rallydave Posted September 17, 2011 #51 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Regarding the horrible, awful, demeaning, ugly, distruptive (etc.) art auctions. You may know more about this than I do. It seems that Regent is still under contract with them while Oceania is not. I would think that Regent could get out of the contract with Park West now that it has been proven that they have sold fake prints ( http://www.artdaily.com/index.asp?int_sec=11&int_new=38076&int_modo=1 ). tc, totally agree with most of the above message except for the "get out of contract" portion. A contract is a contract and unless the contract includes wording that a conviction for selling fake prints is included, breaking the law regarding something not included in the Contract does not allow one to end the Contract. Wish we could get rid of Park West immediately but, unfortunatly we have to wait until the Contract end date unless Park West breaches any of the terms of the Contract. I'll provide you an example that is rather strong but, makes the point. Say you sign a standard Contract to buy someone elses house and everything in the Contract is adheared to. A week before closing one of the owners kills the other in the house and is convicted and sent to prison. You still have to go forward and purchase the house per the Contract and if you don't, you will be in breach of the contract, not the selling party. IOW, if it isn't in the Contract, it doesn't apply. Word to the wise, read any Contract before you sign it and if there is somethng that you want to add, delete, or change, don't let the other party tell you that you can't change a standard or special Contract. As long as all parties agree, any Contract is amendable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFr Posted September 17, 2011 #52 Share Posted September 17, 2011 We were on the Navigator for 12 nights in May 2011. I was surprised that Regent still had the dreaded art auctions. You are right that no one forces you to go but.....On a cruising day when the weather wasn't conducive to sitting on our veranda or outside on deck....Deck 6 was full of art being displayed everywhere. It felt more like a mass market line than a luxury line. juli2020, When I was on the Navigator in 2010, the auction art displayed on the ship was confined to a small area. Most of the art displayed on deck 6 and other decks was part of the permanent collection owned by Regent. Are you saying that was not the case on your cruise in May? Regarding the horrible, awful, demeaning, ugly, distruptive (etc.) art auctions. You may know more about this than I do. It seems that Regent is still under contract with them while Oceania is not. I would think that Regent could get out of the contract with Park West now that it has been proven that they have sold fake prints ( http://www.artdaily.com/index.asp?int_sec=11&int_new=38076&int_modo=1 ). TC, While Regent could attempt to get out of their contract, it would most probably be an expensive proposition. It's very likely that Park West would sue Regent for breach of contract. As a general rule, litigation is expensive. Assuming Regent, like Oceania, intends not to renew its contract with Park West, a lot depends on how long the current contract still has to run. For example, if the current contract expires on December 31, 2011, Regent would be foolish to expose itself to substantial potential litigation expense in order to get out of its contract a few months early. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoBirdCruiser Posted September 17, 2011 #53 Share Posted September 17, 2011 When I was on Oceania a few years back, we had to pay for bottled water, specialty coffees and pop/soda drinks....So now they are included?......Nice to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toranut97 Posted September 17, 2011 #54 Share Posted September 17, 2011 When I was on Oceania a few years back, we had to pay for bottled water, specialty coffees and pop/soda drinks....So now they are included?......Nice to know. Yes. Coffees, teas, soft drinks and many juices are included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy The Wanderer Posted September 17, 2011 #55 Share Posted September 17, 2011 With regards to tipping:whether we are on Regent, Silversea or Seabourn, we always tip extra for great service. Our travel agent gets the gratuities included on Oceania. So the only extras that we are paying for on Oceania would be the shore excursions and alcohol. One pays up front on Regent and one pays at the end on Oceania. I'm a bit confused. You tip extra on the luxury lines, but even though you get included gratuities on Oceania, you do not tip extra there? Perhaps that's not what you meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelcat2 Posted September 17, 2011 #56 Share Posted September 17, 2011 tc, totally agree with most of the above message except for the "get out of contract" portion. A contract is a contract and unless the contract includes wording that a conviction for selling fake prints is included, breaking the law regarding something not included in the Contract does not allow one to end the Contract. Wish we could get rid of Park West immediately but, unfortunatly we have to wait until the Contract end date unless Park West breaches any of the terms of the Contract. I'll provide you an example that is rather strong but, makes the point. Say you sign a standard Contract to buy someone elses house and everything in the Contract is adheared to. A week before closing one of the owners kills the other in the house and is convicted and sent to prison. You still have to go forward and purchase the house per the Contract and if you don't, you will be in breach of the contract, not the selling party. IOW, if it isn't in the Contract, it doesn't apply. Word to the wise, read any Contract before you sign it and if there is somethng that you want to add, delete, or change, don't let the other party tell you that you can't change a standard or special Contract. As long as all parties agree, any Contract is amendable. Very good advice! I was under the mis-impression (is there such a word?) that if it was proven (as in this case) that they have sold fake prints, that it could void a contract. Unlike killing your spouse/housemate (not a great idea:-), Regent is apparently contracted to continue selling "artwork" from Park West even though it could be fake because it isn't specifically spelled out in their contract. I wonder if Regent could put a notice in Passages that the authenticity of items sold on board (or from Park West) is not guaranteed and Regent does not stand behind them (should be worded much better than that). juli2020: To get further off topic, many people feel that on a cruise line where "tipping is not required or expected" that donations be made to the crew fund in lieu of tipping. You may want to do a search for the many threads discussing this subject indepth. DaveFr: While I have not seen huge displays of Park West "artwork" on the Navigator, it is quite prominent on the Mariner (perhaps because there is so much space on the ship). One night they lined the isles leading to Compass Rose and Prime 7 with easels. They also took over Stars Lounge with easels everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juli2020 Posted September 17, 2011 #57 Share Posted September 17, 2011 I'm a bit confused. You tip extra on the luxury lines, but even though you get included gratuities on Oceania, you do not tip extra there? Perhaps that's not what you meant. Wendy, Of course we would tip extra on Oceania for great service even though our travel agent includes the gratuities. To DaveFr, There was art scattered on easels throughout deck 6. It was the same art that is for sale on other lines that have art auctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedC Posted September 17, 2011 #58 Share Posted September 17, 2011 The "art" I've seen on Regent ships wasn't to my taste but it's easy to avoid the auctions. If the income from the "art" sales moderates our cruise fares I can easily live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelcat2 Posted September 18, 2011 #59 Share Posted September 18, 2011 The "art" I've seen on Regent ships wasn't to my taste but it's easy to avoid the auctions. If the income from the "art" sales moderates our cruise fares I can easily live with it. Just want to make sure I am understanding you correctly. If the income from the "art" sales moderates our cruise fares, it doesn't matter that it has been proven that they have sold fake artwork? Just clarifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondorner Posted September 18, 2011 #60 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I can add a little clarity to the art auction thing.Park West is under contract with any cruise line to share the income from the art sales. The cruise line does not care if the art is "real" or "fake". In fact, if they sell you a Mona Lisa, it's probably a pretty good guess that it's not "real" -- it would have to be a copy, probably from some unknown artist I haven't read all the case information about Park West, but I don't think the issue had anything to do with the quality of the art, I think it was more about the prices charged at sea and the fact that the same art was available ashore for significantly less, when the "auctioneers" were claiming otherwise. People quite rightoy got a bit upset when they returned home to find out they had paid real money for junk. Again, however, the cruise line takes a Caveat Emptor approach to the actual sales. Their contract is to provide space in return for a share of any profits. As long as passengers are foolish enough to continue to pay the high prices and buy the jun -- oops, art -- and the cruise lline continues to enjoy a decent return, the sales will continue. According to an indisputable source, what happened on Oceania was that sales declined to the point that providing berth and board for the auctioneers was costing more than their share of the sales revenue. Auctioneers do not reside in the crew quarters, they occupy potential income-producing cabins. When the passenger income for that cabin becomes greater than the art income, Wham! Goodby Park West. And, according to most of the opinions noted at the time, most of the passengers cheered. Seems no one missed the somewhat obnoxious auctioneers (especially one who referred to himself as "Tiny Time"), the lousy art spread around the ship, the space taken up by the auctioneers desk (now used by the future cruise consultant), the cheap sparkling plonk they called champagne, and the announcements over the PA system. Management shrugged; the decision was a no-brainer. All people have to do to get rid of the art auctions on Regent is stop biuying :rolleyes:... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelcat2 Posted September 18, 2011 #61 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I am just disappointed that a respected cruise line would allow a company with this proven record to be on their cruise ships. Just having them there could make one assume they approve and even recommend them. IMO, the following statement is a strong reason not to allow them on the ship -- for any reason ("The recent loss of Park West Gallery’s defamation case against Fine Art Registry and three individuals shows that the jury in Federal Court in Eastern Michigan had no doubt that the evidence they were shown proved that Park West Gallery has been selling and continues to sell inauthentic art, including Salvador Dalí prints, using fraudulent misrepresentation at art auctions on cruise ships.") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shedridt Posted September 18, 2011 #62 Share Posted September 18, 2011 We've sailed O twice & love them, but have rec'd brochures from Regent that suggest better value. I just posted a thread on O for discussion - no flies on me! -- & hope you will comment on both threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shedridt Posted September 18, 2011 #63 Share Posted September 18, 2011 On our first O cruise ~2009 (Australia/NZ - terrific!) we DID feel very nickled & dimed as they were charging us $1.25 for water which is just a nuisance & we told them so, & on our next cruise water was provided at no charge & that was great. BUT - nickles & dimes come at different levels, & if you do not book a Concierge Level Cabin you can kiss good-bye any chance of getting a booking in any of the specialty restaurants beyond the one allowed per cruise. THIS is truly a sneaky way to nickle & dime cruisers - & they don't even know they've been had until they're on the cruise & can't get into the premium restaurants. It's a shake-down, to be sure. As I crunch the numbers, Regent looks more & more attractive to me, much as I love O.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondorner Posted September 18, 2011 #64 Share Posted September 18, 2011 On our first O cruise ~2009 (Australia/NZ - terrific!) we DID feel very nickled & dimed as they were charging us $1.25 for water which is just a nuisance & we told them so, & on our next cruise water was provided at no charge & that was great. BUT - nickles & dimes come at different levels, & if you do not book a Concierge Level Cabin you can kiss good-bye any chance of getting a booking in any of the specialty restaurants beyond the one allowed per cruise. THIS is truly a sneaky way to nickle & dime cruisers - & they don't even know they've been had until they're on the cruise & can't get into the premium restaurants. It's a shake-down, to be sure. As I crunch the numbers, Regent looks more & more attractive to me, much as I love O....Frankly, using words like "shake down", it doesn't sound like you love O very much. Your flat statement about specialty reservations, that you tried to make sound like fact, is simply not true. I've traveled in Category C Ocean View on Insignia and had 3 specialty reservations in each of the ttwo specialty restaurants, a total of 6. If one is trying to get a table for two at 7:30 on a sea day, one may not be successful every time. They can't create more space out of thin air. But, if one is reasonably flexible and willing to share a table, and if one asks with a smile, one will most likely be successful. There are numerous reports of the same treatment, far more than those who claim they couldn't get extra reservations. It's my experience that it's far more difficult to get extra reservations on Regent, perhaps because the specialty restaurants (especially on Navigator) seat fewer people than the Oceania venues. It's a fact that all categories of suites on Regent are only guaranteed one visit in each alternative restaurant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcandkc Posted September 18, 2011 #65 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I was on the Navigator on 8/17. I did not notice any art auction. Maybe they ran out of "art" in Alaska and didn't want to transport more in. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCKelly Posted September 19, 2011 #66 Share Posted September 19, 2011 On our first O cruise ~2009 (Australia/NZ - terrific!) we DID feel very nickled & dimed as they were charging us $1.25 for water which is just a nuisance & we told them so, & on our next cruise water was provided at no charge & that was great. BUT - nickles & dimes come at different levels, & if you do not book a Concierge Level Cabin you can kiss good-bye any chance of getting a booking in any of the specialty restaurants beyond the one allowed per cruise. THIS is truly a sneaky way to nickle & dime cruisers - & they don't even know they've been had until they're on the cruise & can't get into the premium restaurants. It's a shake-down, to be sure. As I crunch the numbers, Regent looks more & more attractive to me, much as I love O.... I have not been on O, so can't comment about the availabity of specialty restaurant reservations. But on Regent, you are only allowed to pre-book one reservation at each specialty restaurant, and reservations after on board were very hard to come by. We were on a ten day cruise, and were finally able to make one more reservation at Signatures after checking every day. Note that this was even before Regent's concierge program was in effect. So I find it unlikely that you will find the Restaurant situation hardly any different to that on Oceania. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelcat2 Posted September 19, 2011 #67 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I have not been on O, so can't comment about the availabity of specialty restaurant reservations. But on Regent, you are only allowed to pre-book one reservation at each specialty restaurant, and reservations after on board were very hard to come by. We were on a ten day cruise, and were finally able to make one more reservation at Signatures after checking every day. Note that this was even before Regent's concierge program was in effect. So I find it unlikely that you will find the Restaurant situation hardly any different to that on Oceania. We also have not sailed on Oceania but agree with your comments regarding Regent. This is one of many reasons we are not in favor of the concierge program that goes into effect next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChatKat in Ca. Posted September 19, 2011 #68 Share Posted September 19, 2011 When we were on Oceania our companions ate in the specialty restaurants almost daily with out a problem. They were not in Concierge Class. We ate in them several times in each on both of our O cruises. Same on Regent - we have not had any issue getting into the restaurants. Maybe we could not get the exact day and time but we never missed. On almost every R cruise we were in Signatures twice. (unless we were on Navigator where there is no Signatures) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighter Pilot Posted October 13, 2011 #69 Share Posted October 13, 2011 When we were on Oceania our companions ate in the specialty restaurants almost daily with out a problem. They were not in Concierge Class. We ate in them several times in each on both of our O cruises. Same on Regent - we have not had any issue getting into the restaurants. Maybe we could not get the exact day and time but we never missed. On almost every R cruise we were in Signatures twice. (unless we were on Navigator where there is no Signatures) We sailed on Marina last summer and will be on Riviera's maiden voyage in April. Both times in PH3. It's a PERFECT accommodation in every way. Deck 10 to avoid the big,room darkening overhhang on 11. Our experience was incredible. Our butler snagged speciality res. for every night but 4. For those it was one dinner with the Captain; one with the dancers; a FREE night at La Reserve and a FREE (really!) night for us and 6 guests of our choosing at Privee. Unbelievable. Also a free spa treatment of our choosing. TA paid the auto gratuity. We tipped our amazing butler extra and went away wondering what it was that rated us such amazing perks. It was our FIRST O cruise. Needless to say, that's why we are returning. BTW, we researched and found that Prestige Tranquility Bed and now sleep on it every night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelcat2 Posted October 14, 2011 #70 Share Posted October 14, 2011 We sailed on Marina last summer and will be on Riviera's maiden voyage in April. Both times in PH3. It's a PERFECT accommodation in every way. Deck 10 to avoid the big,room darkening overhhang on 11. Our experience was incredible. Our butler snagged speciality res. for every night but 4. For those it was one dinner with the Captain; one with the dancers; a FREE night at La Reserve and a FREE (really!) night for us and 6 guests of our choosing at Privee. Unbelievable. Also a free spa treatment of our choosing. TA paid the auto gratuity. We tipped our amazing butler extra and went away wondering what it was that rated us such amazing perks. It was our FIRST O cruise. Needless to say, that's why we are returning. BTW, we researched and found that Prestige Tranquility Bed and now sleep on it every night! Sounds lovely. But, have you sailed on Regent? Apparently some people on this thread are interested in knowing which is better. IMO, it is difficult to compare two different experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChatKat in Ca. Posted October 14, 2011 #71 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I think the only fair way to compare both lines is to have sailed on them and decide. If you prejudge, you'd be wrong. I think Oceania is a perfect line for the value. While I love my Regent Cruises, I really like many things about Oceania; Since shore excursions are now inlcuded in the Regent Fare, they've priced themselves out of budget for us. For the first time since we're onboard an R Ship in a couple weeks, we don't anticipate making an onboard booking for a future cruise. We are moderate drinkers, we like exploring on our own and the value of Oceania is a better deal for us. We are also trying other avenues of travel that give us variety and luxury for reasonable pricing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findacruise Posted October 14, 2011 #72 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I think the only fair way to compare both lines is to have sailed on them and decide. If you prejudge, you'd be wrong. I think Oceania is a perfect line for the value. While I love my Regent Cruises, I really like many things about Oceania; Since shore excursions are now inlcuded in the Regent Fare, they've priced themselves out of budget for us. For the first time since we're onboard an R Ship in a couple weeks, we don't anticipate making an onboard booking for a future cruise. We are moderate drinkers, we like exploring on our own and the value of Oceania is a better deal for us. We are also trying other avenues of travel that give us variety and luxury for reasonable pricing. We have been on Oceania 6 times, the most recent on the Marina in March. We will be on our first Regent cruise November 28 and are excited about it. We look forward to being able to do our own comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare WesW Posted October 15, 2011 #73 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Fighter Pilot, pls let me know where u purchased a Prestige Tranquility Bed. Just got this note from FDR (CEO of Presige Cruise Holdings and founder of Oceania) Hi Wes: The Tranquility beds are built to our specs in Italy and to the best of my knowledge, are not available anywhere to the general public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelcat2 Posted October 15, 2011 #74 Share Posted October 15, 2011 We have been on Oceania 6 times, the most recent on the Marina in March. We will be on our first Regent cruise November 28 and are excited about it. We look forward to being able to do our own comparison. I look forward to hearing your comparison (hopefully on board). After taking approximately nine Regent cruises we tried Silversea. The first reaction was to compare every little thing. It took a few days to just sit back and enjoy the cruise. It ends up that there are some things that are better one one cruise line and some on the other. My heart is with Regent but I know now that there is a perfectly wonderful choice if the timing, price and itinerary are right. Fighter Pilot: In terms of mattresses in general, it really hard to find the exact match when going from place to place. Names change -- even if only the fabric used for the bed is different, the name will be. If you Google "Tranquility Bed" or "Tranquility Mattress", you'll find results. But, are they what PCH purchases? If FDR says they are not, I believe him:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findacruise Posted October 16, 2011 #75 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I look forward to hearing your comparison (hopefully on board). After taking approximately nine Regent cruises we tried Silversea. The first reaction was to compare every little thing. It took a few days to just sit back and enjoy the cruise. It ends up that there are some things that are better one one cruise line and some on the other. My heart is with Regent but I know now that there is a perfectly wonderful choice if the timing, price and itinerary are right. Yes, I hope not to get into every "little"thing. I know alreaady the cabin will surpass Oceania since we have had the veranda on Marina and not a penthouse and penthouse on "R" ship twice. We have wanted to do Regent but previously our price comparison had made it more expensive. But this cruise when compared to similar on Oceania next year with out the "includes" and the cheaper business class air made this a must for us. Hope to meet you on board to share, too. Joanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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