AARP Magazine- Class action suit against Carnival

[LambKnuckles]

I had cancelled my AARP subscription and memebeship last year... Didn't see it... but in this part of the world, people are litigious... and many seem to want something for nothing and feel they deserve it.

I've heard from many who were on the Splendor cruise -- and the RCCL's Mariner's cruise... all were mad that things were cancelled, all were OK with the compensation offered...

It's sad. Jessemon make a great point as do many others here!! Sad to see and that AARP would jump in without thinking about the facts and reasons...

[aggieastrosfan]

I thought they handled it well and we loved our half price aft wrap on the Victory in March.

 

We used ours for a wrap on the Victory as well. :D Even better was that we already had it booked before the ill-fated cruise and still got to use it on that. We used DS's discount on my brother's wedding cruise. We booked a suite and put him as tne 2nd pax to maximize his discount, instead of just getting half off a third person rate. ;)

 

Plus we got to sail in under the SF bridge which was fantastic.

 

I don't think I would've ever done this if it hadn't been for this cruise. That was amazing! I was out there when we left as well, it was awesome at night with everything lit up.

 

ETA - To the original topic, I thought Carnival's offer was more than fair, and I can't understand what more people could possibly be expecting??

[Texaslandshark]

We were on the Ecstasy Swine Flu cruise to nowhere. Nobody was happy with the situation but Carnival offered a 2 for 1 cruise and we booked and just had a great one...thank-you very much Carnival.

My wife just dumped AARP 2 days ago behind other unpopular stances they take.

Now, after reading this, I"ll have to give her a pat on the back;)

[RVman]

With the recent defections of thousands of AARP members, they’re probably just looking for extra revenue for themselves. I wouldn't give them a dime!

[pnjkeith]

Gimme Gimmee Gimmeee.

 

AARP has lost touch with reality. Dropped them when they backed Obamacare!

[Traveler353]

I don’t agree with many of the so called leaderships political leanings and positions, but they do a lot of good on many issues. The discounts for AARP membership make it worthwhile to sometimes just ignore them. ;)

[sharecruises]

This is just stupid...

 

really dense and dumb...IMHO those people were more than compensated

and I don't see why AARP should jump into the fray

 

They are just looking foolish and it serves them right

[steveaaaaa]

In my AARP magazine it mentions a class action suit filed regarding the ill fated Carnival Splendor Swine Flu cruise which I was on. The couple lost the first round but they are appealing and AARP got into it based on so many seniors on cruises . We all received a great 2 for 1 deal from that cruise and I thought it was over. Did anyone else see the article?

 

The way our legal system works, they have the right to sue.Its plain and simple.Whether you think its wrong or right,that is the way it is in this country.

Will they win? I think so but not what we all expect.This is a non US company who avoids US taxes and labor laws and ends up having a bad trip due to no fault of their own.There will be some sort of OBC or discount given to those who are part of the suit.

You can't advertise all these great ports and not go.The issue is the expenses people incurred that are not refundable to get to the ship to take the great 7 night 3 port cruise that did not happen.If it was so bad in Mexico,they should have cancelled the cruise and everyone's travel insurance would have paid off.If you did not have travel insurance all you had to do was post here and a host and John H would have taken care of it anyway.

Its not a matter of who is wrong or right,its a matter of the cost to defend it.Bring in old people in droves and you have a whole new head ache.

 

As far as the validity of a class action.If a judge enjoins them,then CCL has to live with the judges decision and use their right to appeal.

 

Steve

[jimbo5544]

The way our legal system works, they have the right to sue.Its plain and simple.Whether you think its wrong or right,that is the way it is in this country.

Will they win? I think so but not what we all expect.This is a non US company who avoids US taxes and labor laws and ends up having a bad trip due to no fault of their own.There will be some sort of OBC or discount given to those who are part of the suit.

You can't advertise all these great ports and not go.The issue is the expenses people incurred that are not refundable to get to the ship to take the great 7 night 3 port cruise that did not happen.If it was so bad in Mexico,they should have cancelled the cruise and everyone's travel insurance would have paid off.If you did not have travel insurance all you had to do was post here and a host and John H would have taken care of it anyway.

Its not a matter of who is wrong or right,its a matter of the cost to defend it.Bring in old people in droves and you have a whole new head ache.

 

As far as the validity of a class action.If a judge enjoins them,then CCL has to live with the judges decision and use their right to appeal.

 

Steve

 

I think the point is not what our legal system allows (we can digress and discuss that for eons) but what is right. Facts are: Carnival stepped up to the plate and delivered. They were hit much harder than any other cruise line (almost 80% of Carnival cruises have a stop in Mexico). Could they have canceled the cruises? Sure. Would there still have been a TON of disgruntled passengers yes. Read the cruise contract, it details what they need to do...which they did.

 

Check out how many people have cruise insurance on your next cruise with an informal survey (we totally think everyone should have it or don't complain). Class action benefit who????.....the lawyers (by a vast margin). Pure and simple. That is what is wrong with the whole mess. Of all the things AARP can jump on, this is a joke. The only thing that is more of a joke is those embarasing vids on youtube of the screamers in the lobby of the Splendor, filmed during that cruise.

[Vanessa L]

OMG!!! Don't mention that subject.

 

 

I am tired of dealing with patients nearly every day who want to know about their "free healthcare".:eek: You think people get snarky over saved deck chairs? Try telling them that there isn't a "free healthcare" program and they start screaming that they know there is because Obama told them so.:rolleyes:

 

That one made me LOL!

 

The real issue with the Swine flu cruise was "NO warm ports" only a stop at Long Beach to let off those who wanted to leave and then a stop in SAN FRANCISCO in the pouring rain. I don't remember much sun and there was a day with rough seas for a while. I had dramamine, a jacket and bought a $1 rain poncho. We took the city tour and afterward ate at our favorite restaurant SCOMAs. I take a few cruises a year so it was not my only vacation and that is why I wasn't too upset. For others it was their only vacation and understandably they were much more disappointed! But the 2 for 1 offer good anytime , any ship for 7 days was a great deal!!!!

 

I've actually read the cruise contract. I feel safe in saying I have never read that Carnival guarantees WARM ports. This is lose-lose right? Because had Carnival ignored the US Government's warning (if they could have), and gone to Mexico anyway, these same people would be suing because Carnival put them in harm's way. The person suing must have a gazillion dollars and nothing to do with is, since this is clearly a lost cause, no matter how many appeals they give.

 

I don’t agree with many of the so called leaderships political leanings and positions, but they do a lot of good on many issues. The discounts for AARP membership make it worthwhile to sometimes just ignore them. ;)

 

I prefer AAA myself. AARP is a menace, as this thread clearly points out. I am 4 years away from AARP. I'm sticking with AAA. The discounts are as good, if not better.

[steveaaaaa]

I think the point is not what our legal system allows (we can digress and discuss that for eons) but what is right. Facts are: Carnival stepped up to the plate and delivered. They were hit much harder than any other cruise line (almost 80% of Carnival cruises have a stop in Mexico). Could they have canceled the cruises? Sure. Would there still have been a TON of disgruntled passengers yes. Read the cruise contract, it details what they need to do...which they did.

 

Check out how many people have cruise insurance on your next cruise with an informal survey (we totally think everyone should have it or don't complain). Class action benefit who????.....the lawyers (by a vast margin). Pure and simple. That is what is wrong with the whole mess. Of all the things AARP can jump on, this is a joke. The only thing that is more of a joke is those embarasing vids on youtube of the screamers in the lobby of the Splendor, filmed during that cruise.

 

 

That is my point!!

 

This is a non US vessel, not paying US taxes yet they are based out of the US,use mostly foreign workers and they have a contract that is against the consumer.

 

Is that right?

 

Until you can see that they are intentionally doing the above,what happens later does not matter.

 

To word the above from a different way

 

They are a company purposely registering as foreign to beat the system

They use foreign flag as a way to avoid US taxes on their profit

They use foreign workes under the flag to avoid labor laws

They use a contract so they avoid any liability for everything

 

So who's the good guy here?Are they RIGHT in doing the above or would the right thing be to flag in the US so we get the money,pay US corporate taxes so our system gets the money,follow US labor laws so workers get a fair wage and not have to be stuck from non tippers,and have a passenger bill of rights that define compensation in the event of an issue?

 

Steve

[Aknot]

That is my point!!

 

So who's the good guy here?Are they RIGHT in doing the above or would the right thing be to flag in the US so we get the money,pay US corporate taxes so our system gets the money,follow US labor laws so workers get a fair wage and not have to be stuck from non tippers,and have a passenger bill of rights that define compensation in the event of an issue?

 

Steve

 

Sad thing about doing that is wouldn't it shoot the price to cruise through the roof?

 

MOST of your US companies can not compete with "foreign" companies just becasue of the cost of all the things you mentioned above.

 

We have gotten "fat and happy" and will no longer do the jobs or take the responsibilities our fathers fathers did, and we will never get that back.

[LemurCat]

That is my point!!

 

This is a non US vessel, not paying US taxes yet they are based out of the US,use mostly foreign workers and they have a contract that is against the consumer.

 

Is that right?

 

Not entirely. While the vessels aren't tagged in the US, the corporation is US-based. They do pay taxes, registration fees, etc. etc. etc. on the corporate end. As per their annual report, they paid 16 million in taxes in 2009 and 48 million in taxes in 2008.

 

And that's not even counting the taxes their shareholders paid on their dividends.

[Vanessa L]

Sad thing about doing that is wouldn't it shoot the price to cruise through the roof?

 

MOST of your US companies can not compete with "foreign" companies just becasue of the cost of all the things you mentioned above.

 

We have gotten "fat and happy" and will no longer do the jobs or take the responsibilities our fathers fathers did, and we will never get that back.

 

Witness the prices on th Pride of America. My daughter worked on that ship for one tour. She said moral was the lowest of anywhere she had ever witnessed. Even at US wages, she was working 60-70 hours per week. You are correct in saying that, for the most part, people in the US will not stand for those kinds of hours or work conditions. The reviews of the POA are not that great, with the majority of the complaints centering around bad employee attitudes. NCL, like all other cruise companies, doesn't care if their employees are miserable. They know that their employees volunteered to be there and can leave when their contract is up (unless they get fired, in which case, speaking only for NCL, they have to reimburse the cruise company for their airfare to the port and have to find their own way home vs. the cruise company paying their way home after their contract is up).

 

Perhaps Steve is correct in his summation about why cruiselines flag in other countries. However, if they all flagged here, there would be no such thing as a "reasonably priced cruise" any longer.

[LemurCat]

We have gotten "fat and happy" and will no longer do the jobs or take the responsibilities our fathers fathers did, and we will never get that back.

 

Seriously? I know you're trying to make a point, but people in the shipboard service industry have always come from undeveloped countries or the underclasses of developed countries with a massive wage gap. My father's father never worked as a cabin steward, and I can almost guarantee you that anyone's who's father's father worked as a cabin steward emigrated to the US in the past two generations.

[blyle]

I just thought it was interesting that AARP would jump in and say that it had to do with seniors.

 

As for the You Tube videos , I was there and that was mild compared to what that jerk was saying doing in the theatre and at the Customer service desk. To top it off that group encouraged passengers to remove their tips thereby hurting the people that did the most for them.

[jimbo5544]

That is my point!!

 

This is a non US vessel, not paying US taxes yet they are based out of the US,use mostly foreign workers and they have a contract that is against the consumer.

 

Is that right?

 

Until you can see that they are intentionally doing the above,what happens later does not matter.

 

To word the above from a different way

 

They are a company purposely registering as foreign to beat the system

They use foreign flag as a way to avoid US taxes on their profit

They use foreign workes under the flag to avoid labor laws

They use a contract so they avoid any liability for everything

 

So who's the good guy here?Are they RIGHT in doing the above or would the right thing be to flag in the US so we get the money,pay US corporate taxes so our system gets the money,follow US labor laws so workers get a fair wage and not have to be stuck from non tippers,and have a passenger bill of rights that define compensation in the event of an issue?

 

Steve

All of which make them like every other cruise line....(for that manner almost every other business...check your contract for your next flight...and they are U.S. owned, with U.S. employees) my mistake except one NCL ship, and we all know how that works. Flag waving does not make situation any better or worse.

 

For me, it's not about who is the good guy or the bad guy, but what they contractually have or had) to do. I still think they went as far as a reasonable person would expect them to do.

 

 

Class action lawsuits just bring out the ambulance chasing scum and if history gives us a good example, provide little (if any) by the time you get done reading the fine print to the person harmed....the consumer.

[jimbo5544]

I just thought it was interesting that AARP would jump in and say that it had to do with seniors.

 

As for the You Tube videos , I was there and that was mild compared to what that jerk was saying doing in the theatre and at the Customer service desk. To top it off that group encouraged passengers to remove their tips thereby hurting the people that did the most for them.

 

I can only imagine. Certainly was not anyone's proud defining moment. Shame on them for taking it out on anyone there...let alone the staff who had no input or say in anything being done.

[dan40]

That is my point!!

 

This is a non US vessel, not paying US taxes yet they are based out of the US,use mostly foreign workers and they have a contract that is against the consumer.

 

Is that right?

 

Until you can see that they are intentionally doing the above,what happens later does not matter.

 

To word the above from a different way

 

They are a company purposely registering as foreign to beat the system

They use foreign flag as a way to avoid US taxes on their profit

They use foreign workes under the flag to avoid labor laws

They use a contract so they avoid any liability for everything

 

So who's the good guy here?Are they RIGHT in doing the above or would the right thing be to flag in the US so we get the money,pay US corporate taxes so our system gets the money,follow US labor laws so workers get a fair wage and not have to be stuck from non tippers,and have a passenger bill of rights that define compensation in the event of an issue?

 

Steve

 

 

Steve the aaaa, there is a little problem with your analysis of foreign flagging.

I'm sure CCL and ALL the other cruise lines don't mind the advantages of "flags of convenience." Which are primarily taxes. Labor conditions and pay are covered under a variety of maritime laws. Only the service workers are tip paid, all the rest make normal UNION wages, whether they are working a cruise ship or a cargo ship.

 

Additionally, any commercial vessel that stops in any US port is subject to a host of US laws and regulations.

 

The PRIMARY reason ships are foreign flagged is OUR nonsense laws. #1 is that in order to be a US registered ship, that ship MUST be built in the USA. That brings in 2 problems, cost and availability. Like thousands of land US companies, cruiselines use foreign labor to save money and the last cruiseline to TRY to build in the USA went out of business as did the shipyard in Mississippi. That's how NCL scammed the US Congress into allowing them to re-register a foreign built and flagged ship as a US ship. They took the uncompleted hull and parts from Ms. to Europe to finish the build. Congress was easily scammed since they had a large sum of our money in the failed builds.

 

Our laws say a ship must be built here and registered here, and if it is ever registered in a foreign nation, it can never again be registered in the US.

 

That and the no transportation between US ports without a stop at a 'distant' foreign port are part of our laws to protect our now vanished shipping and shipbuilding industry. Typical "unintended consequences" caused by politicians.

 

We DO not have the shipyards with the capability or capacity to supply the cruise industry. That stinks, that's sad, and that's true.

 

But CCL, RCL, etc., DO pay US taxes. And their workers, except for service workers, DO work under labor laws. It's that way here on land in the US too.

 

And I know of no company anywhere ever that wrote a contract in favor of the other guy! That's why contracts are negotiated! How is a cruise contract negotiated? They put it out there and you may purchase or not, your decision! If you choose to purchase, you have closed the negotiations and agreed to the contract.

[Mrs. Squirrel]

Nope, cancelled my AARP membership when they backed the new Health Care program.:(

 

The same reason we didn't join when DH became eligible this year.

[CruisefromNY]

We were on the cruise too. We are "Seniors" by AARP's definition.

 

We had a great time. We consider it one of our favorite cruises. We were disappointed in the treatment of the staff by the disgruntled guests. Why blame them, they were stuck too. We thanked everyone we encountered for their patience and dedication.

Good riddance to the 1500 or so disgruntleds who got off in Long Beach and off we went on an adventure.

The screen saver on my computer is a photo I found on line of us sailing under the Golden Gate Bridge on the "coldest, wettest "day San Fran had seen in awhile. Go to get back there.

We never wrote a letter or complained to anyone, We HAD A GREAT VACATION!!

The 50% off for another cruise was just the cherry to the icing on the cake.

 

We had the (mis)fortune to sail on the Miracle out of NY in October 2008 right after their "mutiny". The crew was still stunned and shell shocked when we boarded. We had a fantastic cruise and the crew was very grateful for our treatment of them. Kindness went a long way on that cruise.

 

Got to remember to pack your sense of humor and your sense of adventure when you cruise. Things happen that are under no one's control and we always remember that we are on vacation!.

[glrounds]

Class action suits, for the most part, ONLY make the lawyers rich.

[Traveler353]

.

 

 

 

I prefer AAA myself. AARP is a menace, as this thread clearly points out. I am 4 years away from AARP. I'm sticking with AAA. The discounts are as good, if not better.

 

You quoted me so I am doing the courteous thing and responding:

I don't think that this thread points out anything. It is strictly peoples personal opinions. Comparing AAA and AARP to each other is like comparing apples and oranges. Totally different organizations in every way. I am also a AAA member and have been for over 40 years. Mostly for the roadside assistance program and discounts. I am member of AARP for the additional discounts that are not afforded to AAA membership.

[gtalum]

That is my point!!

 

This is a non US vessel, not paying US taxes...

 

...They use foreign flag as a way to avoid US taxes on their profit

 

This is incorrect. Carnival is a US-headquartered corporation, and as such is required to pay taxes on all profit earned worldwide (with a tax credit for any taxes due and paid to other governments). The primary reason for foreign-flagging is to avoid US labor laws and various shipping laws.

[Crusin6]

In my AARP magazine it mentions a class action suit filed regarding the ill fated Carnival Splendor Swine Flu cruise which I was on. The couple lost the first round but they are appealing and AARP got into it based on so many seniors on cruises . We all received a great 2 for 1 deal from that cruise and I thought it was over. Did anyone else see the article?

I saw the article