phoenix_dream

How about the idea that any gratuity should be a choice and not an obligation. If it is required, it is not a gratuity, it is the price. The worst change was earlier when they raised the specialty dining prices (which previously included gratuities) and then added an 18% gratuity charge on top of that.

This is exactly my thinking. I understand bringing in fresh blood so to speak. A business has to survive. But many of us 55+ have 20+ more years to cruise and if they're like me had wanted it to be on Celebrity. Now for the first time in literally 30+ years I am considering other lines. Not ghosting Celebrity but not sailing as much with the line either. Many of these young people now filling the ships will likely come back, but due to jobs, family, and finances they will definitely not come back to sail as often as I will, with 7-8 or more cruises per year since retirement. It seemed to me, CEO of only my own family (although DH would argue that point!) that the Royal group had a smart thing going before. Younger people and young people with children chose Royal Caribbean for the entertainment aspect and child-friendliness. As their children grew and left the house and they wanted a more restful cruise atmosphere, they graduated to Celebrity. Seems logical and practical to me. And to add to that, Royal keeps building floating resorts, bigger and bigger all the time. And Celebrity keeps adding new E class. After this post-Covid surge ebbs, will they really be able to fill ships on both lines with this business strategy? CEO's in general have a habit of looking only at the immediate future as that is where their bonuses are built. They tend not to look 4-5 or more years ahead as they will often be moving on by then. I guess time will tell.

I know you are not directing this at me personally, but I do have some thoughts on your post. I've spent many, many sailings in everything from inside cabins to ocean view to balcony to sometimes suites when I can afford them. And my take is this - it is not necessarily that those upset are going to miss the butler service. When I sail in a suite I like it for sure, but honestly don't use them much. But it is the principle here - people are paying a lot of money for certain benefits, all of which were advertised at the time of purchase and at least as of this writing are still on the website. And now that benefit is eliminated - no notice, no communication, no price reduction, no option to cancel without penalty (for those who do care if they have an individual butler). I think that says something about the company and how it is operating that is very concerning for ALL passengers, not just suite guests. You might also remember that there was tons of discussion on this site when the buffet went downhill. And tons of discussion when charges were being tested for MDR ordering of filet mignon and lobster. Are people using MDR also supposed to be posting only on other social media so we don't assume they are looking for sympathy? Or maybe are we then to have separate threads only for people to whom a specific change applies? If you don't sail in suites, no one is forcing you to join a thread discussing changes to suites. Just like I was not forced to join a thread regarding the MDR menu even though I rarely lately sail in anything lower than Aqua Class. And to wrap up, this is not about fostering sympathy. I don't know why you would say that. It is about how a business is treating its customers, at all levels.

You seriously don't understand? I suspect you're just being sarcastic but I'll reply anyway. Here's why I do it. I love the bigger cabin. I love the bigger balcony as I spend a lot of time relaxing on mine. I love hanging out in the Retreat lounge when the other lounges are real busy or when I just feel like relaxing there. I love being able to board whenever I want. On E class I love the bar on the Retreat deck. I love having a Retreat deck. I love the service and on M and S class the ambiance of Luminae (the menu not so much admittedly). I love being able to take my reservation requests or problems to the host/hostess in the Retreat lounge rather than standing in line at Customer Relations for long periods of time. Is the Butler a nice perk? Yes, although I don't use him or her a lot. But I am peeved at them for what they are doing to the butler service as it is not what I paid for on my upcoming Sky Suite sailings.

I think expecting us to swallow the koolaid is the most insulting part. I’d almost feel better if they said we think we can provide you just as good a service and save some $$ at the same time. At least that’s closer to honesty. Still don’t believe it’s true though. Fewer people, but the same service. Hmm. I don’t need an MBA to know that doesn’t calculate.

Maybe I don’t have the correct title. I mean the person who manages the Retreat lounge.

Same here. I want more options onboard. I also get seasick too easily to enjoy those much smaller ships.

Come on now, we older folks are not all stuffy🙂. I hate knitting, never play cards onboard, eat at 8:00, never take a nap, and ok, you got me, I’m usually in bed by 10ish. It is true that the luxury lines cater to an older crowd and are designed accordingly. Celebrity used to be that way also, perhaps a little younger demographic. For whatever reason now they feel they need to be Royal 2.0. I understand the need to bring in new clientele. But I think before these changes there was a natural progression. Royal when you’re young and bringing kids with you, graduating to Celebrity when the kids are grown and you want a more relaxed experience. Everyone who’s lucky, gets older. Why is Celebrity trying to push us away then?!? With the huge Royal ships still being built, why build competing experiences? Won’t that soon be a problem filling ships if many of us old folks jump ship and try other lines? Doesn’t make good business sense to me. But I only spent 30+ years working in large corporations. What do I know? (rant directed at Celebrity, not you)

I can speak for myself. I cruise 7-8 times a year and have 80+ cruises completed, the majority Caribbean. I don’t need shore excursions. I am Zenith so already get Wi-Fi and premium drinks. I don’t need another piece of expensive jewelry or expensive photos. I prefer my spa at home. I may use a little OBC on a specialty dinner or a little gambling, but overall struggle to use that non refundable OBC. Would much rather have a cheaper fare. No offense meant to those who desire it, just explaining why some of us don’t find it a good thing.

We had one bad butler. First we addressed it directly with him. No change. We discussed it then with our Retreat hostess and she thanked us for the input and stated it was her job to make sure we were well taken care of, and based on results she did a good job. And in case anyone has doubts, we are definitely not the type to complain or report any little minor issue. This butler was borderline rude and completely unresponsive. Thankfully he was an outlier as the vast majority of all Celebrity staff is outstanding!

A couple years ago I would have completely agreed with you. But having sailed multiple suites this past year my personal experience has been that the demographic has significantly changed. Much, much younger and definitely in the age where they could still be paying off student loans. I don’t recall my exact comments, but I am really talking about the spending sprees across the board. People are racking up credit card debt at an alarming pace. I also have never booked a vacation on credit, but I’m not sure you and I are in the majority anymore. I agree with your last paragraph but interpret things differently. I think when all the debt comes to payment time, that is part of the reason people will no longer tolerate the pricing as they will no longer be able to afford it by jacking up their debt even more. Not the only reason of course, but I think a significant factor.

Agree with all your points. Martini bar area loud and always jammed. Never could find a seat before dinner for a nice drink. Luminae very loud and cavern like. The theater is great, but too small. Every night there was a good show it was 100% full with two rows of people standing in the rear. The pluses- the shows were great, as was the staff, although that’s been true on all Celebrity ships.

Not sure what LLP has to do with this as she is no longer in charge?

Thank you. But it apparently doesn't connect for a number of popular streaming platforms per their Amazon description: Stream videos from popular apps like YouTube, Quickflix, Hulu Plus, IDMB, Family On TV, ABC, NBC, FOX, Microsoft Office, and more. Please note that it does not work with apps that have "HDCP" video copyright protection, such as Netflix, Prime Video, Amazon Video, HBO Go, Hulu, etc.

As frustrated and angry as I am at Celebrity right now (and that is a lot), I really don't believe they will take away access to Luminae. There just literally is not enough space in their other restaurants to accommodate the number of suite guests. If they were to try to do that, I think there would be an uprising across the board, rather than just suite guests, as other restaurants became packed well beyond capacity. As to the Retreat Deck and the lounge - I do sincerely fear that is at risk. Considering that Sky Suites are a large portion of all suites, I personally feel that would be a huge mistake - but then they are not consulting me.

We'll move on when we're ready to. If you don't want to read these posts anymore, then I respectfully suggest it is you who should move on to other threads. There are two reasons there are reactors here - one is that this is just one more way Celebrity is cutting services while their costs skyrocket. That concerns everyone, not just those in suites. Second, it is a very questionable business model where a product is advertised, paid for, and then not delivered. Again, that point concerns everyone, not just those in suites.

So the rumor, as expected, seems to be confirmed as reported by several sources. To say this upsets me is the understatement of the year. If they changed it for sailings from "x" date going forward and allowed refundable deposits that's one thing. But to suddenly pull a promised perk with no notice and no explanation is outrageous. The Celebrity I've known and loved for 30+ years no longer exists. Time to seriously check out other lines.

So theoretically we should get a refund for part of our cruise price paid. That will happen round about the same time I win the current 1 billion MegaMillions lottery.

Don't mean to be rude here, but I couldn't stop laughing at your idea that they could or would start dropping the prices of Sky or Celebrity suites. The CEO has stated he wants to charge more and more and more (I'm paraphrasing). No prices will drop unless (or until) people stop booking. I'm hoping when they start getting their credit card bills in and start needing to pay back their student loans (in the US) that maybe some normalcy will return to pricing.

Many people feel that it is. I confess I am not one of them. But yes, they had bingo for many, many years.

OMG that is beyond belief. I can't even imagine paying what for many is a full years salary on any cruise! If I didn't recognize you as a loyal and credible poster I would think you were making this up!

And none of these laws apply to foreign owned cruise lines.

I would recommend Royal or Disney. Would definitely have one room - a suite if they can afford it, or some type of family cabin considering the ages.

Exactly. I sailed on a B2B Royal Suite earlier this year that I had booked probably a year ago. Our first, and the way things are going will be our last RS. For next year, I am literally paying the same price for Aqua Class. I do not exaggerate. Unbelievable! And if they did decide to Royalize some more and only have them for upper level suites that may be the final straw for me and Celebrity after close to 80 cruises. Considering the extremely high prices for all levels of suites (and astronomical for the higher level ones) if they start cutting perks that's completely unacceptable. I know ships are sailing full right now but this bubble will burst sooner or later. I'm frankly surprised it already hasn't. Disney is already seeing some of the pushback (for price and other reasons). But soon people will be starting to pay real attention to their credit card bills (highest debt in US history) and many will need to start repaying their student loans, so we'll see what happens.

We did a number of Retreat sailings last year and early this year, even once in a Royal Suite. Now, looking at the prices, I can't bring myself to book anything higher than Aqua, and even that is really high due to all included, which frustrates me as I already get most of those perks all included at the Zenith level so I am in essence paying for a perk I don't need. I know, poor me and all that, but it is very frustrating. As a senior I don't know how many more years I will be able to enjoy the traveling I do now, and that also makes it frustrating when the ships are filling up with so many younger folks these days (which I know delights Celebrity). And that is not a slam at younger people, it is what it is, but I don't think many non-seniors realize how much this impacts us, especially the older seniors. Our traveling days are limited (how much we don't know) and we are facing such high prices traveling, as well as crowds everywhere. So much for the retirement we dreamed about.