Stockholder Benefit Denied

[brentp]

I am a long time owner of RCCL stock. I submitted a stockholder benefit request for our upcoming cruise and was denied because ". . . there is another discount or onboard credit offer already applied."

 

In reading this FAQ on the investor relations website, . . . I believe I should still be eligible for the benefit.

 

9. Combinability? Please note that as of December 31, 2008, the Shareholder Onboard Credit is no longer combinable with other Onboard Booking Credits, Loyalty Programs and/or other Reduced Fare Offerings. For bookings made prior to December 31, 2008, the Shareholder Onboard Credit is combinable under certain conditions. Please direct queries to investorrelations@rccl.com and a prompt response will be forthcoming.

 

This booking was;

 

- Not done onboard a prior sailing

- Not through a loyalty program

- At the then standard rate that all would pay at the time (which did included an OBC for all new bookings during a promotion period).

 

Given the OBC was available to everyone that booked during that booking window, I don't think that should be considered a Reduced Fare Offering - but maybe it is, I don't know.

 

Anyway, I haven't use the benefit since the rules changed, . . . but something doesn't sound quite right here. I have ask investor relations for more details. I also couldn't find this exact situation via a search, . . . so thought I would ask other stock holders if they have run into this with any of their bookings.

 

Maybe it is time to unload some of my remaining shares of RCCL, given the benefit is no longer what it use to be. Before anyone says anything, . . . I didn't buy these for the benefit (it has been a very positive investment) - but it has always been a nice perk of ownership.

[C 2 C]

- Not done onboard a prior sailing

- Not through a loyalty program

- At the then standard rate that all would pay at the time (which did included an OBC for all new bookings during a promotion period).

 

Given the OBC was available to everyone that booked during that booking window, I don't think that should be considered a Reduced Fare Offering - but maybe it is, I don't know.

 

Are you saying that the original booking was made prior to the cutoff date?

I know that OBC can't be combined, and for that reason I sold my stock. There are certain TAs that can give an OBC that replaces X's. Are prices higher or lower now or you can cancel and rebook?

[brentp]

No - this is a recent booking.

 

That said, the FAQ at investor relations says they are not combinable in 3 cases.

 

Booking made onboard - Not in this case.

Bookings made as part of the loyalty program - Not in this case.

Bookings made that are Reduce Fare Offerings - Don't believe so, but not sure.

 

To me, a reduce fare offering is a special offer made to a group and is not available to the general public. This booking was made a current rates, and the OBC from Celebrity is part of the booking. This is available to everyone that books during the booking window (Aug 1 - Aug 14).

 

I'm sure this is how RCCL will try to wiggle out, . . . but to me, if they wont combine company issued OBCs at all, they should just say that - which they don't.

 

Really asking so I can figure out how hard to push back on their response.

[Orator]

The Tuesday Special Deals are reduced fare rates that are available to the general public. You can find other "special rates" that do not involved group bookings. I am in agreement with Xellent's comments concerning stock ownership. In some cases that shareholder credit is less than the On board booking credit. For example, the shareholder credit for a 14 day cruise is $250 while the OBC is $300. X is making it almost impossible to combine a shareholder credit .You can still combine with a credit for price reduction after final payment, but that's really a "refund". Stock ownership should be based on investment not benefit potential and that is even clearer now than before.

[sixaz]

I got a very similar email from RCL today, in response to submitting my shareholder certificate. We received onboard credit from our travel agent, and paid full going rate at the time, so no discount, have never cruised with Celebrity before, so no onboard booking, and are not part of any loyalty programs.

 

Prior to even sending them my certificate, I emailed and asked them this exact question, "I received on board credit from my travel agent. Can I use both the TA credit, and the shareholder credit?". And I received the response of, "Once you receive your statement submit it to confirm the shareholder onboard credit to your reservation. We will notify you by email if this information is provided and requested. If your travel agent is giving you an onboard credit and it is not part of a special promotion offered by the Cruise Line, this will be combinable with your benefit."

 

I wrote back and included both emails from the same woman, and asked for her to explain the discrepancy.

 

Can anyone tell us, and Brent, how others have been able to get both recently? I know the policy went into effect 1/1/09, so plenty of other people must be in a similar position. I know from reading the boards, that people have gotten both, so maybe somebody can share with us what we need to do to ensure that both are applied.

 

Thanx!

[Orator]

My TA gave "free gratuities" and that was combined. That staement from Celebrity acurately reflects their current policy. If X provides the credit, either directly or through a TA it may not be combined. If it comes directly from the TA, largely through a reduction in their commission, it may be combined. If you are a Captain's Club member speak to the Captain's Club Representative. You may want to search other Threads on this topic. Good luck.

[brentp]

That staement from Celebrity acurately reflects their current policy. If X provides the credit, either directly or through a TA it may not be combined.

 

I'm sorry, . . . which statement from Celebrity says this? The EMAIL response I got, which is very vague and doesn't specify what the issue is, . . .

 

". . . there is another discount or onboard credit offer already applied."

 

of the FAQ on the investor relation website, . . . which should accurately reflect their policy?

 

9. Combinability?Please note that as of December 31, 2008, the Shareholder Onboard Credit is no longer combinable with other Onboard Booking Credits, Loyalty Programs and/or other Reduced Fare Offerings. For bookings made prior to December 31, 2008, the Shareholder Onboard Credit is combinable under certain conditions. Please direct queries to investorrelations@rccl.com and a prompt response will be forthcoming.

 

I am not convince that this FAQ statement excludes combinability in all cases. There are only 3 exclusions. The first two exclusion are obviously not the issue here. So, I guess the question is coming down to if the current rate they are offering to all bookings made at the going rate between Aug 1st and Aug 14th (which includes a Celebrity OBC) is considered a "Reduced Fare Offering"?

 

Not by my definition, . . . but most likely it is in theirs.

[jagoffee]

I'm sorry, . . . which statement from Celebrity says this? The EMAIL response I got, which is very vague and doesn't specify what the issue is, . . .

 

". . . there is another discount or onboard credit offer already applied."

 

of the FAQ on the investor relation website, . . . which should accurately reflect their policy?

 

9. Combinability?Please note that as of December 31, 2008, the Shareholder Onboard Credit is no longer combinable with other Onboard Booking Credits, Loyalty Programs and/or other Reduced Fare Offerings. For bookings made prior to December 31, 2008, the Shareholder Onboard Credit is combinable under certain conditions. Please direct queries to investorrelations@rccl.com and a prompt response will be forthcoming.

 

I am not convince that this FAQ statement excludes combinability in all cases. There are only 3 exclusions. The first two exclusion are obviously not the issue here. So, I guess the question is coming down to if the current rate they are offering to all bookings made at the going rate between Aug 1st and Aug 14th (which includes a Celebrity OBC) is considered a "Reduced Fare Offering"?

 

Not by my definition, . . . but most likely it is in theirs.

 

I believe that you are correct. Any OBC given by Celebrity would not be combinable with the shareholder credit.

[Snorkel2Much]

I'm sorry, . . . which statement from Celebrity says this? The EMAIL response I got, which is very vague and doesn't specify what the issue is, . . .

 

". . . there is another discount or onboard credit offer already applied."

 

of the FAQ on the investor relation website, . . . which should accurately reflect their policy?

 

9. Combinability?Please note that as of December 31, 2008, the Shareholder Onboard Credit is no longer combinable with other Onboard Booking Credits, Loyalty Programs and/or other Reduced Fare Offerings. For bookings made prior to December 31, 2008, the Shareholder Onboard Credit is combinable under certain conditions. Please direct queries to investorrelations@rccl.com and a prompt response will be forthcoming.

 

I am not convince that this FAQ statement excludes combinability in all cases. There are only 3 exclusions. The first two exclusion are obviously not the issue here. So, I guess the question is coming down to if the current rate they are offering to all bookings made at the going rate between Aug 1st and Aug 14th (which includes a Celebrity OBC) is considered a "Reduced Fare Offering"?

 

Not by my definition, . . . but most likely it is in theirs.

<emphasis mine> So can you share the "prompt response" you recieved from investorrelations@rccl.com ?

[English muffin]

No - this is a recent booking.

 

That said, the FAQ at investor relations says they are not combinable in 3 cases.

 

Booking made onboard - Not in this case.

Bookings made as part of the loyalty program - Not in this case.

Bookings made that are Reduce Fare Offerings - Don't believe so, but not sure.

 

To me, a reduce fare offering is a special offer made to a group and is not available to the general public. This booking was made a current rates, and the OBC from Celebrity is part of the booking. This is available to everyone that books during the booking window (Aug 1 - Aug 14).

 

I'm sure this is how RCCL will try to wiggle out, . . . but to me, if they wont combine company issued OBCs at all, they should just say that - which they don't.

 

 

 

 

Really asking so I can figure out how hard to push back on their response.

 

Hello brentp

Exactly the same problem happened to us last year. We had a small discount on our cruises last year which was available to anyone who booked the cruise. Celebrity would not give me the shareholders benefit, the discount was less then the OBC so I missed out in the end.

[dbub]

Not sure if this will help, but ...

 

I booked a cruise with a TA and was offered an OBC from them. Then I applied for the Shareholder's Benefit and received the following:

 

As offers are not combinable, the requested shareholder's onboard credit cannot be applied to reservation #@@@@@@@ because there is another discount or onboard credit offer already applied. If you wish to take advantage of the shareholder's offer instead of the other offer, please contact your travel agent to have that offer removed. Once the other offer is removed, please re-submit your complete request.

 

I too then contacted my TA who replied:

 

I spoke to Celebrity this morning and they advised that the Share Holder Benefits can't be added to your reservation due to the Captain's Club Savings Certificate ($100) that is currently on your reservation. So it actually doesn't involve the onboard credit that you are receiving as an amenity from us.

 

After checking my invoice from Celebrity for the Captain's Club Savings Certificate discount and not finding it, I asked my TA to pursue further and she replied:

 

I spoke to Celebrity this afternoon and they advised that the savings certificate was a glitch in their system and Celebrity has removed the savings certificate from the reservation. (The savings certificate does not show up on the cruise line confirmation, it was only showing in their internal system.) Celebrity also advised that you will be able to resubmit your Share Holder information to get the onboard credit.

 

They did ... and I did ... and they did ... and now the Shareholder's benefit is applied on the new invoice as:

 

SB06-$100 SGL OBC

 

Yes, the TA's OBC remains on this reservation, too. So, continue to push for details and find the conflict. GOOD LUCK !!

[brentp]

RMEBOB - your story does help, . . . thanks for sharing and I am going to continue to push.

 

ENGLISH MUFFIN - thanks for sharing. I guess RCCL could take the position then that any discount below brochure rates could be considered a Reduced Fare Offering, . . . which for all intent & purposes, eliminates the benefit completely. I don't think anyone pays brochure rates.

 

SNORKEL2MUCH - too funny - and thanks for the emphasis!!!! I think you missed it, but I did exactly that, . . . and knowing I really would get a prompt response, . . . amazingly, I still decided to come here to see what others are getting for responses. :)

 

Thanks for all the feedback. So, . . . it sounds like to me, independent of what their policy statements are on their website, RCCL will not combine with any OBCs that comes from them. Think they need to update their policy statements then if that is the case.

[C 2 C]

I am a long time owner of RCCL stock. I submitted a stockholder benefit request for our upcoming cruise and was denied because ". . . there is another discount or onboard credit offer already applied."

 

In reading this FAQ on the investor relations website, . . . I believe I should still be eligible for the benefit.

 

9. Combinability? Please note that as of December 31, 2008, the Shareholder Onboard Credit is no longer combinable with other Onboard Booking Credits, Loyalty Programs and/or other Reduced Fare Offerings. For bookings made prior to December 31, 2008, the Shareholder Onboard Credit is combinable under certain conditions. Please direct queries to investorrelations@rccl.com and a prompt response will be forthcoming.

 

Sorry but I don't understand your problem based on this policy.

 

If you receive an OBC from Celebrity for any reason, their policy will not allow a stock credit.

 

Any booking made prior to December 31, 2008 was eligible for a Celebrity OBC and the stock credit. After that no booking can have a stock credit and an OBC from Celebrity. You may receive an OBC from a travel agent and a Celebrity OBC OR Stockholders benefit.

 

It's not that I agree with the policy but the policy is as clear as anything that Celebrity puts in print. ;)

[Lsimon]

...(which did included an OBC for all new bookings during a promotion period).

 

Given the OBC was available to everyone that booked during that booking window, I don't think that should be considered a Reduced Fare Offering - but maybe it is, I don't know....

 

Yes it should be considered a reduced fare booking since it did include an OBC. This is the way the program is explained on the web site and they way it worked. I don't see any confusion here.

[The_Big_M]

Yes it should be considered a reduced fare booking since it did include an OBC. This is the way the program is explained on the web site and they way it worked. I don't see any confusion here.

 

A spending credit isn't a fare reduction so I could see the cause for confusion if that's the issue.

[Lsimon]

A spending credit isn't a fare reduction so I could see the cause for confusion if that's the issue.

 

...In reading this FAQ on the investor relations website, . . . I believe I should still be eligible for the benefit....

 

Could be that I've heard so much about this on the CC boards, and in prior cruises, that I just knew of the rules. On re-reading things I guess it the FAQ isn't totally clear on the Brentp's question. But an FAQ is just an FAQ and not policy but only attempts to answer some "Frequently Asked Questions" about the policy. The Shareholder Benefit is spelled out in the letter to shareholders revised from time to time and mailed out once a year with the proxy statement. The most recent benefit letter includes the following phrase:

Benefit is not combinable with other onboard credit offers, general loyalty offers, “dollars off” promotions and savings certificates.

 

I've attached a copy of the letter to this post and it is on RCCL's Investor Relations website: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9NTM3NDR8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1

RCCL-Shareholder-Benefit.pdf

[DEL67]

I had a similar experience.

 

I booked with an online TA who offered $100 OBC per person. At first my stock holder OBC was rejected because it turned out I had booked a loyalty rate.

 

A few weeks later I noticed the price that I paid was thestandard rate. I called my TA and asked to be rebooked at that rate. When the TA contacted Celebrity, he found there was a resident rate that brought the fare down another $100 pp and booked us at that rate. That rate was combinable with the stockholder's benefit so now I am paying $100 pp less and have my $200 stockholders OBC in addition to the TA OBC.

 

(the

Not sure if this will help, but ...

 

I booked a cruise with a TA and was offered an OBC from them. Then I applied for the Shareholder's Benefit and received the following:

 

As offers are not combinable, the requested shareholder's onboard credit cannot be applied to reservation #@@@@@@@ because there is another discount or onboard credit offer already applied. If you wish to take advantage of the shareholder's offer instead of the other offer, please contact your travel agent to have that offer removed. Once the other offer is removed, please re-submit your complete request.

 

I too then contacted my TA who replied:

 

I spoke to Celebrity this morning and they advised that the Share Holder Benefits can't be added to your reservation due to the Captain's Club Savings Certificate ($100) that is currently on your reservation. So it actually doesn't involve the onboard credit that you are receiving as an amenity from us.

 

After checking my invoice from Celebrity for the Captain's Club Savings Certificate discount and not finding it, I asked my TA to pursue further and she replied:

 

I spoke to Celebrity this afternoon and they advised that the savings certificate was a glitch in their system and Celebrity has removed the savings certificate from the reservation. (The savings certificate does not show up on the cruise line confirmation, it was only showing in their internal system.) Celebrity also advised that you will be able to resubmit your Share Holder information to get the onboard credit.

 

They did ... and I did ... and they did ... and now the Shareholder's benefit is applied on the new invoice as:

 

SB06-$100 SGL OBC

 

Yes, the TA's OBC remains on this reservation, too. So, continue to push for details and find the conflict. GOOD LUCK !!

[billrau]

I had a similar experience.

 

I booked with an online TA who offered $100 OBC per person. At first my stock holder OBC was rejected because it turned out I had booked a loyalty rate.

 

A few weeks later I noticed the price that I paid was thestandard rate. I called my TA and asked to be rebooked at that rate. When the TA contacted Celebrity, he found there was a resident rate that brought the fare down another $100 pp and booked us at that rate. That rate was combinable with the stockholder's benefit so now I am paying $100 pp less and have my $200 stockholders OBC in addition to the TA OBC.

 

(the

I TOO HAVE BEEN DENIED THE SHAREHOLDER OBC, WHICH I BELIEVE IS COMPLETELY WRONG. ANY DISCOUNT AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS, OBVIOUSLY, SEPARATE FROM SPECIAL BENEFITS AVAILABLE TO STOCKHOLDERS ONLY. OTHERWISE WHAT DOES ONE GAIN BY OWNING THE STOCK?

 

I HAVE SUBMITTED A REQUEST TO HAVE THE BENEFIT RESTORED, AS IT PROPERLY SHOULD BE. LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.

 

BILL:mad::mad::confused:

[The_Big_M]

ANY DISCOUNT AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS, OBVIOUSLY, SEPARATE FROM SPECIAL BENEFITS AVAILABLE TO STOCKHOLDERS ONLY.

 

However, the fact there is a shareholder's benefit doesn't mean it's available for every booking.

[Lsimon]

...I BELIEVE IS COMPLETELY WRONG. ANY DISCOUNT AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS, OBVIOUSLY, SEPARATE FROM SPECIAL BENEFITS AVAILABLE TO STOCKHOLDERS ONLY. OTHERWISE WHAT DOES ONE GAIN BY OWNING THE STOCK?

 

I HAVE SUBMITTED A REQUEST TO HAVE THE BENEFIT RESTORED, AS IT PROPERLY SHOULD BE. LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.

 

BILL:mad::mad::confused:

 

I agree with the principle of your statement 100%, unfortunately RCCL can set whatever terms it likes for a shareholder benefit and the terms they have set does not allow it to be combined with another discount or credit they provide.

 

As to "what does one gain by owning the stock?". Stock ownership is an investment in the company which is only appropriate if your analysis, or that of a professional investment advisor, gives you confidence that it will appreciate within the goals of an investment plan. While the stockholder benefit is a nice plus, it shouldn't really play a part of the justification for owning $3,000 or more of stock - especially if the receipt of the benefit is uncertain according to its terms - which it apparently is in this example. I've owned stock in companies like Ford, Apple and utilities without any expectations of getting discounts on cars, computers or my electric bill.

[rickechambers1@aol.com]

[quote=billrau;25600217OTHERWISE WHAT DOES ONE GAIN BY OWNING THE STOCK?

BILL:mad::mad::confused:

 

Uh...hopefully a financial return on their investment. Just because I own Proctor and Gamble stock doesnt mean I get free Tide.

 

Wonder how many 'stockholders' own the minimal shares to receive the discount. Also, as a stockholder, I am sure that you want profits to be as high as possible to get the best return on your money; essentially, by removing further discounts, you are benefiting.

[brentp]

Could be that I've heard so much about this on the CC boards, and in prior cruises, that I just knew of the rules. On re-reading things I guess it the FAQ isn't totally clear on the Brentp's question. But an FAQ is just an FAQ and not policy but only attempts to answer some "Frequently Asked Questions" about the policy. The Shareholder Benefit is spelled out in the letter to shareholders revised from time to time and mailed out once a year with the proxy statement. The most recent benefit letter includes the following phrase:

Benefit is not combinable with other onboard credit offers, general loyalty offers, “dollars off” promotions and savings certificates.

 

I've attached a copy of the letter to this post and it is on RCCL's Investor Relations website: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9NTM3NDR8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1

 

I appreciate your read of the FAQ and understanding it may not be total clear. I guess I don't feel the letter is totally clear either, . . . or, maybe are we are just reading things differently. A lot of people are saying, stockholder OBC can not be combined with any other OBC from celebrity. Nowhere does it say this that I can find.

 

This is not a "dollars off" promotion nor were any savings certificates used.

 

It is the going rate, . . . just happens to include an OBC. FWIW, the rate is the same today (and has been the same deal for ~ 2 weeks) - anyone could go to Celebrity and book the same cruise, same cabin class, will would pay the same price as my booking, . . . and they would get the same OBC. No coupons, no loyalty program, no nothing - everybody would get this deal just for booking sometime over the last 2 weeks.

 

So, . . . I still have to ask, why is the booking being considered a Reduced Fare Offering (or dollars off - or what ever) when it is what the general public is paying? From the EMAIL response, it sounds like their position is simply because an OBC is already on the account. If that is the case, they need to update their policy and simply state that stockholder OBC can not be combine with any other OBC given by Celebrity at the time of booking.

 

Sounds more like there is the policy, . . . and then there is they way they have implemented it, and they may not be consistent with each other.

 

I wont defend the cruise line here, . . . even though I am a stock holder. Not that it matters, but our stock holding is way more than the minimum required to get this credit - it is part of our investment portfolio - and I just don't want folks to think this is the only reason I own RCCL. That said, this is a published perk for being a stock holder, . . . and I believe my booking should qualify based on what I can read from the company.

 

I guess I have gotten the feedback I am looking for, . . . now I need to discuss with investor relations.

 

Thx,

[Lsimon]

1. Quoted from your post:

...If that is the case, they need to update their policy and simply state that stockholder OBC can not be combine with any other OBC given by Celebrity at the time of booking. ...

 

2. Quoted from their Shareholder benefit offer:

...Benefit is not combinable with other onboard credit offers ...

I think they have done what you say they need to do. I really don't see how the underlined portions above, one from your post and one from the offer itself, differ.

[brentp]

1. Quoted from your post:

 

 

2. Quoted from their Shareholder benefit offer:

 

I think they have done what you say they need to do. I really don't see how the underlined portions above, one from your post and one from the offer itself, differ.

 

Ahhh, . . . good point. I still had the wording from the FAQ in my head (Onboard Booking vs Onboard credit). So I missed that slight difference when reading the *.pdf letter. Thanks.

 

It is still a poor policy - IMHO - to deny a booking made at the going rate from receiving the benefit. If I had gotten a discount from some other means, I would understand not wanting to combine the benefit. That is not the case here, hence my frustration. Oh well, . . .

[TelecasterPlayer]

deleted. posted on the wrong thread =)