Evidence of citizenship requirement changes question

[MadOx75]

So the State Department decided that as of April 1, the "regular" birth certificate that I've had and used my entire life as proof of citizenship is not good enough to get a passport. Its a Department of Vital Statistics birth cert. with a raised seal, but it doesn't list my parents name. Apparently this is only listed on the long form. Since I procrastinated on going for my passport, there isn't enough time for me to get the long form certificate from the State of NJ. Does anyone know if this "regular" birth certificate is going to be good enough, combined with my state issued DL, to board the ship and get off at the ports and disembark? I'm traveling closed loop from NYC to Grand Turk, Half Moon Cay and Nassau.

[GrannyReadyToCruise]

Yes, as a passport agent, I can tell you that the short form certified birth certificate is still valid for closed loop cruises. The long form is only necessary to apply for a passport. Hope this helps! Have a great trip!

[MadOx75]

Yes, as a passport agent, I can tell you that the short form certified birth certificate is still valid for closed loop cruises. The long form is only necessary to apply for a passport. Hope this helps! Have a great trip!

 

Thanks so much for the quick and concise response. :D

[Dayenu]

You sound like Barack Obama :D

[BruceMuzz]

So the State Department decided that as of April 1, the "regular" birth certificate that I've had and used my entire life as proof of citizenship is not good enough to get a passport. Its a Department of Vital Statistics birth cert. with a raised seal, but it doesn't list my parents name. Apparently this is only listed on the long form. Since I procrastinated on going for my passport, there isn't enough time for me to get the long form certificate from the State of NJ. Does anyone know if this "regular" birth certificate is going to be good enough, combined with my state issued DL, to board the ship and get off at the ports and disembark? I'm traveling closed loop from NYC to Grand Turk, Half Moon Cay and Nassau.

 

It's shocking that in this day and age, the US Government allows this sort of thing to continue.

I can go over to Kinko's and produce an "official" birth certificate - that looks more official than yours - in about an hour.

That certificate would be accepted for travel into and out of the USA with no question.

If the terrorists ever find somebody with computer skills, the USA is going to be in far more trouble than it is already.

[pms4104]

It's shocking that in this day and age, the US Government allows this sort of thing to continue.

I can go over to Kinko's and produce an "official" birth certificate - that looks more official than yours - in about an hour.

That certificate would be accepted for travel into and out of the USA with no question.

If the terrorists ever find somebody with computer skills, the USA is going to be in far more trouble than it is already.

Indeed, if we as a nation truly are serious about securing our borders and controlling who enters the country, the Feds need to revise the WHTI to mandate a passport for everyone arriving from any and all countries.

 

I have long believed that the loophole permitting BC and DL for some travel was a concession to the travel industry who likely claimed people would not travel if they had to choke up $$$ for a passport. Misguided perhaps ... but it appeased a segment of the population.

[msbask]

It's shocking that in this day and age, the US Government allows this sort of thing to continue.

I can go over to Kinko's and produce an "official" birth certificate - that looks more official than yours - in about an hour.

That certificate would be accepted for travel into and out of the USA with no question.

If the terrorists ever find somebody with computer skills, the USA is going to be in far more trouble than it is already.

 

You do realize that none of the 9/11 terrorists had to do any of that, and that none of them were here with fake birth certificates and drivers licenses?

[KirkNC]

You sound like Barack Obama :D

 

I was thinking the same thing.

 

Kirk

[PrincessE]

Indeed, if we as a nation truly are serious about securing our borders and controlling who enters the country, the Feds need to revise the WHTI to mandate a passport for everyone arriving from any and all countries.

 

I have long believed that the loophole permitting BC and DL for some travel was a concession to the travel industry who likely claimed people would not travel if they had to choke up $$$ for a passport. Misguided perhaps ... but it appeased a segment of the population.

 

I sure hope they don't do away with allowing BC and DL for closed loop cruises. I have a passport, but my husband does not. He isn't permitted to have a passport. Without the BC and DL acceptance on closed loop voyages we would be missing out on cruising, which for us would be very sad.

 

It's not just about those who don't want to fork over the money for a passport. There are a lot of people out there who cannot for one reason or another have a passport.

[6rugrats]

I sure hope they don't do away with allowing BC and DL for closed loop cruises. I have a passport, but my husband does not. He isn't permitted to have a passport. Without the BC and DL acceptance on closed loop voyages we would be missing out on cruising, which for us would be very sad.

 

It's not just about those who don't want to fork over the money for a passport. There are a lot of people out there who cannot for one reason or another have a passport.

My ex can't get a passport because he doesn't pay his child support. He also can't get a driver's license. Some other reasons someone couldn't get a passport would be if they were being investigated for tax fraud, had a warrant for their arrest or not allowed to leave the country as a condition of their probation.

[BruceMuzz]

You do realize that none of the 9/11 terrorists had to do any of that, and that none of them were here with fake birth certificates and drivers licenses?

 

Yes, I am very aware of that fact.

But the next big terrorist attack - very likely on a cruise ship filled with Americans - will probably be enabled by the USA Government allowing people to circumvent security with these goofy birth certificates that anyone can produce at home.

 

All in the quest to save a couple of bucks..............

[njhorseman]

Yes, I am very aware of that fact.

But the next big terrorist attack - very likely on a cruise ship filled with Americans - will probably be enabled by the USA Government allowing people to circumvent security with these goofy birth certificates that anyone can produce at home.

 

All in the quest to save a couple of bucks..............

 

Of course there's no such thing as a forged passport, and no one has ever gotten aboard a ship with one...:rolleyes:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4478

[BruceMuzz]

Of course there's no such thing as a forged passport, and no one has ever gotten aboard a ship with one...:rolleyes:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4478

 

ANYTHING and EVERYTHING can be counterfeited.

 

The only question is how much time, money, technology, and expertise is required to do the job.

The answer to that question tells us how serious a country is about preventing forged documents and illegal travel across it's borders.

 

In this 21st century - just after the world's most famous terrorist has been killed and his followers may be planning revenge - knowing that a 12 year old with a cheap laptop can produce an "official" birth certificiate in about an hour (allowing just about anybody to travel into and out of the USA) does not give me that warm fuzzy feeling I was hoping for.

[6rugrats]

ANYTHING and EVERYTHING can be counterfeited.

 

In this 21st century - just after the world's most famous terrorist has been killed and his followers may be planning revenge - knowing that a 12 year old with a cheap laptop can produce an "official" birth certificiate in about an hour (allowing just about anybody to travel into and out of the USA) does not give me that warm fuzzy feeling I was hoping for.

Following this logic, then why couldn't one take this fake birth certificate and obtain a passport?

[njhorseman]

ANYTHING and EVERYTHING can be counterfeited.

 

The only question is how much time, money, technology, and expertise is required to do the job.

The answer to that question tells us how serious a country is about preventing forged documents and illegal travel across it's borders.

 

In this 21st century - just after the world's most famous terrorist has been killed and his followers may be planning revenge - knowing that a 12 year old with a cheap laptop can produce an "official" birth certificiate in about an hour (allowing just about anybody to travel into and out of the USA) does not give me that warm fuzzy feeling I was hoping for.

 

You can't travel into the USA on a birth certificate and you know it. As you know a birth certificate can be used for one thing only...a closed loop cruise that starts and ends in a US port, which means you already were in the USA.

[BruceMuzz]

You can't travel into the USA on a birth certificate and you know it. As you know a birth certificate can be used for one thing only...a closed loop cruise that starts and ends in a US port, which means you already were in the USA.

 

My ship departs Ft Lauderdale Florida on a Closed Loop Cruise.

At one of our foreign stops, one of my passengers, John Smith, goes ashore and gives his cabin key to Osama Bin Laden's brother, who takes his place onboard.

The night before, Osama's brother went to the Kinkos near his hotel and made his own birth certificate and paper driver's license with his photo and John Smith's name and address on them.

Then Osama's brother has a few nice cruise days before being welcomed into the USA at the end of the cruise.

[6rugrats]

My ship departs Ft Lauderdale Florida on a Closed Loop Cruise.

At one of our foreign stops, one of my passengers, John Smith, goes ashore and gives his cabin key to Osama Bin Laden's brother, who takes his place onboard.

The night before, Osama's brother went to the Kinkos near his hotel and made his own birth certificate and paper driver's license with his photo and John Smith's name and address on them.

Then Osama's brother has a few nice cruise days before being welcomed into the USA at the end of the cruise.

What state uses paper driver's licenses? And, any cruise I've been on, when reboarding the ship, your card is scanned, which brings your picture up on the monitor. It would be obvious that this person was not the original passenger. Oh, I forgot - while making the fake driver's license, he was having emergency plastic surgery :)!

 

BYW, I totally agree that it is ridiculous that the US does not require a passport for any travel outside of the US.

[BruceMuzz]

What state uses paper driver's licenses? And, any cruise I've been on, when reboarding the ship, your card is scanned, which brings your picture up on the monitor. It would be obvious that this person was not the original passenger. Oh, I forgot - while making the fake driver's license, he was having emergency plastic surgery :)!

 

BYW, I totally agree that it is ridiculous that the US does not require a passport for any travel outside of the US.

 

About one third of the US States still issue laminated paper driving licenses. Nobody - including a CBP Officer - can remember which ones they are.

At Kinkos, you can print out a very nice looking paper driving license and have it laminated at the same time. They also have machines for producing State or County Seals with raised lettering on birth certificates - the same machines the states and counties use.

 

When one of the 4,000 passengers on my ship walks up the gangway, the Security Guard is SUPPOSED to look at the photo on the monitor after the card is scanned.

The reality is that he rarely has time to look. Even when he does look, the photos are normally so poor in quality that he cannot really tell who is in the photo.

 

EVERY cruise we have between 10 and 20 cabins where the photos of the spouses are mistakenly placed on the wrong card. Every day, for 7 to 10 days, these people pass up and down the gangway and our security staff never notice that the cabin key is held by a man and has a man's name on it, but the photo is of a woman - or vice versa.

 

If they routinely miss an error like that, what hope have they of noticing that the photo of a particular man or woman is not exactly what the cardholder really looks like?

 

My company recently stopped calling at Jamaican ports after several problems with stowaways.

Four American Jamaicans would book a closed-loop cruise out of Miami, stopping in Jamaica.

In Jamaica, one of them would go ashore with all four cabin keys.

He would give the three other cabin keys to 3 Jamaicans who wanted to live in America.

The 3 would accompany him up the gangway with fake US Driving licenses.

Then the original guy would go ashore again with all 4 cards and repeat the exercise.

We caught them only by mistake. A cabin steward noticed one night that there was quite a bit of noise coming from one of the cabins in his section. When he opened the door, he found nearly 40 Jamaican stowaways jammed together in a tiny room. They all had fake driving licenses and fake birth certificates. They planned to tell Security at the gangway in Miami that they had lost their cabin keys, so they would be allowed to disembark the ship.

The company has no idea how many times this had happened on past cruises. It is likely that hundreds - or perhaps thousands - of Jamaicans illegally entered the USA using this scam.

Were any of them terrorists? Your guess is as good as mine.

 

The USA is so worried about counterfeit currency that they spent millions to make the new currency counterfeit-proof. Then they removed all the old U.S. currency from the market to prevent monkey business.

Then they were so worried about counterfeit passports that they spent more millions to insert smart chips and other anti-counterfeiting measures. But then they made a loop-hole so that anybody who wants to can easily sneak into the USA with simple counterfeit driving license and birth certificate.

 

It would appear that the US Government puts far greater value on it's currency than it does on the lives and safety of it's citizens.