Brits don't like to tip

[BehrHunter]

Says the Sunday Times. A UK based Newspaper.

 

Cruise-ship passengers are becoming increasingly hostile to a system of tipping that is more mandatory than discretionary, and is used to subsidise crew salaries, rather than reward good service.

Cruising is now Britain’s most popular holiday — the market surged by 12% last year to 1.5m — but the reluctance of passengers to pay hundreds of pounds in on-board tips has caused the cruise giant Royal Caribbean International to admit that it is “rethinking” its policy.

 

You can read the whole article here:

[SamFritz]

"Hundreds of Pounds?!?!?!?!" How long of a cruise are these Brits going on? Unless my math is way off along with my memory of the exchange rate, you'd have to be on about a 17 day cruise to get to 100 pounds per person. (At $1.66 per pound, and $10 per person per day. I know it's a rough estimate.)

 

I work in an international tourist destination, and in a part time occupation that assumes tips will be earned, and I rarely have British folk short me. I am much more often left uncompensated by Northern Europeans and Eastern Europeans. My experience is that, while tipping may not be customary at home, Brits, Australians, and People from India know that tipping is an important part of how people in the service industry in the US earn their living. Perhaps when the cruise is sailing from Britain the expectations regarding tipping are different.

[BehrHunter]

I work in an international tourist destination, and in a part time occupation that assumes tips will be earned, and I rarely have British folk short me. I am much more often left uncompensated by Northern Europeans and Eastern Europeans. My experience is that, while tipping may not be customary at home, Brits, Australians, and People from India know that tipping is an important part of how people in the service industry in the US earn their living. Perhaps when the cruise is sailing from Britain the expectations regarding tipping are different.

 

I think you are right in assuming the expectations of cruisers out of Britain are a lot different than those cruising out of the US. Theres also a whole world of difference between the two groups of travelers.

[skandls]

'Tipping' on cruise ships has never been really 'optional' for good service (at least from my first cruise in 1981 on the QE2 - all British staff). Tips are considered a part of cruise staff salary. The hardworking people who clean the cabins and fill the water glasses at dinner rely on their tips in order to make a decent wage. If the service is really unacceptable then the passenger should have the right to withhold tips - and someone should be told about the bad service. (The person who messed up or in bad cases the cruise line.)

[GEORGET]

There is a difference in culture between UK, Europe and the USA.

In the uk we do not tip in the local pub, 10% taxi and dining out is the norm.

 

IN the UK cruise companies that are cheap usually include tips in the price ie Thomson , Island and P&O Ocean village.

The problem is that TA's are not telling new cruisers to the upmarket lines that tips are expected as the norm.

Even telling them they can cancel them.

 

IOS out of Southampton cruise are usually for 14 nights, so a family of 4, two adults two young children, are expected to pay £365 in tips approx 600 dollars.

This is above the average weekly wage.

If you did not know this, then you find out the drinks are twice the price of British ships and your local bar.

 

What do they do? to enjoy the cruise, cancel the tips !!!.

 

The only way to solve this is to add the minimum tips to the final invoice, so everybody knows the score and pays.

 

Ships that i have been on where the tips are included, or are compulary added , the service has been just as good as those like RCCL.

 

The only downside is that i like My Time Dinning and the queue would be horrendous if they did my suggestion

[Tucker in Texas]

'Tipping' on cruise ships has never been really 'optional' for good service (at least from my first cruise in 1981 on the QE2 - all British staff).

 

 

Until the late 80's and early 90's, Holland American had a policy of "tipping is not required" and many people read it as "tipping now allowed." Any "trolling for tips" by the crew meant firing. At the disembarkation talk, the CD would address the tipping question only by reading the statement when someone asked. Case closed. I asked my TA on my first HAL cruise how much "tipping is not required" was and she told me she had customers that didn't tip a dime--I am from the US. So, being a newbie, and very satisfied with their service, we tipped about half of what was suggested on the other ships--something like $25 for the room steward, waiter and $15 for the bus boy for the two of us. They were most appreciative and thanked us graciously. It was obvious not many other people did tip them.

 

Next HAL cruise we took our two sons with us who shared a cabin. By now, I was more aware of tipping policies via rtc cruise group (this was before Cruise Critic) and we tipped the recommended amounts (but not extra like we usually did) on other lines for ourselves and our boys. I thought the crew members were going to come home with us they were so excited! The room steweard even stopped my boys in the hall and told them to thank their parents for remembering them when they couldn't find us. I had to go down to the purser's desk to get envelopes because I had forgotten that they wouldn't be in the cabin and you would have thought I wanted a porno magazine from the corner convenience store they way the brought them out from under the counter and grudgingly gave them out.

 

By our third HAL cruise, (1992??) I noticed that at the disembarkation talk that the tipping question was addressed as "tipping is an international way of saying 'thank you'" by the CD but, again, no recommended amounts given. A lot of newbies were lost as to what would be appropriate and, I must admit, a little shocked when I told them what the other lines wanted to tip them. Now, I understand, that HAL (since bought up by Carnival) has given you the "convenience" of putting them on your S&S cards.

 

Tucker in Texas

[cb at sea]

It really flumoxes me that folks don't know anything about the cruise they are taking....they don't seem to understand tipping, the dress code.....anything! It's as if they don't research their vacation at all!

Our 1st cruise, I didn't know (in advance) that tipping was expected---until I read the brochure...readily available from the travel agent or cruiseline. Ok--that's an added expense, that I found out about....

Then, it's plainly stated about the different dress requirements....didn't know that, but again, the brochure stated it....we dressed properly.

Had we not AGREED to the guidelines, we wouldn't have booked the cruise!

Everyone should find out about their vacation BEFORE they take it!

[steponboard]

RCL doesn't care what you wear. If you tell your waiters that you won't be dining there on formal night because you didn't bring a suit and tie they tell you PLEASE COME and don't worry about that. What anyone wears doesn't effect my enjoyment. I personally like to dress nicely for formal nights but if my table mates didn't and were clean and presentable who cares. It's none of my business what anybody else tips either. It's RCL's issue to deal with tips not mine, it's my job to tip the suggested amounts if I use the service and not spend one nanosecond worrying about what others may or may not do.

[ribarfly]

JMO…..This is a culture difference, the ships are based on the US market were ship wages are set low and where tipping is the norm and offsets the low wage. The ships are then deployed to the European market with no adjustment to the crew wages and the crew expects the same rules to apply. I have heard many crewmembers complain about the European’s but they simply don’t understand the culture difference. I have to agree that RCL should automatically add the tips to the final bill for all markets they do business in, that would solve the problem for the crew. I am all for tipping for good services and I always do when I go to a restaurant or spend an evening at our local bar but I think American culture has got out of control expecting tips. Local Dunkin Donut coffee shops have tip cups at the drive thru window????? Come on your handed a $2.00 cup of coffee. I have also seen a tip cup in a self serve gas station……I should be getting the tip for pumping my own gas :rolleyes:

Ron:)

[boaterette]

I think the cruise lines need to adjust for the areas that they are cruising. The UK doesn't have tipping like the US does. So adjust the price. Neither one is the correct way of doing things. They are just different. So each is correct for their region.

[kooljamming]

It really flumoxes me that folks don't know anything about the cruise they are taking....they don't seem to understand tipping, the dress code.....anything! It's as if they don't research their vacation at all!

Our 1st cruise, I didn't know (in advance) that tipping was expected---until I read the brochure...readily available from the travel agent or cruiseline. Ok--that's an added expense, that I found out about....

Then, it's plainly stated about the different dress requirements....didn't know that, but again, the brochure stated it....we dressed properly.

Had we not AGREED to the guidelines, we wouldn't have booked the cruise!

Everyone should find out about their vacation BEFORE they take it!

 

There was a time when that was the norm and something even exciting about that. Now we go and there is no surprise and wonder. Years gone I used a TA who who specialized in the area I was going or type of travel. Research can cheat you of the ability of going with much anticipation and some what ready to deal with the unexpected. I hate the you should have known type post. This is not to say there aren't basics that are important before you go. The beauty back then you did not get flame online for what you did not known but learned along the way. How did we ever enjoy years of travel without the ability for all this research. I have visited some interesting places, meet some interesting people, and created some incredible memories through it all.

 

I started worrying about hurricane season in the Caribbean after reading about it online. For decades I went hoping there wasn't any heavy rain:D.

Research has it plus but like everything else it's minus!

[Oxymoron]

To start with, the word "tip" is listed in English dictionaries as a "reward" or "gift" for services given. It says nothing about "wage supplement".

 

If I was an American I would be angry about this. Not about people not tipping, but about the need for the tip in the first place. You guys are being ripped off by the companies. The employees are being ripped off and the guests are being ripped off while the companies (cruise lines restaurants etc) are making money. They (the companies) should pay a fare wage and not rely on the customer to make up the difference. You should be mad as hell about this with the company, but instead I read time and time again about abuse to the non-tipping customer (or on here about a customer with the temerity to question the tipping process)

 

Why do you tip for service? If you go to hospital and a nurse brings you a drink of water do you tip them? If they bring you a bed pan, do you tip? How about at the lawyers office, do you tip the receptionist when she seats you in a waiting room and gives you a coffee, do you tip the lawyer for their advice? "Thanks for that Mr. Lawyer, here is your $1000 dollars for that letter you wrote and here is another $150 as a tip".

 

Wake up and start getting Mad as Hell at the companies that require you to tip because they pay rubbish wages. The tip-virus is spreading around the world, stop it now before it's to late.

[MAZANDSTEVE]

To start with, the word "tip" is listed in English dictionaries as a "reward" or "gift" for services given. It says nothing about "wage supplement".

 

If I was an American I would be angry about this. Not about people not tipping, but about the need for the tip in the first place. You guys are being ripped off by the companies. The employees are being ripped off and the guests are being ripped off while the companies (cruise lines restaurants etc) are making money. They (the companies) should pay a fare wage and not rely on the customer to make up the difference. You should be mad as hell about this with the company, but instead I read time and time again about abuse to the non-tipping customer (or on here about a customer with the temerity to question the tipping process)

 

Why do you tip for service? If you go to hospital and a nurse brings you a drink of water do you tip them? If they bring you a bed pan, do you tip? How about at the lawyers office, do you tip the receptionist when she seats you in a waiting room and gives you a coffee, do you tip the lawyer for their advice? "Thanks for that Mr. Lawyer, here is your $1000 dollars for that letter you wrote and here is another $150 as a tip".

 

Wake up and start getting Mad as Hell at the companies that require you to tip because they pay rubbish wages. The tip-virus is spreading around the world, stop it now before it's to late.

 

 

 

Very good post.

[MAZANDSTEVE]

It really flumoxes me that folks don't know anything about the cruise they are taking....they don't seem to understand tipping, the dress code.....anything! It's as if they don't research their vacation at all!

Our 1st cruise, I didn't know (in advance) that tipping was expected---until I read the brochure...readily available from the travel agent or cruiseline. Ok--that's an added expense, that I found out about....

Then, it's plainly stated about the different dress requirements....didn't know that, but again, the brochure stated it....we dressed properly.

Had we not AGREED to the guidelines, we wouldn't have booked the cruise!

Everyone should find out about their vacation BEFORE they take it!

 

 

Until recently, I never resesarched my vacation, we relied on our TA to do it for us, its only the fact I can navigate a computer now that I do. For example, my father doesnt have a pc and would never know how to use it, it books a vacation via a TA or brochure, where sure as heck they dont have all the details and expectations, an awful lot of older people do not have the research capability and if they are booking their first cruise they would not know what is expected. Its only the fact I came on CC after booking my cruise that I learned what is classed as the norm on ships, quite a lot of it shocked me, yes we got on and paid for tips etc but it was a surprise to have to pay as much as the guidelines request.

[Cruise_Kitten]

It's not that us Brits dont like to tip, we are just not used to doing it. In the UK when you receive the final bill at a resturant a 10% service charge will have already been added to your bill thus no need to tip. If in some cases we feel that we have received excellent service we will leave a few coins on the table.

In the UK the lowest anyone can be paid is National Minimum Wage, which i believe is £5.80 a hour,so roughly $9.60 an hour. So in the US $9.60 an hour i gather would be an incredibly great wage for a waiter/waitress??

So it's not that we dont like to tip, in our counrty some of us do tip but it is not custom in our country to do so when most of the time a 10% Service charge has been added and the staff already earn a desent wage.

 

CK x

[NorbertsNiece]

Ate in a top notch London eaterie this week where the service charge was 15% - and well deserved. Awesome food, service ambiance etc.

Same day hailed a cab - the driver pulled such a face at the mere mention of the drop off (wanted more than one drop off location) that we took the ride and refused to tip.

So far this thread has been sensible and relatively flame free. Makes a change. ;)

[scrozuk]

It's not that us Brits dont like to tip, we are just not used to doing it. In the UK when you receive the final bill at a resturant a 10% service charge will have already been added to your bill thus no need to tip. If in some cases we feel that we have received excellent service we will leave a few coins on the table.

In the UK the lowest anyone can be paid is National Minimum Wage, which i believe is £5.80 a hour,so roughly $9.60 an hour. So in the US $9.60 an hour i gather would be an incredibly great wage for a waiter/waitress??

So it's not that we dont like to tip, in our counrty some of us do tip but it is not custom in our country to do so when most of the time a 10% Service charge has been added and the staff already earn a desent wage.

 

CK x

 

You hit the nail on the head there. It's just not in our psyche to tip, though by the same token, there are some occasions where you tip and don't tip.

 

Have just got back from Miami, and it seems that we tipped the following:-

 

1, Driver at airport to haul bags onto Alamo rental bus.

2, Bell boy at hotel when we arrived

3, Restaurants where gratuities not included (and bigger tips given to those who gave us great service)

4, Bell boy at Hotel to take bags to car on day of departure to ship

5, Driver at car rental bus park to sort out luggage

6, Porters at cruise terminal (a bit of a discussion point here already had I know)

7, Prepaid gratuities onboard ship.

 

To be honest, I think that cruising in general is a lot more expensive from the UK than it is in the US, so should RCI make moves to bump prices up because of people not tipping, they may lose custom..

 

I'm amazed that in this day and age that tipping is being made to be 'part of' their salary and not as a perk. In the UK, restaurant owners have been doing this for years where they tell their staff to make up their wages with tips to a minimum wage level, when it should be on top of the minimum wage level.

 

Feels to me overall that RCI take a share of all the tips and then passes the rest out to their staff.

 

Personally, I feel sorry for the maintenance guys, who you don't see. You know, the mechanics, laundry people, food prep. Do they get tips?

 

ScrozUK

back in the UK, but hell it's cold. Going back to Miami!

[compman9]

A tipping culture is simple to explain - company owners make more money by allowing their customers to pay their employees for them. It is the biggest scam ever!

 

I have had loads of arguments with Americans about their tipping culture - even on here. Often it is claimed that you receive better service because of the tipping culture, but I disagree - you get better service from civilised human beings.

 

However, I accept it is part of American culture and get on with it. Always have, and probably tip more than I need to. Just as I respect all cultures.

 

The separate issue, and one that is far more pertinent to cruisers is that non-Americans that are attracted to the idea of cruising, see the advertised price and think it's a great deal. They do further research (or not, it appears) and find there is this additional extra.

 

Your average Brit, thinking tips are for restaurants and taxi drivers, and having spoken to friends and family that say things like, "I was told to tip a dollar to someone holding a hotel door open for me in Las Vegas", simply think they are being ripped off.

 

This will be why RCI are re-considering their policy about pricing.

 

It is my belief that in the UK they will eventually advertise it like this:

"£70 full board per day for a seven day holiday."

"£700 - that's just £70 per day, all meals (as much as you can eat) included."

 

There may even be a time when they have All Inclusive prices, where you will get drinks included.

[jester121]

A tipping culture is simple to explain - company owners make more money by allowing their customers to pay their employees for them. It is the biggest scam ever!

 

That's a ridiculously naive statement. Where do you think those evil company owners are getting all their money from? That's right, their customers. Money from customers pays for the food, the booze, the lights, the heat, the furniture, advertising, wages, and everything else. It's not as if the average restaurateur is wallowing in cash and bathing in champagne after a good Saturday night. Restaurants have an extraordinarily high failure rate, most are scraping by in the best of times, and in a down economy they're closing at an alarming rate.

 

So, say you get your wish -- those evil owners say "no more tipping, we're going to pay waiters $35k per year." What do you think is going to happen to the prices of your food and drink? YOU are the customer, and YOU are the one that's going to pay. The money doesn't magically appear out of nowhere.

 

And not just the wage; remember that the employer pays half of FICA here. Oh, and now that the waiter gets all compensation on a paycheck, they can't fudge taxes any more like in a cash-based system. So their real take home pay goes down.

 

And bus boys have to be paid more too, because the wait staff isn't tipping out at the end of the night and they won't work for $7 per hour. Management has to raise prices even more. Or cut staff -- congratulations, you're responsible for a young man losing his job.

 

Instead of trying to get the best shifts on Friday and Saturday nights, there's no incentive for the best staff to work the busiest times. They're far better off working Tuesday lunches since it's a flat hourly rate.

 

With no tips there's no incentive to turn tables, so customers sit longer and less meals are served for the night, which decreases revenue even further. Dinner and a movie just became... dinner. And it costs two times what it did before. Thanks a lot.

 

I think people who take the easy, obvious route really need to educate themselves about how real business really works, and stop with the "companies are evil" nonsense. It's leading our country in the dead wrong direction, and doesn't do a thing to help the people they're trying to help (most of whom don't WANT things to change, mind you).

[luckyprincess]

To start with, the word "tip" is listed in English dictionaries as a "reward" or "gift" for services given. It says nothing about "wage supplement".

 

If I was an American I would be angry about this. Not about people not tipping, but about the need for the tip in the first place. You guys are being ripped off by the companies. The employees are being ripped off and the guests are being ripped off while the companies (cruise lines restaurants etc) are making money. They (the companies) should pay a fare wage and not rely on the customer to make up the difference. You should be mad as hell about this with the company, but instead I read time and time again about abuse to the non-tipping customer (or on here about a customer with the temerity to question the tipping process)

 

Why do you tip for service? If you go to hospital and a nurse brings you a drink of water do you tip them? If they bring you a bed pan, do you tip? How about at the lawyers office, do you tip the receptionist when she seats you in a waiting room and gives you a coffee, do you tip the lawyer for their advice? "Thanks for that Mr. Lawyer, here is your $1000 dollars for that letter you wrote and here is another $150 as a tip".

 

Wake up and start getting Mad as Hell at the companies that require you to tip because they pay rubbish wages. The tip-virus is spreading around the world, stop it now before it's to late.

Why would employees be angry about being tipped?:confused: If my employer said I'll pay you $10 an hour flat to serve tables and I'm routinely making $18 an hour to serve tables because of tips then why the heck would I want a flat rate?? The reason it works so well here is because we get our meal out cheaper, due to the restaurant not having to pay a full wage to the server and WE are in direct control of how much to compensate based on the service received. Have you ever shopped at a regular discount store - no one offers help, no one is there to exchange clothing for another size while you try on, no one going through backstock to see if the size or color you want is back there - just a person making $8.00 an hour at a register ringing you up, talking on the cell phone or something :p. Now try a place where the salespeople are paid a small base and the rest on commission. HUGE difference. That's because how much they get paid is based on how much they sell to you. Of course you will buy more from someone making great suggestions, offering top-notch service and the like. It's the same thing. As a server, I know that (for the most part) my pay is linked to how good my service is. That means I can make as much or as little as I want - obviously within reason of demographics and whatnot.

I have friends from other countries that have served in both places and they all prefer this system because of the OPPORTUNITY to make more money based on their level of service. Although they have said they don't have to try as hard or be as pleasant in their home countries and they get the same amount as if they were working hard and being super friendly. As a friend from Austraila put it 'I only had to work hard enough to not get fired'.....:D

As well, we know here due to our customs, what is a tipped profession and what isn't. We know that Doctors make a salary. We know that a lawyer makes a salary. We also know that servers are tipped. It's our culture - it's our job to know how society works here so no, we don't tip people that make a salary. It's like asking why we don't eat spaghetti with our hands - because that's not what society here dictates.

[scrozuk]

Hmm, compman, do agree that if you have the tipping culture, it doesn't necessarily mean you automatically get good service.

 

There is a distinct difference in being the receiver of good service from someone who is naturally keen to give good service, then there are those (and I did see a few last week!) who do the bare minimum. Who would you rather tip?

 

I did post something earlier regarding tipping, and I've seen this on several cruises. How many times have you gone to the main restaurant on the last evening, and seen neighbouring tables which on previous nights have been full suddenly devoid of people. To me this is a blatant, and shameful way of people avoiding providing a tip to the restaurant staff.

 

In all my time of cruising, I've never known a bad member of restaurant staff, and appreciate they all work hard for long hours, so never had any doubt in tipping.

 

ScrozUK

all tipped out

[luckyprincess]

It's not that us Brits dont like to tip, we are just not used to doing it. In the UK when you receive the final bill at a resturant a 10% service charge will have already been added to your bill thus no need to tip. If in some cases we feel that we have received excellent service we will leave a few coins on the table.

In the UK the lowest anyone can be paid is National Minimum Wage, which i believe is £5.80 a hour,so roughly $9.60 an hour. So in the US $9.60 an hour i gather would be an incredibly great wage for a waiter/waitress??

So it's not that we dont like to tip, in our counrty some of us do tip but it is not custom in our country to do so when most of the time a 10% Service charge has been added and the staff already earn a desent wage.

 

CK x

$9.60 per hour is actually a terrible wage for a waiter/waitress in the U.S. For a server working in a mid level place, like Olive Garden for example, working a 5 hour dinner shift with 4 tables an hour (average amount) with check total averaging $30 (pretty low in my estimation) and an 18% tip they would average about $100 for their shift - making the pay $20 an hour. Obviously for higher end restaurants you would make much more since in our culture the tip is directly linked to the check total. That's why it's not just a job for college kids here but also for single mom's, dad's and other adults - you can make a living doing it here, although certainly you won't get rich doing it!:p

[marci22]

And before anyone says they are going to quit their job and be a server: it's not as easy as it looks, and you have to work nights, weekends and holidays. There are usually no benefits. You could lose your job at any time. It requires a skill set that everyone does not have, believe it or don't.

 

It's like any other job: the best people will demand the best wages. If cruises out of UK aren't resulting in tips for the workers, the good ones will be lost through attrition or transfers. The cruise lines can pay them a 'living wage', but then your cruise price will undoubtedly go up.

 

In real life, I rarely encounter surly or incompetent servers because the fact is, they won't survive the environment; the bad ones are quickly weeded out.

[luckyprincess]

And before anyone says they are going to quit their job and be a server: it's not as easy as it looks, and you have to work nights, weekends and holidays. There are usually no benefits. You could lose your job at any time. It requires a skill set that everyone does not have, believe it or don't.

 

It's like any other job: the best people will demand the best wages. If cruises out of UK aren't resulting in tips for the workers, the good ones will be lost through attrition or transfers. The cruise lines can pay them a 'living wage', but then your cruise price will undoubtedly go up.

 

In real life, I rarely encounter surly or incompetent servers because the fact is, they won't survive the environment; the bad ones are quickly weeded out.

Great point! I can remember many a 'training' server coming in for their first training shift and they never came back!:p Happened all the time - people just don't realize how long you're on your feet and all of the many challenging:rolleyes: people you have to deal with each day....:)

[MAZANDSTEVE]

And before anyone says they are going to quit their job and be a server: it's not as easy as it looks, and you have to work nights, weekends and holidays. There are usually no benefits. You could lose your job at any time. It requires a skill set that everyone does not have, believe it or don't.

 

It's like any other job: the best people will demand the best wages. If cruises out of UK aren't resulting in tips for the workers, the good ones will be lost through attrition or transfers. The cruise lines can pay them a 'living wage', but then your cruise price will undoubtedly go up.

 

In real life, I rarely encounter surly or incompetent servers because the fact is, they won't survive the environment; the bad ones are quickly weeded out.

 

 

 

The cruise price goes up anyway after adding on what you need to take for tips! Makes no difference really. And then at least they will get paid the correct amount.