HAL Does It Again!

[Opinions]

Today July 9, 2011 I recevied a copy of their brochure " Values Dreams On Sale"...On page 5 under Savor it says:

 

"Dine "As You Wish" or choose a traditional preset seating in the main Dining Room".

 

This is what they also said back in a March brochure...Seems contrary to what some post on these boards.

[RevNeal]

It's not just contrary to what some say on these boards -- it's contrary to what HAL says on their OWN website:

 

DINING

Overview

 

Enjoy exquisite dining across a range of venues on Holland America Line cruises

Throughout your cruise vacation, you will enjoy delicious and innovative menus across a broad range of dining venues. From a casual bite poolside to a formal five-course affair in our classic main Dining Room, the crew of Holland America Line will orchestrate a truly memorable dining experience. Led by Master Chef Rudi Sodamin, our exceptional culinary staff creates signature Holland America Line dishes using only the freshest produce and the highest quality meats and seafood available. Our knowledgeable wine stewards are adept at pairing the perfect wine with every dish. Whether you desire the relaxed atmosphere of the Lido, the elegance of the Pinnacle Grill or dinner for two on your private verandah, the choice is always yours.

 

As You Wish® dining on all cruises

 

From a festive five-course affair to a quick, casual dinner for two, our As You Wish® dining lets you choose the venues and style that suit you.

 

The elegant main Dining Room

 

• Luxurious Dining Room, graced with fine art and antiques
  
• Sophisticated Rosenthal china and crisp white table linens
  
• Five-course menus with offerings from classic preparations regionally inspired cuisine to vegetarian options
  
• Your choice of traditional pre-set seating and dining times or a flexible open schedule
  

 

The Pinnacle Grill experience

 

• Intimate dining featuring Sterling Silver Beef® and fresh seafood
  
• Luxurious appointments including Bvlgari® china, Riedel® stemware and Frette® linens
  
• Extensive wine list featuring many selections rated “Excellent” by Wine Spectator
  
• Featuring "An Evening at Le Cirque in the Pinnacle Grill"
  

 

Other delightful ways to dine

 

• Fresh, cooked-to-order specialties in the Lido Restaurant for breakfast and lunch
  
• Made-to-order dinner entrees and tableside waiter service in the Lido Restaurant for dinner
  
• Complimentary 24-hour in-room dining
  
• The Terrace Grill on deck
  
• Late-night snack; Chocolate Dessert Extravaganza
  
• Explorations Café featuring pastries and espresso drinks
  
• Daily Afternoon Tea service, elevated to Royal Dutch High Tea once per cruise
  

 

A master staff and crew

 

• Enhanced menu design under the direction of Master Chef Rudi Sodamin
  
• Executive chefs inducted into the prestigious Confrerie de la Chaine des Rotisseurs, an international food and wine society
  

 

Signature touches

 

• Ice cream bar featuring complimentary treats
  
• Hot hors d’oeuvres during cocktail hour.
  

 

Clearly, based upon their website, Traditional Dining is part of "As You Wish." However, what they call it hardly matters ... it is what it is. Someone needs to tell marketing, however, that they're scrambling up their terminology.

[cruz chic]

Someone needs to tell marketing, however, that they're scrambling up their terminology.

But HAL is famous for not knowing their left hand from their right. Why would they want to change:D:p;)?

[RevNeal]

But HAL is famous for not knowing their left hand from their right. Why would they want to change:D:p;)?

 

LOL ... excellent point. And so very true.

[sail7seas]

It's in the language but you can select a fixed table and time from the two traditional seatings. Early Upper and Main Upper. We dine at 8 P.M. every night at the same table with same dining team (unless we go to Pinnacle etc).

 

Others opt to dine on the lower level which flexible seating times and tables. Some do report 'customizing' their dine when you wish option.

 

[RevNeal]

It's in the language but you can select a fixed table and time from the two traditional seatings. Early Upper and Main Upper. We dine at 8 P.M. every night at the same table with same dining team (unless we go to Pinnacle etc).

 

Others opt to dine on the lower level which flexible seating times and tables. Some do report 'customizing' their dine when you wish option.

 

Agreed. That's what HAL has posted on their website.

 

Your choice of traditional pre-set seating and dining times or a flexible open schedule

 

This clearly states that one of the choices in As You Wish Dining is between either traditional pre-set seating and dining times OR a flexible open schedule. It appears to not be what HAL is putting in some of their other marketing materials, however. Hence, the confusion. Additionally, some people only see "choice" in the "flexible open schedule," not in the option of selecting a "traditional pre-set seating and dining time."

 

In the great scheme of things, issues of nomenclature don't seem like much of a big deal to me ... and certainly not worth "arguing" about. If those who select Open Seating want to think of themselves as being the only ones to get "As You Wish" and want to discount as regimented or old fashioned those of us who are Traditionalists and enjoy the fixed seating and timing schedule, let 'em. If they select Open Seating it means there's a better chance I can dine "As I Wish" in Traditional, at a fixed table at 8 pm.

[Mary Ellen]

When one goes to the HAL site and makes a booking, for the dining option, does it say "open seating" or "As You Wish"???? They have Open Seating. Enough said.

[RevNeal]

I've skimmed through several brochures and have found examples of BOTH positions in the SAME brochure. For instance: I checked out the Discover Holland America Line brochure which you can find under e-Brochures on HAL's site. These are digital copies of the physical brochures they'll mail to you or you can pick up aboard ship. On page 15, to the right of a huge picture of the main dining room, among a collection of other statements regarding "Orchestrating excellence" "On the menu" "A sophisticated setting" and "An impressive cellar" one finds the following:

 

 

At first glance this would, indeed, tend to make one think that "As You Wish" is the Open seating option, only. But, then, when one keeps looking one finds out that it's also applied to traditional. On page 10, for instance, near the beginning of the section dealing with food, it has the following situated to the left of huge page-sized photo of a Lobster Tail:

 

 

The "As You Wish" trademark is followed by multiple options, NOT JUST the Open Seating option in the MDR. It includes Canaletto, Pinnacle Grill, Fixed Dining, and Open Seating. I notice, however, that the marketers seem to favor the "spontaneous" over the "specific" :D (the wording is loaded). Nevertheless, the "flexibility to choose the dining style you prefer" seems to reflect the choice between Traditional and Open ... and both, plus the other restaurants aboard ship, are included in "As You Wish."

 

Both clips come from the SAME brochure.

 

I've looked at several e-Brochures from HAL and they all seem to contain wording that might lend them to both sides of the argument. Another example of where a brochure indicates that Fixed Dining is part of the As You Wish Dining Experience can be found in most of the regional brochures (brochures dealing with areas of cruising, like Europe or the Americas) under Dining:

 

 

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. While examples of confusing wording can be found in the brochures, so can examples of where AYWD is clearly intended to include Traditional Fixed Seating and Times.

[Opinions]

 

I don't find anything confusing about the wording in the brochure I just received...It's quite clear in what it says...I don't believe it's a question of what HAL "intended"...Many have interpreted it differently and the many examples you give shows the cruiseline is just as confused.

[jhannah]

I remember that the same issue came up when Princess went with the concept some years ago. It was hard to get some folks to understand that the "as you wish" concept included ALL dining options. Now they simply refer to traditional and anytime dining ... dropping the confusing (to some) marketing phrase.

[RevNeal]

I remember that the same issue came up when Princess went with the concept some years ago. It was hard to get some folks to understand that the "as you wish" concept included ALL dining options. Now they simply refer to traditional and anytime dining ... dropping the confusing (to some) marketing phrase.

 

Which sounds like a good idea to me. :D

[Mary Ellen]

excellent suggestion, Jim.

I remember that the same issue came up when Princess went with the concept some years ago. It was hard to get some folks to understand that the "as you wish" concept included ALL dining options. Now they simply refer to traditional and anytime dining ... dropping the confusing (to some) marketing phrase.

[Taxguy77]

I wish the "as you wish" would have included me,,, I had to take what THEY wished!:(

[DutchByAssociation]

Today July 9, 2011 I recevied a copy of their brochure " Values Dreams On Sale"...On page 5 under Savor it says:

 

"Dine "As You Wish" or choose a traditional preset seating in the main Dining Room".

 

This is what they also said back in a March brochure...Seems contrary to what some post on these boards.

 

As You Wish does include preset fixed dining, but the rest of the dining options as well.

 

Was this truly needing a brand new thread?

[Randyk47]

As You Wish does include preset fixed dining, but the rest of the dining options as well.

 

Was this truly needing a brand new thread?

 

It was pretty clear to me but then I got confused. ;):)

[mightycruisequeen]

Was this truly needing a brand new thread?

Thank you, DBA!:D You said just what I was thinking.

[taxmantoo]

Whatever they choose to call it, most people I've seen on cruise ships know whether they have a set dining time every night or they can go when they want. For some reason, this issue seems a lot more important to the 5% of us who are CC members than the other 95% of the passengers.

 

p.s. And more, regardless of the name, no passenger ever goes hungry on a HAL ship. :D

[jhannah]

I wish the "as you wish" would have included me,,, I had to take what THEY wished!:(

Therein lies the rub with that catchphrase. Lots of folks don't get to dine as THEY wish.

[Cruising-along]

Whatever they choose to call it, most people I've seen on cruise ships know whether they have a set dining time every night or they can go when they want. For some reason, this issue seems a lot more important to the 5% of us who are CC members than the other 95% of the passengers.

 

p.s. And more, regardless of the name, no passenger ever goes hungry on a HAL ship. :D

 

 

And really, not all of that 5% care very much! I could care less what they call it. Why it's such a big deal to some is beyond me. :rolleyes:

 

Some seem to fear that the world will think they aren't dining as they wish if they have fixed seating. Kind of defensive IMO. Who cares, it's really such a non-issue.

[iancal]

Agree. We never read any of the brochures and bumph that come through the mail box...it hits the recycle and does not even pass by the kitchen table on it's way there. Same with the email offers.

 

When we book we know that we either have fist, second, or no assigned seating. It is not rocket science-notwithstanding HAL's nomenclature.

[kelmac]

I wish the "as you wish" would have included me,,, I had to take what THEY wished!:(

 

Very true! Our last two HAL cruises we had traditional early seating, but when we showed up -- "sorry, no tables for two available in fixed seating" -- you will have to switch to open seating to get that.

Of course, when we looked up at the fixed dining room, several tables for two were open.

One of the things we really liked about the "old" HAL, was the ability to request, and always get, a specific table in the dining room! It set them apart from the other lines.

We have requested a table for two, early seating, on the N Amsterdam -- going to give them another chance at this "As You Wish" dinning.

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

[3rdGenCunarder]

Very true! Our last two HAL cruises we had traditional early seating, but when we showed up -- "sorry, no tables for two available in fixed seating" -- you will have to switch to open seating to get that.

Of course, when we looked up at the fixed dining room, several tables for two were open.

One of the things we really liked about the "old" HAL, was the ability to request, and always get, a specific table in the dining room! It set them apart from the other lines.

We have requested a table for two, early seating, on the N Amsterdam -- going to give them another chance at this "As You Wish" dinning.

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

 

What did you do when they said you couldn't get your two-top for early fixed? Go to a larger table, or accept open dining? We like a large table. We eat alone together at home all the time. Meeting new people makes dinner entertaining. And if you have a large table at a fixed dining time, everyone shows up at the same time so you don't have to wait while they fill a large table.

[cruz chic]

And if you have a large table at a fixed dining time, everyone shows up at the same time so you don't have to wait while they fill a large table.

Oh how I wish that was true. The last few cruises I've had traditional people don't feel they need to arrive on time. That rubs me the wrong way. I always said that not getting traditional early was a deal breaker for me. I've had open dining twice and I've found I quite like it.

[kelmac]

What did you do when they said you couldn't get your two-top for early fixed? Go to a larger table, or accept open dining? We like a large table. We eat alone together at home all the time. Meeting new people makes dinner entertaining. And if you have a large table at a fixed dining time, everyone shows up at the same time so you don't have to wait while they fill a large table.

 

We aren't antisocial, we just enjoy this time together -- we focus on the food and our time together. The Asst Maitre'd in charge of seating wanted us to stay with our table for eight for a night or two, until something opened up. I think it is awkward to bond with a group, only to bail on them the next night.

The only other option -- "move to open seating". I think HAL made a huge mistake using 65% of the dining room for open seating. They use this "ploy" in order to move more people out of fixed seating.

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)