Costa Ship grounded or sinking

[kywildcatfanone]

The newest statement from Costa blames the Captain.

 

You can read it on their website site. Just click the logo and the page about the Concordia will come up.

 

It will be interesting to see how this develops. The reports I have read say that he went off course a bit getting too close to the shoreline, and then abandoned the ship before all passengers and crew were accounted for.

 

Mike

[paul929207]

No surprise.

[karatemom2]

of course....he took the helm the other day with total intention of ruining the vacations of 3000 people.. :rolleyes:

 

I doubt that is the case, but all indications seem to be pointing to the fact that he was derelict in his duties as a Captain responsible for the safety and well-being of thousands of people. It appears that he made a mistake and then likely compounded that mistake by running away instead of staying at his post and doing everything in his power to make sure all passengers were safely off of a sinking ship.

[Carolyn R]

From the current NY Times article:

 

Asked on television on Sunday about allegations that the captain had left the ship before the last passenger had been rescued, Francesco Verusio, the prosecutor in Grosseto, said that that had happened. “Unfortunately, I must confirm that circumstance,” he added.

 

Report after report seem to indicate that the Captain left his post prematurely. When all of the information comes to light I am doubtful that his actions will in any way earn him the title of "hero".

 

That indeed may be true. It was just a thought, the hero part I mean. However, I think that it was very fortunate for the passengers that the ship keeled over in shallow water.

[RickEk]

More voices have been heard from inside the ship.

 

Another thought: Although the captain may have been at fault initially he may turn out to be a hero in another way. After realizing the extent of the damage and the implications he may have continued to sail to shallow waters rather than fully capsize in deep water with many, many lives lost.

 

True, but accounts have shown that the ship originally listed in the direction of the original damage and then listed to the other side when the Captain ran it aground near Giglio. It's quite possible (and, of course, complete speculation on my part) that the ship would have stayed upright even with the extensive damage to its side had it not been run aground. And that would have made deploying the lifeboats easier... but who knows..

[6pack]

Ships owners make statement, captain may have committed errors"

 

 

 

http://http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16570281

[Pam in CA]

of course....he took the helm the other day with total intention of ruining the vacations of 3000 people.. :rolleyes:

In one article I read, it's apparently not unheard of for ships to do a "drive by" the island, particularly if an officer has family living or visiting there. So, it's very possible he did intentionally go too close to the island. Time will tell if that was the case but as it's been done before, it makes some sense.

 

The person who identified the Captain leaving early is a French naval officer who was on vacation. He wouldn't have mistaken the Captain for the Maitre d', for instance. The observer said the Captain was in a boat, hiding under a blanket and afterwards, was standing on the dock during the rescue operations. His fellow officers urged him to go back to the ship but he refused. For Costa to come out and say publicly that the accident was a result of human error is very surprising and telling.

[R+G]

One report on TV this morning was asking the question "how could a modern cruise ship tip over". Isn't the Concordia sitting on the sea bed now though? In which case the captain has probably taken the best course of action?

[Astro Flyer]

While still preliminary, the reports about the cause are becoming clearer & it appears that the captain created the situation leading to this tragedy. Even Costa has enough evidence to place the blame on the captain. Some may believe that it's merely Costa passing the blame to him & not on the company. However after reading various accounts of the tragedy, unless it was a navigation or mechanical malfunction then "human error" by the captain & his staff appears to be to blame. Just like any accident...flying, driiving, etc...there is a chain of events that leads up to an accident which is either human error or a mechanical malfunction. With the captain abandoning the ship before the rescue operation was completed & not declaring a mayday, even if strikng the rock wasn't his fault then his reaction to the situation was still very questionable. Whether on the water or in the air, the captain has the ultimate responsibility for the safe operation of a ship or aircraft. Sadly, it appears more & more like the captain failed miserably in the completion of his duties.

 

Costa's current statement:

 

We are working with investigators to find out precisely what went wrong aboard the Costa Concordia. While the investigation is ongoing, preliminary indications are that there may have been significant human error on the part of the ship’s master, Captain Francesco Schettino, which resulted in these grave consequences. The route of the vessel appears to have been too close to the shore, and in handling the emergency the captain appears not to have followed standard Costa procedures. We are aware that the lead Prosecutor has leveled serious accusations against the ship’s captain, who joined Costa Crociere in 2002 as a safety officer and was appointed captain in 2006.

[6pack]

The comments were more focusing on not following established emergency procedures. I guess you can read into this a number of things, however I believe they were referencing the delay in which it took to order an evacuation. Again, this is my opinion but if water is pouring into the ship through a 30+ meter gash one would think the quicker you could get everyone off the better. Delaying this decision makes absolutely no sense to me.

[Katelab]

I have not posted in a while

 

But, the cruise lines need to design and build simulators. Good simulators will cost several million for each class of ship. The advantage is a captain or lowly new officer will be able to experience catastrophic failures and collisions and then learn how to handle them. This captain did not understand how to handle this event.

 

My brother in law runs a simulator for pilots and routinely plays with these guys minds by disabling their engines near the airport. They frequently do not understand how they can easily land the plane the first time, but once they get it they ALWAYS land the plane safely.

 

Simulators were not an option 100 years ago, but things have changed and captains are now responsible for 4000+ passengers and crew.

 

Simulators should be REQUIRED for ALL officers on a ship.

[Roses2]

This article (if accurate) appears to support the earlier contention on the Costa board that the Captain of the Costa ship deviated from the normal course to sail-by and salute Giglio Island as he had done in the past.

 

The article reports that folks from the island had gathered to watch the sail-by.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9016774/Italy-cruise-ship-disaster-did-island-sail-past-put-ship-on-course-for-disaster.html

[caribill]

Costa's current statement:

 

We are working with investigators to find out precisely what went wrong aboard the Costa Concordia. While the investigation is ongoing, preliminary indications are that there may have been significant human error on the part of the ship’s master, Captain Francesco Schettino, which resulted in these grave consequences. The route of the vessel appears to have been too close to the shore, and in handling the emergency the captain appears not to have followed standard Costa procedures. We are aware that the lead Prosecutor has leveled serious accusations against the ship’s captain, who joined Costa Crociere in 2002 as a safety officer and was appointed captain in 2006.

 

In other words, "Do not sue us. Not our fault. Do not blame us."

[Astro Flyer]

I have not posted in a while

 

But, the cruise lines need to design and build simulators. Good simulators will cost several million for each class of ship. The advantage is a captain or lowly new officer will be able to experience catastrophic failures and collisions and then learn how to handle them. This captain did not understand how to handle this event.

 

My brother in law runs a simulator for pilots and routinely plays with these guys minds by disabling their engines near the airport. They frequently do not understand how they can easily land the plane the first time, but once they get it they ALWAYS land the plane safely.

 

Simulators were not an option 100 years ago, but things have changed and captains are now responsible for 4000+ passengers and crew.

 

Simulators should be REQUIRED for ALL officers on a ship.

I seem to recall reading that they do use simulators for ships to provide training which should be required just like pilots to prepare for rarely encountered emergency situations. That training is so essential because when things go wrong it's not always possible to read instructional manuals...quickly reacting properly to an emergency is a matter of life or death.

[6pack]

In one article I read, it's apparently not unheard of for ships to do a "drive by" the island, particularly if an officer has family living or visiting there. So, it's very possible he did intentionally go too close to the island. Time will tell if that was the case but as it's been done before, it makes some sense.

 

The person who identified the Captain leaving early is a French naval officer who was on vacation. He wouldn't have mistaken the Captain for the Maitre d', for instance. The observer said the Captain was in a boat, hiding under a blanket and afterwards, was standing on the dock during the rescue operations. His fellow officers urged him to go back to the ship but he refused. For Costa to come out and say publicly that the accident was a result of human error is very surprising and telling.

 

After reading this article, it really sickens me! This would be the same as a commercial pilot "buzzing" his buddies house. Attaching the article for others to view: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9016774/Italy-cruise-ship-disaster-did-island-sail-past-put-ship-on-course-for-disaster.html

[Katelab]

I seem to recall reading that they do use simulators for ships to provide training which should be required just like for pilots to prepare for emergency situations. That training is so essential because when things go wrong it's not always possible to read instructional manuals...quickly reacting to a situation is a matter of life or death.

 

Do they really run these captains through the ringer? Are they good simulators?

 

Better more intensive training is required from my initial readings. I would be much more in favor of better training than simply blaming this captain and putting him in jail for ever (not that I think he should go free either).

 

My interest is in prevention of future loss of life. especially mine and my DW:cool:

[shepp]

In other words, "Do not sue us. Not our fault. Do not blame us."

 

Well really, unless there was inadequate maintenance of the navigational system or the like (or the captain was a known drunkard and they hired him anyway), it's hard to imagine how this could have been the line's fault.

[RickEk]

Do they really run these captains through the ringer? Are they good simulators?

 

Better more intensive training is required from my initial readings. I would be much more in favor of better training than simply blaming this captain and putting him in jail for ever (not that I think he should go free either).

 

My interest is in prevention of future loss of life. especially mine and my DW:cool:

 

I've seen documentaries that show cruise ship simulators. They seem fairly extensive with many different scenarios, but probably aren't as "3-dimensional" as flight simulators.

[Astro Flyer]

Do they really run these captains through the ringer? Are they good simulators?

 

I've seen documentaries that show cruise ship simulators. They seem fairly extensive with many different scenarios, but probably aren't as "3-dimensional" as flight simulators.

I searched on this subject & found a BBC article on cruise ship simulators & here are a few quotes which show they have them for routine & emergency situations so they are available & hopefully are used by all cruise lines. If a bad decision is made to do a close 'sail by' of a reef surrounded island is made, that's probably not in a simulator but 'human error'.

 

"It's easy to forget that sailors are in an industrial estate.

 

"It's also easy to forget that the floor is firmly fixed to the ground; visitors find themselves swaying to what they think is the motion of the ship."

 

Commodore Steve Burgoine, the most senior captain in the P&O Cruises fleet, said: "We can train officers to deal with every kind of situation.

 

"Engine failure, fire, shallow waters and berthing in a difficult port during a storm - we can test people more safely and more cheaply here than out at sea.

 

"And for new officers, it means they can be familiar with the bridge before they arrive to do the job for real."

 

Officers will travel from all over the world to attend training courses, and the priority was a location more easily accessible than the south coast of England.

 

"It is really a big video game," said Mark Ghiglino, a junior officer from Italy.

 

"It is realistic and good for training, but of course it is not the same as standing on the ship. You cannot feel what is happening."

 

P&O Cruises believes the simulator is the most sophisticated in the world, requiring 200 computers and banks of video screens to operate it.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hampshire/8388338.stm

[caribill]

But, the cruise lines need to design and build simulators. Good simulators will cost several million for each class of ship. The advantage is a captain or lowly new officer will be able to experience catastrophic failures and collisions and then learn how to handle them. This captain did not understand how to handle this event.

 

 

Simulators are only as good as the software that humans write to cover all possible known emergencies.

 

I doubt, for example, that a simulator if one had existed would have done any good for the Titanic as it was "unsinkable" until a situation occurred that nobody had ever anticipated

[lynwar]

Hi

I'm sure that in the short term, like within this next two weeks, at least, the Captains on the ships we'll be on (we'll be on the Ruby Princess next week) will have to be prepared on how a tragedy like this would be handled. The crew training will include a situation like this and the muster drill staff might need to be prepared for questions

Most of us have attended the drills as our first necessary event before the cruise actually begins, and haven't overly listened. The idea of that zip lock bag sounds pretty good, too.

 

Our hearts go out to those passengers and staff involved in the recent catastrophe.

Thanks for all the information shared here. We have been following it on the internet and TV and appreciate the updates and explanations.

 

Lynne

[caribill]

it's hard to imagine how this could have been the line's fault.

 

Do not underestimate the imagination capabilities of lawyers.

[Katelab]

Simulators are only as good as the software that humans write to cover all possible known emergencies.

 

I doubt, for example, that a simulator if one had existed would have done any good for the Titanic as it was "unsinkable" until a situation occurred that nobody had ever anticipated

 

Yes but we are not as naive as we use to be.

 

If they wanted to write simulators to cover major collisions and taking on water, power outages, weather, etc. etc. they could.

 

I think more and better training is needed. If you wish to disagree and think less and poorer training is OK you are entitled to your opinion. But from my personal experience with NASA and the Air Force I can tell you more and better is preferred.

[Astro Flyer]

In other words, "Do not sue us. Not our fault. Do not blame us."

 

After reading this article, it really sickens me! This would be the same as a commercial pilot "buzzing" his buddies house. Attaching the article for others to view: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9016774/Italy-cruise-ship-disaster-did-island-sail-past-put-ship-on-course-for-disaster.html

Try reading this article before you accuse Costa of putting the blame on the captain as a way to say "Do not sue us. Not our fault. Do not blame us.". A captain of a ship should not be doing such risky things & that I would BLAME on the captain & not on Costa. :rolleyes:

[kywildcatfanone]

As this story continues to develop, it looks more and more like human error was to blame. That is a real shame and something I would not have thought could occur and completely avoidable.

I know the Captain is the ultimate authority, but aren't there several officers who participate in the conversation about changing the course of the ship, in this case moving closer to shore than normal?

 

Mike