Why is CCL making it hard to tip?

[Sashalanda]

I hope they make it impossible to remove the autotips and then we'll stop hearing about the cheap people who don't want to tip at all. Cheap.

 

I couldnt agree more. Just for eating in the main dining room the tip you pay daily is actually probably less than the amount you would tip in same type diner...so...sorry this thread and others just like it scream out flippin cheap tightwads. If you want that personal touch..give them beautiful card with your words of gratitude and throw in an extra cash. That is personal..what you are stating are just excuses. These threads make me sick

[gnocchi_mommy]

All of these tipping threads are driving me crazy...lol. I do not think the auto tip is done as a "convenience" for the cruisers. I think it is done more out of experience....most cruise lines do the auto tip and I'm sure it is for a reason. They have probably learned from experience that this is the best way to "guarantee" that the people that deserve a tip actually get one. Working in the service industry, I have learned that there are some cultures that do not tip at all! No matter what the service they receive or the level of service that they receive. There are cultures of people that feel we were all put on Earth to serve them, so they do not tip. Having an auto tip system just ensures that those that do not normally tip pay their fair share for the servers, etc. that deserve a tip.

This is just my opinion and I personally will continue to pay the small auto tips and tip extra to those that go above and beyond.

 

Having spent time in Europe amongst these "cultures that feel we were put on earth to serve them" you're missing their cultural nom entirely- its not that service people are there to serve them out of the good of their heart, its that in their countries, places like Great Britain, servers are paid a living wage!! Its our AMERICAN system that pays servers well below minimum wage and necessitates tips to make that wage good.

 

Case in point- on the Carnival Spirit, once she relocates to Australia, there will no longer be tipping. The cruise fares will reflect this with higher rates, servers will be paid higher wages from them- because people do not tip in Australia. They pay a living wage instead.

[gnocchi_mommy]

I hope they make it impossible to remove the autotips and then we'll stop hearing about the cheap people who don't want to tip at all. Cheap.

 

They need to remove all tips, period. Pay service personnel a living wage and reflect that pay in higher cruise fares. Get rid of these ridiculous debates once and for all where some hold tips ransom at servers expense and others pretend they are better people for their higher tips. This is all so ridiculous and unnecessary.

[H82seaUgo]

I couldnt agree more. Just for eating in the main dining room the tip you pay daily is actually probably less than the amount you would tip in same type diner...so...sorry this thread and others just like it scream out flippin cheap tightwads. If you want that personal touch..give them beautiful card with your words of gratitude and throw in an extra cash. That is personal..what you are stating are just excuses. These threads make me sick

 

darlin'....the issue isn't even tipping in the dining room.

 

it's that your tips will now be going to entertainment, guest services, hotel staff, and in some cases, the maitr d'.

[nys1emt]

When you pull the gratuities from your Sign and Sail card, you do endanger the very people you are trying to help. Since the home office pretty much goes by accumulated data, it is presumed that the passenger(s) pulling the tips is unhappy. The waiter, his assistant, room steward and his assistant all are gigged for this. When it comes time for a new contract, those who have had this happen more than the norm may not be offered a new contract. That is fact. Expressions of dissatisfaction from the passengers are a major negative in the lives of the people who serve you.

 

If you remove your tips before you even cruise how is that gonna make someone lose their job? This above quote is totally ridiculous and is definitely scare tactics. No one is going to get fired because you take off the tips.

 

Actually, your post makes no sense since you can't remove tips before you cruise. You either prepay or you don't. If you don't, it gets charged to your S&S card the first day. At that point you have already been assigned to staff, whether in the MDR or at least your room steward, if you do YTD. So if removed, they can refer back to who you are assigned to.

[H82seaUgo]

Actually, your post makes no sense since you can't remove tips before you cruise. You either prepay or you don't. If you don't, it gets charged to your S&S card the first day. At that point you have already been assigned to staff, whether in the MDR or at least your room steward, if you do YTD. So if removed, they can refer back to who you are assigned to.

 

sure you can. visit guest services before the ship sets sail, before any service is rendered.

[sparks1093]

Having spent time in Europe amongst these "cultures that feel we were put on earth to serve them" you're missing their cultural nom entirely- its not that service people are there to serve them out of the good of their heart, its that in their countries, places like Great Britain, servers are paid a living wage!! Its our AMERICAN system that pays servers well below minimum wage and necessitates tips to make that wage good.

 

Case in point- on the Carnival Spirit, once she relocates to Australia, there will no longer be tipping. The cruise fares will reflect this with higher rates, servers will be paid higher wages from them- because people do not tip in Australia. They pay a living wage instead.

 

Define for me please living wage? Under our American system yes, certain service employees may indeed be paid less then minimum wage BUT if they do not receive enough in tips to average at least minimum wage then the employer is required to make up the difference. Staff at upscale establishments that work for tips make very decent money working for tips. The staff on many cruise ships are making 3 times or more what they would be able to earn in their home country.

[sparks1093]

darlin'....the issue isn't even tipping in the dining room.

 

it's that your tips will now be going to entertainment, guest services, hotel staff, and in some cases, the maitr d'.

 

While I'm working my employer can have me do quite a lot of things completely unrelated to what my job or job description (other duties as assigned). If they choose to they could have me clean the carpets or the windows or whatever. However, if my work day is done and they wanted me to do those things then they would have to pay me more. So if the entertainment staff is being asked to do something that is both outside their normal job duties and outside their normal hours then they should be compensated more:).

[H82seaUgo]

While I'm working my employer can have me do quite a lot of things completely unrelated to what my job or job description (other duties as assigned). If they choose to they could have me clean the carpets or the windows or whatever. However, if my work day is done and they wanted me to do those things then they would have to pay me more. So if the entertainment staff is being asked to do something that is both outside their normal job duties and outside their normal hours then they should be compensated more:).

 

if that's in their contract, yes.

 

places i have worked, that compensation was at time and a half. and usually because we were caught understaffed, exceedingly busy, or some special circumstance.

 

but income rates never were set to cover these things. we never charged our customers more for it.

[sparks1093]

if that's in their contract, yes.

 

places i have worked, that compensation was at time and a half. and usually because we were caught understaffed, exceedingly busy, or some special circumstance.

 

but income rates never were set to cover these things. we never charged our customers more for it.

 

Oh, the customer may not have been charged directly for it, but I'm sure at some point they picked it up;). I'm sure that CCL could have raised the impacted crewmember's compensation by raising their base salary and passing on to us in increased fares, but as a lot of the extra work is done on an as needed basis it would be foolish of them to do it that way. Instead they give the impacted crew members a (small) share of the $2 when they actually perform those extra duties.

[cruisecruisecruise2011]

Oh, the customer may not have been charged directly for it, but I'm sure at some point they picked it up;). I'm sure that CCL could have raised the impacted crewmember's compensation by raising their base salary and passing on to us in increased fares, but as a lot of the extra work is done on an as needed basis it would be foolish of them to do it that way. Instead they give the impacted crew members a (small) share of the $2 when they actually perform those extra duties.

 

So what happens to the money when they don't perform those extra duties?

Does it sit in an account or do the potatoe peelers get an extra 10 cents or is it going to the Matre'd who is salaried and tipped?

[Indianaseadog]

Oh OP! How I wish I had your life. To have nothing else to do than start 50 different threads on the same beat to death topic. Must be nice not to have anything else in your life to worry about....but then again maybe not.

[ferfoodle]

Your kidding right?

 

Lets see 3000 people for a 7 day cruise using autotip creates less paper waste? Each person will have a line item on the weekly bill.Each steward,waiter,and assistant waiter will receive pages of accounting on their behalf.The non tippers list takes up more paper,the credit card transactions alone between the cruiseline charge to your paper statement to the accounting department of CCL to each floor supervisor and head housekeeping and head waiters and the paper trail goes on and on like this sentance.

 

Cash in envelope,no other paper trail!

 

Nope - not kidding. The paper trails you mention above will still exist regardless of the method of tipping. Granted, if tipping style reverted to days of the envelope, the non-tippers list would be eliminated. Cash in the envelope; I still get my on board detailed inovice, the Cruiseline still sends a bottom dollar amount electronically to my credit card company, the workers still receive income statements. I don't know, but am guessing that back in the day the workers still reported their tip amounts (give or take some I am sure) to the employer and this was noted. Besides, the cost of an envelope is more than the cost of a piece of paper.

 

But, you can remove the auto tips at your desire, you have that option. I choose not to. Too much effort IMO - did the old way with envelopes and hated it. Love the auto tips.

[sparks1093]

So what happens to the money when they don't perform those extra duties?

Does it sit in an account or do the potatoe peelers get an extra 10 cents or is it going to the Matre'd who is salaried and tipped?

 

I ran the numbers for my trip on the Pride next year. If the ship sail full and if the $2 is evenly split among every crewmember onboard the most that will be earned is $32 a week extra. So even if that is the case (which I don't believe it is) it's not like the crewmembers have hit the lottery.

 

And there are always extra duties to be performed onboard ship. It's not like they can bring in temps when there is work to be done.

[cruisecruisecruise2011]

Oh OP! How I wish I had your life. To have nothing else to do than start 50 different threads on the same beat to death topic. Must be nice not to have anything else in your life to worry about....but then again maybe not.

 

It is.

[cruisecruisecruise2011]

I ran the numbers for my trip on the Pride next year. If the ship sail full and if the $2 is evenly split among every crewmember onboard the most that will be earned is $32 a week extra. So even if that is the case (which I don't believe it is) it's not like the crewmembers have hit the lottery.

 

And there are always extra duties to be performed onboard ship. It's not like they can bring in temps when there is work to be done.

 

So why not increase the fare by $10.50?

[sparks1093]

So why not increase the fare by $10.50?

 

Because they chose not to. It's their business and they get to choose how to run it. If you don't like the way that they run their business you are of course free to take your business elsewhere. But if you remove anything from the tips and punish the crew because of your personal feelings for the company, well, board etiquette keeps me from finishing that sentence:).

[timetogosoon]

This guy posts way too much stuff that causes drama... I personally think tipping is supposed to be a reward for exceptional service. Not a requirement. If they want to pay their employees more, I would want them to put that price into the fare of the cruise, and allow tipping to remain voluntary and for exceptional service.

 

I noticed that unless we were tipping cash on top of our already automatic tips, then I was not getting exceptional service, only mediocre at best.

[maggieworkman]

Personally, I like the way the auto-tips are now compared to the envelope system. It used to be so confusing getting the right bills, etc. for tipping at the end. I remember using a tip calculator that told you how many of each bill ($5, $10, $20, etc.) to bring. Then I would have to go to the bank and ask for the right amount of each before the cruise. It took a lot of work! The way it is now, I have the tips covered and can tip anyone extra who goes above and beyond. But I don't have to worry about which bills to bring! (Although I still go and get lots of $1 to tip room service and hotel bellhops, etc.)

 

Maggie

[cruisecruisecruise2011]

This guy posts way too much stuff that causes drama... I personally think tipping is supposed to be a reward for exceptional service. Not a requirement. If they want to pay their employees more, I would want them to put that price into the fare of the cruise, and allow tipping to remain voluntary and for exceptional service.

 

I noticed that unless we were tipping cash on top of our already automatic tips, then I was not getting exceptional service, only mediocre at best.

 

Thus the problem with an autotip.When its auto,why work harder.

[timetogosoon]

That was my complaint with automatic tips. If we weren't paying extra, then service was bare minimum

[Smart Arsenal Fan]

I'm guessing it's Heald's blog. :D

 

As for the previous post, when amending/removing tips I know they ask for comments or reasons as to the change. That's the time explain...

 

No sorry, my bad for not quoting it correctly... my apologies,

 

No, just from another poster from a previous thread...

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=30687983&postcount=61

 

I just thought it is an excellent point.

[gnocchi_mommy]

Define for me please living wage? Under our American system yes, certain service employees may indeed be paid less then minimum wage BUT if they do not receive enough in tips to average at least minimum wage then the employer is required to make up the difference. Staff at upscale establishments that work for tips make very decent money working for tips. The staff on many cruise ships are making 3 times or more what they would be able to earn in their home country.

 

You have CLEARLY never worked in the hospitality industry. As a former waitress, cocktail waitress, and bartender I can assure you no employer out there actually pays the difference on a slow day when tips do not meet minimum wage. It doesn't happen. Yes in America staff make good money at upscale places- in TIPS. In some other countries, staff make good money as well- in salary.

 

Cruise staff make that money either a) on ships that have tipping system or b) on ships that have removed such a tipping system and use a salary system. I never said they didn't make decent money- I am saying the person I quoted inferred the ONLY way to make that money is via tips when this is proven NOT to be the case in many parts of the world. The answer isn't tipping, the answer is ensuring a decent wage either via tips or via salary- and if tips are going to be such a contentious issue then do what they already do on some lines and some itineraries and just remove the tipping system altogether and base it on salary.

[gnocchi_mommy]

Because they chose not to. It's their business and they get to choose how to run it. If you don't like the way that they run their business you are of course free to take your business elsewhere. But if you remove anything from the tips and punish the crew because of your personal feelings for the company, well, board etiquette keeps me from finishing that sentence:).

 

Another option said poster has if they don't like how they choose to run their business- is to complain. Here, on JHs blog, to the Carnival powers that be, or to their neighbors 12 yr old son. Lets not pretend the ONLY option is taking business elsewhere. And lets also not pretend Carnival has never changed a policy before based on customer reactions and complaints.

 

 

Complain away OP!

[sparks1093]

You have CLEARLY never worked in the hospitality industry. As a former waitress, cocktail waitress, and bartender I can assure you no employer out there actually pays the difference on a slow day when tips do not meet minimum wage. It doesn't happen. Yes in America staff make good money at upscale places- in TIPS. In some other countries, staff make good money as well- in salary.

 

Cruise staff make that money either a) on ships that have tipping system or b) on ships that have removed such a tipping system and use a salary system. I never said they didn't make decent money- I am saying the person I quoted inferred the ONLY way to make that money is via tips when this is proven NOT to be the case in many parts of the world. The answer isn't tipping, the answer is ensuring a decent wage either via tips or via salary- and if tips are going to be such a contentious issue then do what they already do on some lines and some itineraries and just remove the tipping system altogether and base it on salary.

 

I haven't reviewed that section of the law lately but I don't believe that the employer is required to make up a difference on a daily basis, but rather on a pay period basis. As for your assumption about me not working in the service industry, well, you know what they say about assuming something;). If I misread your original post I apologize.

 

Another option said poster has if they don't like how they choose to run their business- is to complain. Here, on JHs blog, to the Carnival powers that be, or to their neighbors 12 yr old son. Lets not pretend the ONLY option is taking business elsewhere. And lets also not pretend Carnival has never changed a policy before based on customer reactions and complaints.

 

 

Complain away OP!

 

Spamming an internet message board is sure to get CCL's attention for sure;).