norovirus--what would you do

[janice2348]

see previous note about lightning!!

 

 

 

This is an excellent point and I think this is what i would do too in this situation--as long as I didn't need a batroom;)!!

On a trip to Ireland I caught the flu and had to send for the hotel doctor. Missed the blarney stone but was too sick to move. If you truly have norovirus I doubt you'd be able to go ashore. But I guess everyone is different. I would stay in my cabin but that's me. Some people are just selfish.

[RMLincoln]

I carry a very small container of hand sanitizer with me and make a point of using it at the table before i eat anything, both in the buffet and the MDR (after giving back the menu). It may not be scientifically proven that this helps but it makes me feel better, especailly when I find myself touching my face. So far, so good. :) m--

[sail7seas]

We were on a ship some years ago that had just come out of Code Red the cruise ahead of ours. We were sitting at Casino Bar with Guest Relations Manager having a nice conversation. I went to the rest room, returned to the bar with my newly washed hands and as I went to sit again on the bar stool, the ship lurched. Instinct had me reach out my newly washed hands to steady myself on the edge of the bar. My hand was now 'dirty'. It's that simple and that hard.

Our GRM friend looked and said, "You see how hard it is to quelch these outbreaks.' It's a moving ship; of course, you put out your hand to steady yourself. No one wants anyone falling.

 

It is almost impossible to not touch any surface with your bare hand. What we must make effort is to not touch our eyes, nose, or mouth.

 

[mafig]

anyone know how long these viruses are "alive" on hard surfaces?

[Watson's aunt]

I am from Massachusetts one of the towns has a outbreak. the local hospital because of so many people ggoing there. has it as every thing on tow

em.

[SwissMyst]

I'm sorry, I don't understand your "huh?" What part of shedding the virus don't you understand?

 

Ricki

 

What part of putting that shed virus into your own system do you still not understand.:confused: There are two parts to this disease transmission equation. Too often the emphasis is put on only picking up the "shed" bug and not enough about transferring that bug into your own eyes, mouth and/or nose

 

This is a bug two-step. And while any stranger can shed the bug anywhere, only YOU can put it into your body. Even sneezes do not contaminate much more than a few feet for the upper respiratory bug illnesses. But noro on hands still has step two to accomplish anything pathological - the insertion of your own dirty hands/fingers into eyes, nose and/or mouth.

 

Let's keep talking about this. I also recommend the excellent book ACHOO, which gives a lot of data and science about the cold virus and its myths, which applies to many viral transmission pathways as well.

[kazu]

What part of putting that shed virus into your own system do you still not understand.:confused: There are two parts to this disease transmission equation. Too often the emphasis is put on only picking up the "shed" bug and not enough about transferring that bug into your own eyes, mouth and/or nose

 

This is a bug two-step. And while any stranger can shed the bug anywhere, only YOU can put it into your body. Even sneezes do not contaminate much more than a few feet for the upper respiratory bug illnesses. But noro on hands still has step two to accomplish anything pathological - the insertion of your own dirty hands/fingers into eyes, nose and/or mouth.

 

Let's keep talking about this. I also recommend the excellent book ACHOO, which gives a lot of data and science about the cold virus and its myths, which applies to many viral transmission pathways as well.

 

 

Sorry Swiss Myst - a few feet with a sneeze on a tour bus loaded with passengers will spread the bug in a second - no question about it.

 

Part of the reason we don't do HAL tours is not just to be herded like cattle but to avoid this risk. Go ahead, flame me or argue all you want. Dh is a physician - and I'll take his word over how to avoid it over anyones's :D

 

We have never gotten it, very careful, yes we wash our hands, but I firmly believe through unfortunate experience that there is more involved than that.

 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.;)

[SwissMyst]

anyone know how long these viruses are "alive" on hard surfaces?

 

It depends. The book ACHOO has all the science about virus transmission, as well as the myths. Again, when the emphasis is on the contaminated surface and not one's self being the vector to one's own own eyes, mouth and/or nose a big part of the disease transmission route is ignored.

[SwissMyst]

Sorry Swiss Myst - a few feet with a sneeze on a tour bus loaded with passengers will spread the bug in a second - no question about it.

..........

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.;)

 

I'll take the multiple points of science and studies found in the book ACHOO and that is my final offer.:p (A thoroughly fascinating read.)

Missing the punch line here, but a (ahem) germane little 2 minute video: http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-sneezing-for-science.html

[luxurysailer]

I had what I assume was noro several years ago, two days before a cruise ended. I don't believe I've ever been that ill before or since. My wife "saved my life." We made it home two days later, sweating whether or not she'd get sick. Thirty minutes after we got home she became ill. I gave her a phenergan suppository followed by immodium about thirty minutes later. She slept for about twelve hours and awakened symptom free.

 

Lesson we learned from this: we never travel without suppositories for N&V and immodium. We were horrified about what would have happened had she gotten ill on an en route, especially on an airplane.

[bphman]

I recently read that they expect to have a vaccine for norovirus in 4 to 5 years. I din't know for how long you would be protected but it may be a good idea to take it before traveling. We recently were on Oceania and the staff served the buffet items which was the same experience we had on our first Maasdam cruise. I don't really think it would be a big deal. Interestingly, salt and pepper shakers and any other items on the table have been shown to have some of the highest viral and bacterial loads in a restaurant.

[SwissMyst]

Center for Disease Control provides thorough information about noro-virus. List of products for its control: http://www.epa.gov/oppad001/list_g_norovirus.pdf

 

Plain old household bleach in water in proper amounts seems to be a first line surface decontamination defense. Watch out for spread aerosol vomitus when caring for a noro-virus victim. Yech. Otherwise, wash your hands and don't put your fingers in your mouth.

[SwissMyst]

I recently read that they expect to have a vaccine for norovirus in 4 to 5 years. I din't know for how long you would be protected but it may be a good idea to take it before traveling. We recently were on Oceania and the staff served the buffet items which was the same experience we had on our first Maasdam cruise. I don't really think it would be a big deal. Interestingly, salt and pepper shakers and any other items on the table have been shown to have some of the highest viral and bacterial loads in a restaurant.

 

From the net: Univ of Virginia is a leading US research center for viral transmission:

 

If someone in your home has the common cold, you could catch it from them by simply touching the remote control. A study was conducted at the University of Virginia and they have been widely known for their reseach in Virology.

 

In their study they had 30 adults that had early signs of colds and 16 of them did have Rhinovirus, which is responsible for 50% of all colds. They gave a list of 10 items in their house they had touched in the last 18 hours and scientists tested those items for the DNA of Rhinovirus.

 

Almost everything they tested, including salt and pepper shakers, bathroom faucets, phones, doorknobs, and light switches had been contaminated. The scientists discovered that common household items were infected 40% of the time.

 

In the second part of the study they smeared germs on those surfacs and the 16 individuals were asked to go about their day normally 48 after the items had been contaminated. Their fingertips were covered with the germs when tested. they also tested toys at doctors offices and after a year there will still traces of the germs but they have not yet worked out if they can make a person sick. Hand sanitizers, masks and hanswashing helps prevent this transfer.

 

Does someone in your home have the sniffles? If so, beware of doorknobs and the TV remote control. A recent study found that cold sufferers often leave their germs on common household surfaces. There, the study showed, viruses can live for two days—or longer.

 

The two-part study was designed at the University of Virginia. The school has long been recognized for its research into a branch of science called virology. The study attempted to learn more about germs. It also aimed to lay the groundwork for future research into methods for stopping the infectious viruses. To conduct their research, scientists tested various surfaces in the homes of people suffering from colds.

 

In the first part of the study, scientists gathered 30 adults who displayed early signs of colds. Testing later discovered that 16 of the 30 had been infected with rhinovirus. This virus is responsible for about half of all colds. The 16 people were asked to list 10 places in their homes that they had touched in the previous 18 hours. Scientists then used DNA tests to hunt for rhinovirus in those locations.

 

Scientists didn’t have to search too carefully to find what they were looking for. Germs were everywhere. All three of the salt and pepper shakers they tested were contaminated with the rhinovirus. So were 8 of 10 bathroom faucets, 3 of 4 dishwasher handles, and 6 of 10 remote controls. In addition, 8 of 14 refrigerator handles, 4 of 7 telephones, 6 of 18 doorknobs, and 3 of 13 light switches tested were also found to be harboring the virus.

 

“We found that commonly touched areas like refrigerator doors and handles [tested] positive [for cold germs] about 40 percent of the time,” said Dr. Birgit Winther. Winther is an ear, nose, and throat specialist. She helped with the research.

 

For the second part of the study, scientists attempted to determine how long the viruses remained on the household surfaces. To do this, scientists smeared various household surfaces with the people’s germs. They then tested to see whether rhinovirus stuck to their fingers.

 

The 16 adults went about their day as usual. They turned on lights. They answered the telephone. More than half of the people got the virus on their fingertips. This was 48 hours after the surfaces had been contaminated with the germs.

 

To some experts, these results were not surprising. Last year, during the cold and flu season, Dr. Diane Pappas and Dr. Owen Hendley went germ-hunting. They examined toys in the offices of five pediatricians. Their tests uncovered traces of cold viruses. In fact, 20 percent of the toys they tested harbored germs.

 

These days-old viruses live on surfaces. They are proven to be transferable. Are they still powerful enough, however, to cause someone to become sick? Dr. Paul Auwaerter is an infectious-diseases specialist at Johns Hopkins University. According to Auwaerter, no proof exists that the traces of older viruses themselves can infect. He recognizes, however, that their presence does suggest that it’s a risk worthy of concern.

 

Until further research is done, doctors say that people should try to protect themselves from becoming infected. Some experts recommend the use of hand sanitizers or face masks.

 

They point to a University of Michigan study. The study followed 1,000 students for six weeks. The students were divided into three groups. One group wore masks, the second group wore masks and used hand sanitizer, and the third group did neither. The two groups who used masks reported 10 percent to 50 percent fewer signs of colds than the group that took neither preventative measure.

 

Hand sanitizers and masks appear to help prevent infection. However, doctors remind that frequent hand washing will go a long way toward preventing the spread of germs in the first place.

[TiogaCruiser]

"Virus Transmission

 

Noroviruses are transmitted primarily through the fecal-oral route, either by consumption of fecally contaminated food or water or by direct person-to-person spread. Environmental and fomite contamination may also act as a source of infection. Good evidence exists for transmission due to aerosolization of vomitus that presumably results in droplets contaminating surfaces or entering the oral mucosa and being swallowed. No evidence suggests that infection occurs through the respiratory system."

 

Other viruses ( and bacteria) can be transmitted via respiratory system (ie: coughing/sneezing). Note the example above about aerolization did not arise from the lungs but the stomach/ mouth.) Noro is fecal-oral with or without "assistance". I'll stop at that so as not to get much grosser.

 

CDC on how tough these viruses are: from the Noro facts wet for foodhanlers:"prevention of foodborne norovirus disease is based on the provision of safe food and water. Noroviruses are relatively resistant to environmental challenge: they are able to survive freezing, temperatures as high as 60°C, and have even been associated with illness after being steamed in shellfish. Moreover, noroviruses can survive in up to 10 ppm chlorine, well in excess of levels routinely present in public water systems."

[kazu]

all I know is that when we got off the Nieuw Amsterdam, if you hadn't had noro, you had a bad cold.

 

We escaped both.

 

There is such a thing as building up immunity. I'm not saying not to wash your hands - but you do need to build up immunity and that means you do get exposed to some germs and don't sanitize everything in your home to the nth degree;) There is no right or wrong answer to this, but the more your body has built up antibodies, the better off you are:D

 

Fair winds and following seas to all:D and may none of us sail on a ship with it :)

[bphman]

The immunity is very transient. Same as the cold virus. No long term immunity. Cannot agree with Kazu. Fortunately, noro is generally a relatively benign disease but you can really be miserable.

[sail7seas]

Is it absolutely proven science noro like virus is not transmitted through air/sneezing/coughing?

 

[SwissMyst]

Is it absolutely proven science noro like virus is not transmitted through air/sneezing/coughing?

 

 

Not sure if there is a definitive noro-study as the rhino-viruses are the most studied (the common cold) and even they apparently do not have much range when expelled in a sneeze.

 

One study back in 1979 on an airline found one sick passenger infected multiple other passengers, but since then the air filtration systems have been vastly improved so the threat of just "something in the air" now drops pretty much to zero ...according to what I have been reading and posting links here.

 

One link did say you would need to get some sort of aerosol noro contaminate projections into your stomach, and not your lungs, to get sick. You would need to swallow it, not breathe it in.

[Robin7]

Is it absolutely proven science noro like virus is not transmitted through air/sneezing/coughing?

 

 

I don't know if it's proven, but the CDC says, "No evidence suggests that infection occurs through the respiratory system." The rest of it is kind of...delicate.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/revb/gastro/norovirus-factsheet.htm

Robin

[sail7seas]

I don't know if it's proven, but the CDC says, "No evidence suggests that infection occurs through the respiratory system." The rest of it is kind of...delicate.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/revb/gastro/norovirus-factsheet.htm

 

Robin

 

 

Thanks.

It's something I have wondered about.

 

[ricki]

For those who asked if the norovirus can be transmitted via droplet, i.e. airborne, please see the following article and quote from it:

 

http://microbiology.mtsinai.on.ca/faq/norwalkfaq.shtml

 

"In some outbreaks, there is evidence that the virus may be spread by the airborne route. These viruses are very contagious and only a few are needed to cause an illness."

 

Ricki

[SwissMyst]

For those who asked if the norovirus can be transmitted via droplet, i.e. airborne, please see the following article and quote from it:

 

http://microbiology.mtsinai.on.ca/faq/norwalkfaq.shtml

 

"In some outbreaks, there is evidence that the virus may be spread by the airborne route. These viruses are very contagious and only a few are needed to cause an illness."

 

Ricki

 

As discussed from the CDC website, the "airborne" part is swallowed projectile vomitus. (You asked) Hopefully you will be albe to avoid this disease transmission route. Stay up wind. but luckily for most this seems to be only a few days sickness with full recovery. Bummer when it happens for sure, but only a minor set back.

[ariawoman]

all I know is that when we got off the Nieuw Amsterdam, if you hadn't had noro, you had a bad cold.

 

We escaped both.

 

There is such a thing as building up immunity. I'm not saying not to wash your hands - but you do need to build up immunity and that means you do get exposed to some germs and don't sanitize everything in your home to the nth degree;) There is no right or wrong answer to this, but the more your body has built up antibodies, the better off you are:D

 

Fair winds and following seas to all:D and may none of us sail on a ship with it :)

 

That was in 2010 right Kazu? I came off the NA right when you came on and a lot of people on my sailing had that cold, it was wretched! Stayed with me on land far beyond my vacation (which I did NOT let it ruin! lol).

 

I had what I believe was noro once. I flew down to St Louis from NJ and within a day of the flight, started to not feel well. It hit me hard and fast. I was out at a comedy club, and started to not feel well. I dismissed myself from the table and went to the rest room, was ill out one end, then thought ok, maybe my stomach was just upset by something and it's done. Went back into the club and sat down. Few minutes later...got really hot, sweaty, felt nauseous. Left the room again, attempted to make it to the bathroom but didn't, puked on a tree in Union Station LOL. Went back in and told my friends I was going to walk back home to the hotel (it was walking distance and i figured I'd be ok). They offered to come with and i insisted they stay behind. I walked back, and walked by a restaurant which had a strong smell of burgers cooking. Normally that would be YUM but it sent me into a tailspin, I nearly threw up instantly, but managed not to. Got to the hotel car port, proceeded to throw up again and also um...do something else simultaneously because the force of throwing up was so hard. That night was bad. I didn't know which end it was going to come from and sometimes it came from both simultaneously. I lost 15lbs in 2 days from that (great for the dieter!). I'd say it took it about 24 hours and then the vomitting and diarrhea stopped, but the weakness persisted for another day or so. Worst trip ever.

 

I've never had anything that bad (aside from pneumonia which is in a class in and of itself) since and hope to God that I never do again! I can't imagine wanting to go into port with that problem. I couldn't do anything by lay there, and expel things. LOL.

 

I can laugh now, 9 years later, but then, it wasn't so funny.

[scraplady]

My DH had it at home about 5 days after a hospital stay. It took him about 7 gays to get rid of it. No one else in the house got it, but I was very careful about sanitizing our home. I'd really hate to get it on a trip as bad as he had it. I'm a religious hand washer and keep them away from my face.

[sail7seas]

A major heart center in Boston, one that is often rated among the top five for the country, had to close one of it's floors for days when they had an out of control noro like virus outbreak. Imagine just having had open heart surgery and getting noro virus in the day or two after. :eek: It was the only way they could get that unit clean of the virus.