Alcohol based sanitizer in efficacious

[jackdiamond]

The above title says it all. Just use soap and water for the potential control of norovirus.

[Fblack]

I saw Doctor R. on TV today too. I may be wrong, but I think he said it even makes it worse if you use alcohol based hand cleaners.

 

" February 23, 2011 (San Antonio, Texas) — Use of alcohol-based hand sanitizer (ABHS) in place of soap and water in nursing homes represents one of the greatest institutional risk factors for the spread of noroviruses and can lead to outbreaks of acute gastroenteritis... "

 

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/737884

[City_Woman]

I agree that using soap and water is #1.

 

However, I also believe that use of hand sanitizer is a great #2 after I've touched railings, elevator buttons, door handles, etc.

 

And, just imagine the number of people that don't wash their hands adequately. Thank goodness hand sanitizer is available to them!

[cpj]

would someone explain to me what do you do when the virus gets into the food and water. Acording to CDC in Atlanta it can get into the food and water. Thats why I think it takes a couple of sailings to get rid of it. Does Celebrity dump the food. Sure washing your hands with soap and water is great but if its in the food and water I quess you just dont eat or drink. Also most of the crew are from third world countries an just do not have good sanitation practices. Celebrity cant monitor them 24 hours a day and there the ones that handle the food

[hcat]

I saw the same show with Dr R...... we are not going to be using that stuff they dump on you when entering the dining room-- mostly we follow the handwash habit & try not to touch door handles etc...

 

Hope they get through this on the ships--luckily we had no problems when we cruised on on Equinox in January; but is always a risk!

[Booyakasha]

I agree that using soap and water is #1.

 

However, I also believe that use of hand sanitizer is a great #2 after I've touched railings, elevator buttons, door handles, etc.

 

And, just imagine the number of people that don't wash their hands adequately. Thank goodness hand sanitizer is available to them!

 

You are correct. Certainly washing your hands with soap and running water is the best method. However the hand sanitizer does show benefits. Telling people not to use it is irresponsible unless you know more than the Center for Disease Control.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/

 

Also I have no idea what the title of this thread means.

 

B.

[City_Woman]

You are correct. Certainly washing your hands with soap and running water is the best method. However the hand sanitizer does show benefits. Telling people not to use it is irresponsible unless you know more than the Center for Disease Control.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/

 

Also I have no idea what the title of this thread means.

 

B.

 

Excellent link. Thanks for posting.

 

Judy

[Fblack]

"inefficacious" means it does not work as intended. Ineffective.

[Booyakasha]

Thanks but the title says in efficacious. That could also be taken as a typo for is efficacious vs a typo of inefficacious.... point being if you are going to say the above title says it all.... typos don't help. Plus the fact it is an incomplete and potentially incorrect statement that without further explanation means nothing.

 

Other than that it says it all.

 

B.

[Denny01]

would someone explain to me what do you do when the virus gets into the food and water. Acording to CDC in Atlanta it can get into the food and water. Thats why I think it takes a couple of sailings to get rid of it. Does Celebrity dump the food. Sure washing your hands with soap and water is great but if its in the food and water I quess you just dont eat or drink. Also most of the crew are from third world countries an just do not have good sanitation practices. Celebrity cant monitor them 24 hours a day and there the ones that handle the food

Those '3rd world' crew are trained and trained again on sanitization and from my observance are more sanitary then most of the '1st World' passengers. they are exposed more due to more contact with us and are aboard extended time 'exposed' to all the viruses and germs left behind by Us but their contagious rates are much lower - they are younger, healthier and more sanitary then us, although they are '3rd World' types.

 

As to food and water, germs and viruses are in your food and water, just as they are in your food, water, hands, clothing, tables, cars,....etc. There are more of 'them' on and 'in' us then there are of us (our cells).

 

Almost every cruise has someone come down with a GI Illness. See this site:

 

http://www.cruisinghealthy.com/

 

It gives good info on outbreaks and and exposures based on CDC data. Basically, its telling us the Norovirus and other GI Illness viruses/bacteria impact most cruises, usually in the ones and twos, but its there.

 

Your biggest concern is the '1st World' passenger standing next to you, but if you are so worried about the unsanitary '3rd World' crew and the water, don't cruise.

 

Den

[floridatravelersforlife]

Clinically in a lab the doctors are correct. But how do you prevent contagion from reading the MDR menu (handling a very germ ridden book) and then grabbing some breadafterwards? right to your mouth go the germs.

 

The hand sanitizers are a last defense against that onslaught.

 

The same with the serving spoons and ladles on the buffet line. Serve yourself as others have with the same utensils. Again the sanitizer at the table will help.

 

There was a very good reason butlers wore gloves to serve their upper class masters in the old days. to prevent germ contamination of the food and tableware:eek:

[cpj]

Those '3rd world' crew are trained and trained again on sanitization and from my observance are more sanitary then most of the '1st World' passengers. they are exposed more due to more contact with us and are aboard extended time 'exposed' to all the viruses and germs left behind by Us but their contagious rates are much lower - they are younger, healthier and more sanitary then us, although they are '3rd World' types.

 

As to food and water, germs and viruses are in your food and water, just as they are in your food, water, hands, clothing, tables, cars,....etc. There are more of 'them' on and 'in' us then there are of us (our cells).

 

Almost every cruise has someone come down with a GI Illness. See this site:

 

http://www.cruisinghealthy.com/

 

It gives good info on outbreaks and and exposures based on CDC data. Basically, its telling us the Norovirus and other GI Illness viruses/bacteria impact most cruises, usually in the ones and twos, but its there.

 

Your biggest concern is the '1st World' passenger standing next to you, but if you are so worried about the unsanitary '3rd World' crew and the water, don't cruise.

 

Den

I hope your correct in there training but Im sure there are some very unsanitary crew members as there are passengers. Your right I probably should not cruise after getting sick for 2 days on my last cruise.

[bighairtexan]

Honestly, the sanitary standards on ships so far outweighs that of any on land hotel or restaurant, and the training on ships so far surpasses the training of land based operations, that I feel safer eating on a ship than anywhere else. As for "3rd world" crew, have you seen the "crew" in restaurant kitchens?

 

Also, as for the title, I too thought is was a typo for IS efficacious rather than a typo for INEFFICACIOUS. But you can't edit the titles on threads.

[Denny01]

I hope your correct in there training but Im sure there are some very unsanitary crew members as there are passengers. Your right I probably should not cruise after getting sick for 2 days on my last cruise.

Don't want to get into a back and forth and appear to be making light of your concern, especially since you were ill for 2 days, I realize it is a major issue for you, but....you'll have the same issues on any vacation involving a popular place with lots of people. We just don't read about all the illnesses people come down with from visiting Disney World and so on. They don't keep records since there isn't a 'captive customer' set up. We get exposed, ingest the virus, leave and 2 days later, come down with the symptoms - at home. And we don't equate it to the vacation, but the last place we visited, such as some restaurant or workplace. Life living with Billions of people.

 

So unless you have a situation of a low immune system, crusing and illness exposure is a normal part of life we face anywhere else, its just not advertised and there aren't these forums for all the other venues to share and discuss, and there isn't the CDC data for us to see.

 

Your call on cruising again. the Big trouble is, it isn't 'fun' being sick (especially GI Illness sick!) when you can't just go home and be away from the world.

 

Den

[jaybird from SC]

For us hand washing is always number one but there's no way we're going to stop using hand sanitizers especially if that's all you have at the time.

[We're The Groupnors]

would someone explain to me what do you do when the virus gets into the food and water. Acording to CDC in Atlanta it can get into the food and water. Thats why I think it takes a couple of sailings to get rid of it. Does Celebrity dump the food. Sure washing your hands with soap and water is great but if its in the food and water I quess you just dont eat or drink. Also most of the crew are from third world countries an just do not have good sanitation practices. Celebrity cant monitor them 24 hours a day and there the ones that handle the food

 

While many of the employees on board cruise ships are from emerging nations (what you call third world countries) that doesn't mean the ship is run like an emerging nation. I suspect the spread of noro has more to do with the passengers than the staff, as evidenced by the comparitively minimal number of staff that contract it during an outbreak, versus the number of passengers that do. Case in point: on the Solstice in mid-Feb 2011 I watched an elderly woman walk out of a washroom stall and straight out the door without washing her hands. I was right behind her, so I then saw her breeze right past the person with the hand sanitizer at the entrance to the buffet. About five minutes later she pushed in front of me in the pizza line and stuck her hand into the bowl of garlic bread without using the tongs. She was white, and told me she was from New York. Good sanitary practices depend on the person, not where they're from.

[fussylady]

I plan to use every means possible to minimize my risks....handwashing, hand-sanitizer, being careful what I touch, etc. But one of my concerns is that the hand sanitizers I am familiar with are labelled "anti-bacterial". And norovirus is just that....a virus.

 

I've read about norovirus mostly associated with Caribbean cruises. Does anyone know if this is also a threat on European/Mediterranean cruises?

 

Thanks.

[Onessa]

Thanks but the title says in efficacious. That could also be taken as a typo for is efficacious vs a typo of inefficacious.... point being if you are going to say the above title says it all.... typos don't help. ,. . . quote]

 

I was wondering the same thing "in efficacious" made no sense.

 

The alcohol-based hand sanitizers can be effective if they contain enough alcohol and if they are used correctly. Similarly "washing your hands" could be argued to be inefficaious if you do not wash correctly -- if you do not wash long enough or between fingers and around the nail beds, you can end up with a lot of germs left. Also, simply touching a door handle, or stair rail, or the back of a chair after washing can "re"germ you.

[phoenix_dream]

I plan to use every means possible to minimize my risks....handwashing, hand-sanitizer, being careful what I touch, etc. But one of my concerns is that the hand sanitizers I am familiar with are labelled "anti-bacterial". And norovirus is just that....a virus.

 

I've read about norovirus mostly associated with Caribbean cruises. Does anyone know if this is also a threat on European/Mediterranean cruises?

 

Thanks.

norovirus is no more or less than what most call the 'stomach flu'. As such it is a 'threat' everywhere you go - any cruise, any cruiseline, any country. It is just as prevalent in hospitals, nursing homes, schools, restaurants, etc.. The main difference is that cruise ships are required to report it when cases hit above a certain percentage of passengers (exact number of which escapes me but it is not very high). Anywhere there are large groups of people gathering, there is a risk of viruses like these spreading rapidly.

[phoenix_dream]

While many of the employees on board cruise ships are from emerging nations (what you call third world countries) that doesn't mean the ship is run like an emerging nation. I suspect the spread of noro has more to do with the passengers than the staff' date=' as evidenced by the comparitively minimal number of staff that contract it during an outbreak, versus the number of passengers that do. Case in point: on the Solstice in mid-Feb 2011 I watched an elderly woman walk out of a washroom stall and straight out the door without washing her hands. I was right behind her, so I then saw her breeze right past the person with the hand sanitizer at the entrance to the buffet. About five minutes later she pushed in front of me in the pizza line and stuck her hand into the bowl of garlic bread without using the tongs. She was white, and told me she was from New York. Good sanitary practices depend on the person, not where they're from.[/quote']

I agree with everything you say, except for one point. I question the actual numbers of staff who are reported to get sick. It is my belief (shared by many) that alot of staff members do not report their illness unless it is extreme and they absolutely can't work. I think they are concerned about tips, and about their employment, and will try to work whether they are sick or not. Unfortunately this helps spread the virus along. I am not without sympathy for their situation, as I know how hard they work and how little they are paid. But nevertheless I believe this happens, and that it is an unfortunate contributor.

[jackdiamond]

Honestly, the sanitary standards on ships so far outweighs that of any on land hotel or restaurant, and the training on ships so far surpasses the training of land based operations, that I feel safer eating on a ship than anywhere else. As for "3rd world" crew, have you seen the "crew" in restaurant kitchens?

 

Also, as for the title, I too thought is was a typo for IS efficacious rather than a typo for INEFFICACIOUS. But you can't edit the titles on threads.

I believe that you are correct. The meaning was simply "inefficacious". I was unable to edit the title.

[Italy52]

I plan to use every means possible to minimize my risks....handwashing, hand-sanitizer, being careful what I touch, etc. But one of my concerns is that the hand sanitizers I am familiar with are labelled "anti-bacterial". And norovirus is just that....a virus.

 

I've read about norovirus mostly associated with Caribbean cruises. Does anyone know if this is also a threat on European/Mediterranean cruises?

 

Thanks.

 

Alaska cruises have also reported Norovirus.

[brfan]

I agree with everything you say, except for one point. I question the actual numbers of staff who are reported to get sick. It is my belief (shared by many) that alot of staff members do not report their illness unless it is extreme and they absolutely can't work. I think they are concerned about tips, and about their employment, and will try to work whether they are sick or not. Unfortunately this helps spread the virus along. I am not without sympathy for their situation, as I know how hard they work and how little they are paid. But nevertheless I believe this happens, and that it is an unfortunate contributor.

 

It also wouldn't surprise me that there are supervisors/managers that view a crew member that reports he/she is sick as being a slacker and would likely be punished (eg. extra work or not being asked back after their contract is up). Let's face it when there is an oubreak of Noro, they need all hands on deck to work and clean. It's not like they can call Miami and have replacements sent to them. Hopefully those with that style of management are few and far between.

[fussylady]

Hi, Phoenix Dream: Thanks for your reply about "stomach flu". But my REAlly big concern is not to have my vacation ruined by whatever name you want to call it !!!

[2SeaWithMe]

I'm normally "anti" anything anti-bacterial. But on the ship I use it dozens of times a day, as well as extreme hand washing.

 

Now for the second time within 10 days of a cruise, I came down with a real bad flu/sinus infection/bronchitis bug.

 

My doctor doesn't think I'm picking anything up, but rather stopping the antibacterial weakens my immune system because I'm killing all of my good bacteria...than go back out into the world without a net, so to speak.

 

 

As far as staff replacements, when I was in the infirmary another patient asked how many crew were onboard, and she gave the number, than laughed and said, "Well, give or take 20. We're putting off and taking on after every cruise we're at the home port."