Is it time to change the policy on auto tipping?

[jtl513]

The real problem is the entire concept of tipping, which just does not work well given the latest changes in cruising. The answer is simple, just do away with tips (like most of the luxury lines), charge a little more money and pay the crew a fair wage.

 

Hank

See my post before yours.

[mechcc]

If the tip, HSC, or whatever were added to the cruise fare wouldn't that cause the taxes to increase? And wouldn't the fare increase even more to cover the extra commission that TA's would get?

 

Personnally, I would like to see the system changed to where a person would have to have valid complaints that were investigated prior to being allowed to have tips removed. And then only the portion of the tip for the complaint area would be removed. So if you had a cabin stewart that you had to complain repeatedly that they hadn't cleaned your cabin, then you could remove that portion of the tip. But only if the head housekeeper and the Hotel Manager verified your complaint. That would ensure that the tips were removed for a valid reason and would also have poor service brought to the immediate attention of those in charge.

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

There are non commisionable parts to what we pay for our crusing : port taxes and possibly transfers and insurance. If hotel service charge was considered non commisionable as are port taxes then, wouldn't all of it go to thr crew? Just asking?

[bcd2010]

...make the HSC NON-removable. It then becomes a fixed part of the fare without the TAs getting any of it in commissions.

 

And it could be treated like other add-ons: you have the base price of the cruise plus government taxes, port fees and HSC, etc. Then HAL could go back to No Tipping Required so we could still tip for what we felt was "above and beyond" service as we wish or not tip additional without all the angst. But then I'd want CD/whoever to never mention tipping (they used to "suggest" what would be "appropriate").

 

It needs to be called what it is, a Service Charge, not a Tip or Auto-tip.

[HeatherInFlorida]

The auto-tipping is a pet peeve of mine because it means we end up tipping far beyond what we want to. We leave the auto tips in place because I just don't feel right adjusting them. But on top of that of course we almost always want to give extra to our cabin steward and DR stewards because we don't feel the amount set aside for them in the auto tips is anywhere near sufficient for the services rendered.

 

I would prefer they just increase the cruise fare to include the amount of the auto-tips and pay their employees more generously. That way I wouldn't know about it ... silly, I know, because it all comes out the same but psychologically I'd feel better about it. I don't want to tip any persons I don't see the entire cruise. I want to tip those we believe have genuinely given us an added service.

 

The whole idea of a gratuity is to reward a person for a job well done, for going above and beyond what is expected.

 

....................... They were people on cell phones in the lobby trying to arrange taxis and tours in Boston as apparently HAL had no arrangements. ..................

 

I know this is off topic, but this observation confused me about the recent abbreviated Maasdam cruise. Another poster on the cruise wrote that HAL was so helpful in making arrangements ... that the taxis were lined up at the pier with trunks open ready to go!

[sail7seas]

I know this is off topic, but this observation confused me about the recent abbreviated Maasdam cruise. Another poster on the cruise wrote that HAL was so helpful in making arrangements ... that the taxis were lined up at the pier with trunks open ready to go!

__________________

 

Heather (a.k.a. "Chopped Pate' ") ~~~

 

 

 

 

:rolleyes: The 'other poster' is me.

 

If you re-read, you will note Jade left the ship Friday morning.

My description of taxi trunks open pertained to Thursday night when we left the ship.

 

I would have no idea what happened Friday as we were long home by then.

 

Not at all sure what any of that has to do with an auto- tipping thread, however, this is where it has been posted so it is here I respond.

 

 

[JLC@SD]

I believe it's time Seattle established a new policy.

 

On embarkation, each passenger is handed a simple 1, 2 or 3 paragraph letter from HAL explaining the company's automatic tipping policy; then comes a simple sentence in BOLD TYPE: the passenger has the option of removing the auto tip from his/her account for a period of 72 hours or 3 days from sailing; after that, the option is no longer available.

 

IMHO, what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

my thoughts, are simply

 

I would change it to ....you can remove future days....but not past days.

 

I think it is despicable that people accept the service the entire cruise and ........then jerk the tips the last day.

[sail7seas]

my thoughts, are simply

 

I would change it to ....you can remove future days....but not past days.

 

I think it is despicable that people accept the service the entire cruise and ........then jerk the tips the last day.

 

 

That's a very interesting idea....... Actually, I really like it. If they are going to permit removal of service charge, that is one way to limit the abuse.

[Typhoon1]

I wouldn't change a thing.

[bergjd]

A tip should be given for good service received, not in anticipation of someone doing their job. The auto payment of tips on the shipboard account was orginally said to be for the passenger's convenience so they would not have to worry about bringing cash on board to pay the tips. Originally, you could decide the amount of tip. Then, the cruise lines started to automatically post to your account their suggested tips to the basic 5 recipients. Now you are tipping the entire crew.

 

For those who think this fee should be automatically added to your cruise fare be aware of what you are asking for. Once this tip (already being called a Hotel Service Charge) is traditionally added, you will then be given guidance on each cruise on how much you should tip for extraordinary service. And so the circle of life continues......

 

If you are tipping for good service, then it's a personal decision, and no one should have an opinion on what you tip those who serve you, and what you consider excellent service. On a personal note, if I have to complain to the front desk or a supervisor to get the service I have paid for in my basic cruise fare, exactly what am I tipping extra for?

 

Now, do I tip? Absolutely. Having sailed on over 30 cruises I have never tipped less than the suggested amount, more when appropriate. It's not my business what someone else tips in a restaurant, why should I care what someone else tips on a cruise?

[Brewgirl1]

They need a Union so they can get paid what they deserve for all the hours and jobs they work!! Then the tips they earn are above and beyond!!

[JeffCoud]

I think the deadbeats who removed the tips were looking for any reason to be their cheap selves at the expense of hardworking people doing their jobs so well with every ounce of extra effort they possessed.

 

Sad but true I'm afraid...

[JeffCoud]

 

If there is a pattern of guests removing HSC from their accounts for the same dining or cabin steward cruise after cruise, I would think that is recognized. Guests need to provide a reason for removing the tips. If the same names are mentioned as not providing good service, their job security might be in question.... and additional tips will be scarce.

 

A feedback mechanism of this sort already exists....the comment cards. They do read and quantify them weekly and they know which wait staff are a problem. Most passengers are not gonna weasel on the tips, but comment cards provide a much higher % of respondents and hence a more reliable feedback mechanism.

 

Jeff

[mechcc]

They need a Union so they can get paid what they deserve for all the hours and jobs they work!! Then the tips they earn are ab ove and beyond!!

 

Be careful for what you wish for.

[room010]

There are always tightwads out there looking for ANY excuse to shave a few lousy bucks off the bill and too bad if it means the underpaid front-line staff (which is why tipping is necessary in the first place) are the people who suffer. The wrong people are being "punished".

 

Coming as I do from a culture where tipping is a discretionary reward for good service rather than an expectation I admit I find the whole concept of automatic tips slightly puzzling but I accept that it's standard practice on cruise ships so I'm happy to comply. There are other ways to register one's dissatisfaction, eg, next time book with a different company.

[jtl513]

It needs to be called what it is, a Service Charge, not a Tip or Auto-tip.

HAL DOES call it a Hotel Service Charge, and has for several years. It is only on cruise forums that people persist on calling it and considering it a tip! :rolleyes:

 

I would change it to ....you can remove future days....but not past days.

That's no good either, because you could well end up paying for bad past service and, if the problems are corrected, not paying for good service.

 

Since the HSC is added to our accounts on a daily basis, I propose the removal could be allowed only on a daily basis: you would have 24 hours to remove the previous day's charge for bad service, and after that it sticks. That would make it a nuisance for the just-plain-cheapskates to have to go down to the front desk and wait in line every day, but still allow a means to not pay for bad service when it is true. Further, it would allow "instant" feedback to be given to housekeeping and dining supervisors of a persistant problem rather than not learning about it until it too late to correct.

 

Anybody else like that idea?

[Taxguy77]

You certainly may be right about the effect of the autotip on service quality. My thought, however, is that it may have more to do with fewer staff to do the work. In terms of sheer numbers, staffing levels have remained the same. Their distribution, however, has not.

 

Translation: stewards have more cabins and waiters have more tables.

 

Source: observation (and I have run a front-of-house), staff and officer comments, posts here, including some by HAL employees

 

Example: During Code Reds, there are more crew members working in the Lido. They had to come from somewhere, right? In many cases, they were shifted from positions in the MDR or the Pinnacle.

 

You may be right, and this is certainly part of the problem we who cruised years ago see today. On the other hand, I still remember what we were told on our first cruise, "The gratuity was added in to the cruise fare for a while, but pax complaints increased noticeably."

On our 2nd cruise, a 2 week, we took the money we had brought for the suggested tips, reallocated some from some who had not given us any service to those who were outstanding, and ended up tipping a little more than the suggested amount.

Now you just get a bill which, hopefully, you added in with the other costs before you booked the cruise. :p:D (final bill) :eek:

[AFuncruiser]

I consider the automatic withdraw of a service charge (tips) subsidizing slave wages.

Having said that I always pay the slave wage charges and most always tip generously over and above.

Dennis

Jacksonville, Fl

 

 

409 days at sea

34 cruises

11 cruise lines

T/P, T/A, Hawaii, Central & South America, New Zealand & South Pacific

Booked

12 day TA Norwegian Sun Oct 2010

8 day Norwegian Sun Oct 2010

28 day HAL Rio/Amazon river/ Ft. Lauderdale March 2011

[Randyk47]

I wonder how well the "no tipping" business works on the few luxury lines that advertise that. For instance, we got some very interesting mailings from Seaborne, which we'd not considered before because of cost, and looked at a few of their itineraries. In researching I noticed the "no tipping expected or required" statement. I won't name them but I know there are at least a couple of HAL CC'ers who cruise with Seaborne so I wonder how it works for them. I've heard that the service on Seaborne is generally exceptional. I do remember when HAL more or less advertised it was a "no tipping expected or required" line and in fact when out TA booked us on our very first HAL cruise back in the early 90's she made an issue of that. I remember thinking at the time that's pretty cool and was a bit embarrassed when I noticed a lot of people tipping at the end of that cruise. Same on Seaborne? Any of you out there care to comment?

[navybankerteacher]

They need a Union so they can get paid what they deserve for all the hours and jobs they work!! Then the tips they earn are above and beyond!!

 

 

Incentive based compensation seems to work for US based passengers -see high level of satisfaction with service on HAL ships - and HAL's obvious ability to hire and retain staff; while union labor on US cruise lines seems not to work - see NCL's experience with US-flagged ships based in Hawaii.

 

Is it really necessary to change a system which does work? Why not let the line (which is in the business of running the business) run the business, and let the staff (who are not conscripted) work where and as they choose?

[catl331]

IIRC BruceMuzz has said they do have unions and negotiated contracts.

 

EDIT: here's a post:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=24366297

[m steve]

when booking could alleviate all the concern. It would not be commisionable to the TA and the staff would get it. Every cruise line I have sailed has it and not as many complaints as I have read here. When you are paying $100 a day for a balcony cabin on HAL $10 extra is not a big deal. When you pay $500 on Seabourne, the crew are paid more and the tip isn't necessary nor expected as the brochures say. When I can afford to cruise at $500 a day, I wouldn't worry about a tip. Then I could use all my OBCs for drinks and DF purchases.

[HeatherInFlorida]

:rolleyes: The 'other poster' is me.

 

If you re-read, you will note Jade left the ship Friday morning.

My description of taxi trunks open pertained to Thursday night when we left the ship.

 

I would have no idea what happened Friday as we were long home by then.

 

Not at all sure what any of that has to do with an auto- tipping thread, however, this is where it has been posted so it is here I respond.

 

 

 

For some reason I couldn't recall who posted that and didn't have time to go back to check.

 

Seems to me, though, that the line of taxis would have been more helpful Friday morning when more passengers needed a way out of there. You said yourself that relatively few left the ship Thursday night. So if they were able to get a parade in there Thursday night, why not help the passengers in the morning as well?

 

Judy ... Jade posted her experience on this thread so I responded on this thread because it stood out for me. You had no problem with her post, only with me responding to her;).

 

Let's be fair. Jade mentioned she was off topic and I mentioned it in my response. It happens all the time; no biggie.

 

If you were to read my entire post you would see that most of it was very much on topic.

[Stevesan]

I wonder how well the "no tipping" business works on the few luxury lines that advertise that. For instance, we got some very interesting mailings from Seaborne, which we'd not considered before because of cost, and looked at a few of their itineraries. In researching I noticed the "no tipping expected or required" statement. I won't name them but I know there are at least a couple of HAL CC'ers who cruise with Seaborne so I wonder how it works for them. I've heard that the service on Seaborne is generally exceptional. I do remember when HAL more or less advertised it was a "no tipping expected or required" line and in fact when out TA booked us on our very first HAL cruise back in the early 90's she made an issue of that. I remember thinking at the time that's pretty cool and was a bit embarrassed when I noticed a lot of people tipping at the end of that cruise. Same on Seaborne? Any of you out there care to comment?

 

I, too, remember that. I also remember the large number of empty chairs in the MDR on the last night.

HAL had good cause to implement an automatic hotel charge.

[sail7seas]

They need a Union so they can get paid what they deserve for all the hours and jobs they work!! Then the tips they earn are above and beyond!!

 

Be careful for what you wish for.

 

IIRC BruceMuzz has said they do have unions and negotiated contracts.

 

EDIT: here's a post:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=24366297

 

It has always been my understanding stewards do have unions.

 

It is also my understanding HAL provides monthly mninimum pay guarantee from combination salary and tips.