.S. hospital. Pedi and adult medicine are two different worlds.

There are better odds of a kid falling overboard than there are of a kid needing urgent medical care due to covid on a ship.

2 hours ago, lizzius said:

Using the death per capita for different demographics provided by the CDC suggests a big jump after 15 and a bigger jump after 25. Let's just make a new term, COVID vulnerable or something similar. 

 

I understand about the different vaccine discussion being a big black hole, but it is a non-trivial consideration to make.

A big jump mathematically, but a completely insignificant jump statistically.

Only once you get to 65+ does age determine vulnerability.

Here's the thing about proof of vaccine, at least in the USA.

It's a cheap piece of card stock.  Very easy to fabricate.  Good luck knowing who truly has the vaccine and who doesn't (not specifically cruises, but anything requiring proof of vaccine)

There's about 5 seconds of any value in the entire video

"When will we cruise again? I don't know"

How are these river cruise lines not bound by the same CDC rules?

1 minute ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Or being told about refund or FCC options. 

This could also be true.

9 minutes ago, kwokpot said:

RCCL Richard Fain has already commented that Vaccines are the way forward to the restart of cruising and less about all the other mitigation strategies. If you read between the lines and see what has happened and more importantly what hasn't I think the cruise line's strategy will be to work with the CDC and see if requiring vaccines for all passengers will allow them to lessen the amount of other mitigation efforts that require alot of time, money, and coordination. 

I interpreted his comments to mean the prevalence of vaccines will make the need for all the other onerous restrictions of the return to sail order less necessary, not that everyone will require a vaccine.

"Passengers who are unable to receive both doses of the COVID-19 vaccine before their scheduled trips, or those who have no intention of receiving the vaccine, are requested to contact the reservations team with AQSC or Victory Cruise Lines."

Sounds like there's still a way to book a cruise w/o a vaccine.

I haven't gotten FCCs or port/tax refunds for my March cruise, though it's still well within the 45 day window.

16 hours ago, cured said:

You do realize that 103 years ago during the 1918 Spanish flu, masks were mandated, schools and public amusement places closed along with other things that are being done during today's pandemic?  Virus knowledge was at its infancy, but even then, the scientists knew that masks contained spread. I am not sure where you get the information that masks and lockdowns are new things for pandemics.

Actually the covid mask debate was quite similar to the Spanish Flu mask debate.  No real evidence that they worked (especially back then with gauze masks being popular) despite high compliance. Public officials were caught back then not wearing masks, too, despite telling citizens to do so.  And much like today, back then some claimed masks worked great, others said they did nothing and the flu just died out on its own.

14 hours ago, AF-1 said:

The below was taken from CDC website.  Notice the Nov 2021 date.

 

October 30, 2020 Update

On October 30, 2020, CDC issued a Framework for Conditional Sailing Order. This Order is effective upon signature and was published in the Federal Registerexternal icon on November 4, 2020.

This Order shall remain in effect until the earliest of

• The expiration of the Secretary of Health and Human Services’ declaration that COVID-19 constitutes a public health emergency,
• The CDC Director rescinds or modifies the order based on specific public health or other considerations, or
• November 1, 2021.

See the attached Order (print-only) pdf icon[PDF – 40 pages] for the full requirements.

Nothing to read into there. That's just saying the order lasts for 1 year unless it's modified before that.

It's photoshopped.  Though as others mentioned,  a ladder would be pretty easy.

48 minutes ago, LB_NJ said:

It is not the CDC, it is the virus.

 

Once the virus is under control there will be a return to sailing. Not before.

 

With new variants popping up here and there around the globe there will be tighter restrictions on and off.  Countries will sporadically go into lockdown.

 

Ships may go into lockdown and you may not be let off.  Whole ship in quarantine, especially if it is a variant a country does not want let in.  FYI, no travel insurance covers quarantine since it is a foreseeable event.

New variants have popped up since day one. That's how viruses work.   Just for some reason we're scared of new variants with covid but not other viruses, largely due to computer modeling.  Remember that UK variant that was supposedly 70% more contagious (spit out by a computer model)?  They've since found it really isn't that much more contagious , if any more, than any other strain.

One of Biden's covid advisors, Michael Osterholm, said the other day that 2 masks is actually more harmful because it'd force more particles out the side of the masks.

Remember back when all we had to do was wear masks and use social distancing to return to normal?

The minute the vaccine entered the picture, masks and social distancing no longer meant anything. Now it's "everyone needs vaccined to return to normal"

4 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

If the CDC is to blame, why isn't the rest of the world sailing? Could it possibly be that the ivory towers in Miami have some culpability in this? What exactly have they done to get the ships sailing again, except waste money on a Blue Ribbon Panel? It's been going on 11 months since this started and I don't recall one update on what they've accomplished so far except "We are working on it". 

It's been plenty publicized in recent weeks that all the major American lines are stuck in idle because the CDC won't give them any additional guidance on the return to sail protocol.

14 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 
   You posses no "right" to cruise ... or go to Disney, fly in a commercial jet, eat in a restaurant, hold a job or attend a public school. Choose to ignore public health directives, regulations or laws, and you sacrifice those privileges? OK, that is your choice - live with the consequences.

 

     Honestly, Fox has done more to curdle America's common sense than heroin ever could. 
 

     If I conclude I don't like red lights and am entitled to "freedom of choice" about stopping, I can expect the traffic court judge to quickly straighten out my thinking. After paying a fine, I then have to make a decision about driving: either play by the rules or buy a skateboard. "Fairness" and "my rights" got nothing to do with it.

The rules aren't the issue. The haphazard, random, inconsistent and seemingly politically-motivated and power hungry creation of the rules that's the issue.  Why is it safe to fly in a tiny metal tube for 4-5-6 hours but not in a gigantic ship with plenty of private areas and open air?

Why can a hotel resort on land be opened, but one on water can't?

Why were masks, lockdowns quarantines NOT advised for pandemics based on decades of science prior to March, yet after March suddenly that's the way to do things?

29 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

RCI, via its Healthy Panel, and CLIA both said testing of all passengers will happen upon return to sailings - it's just a matter of when and what kind.

And the CDC in their impossible return to sailing order.

1 minute ago, AF-1 said:

smokeybandit;  that is a good move.  For me I would have to book another cruise.  I am sailing both Princess and Royal Caribbean this and next year.

Problem is the only available week we'd have between then and next March as a family would be Thanksgiving.  I've scouted a few cruises during that week, but I don't want to get stuck in a loop of rebooking every 2 months. Since they're extending double points through next summer, we'd probably just book another one next summer instead of risking one this year.

If our July cruise gets canceled, and still no firm restart date is available, we'll probably just throw our FCCs into our March 20220 cruise.

4 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

I’m in Canada and was referring to Canada’s scheduled approvals.

Ah, sorry. Congrats on your medical agency being ahead of the curve.

The Spanish Flu is named such because all the countries suffering from it who were involved in WWI didn't want to publicize it. Spain, which was neutral in the war, did.  And the name stuck.

7 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

I hope that is the case however you can never tell what the politicians will do.  
 

Astrozenica should be approved in the next 2 weeks. 

Johnson and Johnson will be the next to be authorized. AstraZeneca still has a while yet (despite it being authorized in the UK)