Is it time to change the policy on auto tipping?

[solocanadian]

Sounds like an excellent idea to me.

How in the world can anyone justify punishing the crew by withholding tips due to an Act of God?

 

We were on that cruise and I can tell you that every crew person (be them Officer/ crew/ staff) we encountered on Maasdam gave 100% in their attempts to please the guests and provide the best cruise possible. Following the announcement about Hurricane Earl interrupting our cruise, crew went into 'overdrive' and it seemed they went to extremes in efforts to salvage a happy, cruise mood aboard. They worked even harder, if that is possible to describe. Despite their efforts, it is true it felt as though the cruise ended at the time of the announcement. The mood was absolutely different.

 

I think the deadbeats who removed the tips were looking for any reason to be their cheap selves at the expense of hardworking people doing their jobs so well with every ounce of extra effort they possessed.

 

IMO, there should be a way in the computer to make a mark against their names identifying them as 'guests ?' HAL could well do without and refuse to sell them a future cruise. If they punish the crew in that way, who needs their cheap business?

 

Like your suggestion of a LIST but imagine that would be considered Profiling.

I would like to see a list though for these cheapskates to never be given a free upgrade or upsell offer.

[Pettifogger]

bobg makes an excellent suggestion which means its unlikely to receive a warm reception.

[solocanadian]

That 72 hour thing might work on 7 day cruises. But for longer cruises -- I for one would not like to see that ruling.

 

I did read about people removing the Hotel Service Charge just because they missed 3 ports -- just plain stupid. In 2009 we missed 4 ports because of the Swine Flu -- picked up only 1 port -- and the rest were all sea days. I guess we were lucky that we were sailing with a more mature group as I didn't hear complaints of all those sea days. And the crew -- staff -- everyone had to work etra hard to keep everyone entertained -- which they did a great job of.

The same applied to me in 2009 on the Oosterdam. Never did I hear anyone complaining about the tipping.

[3rdGenCunarder]

We took our first cruise ever in June this year on HAL to Alaska. We honestly were somewhat disappointed in the service we received in the MDR and our cabin, I guess mostly because of expectations of this "red carpet pampered service" our friends and family members who had cruised in the past ... before automatic tipping, had, which was not quite our experience. We found the service to be less than our expectations ... especially in the MDR ... other passengers we sailed with voiced the same opinions. Maybe part of the problem here was the fact that we had open seating and not the same wait staff every night, but even so we should have received the same service. I can't help but feel that the automatic tipping sets the stage for less than stellar service. Where is the incentive to please when the tip is an automatic given, and one that can be removed at that?? Yes, some people will tip above the automatic charge ... but not everyone will. Just my honest opinion on the subject.

 

I think the open seating is a lot of the problem. Once lines went to open seating, it became too difficult for passengers to tip waitstaff. So the lines started the autotip/service charge policy. That way all waiters get tipped, even if they serve different people every night.

 

On another line, I can say that service definitely went downhill. But with your experience on HAL, I blame open seating.

 

The kitchen on a ship is set up in stations. Waiters who are working in the fixed dining area usually go to the kitchen for items from a single course. So they go to one station, such as salads, pick up a big bunch of them, and get back to the table quickly. It's easy to pace the meal well, and there is less hubub around the tables, which I find makes for a better dining experience.

 

When waiters work in the open seating area, they can have tables at many different courses. They have to make more trips to the kitchen and visit more stations in the kitchen. The pacing is harder to keep, too. A passenger can eat an appetizer in less time than a main course. So if one table is served appetizers and another is served main courses, one of those tables will need a trip to the kitchen before the other one does. This makes for more bustle around the dining room.

 

I think it's easier to work the fixed dining, and I wonder if a reward for being a good waiter is to be moved upstairs. People who want fixed dining often say they choose it to get the same waiters every night. HAL probably things that these passengers value good table service, so they assign the best waiters to these passengers. That leaves the not-best (still good IMO, but not the best) downstairs in open seating. These are also probably the less experienced waiters.

[CaveDiving]

Hi All,

 

I believe that automatic tipping is a part of the HAL cruise experience and is basically a portion of the cruise expense. While I and virtually every other passenger with whom I have spoken, certainly believe that the service on HAL is exemplary, I have had conversations with several passengers from countries where tipping is not as common as it is in the US. They seem to object strongly to the concept of automatic tipping.

 

Their opinion is “pay the employees a reasonable wage and let me tip for extra service, but the HAL policy does not permit this”. I am told that if the automatic tipping is reduced or eliminated, any tip given to any employee must be turned in to the pool and cannot be kept by the employee to whom it was given. So they simply say “OK, since I cannot give a tip to reward the employees I choose, then I will not tip at all”. And they simply do not pay the $2,000 to $2,500 hotel service charge on a World Cruise or the extra say, $1,000 to $2,000 in tips, they would like to share with specific employees.

 

This is a problem I believe HAL needs to address.

 

Scott & Karen

[Don Haynes]

Many Europeans hotels and restaurants have service charges. None of these European service charges can be removed or adjusted. All of the cruise lines ought to follow, eliminating tips completely, but also not allowing anyone to remove or reduce a service charge/auto tip... Be done with the cheapskate Scrooges once and for all...:D:D:D:D

[geocruiser]

I love the auto tipping. But I wish it was included in the cruise fare. We traveled on Azamara this past March when they still had auto tipping in place. We are going again on Azamara ( 2/27/11) and this time the tip is included in the cruise fare. So, I am going to see if there is any difference in ship board services.

The auto tip is just a starting point for me and it goes up from there. Only one cruise line ( MSC) did I ever have a proublem with the service. I would NEVER sail with them again.

I believe they (HAL"S crew and staff) work very hard and it would be unfair to take off the tip because of Earl.

 

Maria

[Jade13]

I was on the Maasdam cruise that missed 3 of the 5 ports and I can tell you there are passengers that do not understand the policy, whether or not it is posted or left in their stateroom. They have not read it.

 

I was at the front desk Thursday night actually trying to get the rest of the hotel charge/tips added to our account so I could cash out. At the time we were told that all canceled tours would be refunded in cash even though they were paid by credit card (the next morning the ship had "permission" to put any monies due back on our credit card - I had to wait until the next morning because accounting would not be done until 11:00pm).

 

Anyway, a women at the counter next to mine was having her tips removed and the reason she stated was that she had given cash tips to those she wished. She obviously had not idea the money would be pulled (It was being pulled in the dining room too because I saw the dining room stewards tossing cash into a drawer). I believe as stated earlier that many passengers probably use this excuse to tip less than $11.00pp per day because who would know.

 

I am not sure where the hotel policy is displayed but I believe a good number of pax who do not know the monies will be pulled. Sorry I'm a little OT on the subject of not tipping due to missed ports.

 

This cruise was "off". As a small example, we only received pillow chocolates the first two nights and when I asked our room steward was told he was not given them (at least on our deck) to give to the passengers. Even though I had mentioned this they were not there the next night either. I have never had that happen on a HAL ship. He did bring us slippers in place of the chocolates....As mentioned on another thread the pools were closed the last 2 plus days so passengers could have been upset about more than the ports. They were people on cell phones in the lobby trying to arrange taxis and tours in Boston as apparently HAL had no arrangements. There was a sign with directions on using the shuttle/bus for $2.00 to get to Quincy market. The women I was speaking to was trying to make other arrangements as her husband (or friend) had a motility issue and HAL could not help them.

[sevenseasnomad]

. I can see how people get frustrated with the tipping policy when they encouter bad service from one part of the crew, i.e. the room steward or waiter. They are getting their share of the tips although they gave lousy service while another crew member worked extra hard and got the same tip. I don't know what the solution is for this. I guess it would be too difficult to have separate auto tipping for room stewards, dining room staff, and then everyone else.

 

Computers on board track every passenger. Would it be so difficult to track individual staff performance? Complaints against a room steward with a requested removal of tip goes into the computer as a debit against his total. At the end of a cruise, each staff who does not earn the full gratuity also receives a print-out of the complaint(s). This would either improve his service or he might seek other employment. To be fair, however, a complaining passenger should have communicated the problem before he requests that the auto tip be removed. IMO, removing a tip should be the last resort.

 

In making this suggestion, I'm counting on fellow passengers to understand that the staff who serve us on our cruises work hard and deserve compensation from us for this service. As others have posted, they give additional tips to those crewmembers who have performed above & beyond. To remove tips simply because a passenger is too cheap, or because a hurricane ruined the cruise, or to run to the front desk to have all tips removed without trying to work out a problem, first with the crewmember, then with their immediate supervisor, smacks of selfishness in the extreme.

 

We were impressed with HAL's service the 1st time we cruised with them. The one area we were not pleased with was addressed and corrected immediately, and that waiter did receive extra at the end of the trip.

[navybankerteacher]

This policy seems madness, surely you should be able to remove an auto-tip just for the person who has delivered bad service?

In the case of twodogmom, where the situation was bought to Hal's attention and did not improve, one should be able to remove the tips to that staff member who is not going a good job, without effecting the others.

 

What everyone on here seems to be saying is that you dare not remove an auto-service charge even if you receive bad service, which does not improve after complaining?

 

The point is, if you remove the autotip you punish all the staff. The fact is, if you raise the issue of poor service and identify the staff member, his compensation will be affected - perhaps not through the autotip, but certainly through delayed or witheld promotion, and posssibly even dismissal. If it is a repeat offense, you should again raise the issue - the line does respond to valid complaints -- and there most certainly is promotion possibility for staff members who do good work -- it is up to the passengers to speak up about good servive also.

[Barocl]

I think the Hotel Service Charge (auto tip) should be included in the cruise fare. Failing that there shouldn't be anyway a passenger could reduce or eliminate his share. On some cruises there are many passengers at the front office have their auto tip cancelled. Last cruise we were waiting for our ride to the pier from our hotel. The vehicle arrived with passenger that had just finished their cruise. When they realized we were going on the ship they couldn't wait to tells us we could cancel our auto tip. There was no suggestion that bad service or any other excuse was needed, it was just a way of not paying. It makes me mad that some people are so cheap. At first I was against the new system, now I like it and still tip extra to those that I think go above and beyond their assigned duty. Take care.

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

I agree that the hotel charge - tip or whatever should be called a service charge and not be allowed to be removed by the passenger. Or add it to the the original cost we pay so it never appears on the statement we receive on the ship. For some reason, the cruise lines don't want to do the latter,

 

Some cruise lines ask if you want to pay the service charge- tip when you pay for your cruise. The only time we have done that was when it was part of a group booking and was required.

 

If the cruise lines would adopt a non removable service charge, there would be no discussion on tipping - only on additional tipping.

 

Barbara

[jtl513]

I love the auto tipping. But I wish it was included in the cruise fare.

The Service Charge would then become commissionable, and 10% or so of the money would go to travel agents instead of the crews.

[VermeulT]

What I would like to see is -- keep the auto tipping, but let me distribute the amount of money to each person.:) I would decide how much the cabin attendants, waiters, etc. each got. This could be done by me giving them a chit that they turn in to the office. The total amount would be deducted from my account and any chits not turned in would be put in the pool.

 

I like this idea - best of both worlds. When HAL started the auto-tipping I was at first disappointed because the people who helped ME weren't getting MY money. But I came to accept the pool concept because yes, there are others behind the scenes that help too. And if someone special helps ME - then I give them extra.

 

We tried giving extra to a bartender on Princess when they had auto-tip and her supervisor took it and added it to the pool - that was not the point of the extra...

[Jade13]

I think the Hotel Service Charge (auto tip) should be included in the cruise fare.

 

I agree.

 

It is done that way on "luxury" lines/tour companies. They are included in the price paid on SilverSea, Swan Hellenic (at least in Antarctica with A&K), and Azamara. On Celebrity if the cruise fare is at least about $500.00 many/most TA's will pay it as the bonus for booking through them, and pre-payment is required I believe if one has open dining. HAL is the only cruise line where I see these daily "Hotel" charges.

[serendipity1499]

We took our first cruise ever in June this year on HAL to Alaska. We honestly were somewhat disappointed in the service we received in the MDR and our cabin, I guess mostly because of expectations of this "red carpet pampered service" our friends and family members who had cruised in the past ... before automatic tipping, had, which was not quite our experience. We found the service to be less than our expectations ... especially in the MDR ... other passengers we sailed with voiced the same opinions. Maybe part of the problem here was the fact that we had open seating and not the same wait staff every night, but even so we should have received the same service. I can't help but feel that the automatic tipping sets the stage for less than stellar service. Where is the incentive to please when the tip is an automatic given, and one that can be removed at that?? Yes, some people will tip above the automatic charge ... but not everyone will. Just my honest opinion on the subject.

 

When traveling with Friends we usually request assigned seating, however in the past two years we've had open seating three times..I have to disagree with you that the auto tip sets the stage for less than stellar service..In two of the three times ,when we had open seating, we so enjoyed our Stewards the first night that we asked for the same table for the entire cruise..

Those MDR Stewards had no idea that we would ask for them for the entire cruise on our first night..Our Cabin Stewards also went out of their way in making our cruise something special...We rewarded both our Open seating Stewards & our Cabin Stewards with an extra tip, but we also mentioned their names on our comment cards..

On our last cruise on the Veendam to Bermuda a couple of weeks ago, I sent the Hotel Manager a separate note to thank him for being so kind to our Cruise Critic Group.. In that note I also mentioned both of our Main DR Stewards & both of our Cabin Stewards who also helped to make our cruise extra special..

Only once have we not given an extra tip at the end of our cruise to our Cabin Steward, & that was on a 26 day cruise...On that cruise we asked to have our Ice bucket filled twice a day, (A.M. & P.M.) & it was forgotten until I reminded him several times..Finally after the third time of asking, DH found the door to the Ice machine & filled the Ice bucket himself.. Also, when I requested additional hangars, it was like pulling teeth to get them..There were several other problems which did not make us very happy, so we decided for the first time not to give an extra tip.. We also did not mention his name on our comment cards, but did mention the Names of our MDR Stewards who went out of their way to be so cheerful & were especially wonderful.

Cheers....:)Betty

[TCF]

To be honest about the whole auto-tip system is really nothing more than a shell game played by the cruise lines...not just HAL....but all of them....and I for one find it an insult!

 

The cruise lines are paying low wages that cannot attract the type of committed crews they want. But, to compete in the mass market they won't increase fares to meet the realistic wage scales they know they should be paying. Their solution is to leave the wages and fares where they are, and add the auto-tip feature.....for our convenience we are told! But really it is to bring their wage scales up to reasonable levels!

 

They can attract workers....they can compete in the market with the lower fares.....and we get to pay the difference.

 

It would be much more ethical and honest for the cruise lines to increase the fares by...in HAL's case....$11 per passenger per day and make tipping discretionary based upon the service we get IF we believe that service warrants it!

 

The auto-tip system is left wide open to every kind of idiocy know to human kind. Of course it was the room steward's fault that Hurricane Earl resulted in the missing of three ports and they should be punished accordingly by having the auto-tip removed! By the same token if the itinerary hadn't been changed the auto-tip would have been removed because the MDR crew would be responsible for everyone puking in the halls as the ship bounced around like a cork!

 

Face it folks....there are some people who can't afford to cruise and expect their vacation to be subsidized by someone who spends months away from home and family just trying to put food on the table at home! Those people will always find a way not to pay the auto-tip and there is nothing the rest of us can do about it!

 

HAL should change it's policy to insure it is paying fair and reasonable wages....and....allowing those of us who believe in tipping for exceptional service to do just that....because we will!

 

Then we can stop this ridiculous debate once a month!!

[serendipity1499]

I think the open seating is a lot of the problem. Once lines went to open seating, it became too difficult for passengers to tip waitstaff. So the lines started the autotip/service charge policy. That way all waiters get tipped, even if they serve different people every night.

 

I've bolded the parts of your post which I'm commenting on..

 

This is not correct..HAL started charging the Hotel Service Charge many years before Open Seating...I have all of our final bills starting from 1996..The first time we had an Automatic Hotel Service Charge was on NCL in April of 2002..The first time we paid an Automatic Hotel Service Charge on HAL was on the Westerdam in Nov. 2004..

 

 

On another line, I can say that service definitely went downhill. But with your experience on HAL, I blame open seating.

 

Again not correct...Open seating went into effect on Hal three years later in 2007...

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=627832

 

The kitchen on a ship is set up in stations. Waiters who are working in the fixed dining area usually go to the kitchen for items from a single course. So they go to one station, such as salads, pick up a big bunch of them, and get back to the table quickly. It's easy to pace the meal well, and there is less hubub around the tables, which I find makes for a better dining experience.

 

When waiters work in the open seating area, they can have tables at many different courses. They have to make more trips to the kitchen and visit more stations in the kitchen. The pacing is harder to keep, too. A passenger can eat an appetizer in less time than a main course. So if one table is served appetizers and another is served main courses, one of those tables will need a trip to the kitchen before the other one does. This makes for more bustle around the dining room.

 

I think it's easier to work the fixed dining, and I wonder if a reward for being a good waiter is to be moved upstairs.

 

Agree it' might be easier to work in fixed, however the Stewards in Open Seating seem to be able to handle it like an land based Restaurant Waiter would..

 

No that is not the case, that the reward is being moved upstairs..We take the longer cruises & have had several back to backs..On all the ships we've been on in the past few years, waiters are changed from Fixed seating to Open Seating & Vice Versa at the end of each cruise... On our B2B, Panama Canal Round Trip San Diego cruise, the Waiters & Wine Stewards we had in our Fixed Seating went down to Open Seating & those in Open Seating came up to Fixed Seating, when we left from San Diego..We've since learned that it's the norm that the Waiter's change areas after each cruise..This is done on all HAL ships in order to keep their staff happy as those in Fixed usually get additional tips..

 

People who want fixed dining often say they choose it to get the same waiters every night. HAL probably things that these passengers value good table service, so they assign the best waiters to these passengers. That leaves the not-best (still good IMO, but not the best) downstairs in open seating. These are also probably the less experienced waiters.

 

Not so, as you can see from my previous post, we've had wonderful Stewards in Open Seating on two out of the three times we chose to book Open Seating..We enjoyed our Stewards so much, that we requested their table every night & rewarded them at the end of the cruise..Both times they had been with HAL many years..

The first time we took Open Seating we took our chances & did not make reservations ..That was because it was Alaska & Port intensive..We had many long days of sightseeing & did not want to make advance reservations, but we still had good service for the most part in the Open Seating..

Cheers....:)Betty

[bonafidebeachbum]

Is not a tip a gratuity?

 

Definition of GRATUITY

: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service

gra·tu·i·ty n. pl. gra·tu·i·ties A favor or gift, usually in the form of money, given in return for service.

 

I and my husband have always tipped generously for a job well done in all circumstances. We also handed out cash tips to individual crew members on our cruise over and beyond the automatic daily charged tip, ( which we would never have considered removing from our bill) because we felt they deserved more than their portion of the automatic charge for the service they performed. However I feel the service we felt was less than stellar on our cruise was due to lack of incentive as a direct result of automatic tipping. We didn't have a choice of fixed dining on our first cruise ... all that was available when we booked was open. We chose open dining for our upcoming second cruise because we enjoyed the flexability and like the opportunity to dine with different passengers. I just believe that if open dining is an option available then all one should expect the same level of service whether the option is by choice or not. The fare is the same either way. One does not pay more for their fare if they dine fixed or open. Perhaps waitstaff, at least in the MDR, should be tipped individually and after the service rendered instead of an automatic daily charge to be divvied up at the end of the cruise. And with so many different crew members covering the open dining ... I think we only had the same waiter twice once on our 7 day cruise .... I would have to carry a notepad to make notes and write down names if I wanted to contact the front desk, or customer service, to complain about less than satisfactory service from an individual waiter, and who wants to do that?

[navybankerteacher]

To be honest about the whole auto-tip system is really nothing more than a shell game played by the cruise lines...not just HAL....but all of them....and I for one find it an insult!

 

The cruise lines are paying low wages that cannot attract the type of committed crews they want. But, to compete in the mass market they won't increase fares to meet the realistic wage scales they know they should be paying. Their solution is to leave the wages and fares where they are, and add the auto-tip feature.....for our convenience we are told! But really it is to bring their wage scales up to reasonable levels!

 

They can attract workers....they can compete in the market with the lower fares.....and we get to pay the difference.

 

It would be much more ethical and honest for the cruise lines to increase the fares by...in HAL's case....$11 per passenger per day and make tipping discretionary based upon the service we get IF we believe that service warrants it!

 

The auto-tip system is left wide open to every kind of idiocy know to human kind. Of course it was the room steward's fault that Hurricane Earl resulted in the missing of three ports and they should be punished accordingly by having the auto-tip removed! By the same token if the itinerary hadn't been changed the auto-tip would have been removed because the MDR crew would be responsible for everyone puking in the halls as the ship bounced around like a cork!

 

Face it folks....there are some people who can't afford to cruise and expect their vacation to be subsidized by someone who spends months away from home and family just trying to put food on the table at home! Those people will always find a way not to pay the auto-tip and there is nothing the rest of us can do about it!

 

HAL should change it's policy to insure it is paying fair and reasonable wages....and....allowing those of us who believe in tipping for exceptional service to do just that....because we will!

 

Then we can stop this ridiculous debate once a month!!

 

Then do not take part in the debate - or just sail on lines whose policies please you, if it is so upsetting to you. Let the people running the business make the business decisions - and let the people working on the ships decide whether to take the jobs

[serendipity1499]

Is not a tip a gratuity?

 

Definition of GRATUITY

: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service

gra·tu·i·ty n. pl. gra·tu·i·ties A favor or gift, usually in the form of money, given in return for service.

 

<SNIP>

 

The $11.00 per day is not a Tip or a Gratuity..It is a "Hotel Service Charge"..

I'm retired from the travel business & have been fortunate to have traveled in many places throughout the World...We paid "Hotel Service Charges" in most of the Hotels, & Resorts we've stayed in more than 30 years ago...We've also paid Service Charges which have been added to our bills in many Restaurants throughout the World...

The Sanibel Harbor Resort, charges an 18% Hotel Service charge on Rooms, dockage, restaurant & equipment rentals.. All resorts we've ever stayed in had this charge..Do you know what is done with those Service Charges? It's used to augment the salary of those who serve you..

For some reason people do not seem complain as much when this is added to their Hotel, Resort or Restaurant bills, but when a Cruise Line does it..:eek::eek: OMG...Now It's considered a "Shell game" :rolleyes: I don't understand this at all..:confused:

IMO the Hotel Service Charge & the 15% added to Bar Bills is a good thing, as many people on HAL before this was instituted never tipped at all..When we have stellar service, we give those who have made our Cruise extra special a little lagniappe at the end..

 

 

Perhaps waitstaff, at least in the MDR, should be tipped individually and after the service rendered instead of an automatic daily charge to be divvied up at the end of the cruise. And with so many different crew members covering the open dining ... I think we only had the same waiter twice once on our 7 day cruise ....

 

Some of those who have Open Dining do leave a tip at the end of every meal, especially if they've had extra special service..You can do that too..

 

I would have to carry a notepad to make notes and write down names if I wanted to contact the front desk, or customer service, to complain about less than satisfactory service from an individual waiter, and who wants to do that?

 

I would, if I did not have good service & I should have in the case of the very poor cabin Steward...Complaining to the front desk however does no good at all...If you have any kind of a problem or poor service in the Main Dining Room, you should immediately complain to the Head Waiter, who is at the front desk in the Main Dining Room & is assigning tables...He knows exactly who your waiter is, since he knows which table you sat at by your cabin number..That is what he is there for...He is responsible & will either correct the problem or discuss it with the Waiters in that section to find out what the problem was or is..

Complaints about cabin Stewards should be directed to the Head Housekeeper..

If you continue to have un=satisfactory service, you can escalate it up the Line, to the Hotel Manager..

Cheers....:)Betty

[jtl513]

Is not a tip a gratuity?

Yes, and the Hotel Service Charge is neither.

[fridayeyes]

Personally, I'd like to see the HSC become part of the cruise fare, too - and then folks could tip on top of that if they felt so moved.

[jtl513]

Personally, I'd like to see the HSC become part of the cruise fare, too ...

Then TAs would get about 10% of it - approximately $23,000 per day, $8.4 million per year - instead of the crews.

 

All that needs to be done is make the HSC NON-removable. It then becomes a fixed part of the fare without the TAs getting any of it in commissions.

[Hlitner]

The real problem is the entire concept of tipping, which just does not work well given the latest changes in cruising. The answer is simple, just do away with tips (like most of the luxury lines), charge a little more money and pay the crew a fair wage.

 

Hank