Non-smoking NCL ship?????

[TPEINC1958]

Works on P&O and did on Ocean Village fleet..

How's that working out for Ocean Village?

[TPEINC1958]

Well I guess it's debatable but I'm not a big gambling person I'd just as soon let the smokers have their casino for a smoking lounge & not go there. It does help pay for the cruise lines profits & since I usually carry my own liquor, other than the entertainment we steer clear of the bars. My biggest objection is smoke on the balconies where there is no escape sometimes.

 

This speaks volumes. :(

[1 HappyCruiser]

This speaks volumes. :(

 

Since they drove me out of the bars years ago we haven't gone back since.

[Single Cruiser]

How's that working out for Ocean Village?

 

Worked fine for 7 years 2003-2010 but Carnival shifted the ships down to Australia as they had berths on P&O to fill. So Ventura and Azura etc are the same no inside smoking since about 2008 I think and seeing as P&O have just ordered another big ship to add to their fleet.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=3348

[galleycook]

And this relates to Cruise ships HOW? You can get off a plane, bus or train. You can leave a hotel and restaurant.

 

I am a smoker, would not cancel a cruise if NCL banned smoking in cabin, I don't do that anyway, even if they banned it on balconies as long as there were certian open deck areas where you could! I don't think they would ever ban it in the casinos!

 

Taking a bus to work everyday, may be a necessity. Taking a cruise isn't so don't get on the ship and you won't have to worry about getting off. I wouldn't try getting off a plane while it's flying either.

I thought it was an obvious point but just stating that you can't smoke in many, many places. Unlike not all that long ago when you could. If the trend is going this way, cruise ships could be next, and why not.

I suspect many casual smokers would eventually suck it up for a week. We know who will be the first off the ship when in port. But that's ok. There is always that threat of lost business. I don't agree. The ships don't have to be half empty. The same thing was said when restaurants were forced to become non-smoking (depends on the city). They experienced a slight drop and then when the smokers realized they wanted to eat out, back they came.

Even if this didn't happen in the cruise industry, the revenue could be made up. How much is spent because smoking is allowed???

How many man hours are spent, developing, modifying and maintaining polices with regards to smoking! How much extra does it cost to developed an infrastructure for the ship to accommodate smoking, i.e., enhanced ventilation, fireproofing, signage, waste disposal facilities, etc, etc! How much extra cost is associated with cleaning and sanitizing as a result of smoking (this number is huge)! How much extra does it cost to maintain the ship (gunked up ventilation systems don't fix themselves just as an example)! And what about the saving to be had in insurance fees! Isn't a fire on board a ship one of the most dangerous things that can happen (despite being surrounded by water). All these saving could easily be passed onto the passenger. This will either cause people who couldn't afford to cruise to join the club and, or cause avid cruiser to cruise more often. And if the smokers want to join in the saving, great.

The cruise lines could do it if they wanted to and the effects would average themselves out.

[mcathig]

Difference... I need to go to work to make money.. a bus ride is an hour or so... I get a break very few hours and can go outside if I choose,,,.. I go on vacation to relax and have fun... vacation is a choice (just like smoking) However, if I booked a cruise where my husband had to get dressed and walk to and area to smoke he would be angry... I cna live with non smoking rooms (I hate it) but I book a balcony so he can sit there ..outside (in his robe) and smoke....

 

I do think they could make smoking/ non smoking rooms and balconys... this would end the issue of being down wind of a smoker.....

 

My husband could live with non smoking casino, live with out smoking on the pool deck (a small area would be nice) but leave the cabin and balcony.... That way he could go back there for a smoke... Just label some rooms smoking.. when they are full you book another cruise or go to a smoking area...

[galleycook]

Around 22,000 folks each week cruise on NCL. A couple of hundred responses is a drop in the bucket. The only way these things change is if it makes financial sense. Cruising in Europe also presents challenges.

As soon as you segregate ships into smoking/non-smoking you begin sailing with partially filled ships. Not a good thing. Despite the vocal few, it has worked so far. Over the last few years I can count on one hand the folks that have said they were going to cancel or did change ships because of smoking.

By the way, I'm a non smoker.

 

Actually, this is how statistics work. You only require a small sample to reasonably predict the out come of something. This poll could very well be stating that the majority of the 22K passengers (if asked) would prefer a non-smoking ship. Businesses know that when they receive a complaint letter, "X" number of other people feel exactly the same. They just didn't bother to write.

See my other post in this thread as to why I don't agree that business would be lost (or at least doesn't have to be lost).

[newmexicoNita]

With all respect cruise critic are running a smoking poll on their home page. So far after a cpl hundred votes 78% have said they would sail on a non-smoking ship

 

Would you book a cruise on a non-smoking ship?

**Yes, I'd prefer it.: 78.81%

**Absolutely not.: 8.61%

**Maybe, if I'm traveling with non-smokers.: 5.30%

**I prefer ships that allow smoking.: 7.28%

 

ok, CC only represents about 1 to 2% of cruisers, not a very scientific poll and 78% would not come near filling the ship, thus ships would have to increase rates or head for financual losses.

 

NIta

[newmexicoNita]

You can't smoke on a plane, bus or train. There are non-smoking hotels and restaurants. You can't smoke in Government buildings and hospitals. The list goes on. Cruise ships.... Go for it!!

 

what about cruise ships are a little different do you not understand? Every example you have given requires smokers to either go outside of the building or in the case of a plane refrain from smoking for short periods of time. Cruising could require no smoking for as many as 3 or 4 days..You are comaring apples and oragnes at the best, more like cantalope and green beans.

 

NIta

[galleycook]

Difference... I need to go to work to make money.. a bus ride is an hour or so... I get a break very few hours and can go outside if I choose,,,.. I go on vacation to relax and have fun... vacation is a choice (just like smoking) However, if I booked a cruise where my husband had to get dressed and walk to and area to smoke he would be angry... I cna live with non smoking rooms (I hate it) but I book a balcony so he can sit there ..outside (in his robe) and smoke....

 

I do think they could make smoking/ non smoking rooms and balconys... this would end the issue of being down wind of a smoker.....

 

Right, you need to take the bus to go to work to make money. Would you stop half way to get off the bus just to have cigarette?? Would you make yourself late for work just to smoke?? I doubt it. So you are making a choice, albeit for a shorter time period of time. If a cruise line had a no smoking policy and you couldn't live without a cigarette between ports, then your choice should be not to book it instead of booking it and being angry because you couldn't smoke. Unfortunately we are not guaranteed or entitled to whatever vacation we might like or dream up. We make our plans based on what's out there.

If you notice, many hotels have smoking and non-smoking rooms. Look at the new hotels though. They are moving towards being completely smoke free. There must be a reason for this.

[DMH15]

I am booked on the Sun in 2013, (had a cruise reward certificate). But was researching Celebrity today for 2012. Thought I would try one with a non-smoking casino. That really intrigues me, can't imagine what it would feel like!

[galleycook]

what about cruise ships are a little different do you not understand? Every example you have given requires smokers to either go outside of the building or in the case of a plane refrain from smoking for short periods of time. Cruising could require no smoking for as many as 3 or 4 days..You are comaring apples and oragnes at the best, more like cantalope and green beans.

 

NIta

 

I understand completely. I will however say it again

 

Taking a bus to work everyday, may be a necessity. Taking a cruise isn't so don't get on the ship and you won't have to worry about getting off. I wouldn't try getting off a plane while it's flying either.

 

I thought it was an obvious point but just stating that you can't smoke in many, many places. Unlike not all that long ago when you could. If the trend is going this way, cruise ships could be next, and why not.

 

This is a trend. People didn't think they could last on a 7 hour flight in the past either and they survived. That's what I'm saying. Smokers might want to prepare for it because it will probably happen at some time in the future. Forget the fruit and read what I'm writing!

[rvsullivan]

I just don't get it. The existing program has worked for a long time. Smoking is not allowed in public area's that folks have to be in, i.e. dining, stores, etc. Some ships assign one side of the pool area to smokers. The only real area that is heavily smoked in is the casino. Even shore casino's allow smoking in certain areas. There is a reason the casino's allow this. If it made financial sense for them to become non smoking they would in a heart beat. They don't allow smoking for no reason.

Most of the posters here that have cruised on smoking ships in the past have stayed in rooms that had smokers in them without issue. The very, very few times a problem has been mentioned, the cruise line has fixed it. I hear folks mention that they don't want to ever smell smoke out on their balcony. The fact that you can at some time smell the odor of smoke is not the same as inhaling second hand smoke anymore than when they smell the smoke from the ships stacks. All smoke in the air has some harmful component. Some communities in New England are now entertaining laws to outlaw smoking outdoor because someone might smell it. I do agree that in general a person should not be required to stay in an enclosed space with unwanted smoking.

When New York City passed their laws banning smoking in dining and bars, a very creative individual decided to open a "smoking bar" to cater to smokers only. He lasted about a week or two before he was sued by a non smoker because they wanted to hang out with their smoking friends and he was closed down.

There is only one enclosed space on most NCL ships that is fully smoking. You can avoid that with no issue. As Rodney King said, "can't we all just get along"?

Still a non smoker, but starting to feel like I want to start.:D

[newmexicoNita]

Worked fine for 7 years 2003-2010 but Carnival shifted the ships down to Australia as they had berths on P&O to fill. So Ventura and Azura etc are the same no inside smoking since about 2008 I think and seeing as P&O have just ordered another big ship to add to their fleet.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=3348

 

you don't even have your facts right: The Paradise was built as a non smoking ship and even built by nom smokers but it had nothing to do with the dates you have listed: the ship went into the water in 1998. After the novelty of a non smoking ship wore off, the ship started losing money. They have been in So Cal doing Mexico for a number of years.

 

Nita

[galleycook]

The subsidy wouldn't be because of the cleaning, it would be to replace the lost revenue from the casino and bars.

 

Isn't it possible that non-smokers tend to stay away from those places because of the smoke, ie reduced revenue??

[Fishbait17]

Right, you need to take the bus to go to work to make money. Would you stop half way to get off the bus just to have cigarette?? Would you make yourself late for work just to smoke?? I doubt it. So you are making a choice, albeit for a shorter time period of time. If a cruise line had a no smoking policy and you couldn't live without a cigarette between ports, then your choice should be not to book it instead of booking it and being angry because you couldn't smoke. Unfortunately we are not guaranteed or entitled to whatever vacation we might like or dream up. We make our plans based on what's out there.

 

If you notice, many hotels have smoking and non-smoking rooms. Look at the new hotels though. They are moving towards being completely smoke free. There must be a reason for this.

 

Big difference between a one-hour bus ride (or even an 18 hour flight) and and one week cruise.. A cruise ship is a captive floating resort, not a bus, airplane, or even a hotel.

 

And yes, there are many non-smoking hotels - but not ENTIRELY non-smoking. Every non-smoking hotel I have ever stayed at (and I stay an average of 50 nights per year) has an outdoor area for smoking. Even Disney World, with their very restrictive smoking rules, has outdoor smoking areas at all its hotels and theme parks.

 

If NCL went totally non-smoking, they would lose an average of $15-20K per week for an average of 3 weeks per year from me - I have left other non-smoking casino resorts in the past and NCL has been the beneficiary. I would be fine with one non-smoking ship, but then it would just be a matter of time before people were demanding more ships, more itineraries, etc. If NCL thinks it could make up the lost revenue from smoking gamblers, it's fine with me - I can move on. We try very hard to be polite smokers, and are much more conscientious than most non-smokers realize, but there is just no pleasing everyone.

 

Robin

[Fishbait17]

Isn't it possible that non-smokers tend to stay away from those places because of the smoke, ie reduced revenue??

 

I don't get the bar reference - you can't smoke at any indoor bars on NCL already, only a single outdoor bar where I hardly ever see someone who is not smoking - so what non-smoker is avoiding the bars? Smokers tend to drink more, so therefore they generate more bar revenue, there is nobody avoiding the bars because people in them smoke (ouside)? As for the casino, I think there would be a great revenue loss - there is a proven correlation between gambling and smoking (they affect the same part of the brain). Sure, some non-smokers may come to the casino that might have avoided it previously, but I don't think it would be anywhere near the number they would lose if smokers didn't sail.. Non-smoking players go to the casino whther it allows smoking or not, the ones who avoid it are merely dabblers. If you are willing to pay higher fares to make up for lost casino revenue, then so be it - you will have your totally smoke-free ship.

 

Robin

[galleycook]

I just don't get it. The existing program has worked for a long time. Smoking is not allowed in public area's that folks have to be in, i.e. dining, stores, etc. Some ships assign one side of the pool area to smokers. The only real area that is heavily smoked in is the casino. Even shore casino's allow smoking in certain areas. There is a reason the casino's allow this. If it made financial sense for them to become non smoking they would in a heart beat. They don't allow smoking for no reason.

Most of the posters here that have cruised on smoking ships in the past have stayed in rooms that had smokers in them without issue. The very, very few times a problem has been mentioned, the cruise line has fixed it. I hear folks mention that they don't want to ever smell smoke out on their balcony. The fact that you can at some time smell the odor of smoke is not the same as inhaling second hand smoke anymore than when they smell the smoke from the ships stacks. All smoke in the air has some harmful component. Some communities in New England are now entertaining laws to outlaw smoking outdoor because someone might smell it. I do agree that in general a person should not be required to stay in an enclosed space with unwanted smoking.

When New York City passed their laws banning smoking in dining and bars, a very creative individual decided to open a "smoking bar" to cater to smokers only. He lasted about a week or two before he was sued by a non smoker because they wanted to hang out with their smoking friends and he was closed down.

There is only one enclosed space on most NCL ships that is fully smoking. You can avoid that with no issue. As Rodney King said, "can't we all just get along"?

Still a non smoker, but starting to feel like I want to start.:D

 

Personally I have seen more than a few complaints regarding the smell of smoke in a room by a non-smoker. When I spend a lot of money on a cruise, that is the last thing that I want to have to worry about but do until I get on the ship. To date I haven't had a problem. But that's to date.

 

However, for example, on the GEM, you have to pass through the casino to get to the theater. This is not the only way but why should you have to go up or down a level to pass through a non-smoking area. And what if a non-smoker wants to gamble. They are subjected to a smokey enviroment.

 

So even though the system has worked, it doesn't mean that it couldn't be better IMO.

[Single Cruiser]

you don't even have your facts right: The Paradise was built as a non smoking ship and even built by nom smokers but it had nothing to do with the dates you have listed: the ship went into the water in 1998. After the novelty of a non smoking ship wore off, the ship started losing money. They have been in So Cal doing Mexico for a number of years.

 

Nita

 

Err excuse me but what is this Paradise you are on about? If you are going to quote me at least read the post I was answering which was how did Ocean Village fare with non-smoking.

 

So you don't have your facts right!

[sparks1093]

Isn't it possible that non-smokers tend to stay away from those places because of the smoke, ie reduced revenue??

 

We've already been down this road, the topic was lost revenue on the ship that was made completely non-smoking, specifically the revenue lost thru the casino and bars. Non-smokers wouldn't be avoiding those areas because of the smoke on that ship because there was no smoke to avoid. I'm sure if the non-smoking ship had made money it would still be non-smoking and there would be other non-smoking ships.

[galleycook]

We've already been down this road, the topic was lost revenue on the ship that was made completely non-smoking, specifically the revenue lost thru the casino and bars. Non-smokers wouldn't be avoiding those areas because of the smoke on that ship because there was no smoke to avoid. I'm sure if the non-smoking ship had made money it would still be non-smoking and there would be other non-smoking ships.

 

Sorry I've followed the chain and don't see that reference in this thread.

[galleycook]

I don't get the bar reference - you can't smoke at any indoor bars on NCL already, only a single outdoor bar where I hardly ever see someone who is not smoking - so what non-smoker is avoiding the bars? Smokers tend to drink more, so therefore they generate more bar revenue, there is nobody avoiding the bars because people in them smoke (ouside)? As for the casino, I think there would be a great revenue loss - there is a proven correlation between gambling and smoking (they affect the same part of the brain). Sure, some non-smokers may come to the casino that might have avoided it previously, but I don't think it would be anywhere near the number they would lose if smokers didn't sail.. Non-smoking players go to the casino whther it allows smoking or not, the ones who avoid it are merely dabblers. If you are willing to pay higher fares to make up for lost casino revenue, then so be it - you will have your totally smoke-free ship.

 

Robin

 

You're asking the wrong person. Apparently Sparks1093 says this is in reference to a non-smoking ship losing revenue.

[galleycook]

Big difference between a one-hour bus ride (or even an 18 hour flight) and and one week cruise.. A cruise ship is a captive floating resort, not a bus, airplane, or even a hotel.

 

And yes, there are many non-smoking hotels - but not ENTIRELY non-smoking. Every non-smoking hotel I have ever stayed at (and I stay an average of 50 nights per year) has an outdoor area for smoking. Even Disney World, with their very restrictive smoking rules, has outdoor smoking areas at all its hotels and theme parks.

 

If NCL went totally non-smoking, they would lose an average of $15-20K per week for an average of 3 weeks per year from me - I have left other non-smoking casino resorts in the past and NCL has been the beneficiary. I would be fine with one non-smoking ship, but then it would just be a matter of time before people were demanding more ships, more itineraries, etc. If NCL thinks it could make up the lost revenue from smoking gamblers, it's fine with me - I can move on. We try very hard to be polite smokers, and are much more conscientious than most non-smokers realize, but there is just no pleasing everyone.

 

Robin

 

As you state, you are captive. No argument from me. That's why you decide before hand if you can last and book accordingly. As I said, taking the bus may be a necessity, taking a cruise isn't. You have stated that you would move on if they implemented this policy. You've made that descion. I respect that.

The fact that non-smoking properties set aside areas outside for smoking, is a simple way to accommodate the smoker while maintaining the integrity of the non-smoking facility. They have set aside an area outside of the facility to accommodate smokers. And, I'm ok with that. But that non-smoking hotel still ensures that I will not have a smoke smell or residue in my room or in any areas of the hotel that I decide to utilize. If they could designate an "outside common area" where smoking is permitted on the ship (as with the non-smoking hotels), I'm ok with that. But as with the hotel it has to be 1 common area. Not every balcony. I also want to say that I appreciate the fact that you are polite and conscientious when smoking but you have only so much control unfortunately.

I've put up with smoke in the casino on all my cruises. It would be nice for a change to have the smokers concede, at least until a better plan is devised.

[sparks1093]

Sorry I've followed the chain and don't see that reference in this thread.

 

See posts 7, 12, 31, 33, and 35;).

[TPEINC1958]

 

I've put up with smoke in the casino on all my cruises. It would be nice for a change to have the smokers concede, at least until a better plan is devised.

 

Smokers concede to what? The vocal minority?

 

The rules are in place and the corporate officers have done their modeling and this is what works to meet their revenue requirements. A few people here suggesting things without significant facts in hand are not going to change things?

 

I reiterate, I am a non-smoker and spend a fair amount of time in the casino and have not witnessed half of the things people complain about on my 25 NCL cruises and 7 others.