norovirus--what would you do

[SwissMyst]

Recent WSJ report found playing in the pathogen contaminated sand was a leading cause of illnesses, even more than swimming where there might be untreated sewage.

 

Could this be one of the major links for many of the noro-out breaks on the Caribbean cruises? And the reason ships have their own private islands so they can ensure no untreated sewage pollutes at least their own private beaches?

 

One needs to also pay attention when swimming in the ocean to try and keep as much water out of their mouths as possible, and not to swallow a drop of it. I know resort trips to Mexico would always end unhappily even though I paid attention to what I was eating and drinking, but not when I was swimming.

[WriterOnDeck]

Part of the reason we don't do HAL tours is not just to be herded like cattle but to avoid this risk.

 

I was most impressed on my 45-day Maasdam cruise last fall -- for every HAL tour, members of the ship's housekeeping crew cleaned all the surfaces of every tour bus with the ships disinfectant before we were allowed on the buses. Not perfect, but much better than what might have happened on private tours or in taxis, city buses, etc., imho.

[sail7seas]

I was most impressed on my 45-day Maasdam cruise last fall -- for every HAL tour, members of the ship's housekeeping crew cleaned all the surfaces of every tour bus with the ships disinfectant before we were allowed on the buses. Not perfect, but much better than what might have happened on private tours or in taxis, city buses, etc., imho.

 

 

That's so great to read. We don't do too many HAL tours so I did not know the ship's housekeeping department cleaned the buses. Wonderful!!

[kazu]

I was most impressed on my 45-day Maasdam cruise last fall -- for every HAL tour, members of the ship's housekeeping crew cleaned all the surfaces of every tour bus with the ships disinfectant before we were allowed on the buses. Not perfect, but much better than what might have happened on private tours or in taxis, city buses, etc., imho.

 

 

I saw them scrubbing the buses down on our Prinsendam tour too when we had the NORO. It was very impressive. Totally agree:D

 

My biggest concern (if we have NORO ship) is that someone with it has decided to do the tour.

[centuryguy]

A few years ago I somehow contracted what the ER doc thought was Noro; not from a ship, but on a plane. Never have I been so sick in my life. A couple of days, two bags of IV fluids, and drugs later, I was finally able to get around. Noro laughs at over the counter drugs.

 

Now I go overboard with cleaning. I wipe down everything in the cabin with Wet Ones; telephone, nightstand, desk, bathroom, door handles, you name it. Wet Ones again after I get food in the buffet. If I touch a chair or anything else while eating, Wet Ones again. I touch salt and pepper shakers with only napkins, etc. That may sound extreme, and I sometimes get funny looks, but that's how big an impression Noro made on me.

[Robin7]

That's so great to read. We don't do too many HAL tours so I did not know the ship's housekeeping department cleaned the buses. Wonderful!!

 

That's interesting. When my son drove bus for HAL in Alaska two summers ago, he and the tour director had to clean the bus each day, and they handed out wipes and Purell. Of course, he was doing the Cruisetour part so there were no stewards to help out. :D

 

During an outbreak, one of my son's roommates got it, so my son and the other three drivers had to be housed in a hotel until HAL cleared the roommate. They never got it, thank goodness! (Even though they drove passengers who were obviously ill.)

 

Robin

[lawyerrose]

I came down with Noro on our transatlantic cruise; got sick during the crossing portion, though many people started getting sick shortly after our cruise started in Venice.

 

My wife and I did everything they told us, but somehow I still got sick. My wife never did, even though she was in the same room with me. I can't imagine anyone having this and carrying on as usual. This thing came on like a tornado and it was all I could do to get to the bathroom. We reported being sick and a nurse came the next morning with something that helped with the nausea. I really thought I'd never eat again, I was so sick. The quarantine was for 48 hours after you got sick or 12 hours since the last bout of vomiting or diarrhea.

 

I don't recall any charge for the visit or medication. Haz-mat teams came at least a couple times a day to clean the room. They wore masks. I felt like a leper!!

 

Fortunately, it doesn't last all that long, but I was weak for a few days. Nothing that I'd like to do again. Since then, I've consciously tried to train myself not to touch my face and to be much more careful using restrooms anywhere!

[lawyerrose]

A few years ago I somehow contracted what the ER doc thought was Noro; not from a ship, but on a plane. Never have I been so sick in my life. A couple of days, two bags of IV fluids, and drugs later, I was finally able to get around. Noro laughs at over the counter drugs.

 

Now I go overboard with cleaning. I wipe down everything in the cabin with Wet Ones; telephone, nightstand, desk, bathroom, door handles, you name it. Wet Ones again after I get food in the buffet. If I touch a chair or anything else while eating, Wet Ones again. I touch salt and pepper shakers with only napkins, etc. That may sound extreme, and I sometimes get funny looks, but that's how big an impression Noro made on me.

 

I totally get you.

[Jsipes]

Lately we have noticed Noro & GIS is a definate probality and very common. Often the passengers are blamed for bringing it aboard, for not using hand cleaners, etc etc. We believe the spread may be from crewmembers...the crew members, bless the hearts, are infected and when a new group of passengers come aboard they catch the virus from the previous cruise passenges via the crew.

 

How could it be any other way ?? And having done 10 HAL cruises in 3 years is is also evident the 10-15 day cruises seem to be more susceptable...probably due to incubation periods. On 7 day cruises, people are on and off so fast that symptoms may not occur til they are home.

 

Our last cruise in Nov was on Prinsedam, and the cruise before us had it, our cruise had it, and the cruise after us had it. We believe it is best to report it to medical by phone immediately, stay in your cabin and receive medical visits. It is sad to do so after one has paid for both tours and the cruise itself, but there is not much alternative. AND the problem is worsening.... could it be the food suppliers that all cruise companies use ??

[retdon]

So I read that 2 Princess ships have noro outbreaks and cruises departing later today will be delayed. hubby and I were talking about how noro is handled and how it is spread. i have read that often it is spread due to pax not staying in their cabins. I have friends who have cruised and when they got sick, they didn't tell anyone so they wouldn't be shunned. We have never been sick onboard and I think I would be inclined to stay in my cabin and stay away from everyone. I am wondering if it would be a good idea to let the ships doctor know and also if he would give any drugs to treat symptoms--for free? It seems to me that this is in everyone's best interest.

 

What do you all think? Does anyone have experience with this dilemma? Would the ship charge for the simple drugs needed (anti-diarrheal, anti-vomiting. These are cheap OTC drugs. No antibiotics needed since it is a virus, even though these can be pretty cheap depending on which one is used)? And,as a bonus question, if you got sick and had to miss part (or all) of the cruise sick in your cabin, do you think HAL would give you any kind of credit for a future cruise (just to be nice guys, not because they have to?!

 

ML

 

Go Giants!!

If you are as sick as I was you only want to be lying down in your bed. I have had several serious illnesses and this was by far the worse I have felt. As a nurse I knew what it was and had done everything possible not to contract it. I believe the previous passenger in our cabin had it and because of my low immune system I finally (10 day cruise and got sice on day 7) got it. My DH took care of me and he never had it. I did spend the first night in the ship hospital with IVs and meds to stop the vomiting and diarrhea, the worst ever. I never want to got through that again and now clean everything in the cabin and don't go without hand wipes..... It is spread by hand to mouth or eyes by way of your vomitus and feces, that should give you a hint to was those hands....................

[ricki]

A few years ago I somehow contracted what the ER doc thought was Noro; not from a ship, but on a plane. Never have I been so sick in my life. A couple of days, two bags of IV fluids, and drugs later, I was finally able to get around. Noro laughs at over the counter drugs.

 

Now I go overboard with cleaning. I wipe down everything in the cabin with Wet Ones; telephone, nightstand, desk, bathroom, door handles, you name it. Wet Ones again after I get food in the buffet. If I touch a chair or anything else while eating, Wet Ones again. I touch salt and pepper shakers with only napkins, etc. That may sound extreme, and I sometimes get funny looks, but that's how big an impression Noro made on me.

I think you might find Chlorox Disinfecting Wipes more effective. They do not contain bleach, but are effective against some viruses (especially cold and influenza) and 99.9% of bacteria including E. coli, staph aureus, and Salmonella. Wet Ones are only anti-bacterial. This is from their website:

 

TO DISINFECT

 

Wipe surface to be disinfected; use enough wipes for treated surface to remain visibly wet for 4 minutes. Let surface dry. For highly soiled surfaces, clean excess dirt first.

 

Ricki

[innlady1]

Noro patients often do not know that for days after their symtoms have abated, they are still contagious. Once they feel better they hurry out and about and are still spreading the virus.

 

 

Exactly! I just heard a report this AM on one of the News shows...a physician talking about noro in the wake of the Princess ships being hit...hard. He claimed that one is contagious for the 2 weeks that follow contracting the norovirus.

He concurred with what is well-known: Hand sanitizers kill a lot of germs...but noro is NOT one of them.

[callmedeb]

I have a friend who works in daycare, when there's an outbreak at her centre I don't go near her because she's a carrier. Never gets sick from it, but has passed it to me every time.

 

I had it three times in a four week period once. It was horrible, you almost wish for death. 24 hours straight, every 20 min - you could set a watch by me. I wouldn't wish it on my enemy. Brighter side - I had never had Abs like that before.

 

Never had it on a ship though. My last cruise (past October on the Noordam) was in Code Red for most of our voyage. I had a head cold, I figured that is what stopped me from getting the virus.

 

We all do what we can and hope for the best.

 

Cheers,

 

Deb

[NoWhiners]

The closest I've gotten to noro was a traveling companion, my brother in a separate cabin.

 

He was miserable! He went to the infirmary, got drugs that knocked him out, no charges, he slept all day, missed a port, was quarantined for 24 hours and his sail card would not have allowed him off the ship if he had tried but the flag on his account and sail card allowd him to order non-standard room service. His wife and we did not get sick and in 24 hours he was feeling 90% and the fine the next day. This was on Carnival Spirit 2008

 

Now this makes a lot of sense to me--if you self-report, they can help limit spread by doing this. Doesn't help if you wander about the ship, but I am inclined to agree with most posters that if you had this, you wouldn't want to do anything but stay in bed and near a bathroom!

 

I would hope that the cruise line would do whatever they could for a sick passenger free of charge to keep the virus from becoming an outbreak. But they didn't ask me.... m--

 

Also makes sense but others have had different experience!!

 

ML

[NoWhiners]

all I know is that when we got off the Nieuw Amsterdam, if you hadn't had noro, you had a bad cold.

 

We escaped both.

 

There is such a thing as building up immunity. I'm not saying not to wash your hands - but you do need to build up immunity and that means you do get exposed to some germs and don't sanitize everything in your home to the nth degree;) There is no right or wrong answer to this, but the more your body has built up antibodies, the better off you are:D

 

Fair winds and following seas to all:D and may none of us sail on a ship with it :)

 

hi kazu

 

Loved your earlier comments about lightning striking and also the 'thats my story and I'm sticking to it'!! This thread has provided a lot of unexpected useful info. We always travel with the usual assortment of drugs to treat symptoms (DH says I worry too much and spend too much time planning for the worst. Ha--wait until one of our travelling party geys sick, then lets hear what he has to say;)) but it is still interesting to hear what everyone has to say and their stories about dealing with noro.

 

the Giants win!!!

ML

[BruceMuzz]

Lately we have noticed Noro & GIS is a definate probality and very common. Often the passengers are blamed for bringing it aboard, for not using hand cleaners, etc etc. We believe the spread may be from crewmembers...the crew members, bless the hearts, are infected and when a new group of passengers come aboard they catch the virus from the previous cruise passenges via the crew.

 

How could it be any other way ?? And having done 10 HAL cruises in 3 years is is also evident the 10-15 day cruises seem to be more susceptable...probably due to incubation periods. On 7 day cruises, people are on and off so fast that symptoms may not occur til they are home.

 

Our last cruise in Nov was on Prinsedam, and the cruise before us had it, our cruise had it, and the cruise after us had it. We believe it is best to report it to medical by phone immediately, stay in your cabin and receive medical visits. It is sad to do so after one has paid for both tours and the cruise itself, but there is not much alternative. AND the problem is worsening.... could it be the food suppliers that all cruise companies use ??

 

Norwalk like Viruses have been VERY common in the USA for decades.

It has been the most prevalent virus in America for many years.

 

CDC reports that 10% of Americans have it every year.

Since most passengers on a ship departing the USA are American, should we be surprised if 10% of them have it as well?

 

But that almost never happens.

Ships automatically go to Code Red if more than 1% have it.

The CDC requires it to be reported if more than 2% have it.

 

The biggest ship outbreak of this year is currently on a Princess ship - with over 5%.

But that is still far below the USA 10% average.

 

Could it be that you are less likely to catch Norwalk on a ship than you are at home?

Statistics show that the ships are cleaner and safer than where you live.

 

You said "the problem is worsening". You might want to tell the CDC about that. Their numbers show almost the exact same infection rate this year as the last several years.

 

Maybe you know something they do not????

[kazu]

hi kazu

 

Loved your earlier comments about lightning striking and also the 'thats my story and I'm sticking to it'!! This thread has provided a lot of unexpected useful info. We always travel with the usual assortment of drugs to treat symptoms (DH says I worry too much and spend too much time planning for the worst. Ha--wait until one of our travelling party geys sick, then lets hear what he has to say;)) but it is still interesting to hear what everyone has to say and their stories about dealing with noro.

 

the Giants win!!!

ML

 

ML - we are a little walking pharmacy. We take immodium and a lot of things that can make life simple if there is an issue. It's especially important in Europe. (and we like to go there a lot) dh laughs at me every time. Every time they have been put to use - but for our fellow passengers - one fell in the Venice Canal and was 'banged' by the water taxi' and our 'patches' helped him along with our medications. another did get quite sick and we gave them our immodium. They are all off the shelf meds so nothing wrong. I thank God every time that we didn't get it but I always packed prepared for whatever and happy to share

 

Hopefully lightening doesn't strike a third time, otherwise I will be paranoid to post on a roll call ;)

 

BTW dh was very happy that the Giants won too:)

[NoWhiners]

Norwalk like Viruses have been VERY common in the USA for decades.

It has been the most prevalent virus in America for many years.

 

CDC reports that 10% of Americans have it every year.

Since most passengers on a ship departing the USA are American, should we be surprised if 10% of them have it as well?

 

But that almost never happens.

Ships automatically go to Code Red if more than 1% have it.

The CDC requires it to be reported if more than 2% have it.

 

The biggest ship outbreak of this year is currently on a Princess ship - with over 5%.

But that is still far below the USA 10% average.

 

Could it be that you are less likely to catch Norwalk on a ship than you are at home?

Statistics show that the ships are cleaner and safer than where you live.

 

You said "the problem is worsening". You might want to tell the CDC about that. Their numbers show almost the exact same infection rate this year as the last several years.

 

Maybe you know something they do not????

 

Just wondering if you think that using chlorox wipes in our cabins would actually help? do you think the room stewards use stronger cleaners when they service the rooms? I know you are very knowledgeable about this, so wanted to ask!

 

thanks

ML

[SwissMyst]

Just wondering if you think that using chlorox wipes in our cabins would actually help? do you think the room stewards use stronger cleaners when they service the rooms? I know you are very knowledgeable about this, so wanted to ask!

 

thanks

ML

 

Appropriate ratio of clorox is a surface disinfectant. Follow CDC guidelines for amounts and surface contact time. If your commercial wipes dry quickly and are not of insufficient strength, all you are getting is mechanical removal which you could do with a wet kleenex. What surfaces in your room do you touch that you want disinfected that might later end up getting swallowed?

 

Back to wondering if the noro route might be more from swimming or sunning on sewer contaminated Caribbean beaches. Do these outbreaks cluster more during cruises where local swimming and beach going takes place or are they across the board no matter where the destination and port activities?

[kazu]

Appropriate ratio of clorox is a surface disinfectant. Follow CDC guidelines for amounts and surface contact time. If your commercial wipes dry quickly and are not of insufficient strength, all you are getting is mechanical removal which you could do with a wet kleenex. What surfaces in your room do you touch that you want disinfected that might later end up getting swallowed?

 

Back to wondering if the noro route might be more from swimming or sunning on sewer contaminated Caribbean beaches. Do these outbreaks cluster more during cruises where local swimming and beach going takes place or are they across the board no matter where the destination and port activities?

 

Both of my NORO ships (lightening does strike twice) were on transatantic cruises. One fresh and the other already underway in Europe and already in place. don`t think we can blame those two on Caribbean beaches (which we don`t do) ;) I suspect as Bruce Muzz stated that the blame goes to the planes. and the close confines there.

[sail7seas]

I agree more people get and transmit it on airplanes than we can imagine.

 

They go from the planes to the ships and the ships get all the bad press.

 

When did we ever see a story of how much Noro is transmitted on airplanes? :(

[SwissMyst]

......

 

When did we ever see a story of how much Noro is transmitted on airplanes? :([/b]

 

We just saw an article posted here about airplanes and disease contamination from the Wall Street Journal. December 20, 2011: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204058404577108420985863872.html

 

What to watch out for and again one still has to put their dirty fingers into their mouth or touch their food with their fingers and then swallow to get them into their GI system. Cold rhinoviruses on planes are different - you need to stick them into your nose, eyes and mouth to breathe them in to get upper respiratory sick that way.

[innlady1]

I agree more people get and transmit it on airplanes than we can imagine.

 

They go from the planes to the ships and the ships get all the bad press.

 

When did we ever see a story of how much Noro is transmitted on airplanes? :(

 

Exactly. Because passengers disembark after a short time, never to be heard from again.

[knitlady037]

We were booked on the Zuiderdam when we found out before we flew to Florida that the ship was returning to the US infected with Noro. Found out through the CC site-not from HAL. We decided to go anyway.

 

The first thing I did was contact my travel insurance company. They told us that if we became sick, to make sure we received care from the ships doctor and to get it documented. If we were quarantined to our room we would be reimbursed for the cost of those days.

 

We had friends visiting us at the hotel we stayed at so they brought us to the ship early to find out what the story was. At the pier we weregiven a notice about the contamination and that the CDC required a full cleaning. We were also given the option of canceling with a full refund. We were told boarding would start at 5 pm instead of 11 am and that they had rented the convention center to house all the people that were arriving. HAL ran buses back and forth and also gave passengers tickets for the water taxi in case they wanted to go shopping. Food was provided at the convention center as well as movies and some other entertainment.

 

We decided to return to the hotel and called our travel insurance co. They told us that because of the long delay, we could stay there and have dinner where we wanted, but to keep the receipts to be reimbursed.

At 7 pm we returned to the convention center hoping boarding would begin soon. It started around 9 pm and we sailed at midnight.

The cruise was in code red for the first 3 days out of it for 1 and then back in again for 3.

Even with all the sickness, some people refused to sanitize their hands and gave the crew a very hard time about it. I overheard more than one passenger saying they did not feel well but they paid for the cruise and were going to get everything they paid for.

 

I took cans of disenfectant and sprayed every inch of the cabin even though it was midnight. Phones, door handles, remotes, bathroom, etc.

Luckily, we did not get sick but we lost one full day of our cruise and the rest was limited in what we could do. No pools were open, no books in library, no self service. Very long lines for food and staff was stretched to the limit.

 

Not the best cruise we have ever been on, but we made the best of it. That was my experience with noro.:eek:

[sail7seas]

Sounds perfectly awful and I'm sorry to read what you experienced. We know HAL did the best they could with such a bad situation but the fact is your cruise was less than it should have been through no fault of yours.

 

IMO.....