Jones Act

[firefly333]

I was wanting to move my cruise to Alaska to a B2B with the cruise from Vancouver to Hawaii.

 

I dont see why its legal for Carnival to go to Alaska at all if Canada is not considered a distant port .. but it doesnt count if its on a B2B.

 

Im going to call guest solutions and see if I can get a answer that makes sense, as to me all of the miracle cruises dont go to a distant foreign port do they? What am I missing.

 

SS Oceanlover did say he thought Carnival's answer would be no, and so it was .. though to me Vancouver Canada, which both cruises go to is a foreign port, so why is one ok and not the other if combined. .. or why are any of the Alaskan cruises ok then?? I dont get it.

[sail7seas]

It isn't the Jones Act.

It is the PVSA..... Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886.

[PaulMedik]

I was wanting to move my cruise to Alaska to a B2B with the cruise from Vancouver to Hawaii.

 

I dont see why its legal for Carnival to go to Alaska at all if Canada is not considered a distant port .. but it doesnt count if its on a B2B.

 

Im going to call guest solutions and see if I can get a answer that makes sense, as to me all of the miracle cruises dont go to a distant foreign port do they? What am I missing.

 

SS Oceanlover did say he thought Carnival's answer would be no, and so it was .. though to me Vancouver Canada, which both cruises go to is a foreign port, so why is one ok and not the other if combined. .. or why are any of the Alaskan cruises ok then?? I dont get it.

 

 

FireFly333,

 

You'll never get it; you are applying logic to governmental regulations; remove all logic and view it from an out dated financial crony perspective and it will make perfect sense. ;)

[H82seaUgo]

I was wanting to move my cruise to Alaska to a B2B with the cruise from Vancouver to Hawaii.

 

I dont see why its legal for Carnival to go to Alaska at all if Canada is not considered a distant port .. but it doesnt count if its on a B2B.

 

Im going to call guest solutions and see if I can get a answer that makes sense, as to me all of the miracle cruises dont go to a distant foreign port do they? What am I missing.

 

SS Oceanlover did say he thought Carnival's answer would be no, and so it was .. though to me Vancouver Canada, which both cruises go to is a foreign port, so why is one ok and not the other if combined. .. or why are any of the Alaskan cruises ok then?? I dont get it.

 

unless you are sailing as cargo, don't call it the jones act.

[westcruzer]

unless you are sailing as cargo, don't call it the jones act.

 

Lol. I don't know why but I laughed when I read this.

 

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

[Frank12]

FireFly333,

 

You'll never get it; you are applying logic to governmental regulations; remove all logic and view it from an out dated financial crony perspective and it will make perfect sense. ;)

 

As a government employee, I resemble that remark!

[tracyvansmith]

It isn't the Jones Act.

It is the PVSA..... Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886.

 

unless you are sailing as cargo, don't call it the jones act.

 

The passenger vessel services act say that Carnival can not transfer passengers from one USA port to another USA Port without visiting a distant foreign port. eg. Embark in Seattle and disembark in Hawaii.

The Alaska cruises you get on and off in the same USA port (Seattle) so all Carnival has to do is visit a foreign port. (it does not have to be a distant foreign port in this case so a Canadian port works just like a Mexican port works for a Hawaii round trip from LA)

[yst347]

Foriegn flagged vessels cannot carry passengers from one USA port to a different USA port without stopping at a distant foreign port.

 

Under the PVSA Canadian ports are not considered distant foreign ports.

Even though you are booking two cruises the PVSA considers only where you began your journey on the ship and where you end the journey. Since you want to board in Seattle and end in Honolulu and do not call on a distant foreign port you cannot book both legs as it is a violation.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

I was wanting to move my cruise to Alaska to a B2B with the cruise from Vancouver to Hawaii.

 

I dont see why its legal for Carnival to go to Alaska at all if Canada is not considered a distant port .. but it doesnt count if its on a B2B.

 

Im going to call guest solutions and see if I can get a answer that makes sense, as to me all of the miracle cruises dont go to a distant foreign port do they? What am I missing.

 

SS Oceanlover did say he thought Carnival's answer would be no, and so it was .. though to me Vancouver Canada, which both cruises go to is a foreign port, so why is one ok and not the other if combined. .. or why are any of the Alaskan cruises ok then?? I dont get it.

 

Both Miracle cruises are OK if booked by themselves.

 

The first leg of your trip is fine because it either starts or ends in a foreign country as does the hawaii leg.

 

The problem comes in when you book them b2b it becomes one cruise in the eyes of the law.

 

It would then start in one U.S. city and end in a different U.S. city which would require the ship the visit a "DISTANT" foreign port which this itinerary does not do.

 

The Alaska cruises that start and end in Seattle only require the ship to stop at a foreign port. It doesn't have to be a "DISTANT" foreign port because it is a closed loop cruise.

 

Bill

[yst347]

A “nearby foreign port” is defined as "any port in North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao)." 19 CFR § 4.80a(a)(2).

 

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/trade/legal/informed_compliance_pubs/pvsa_icp.ctt/pvsa_icp.pdf

[firefly333]

Both Miracle cruises are OK if booked by themselves.

 

The first leg of your trip is fine because it either starts or ends in a foreign country as does the hawaii leg.

 

The problem comes in when you book them b2b it becomes one cruise in the eyes of the law.

 

It would then start in one U.S. city and end in a different U.S. city which would require the ship the visit a "DISTANT" foreign port which this itinerary does not do.

 

The Alaska cruises that start and end in Seattle only require the ship to stop at a foreign port. It doesn't have to be a "DISTANT" foreign port because it is a closed loop cruise.

 

Bill

 

this is the part Im having trouble with .. I dont even see where it says anything about closed loop cruises, vs one way cruises, though I agree that seems to be the issue.

 

I had to take my mom somewhere, and have not yet talked to Carnival.

 

I sure dont want to have it as two separate cruises.. so silly to fly there twice, 2 weeks apart.

[zqvol]

this is the part Im having trouble with .. I dont even see where it says anything about closed loop cruises, vs one way cruises, though I agree that seems to be the issue.

 

I had to take my mom somewhere, and have not yet talked to Carnival.

 

I sure dont want to have it as two separate cruises.. so silly to fly there twice, 2 weeks apart.

 

 

You may not want to but that is what you are going to have to do to sail both legs.

[hannahsmomtoo]

As a government employee, I resemble that remark!

 

HA ! As a government employee-- I totally agree with it ! :rolleyes:

[S.S.Oceanlover]

this is the part Im having trouble with .. I dont even see where it says anything about closed loop cruises, vs one way cruises, though I agree that seems to be the issue.

 

I had to take my mom somewhere, and have not yet talked to Carnival.

 

I sure dont want to have it as two separate cruises.. so silly to fly there twice, 2 weeks apart.

 

There is nothing in the PVSA that would mention anything about closed loop cruises since the PVSA only pertains to cruises that leave from one U.S. port and return to a different U.S. port.

 

Bill

[firefly333]

Im back home and just dont get it. I admit I cant see why both legs stopping in Vancouver isnt enough.

[INTERLINER13]

Any way to just book them seperate? Go through customs then check in and reboard?

[BeccaBecca1713]

Fire, if you go to the search function and type in PVSA or Jones Act, you'll see all sorts of threads where folks were in the same predicament as you. And on all occasions, the b2b was a no go.:(

 

It's an archaeic act that needs to be updated.

[crzndeb]

I think I am more shocked that you have't read the numerous threads on this already. Is the search feature down?

 

Ways around the PVSA is to take a different cruise line for one of the trips. Or to start the cruise in Vancouver.

 

Lots of people have been affected by this (my friends included), and it is usually with the Alaska/Hawaii cruisings.

 

Bottom line, you can't be transported (don't think cruise), from one US port to a different US port without stopping in a DISTANT foreign port...Canada and Mexico are not distant foreign ports.

[yst347]

Firefly, the feds do not care if you booked a one way, round trip, closed loop of any other type of cruise. All they care about is where you boarded and where you plan to get off. In your case you want to bool b2b an itinerary that starts in Seattle and ends in Honolulu. Foreign vessels can carry you between these ports but only if they stop in a distant foreign port. Canadian ports are nearby foreign ports as fare in the eyes of the PVSA.

[LHP]

I was wanting to move my cruise to Alaska to a B2B with the cruise from Vancouver to Hawaii.

 

I dont see why its legal for Carnival to go to Alaska at all if Canada is not considered a distant port .. but it doesnt count if its on a B2B.

 

Im going to call guest solutions and see if I can get a answer that makes sense, as to me all of the miracle cruises dont go to a distant foreign port do they? What am I missing.

 

SS Oceanlover did say he thought Carnival's answer would be no, and so it was .. though to me Vancouver Canada, which both cruises go to is a foreign port, so why is one ok and not the other if combined. .. or why are any of the Alaskan cruises ok then?? I dont get it.

 

I have to say that I understand your question as it is the same one I have asked many times and still do not understand.

 

And I believe it is because the one leg of your trip (or maybe both) is not a CLOSED LOOP.

 

I think that is the key....

[Koval]

Fire, you seem to like other Cruise lines besides Carnival. maybe do the first leg with one of them

in 2010, we were book on the last Alaska Cruise,(Carnival Spirit) with some others who had booked it B2B,

they were from New Zealand and already had their flights and everything when they found out they had to Cancel one of the cruises.

They Canceled the Alaska Leg and took it with Holland, I think, then came back just in time to get on the Spirit to Hawaii

Crazy, but it all worked out for them.

and they didn't have to fly in twice.

I think it is an out of date law, like many you find in the south...

IE Women can't drive unless a man is walking near the car yelling woman driver,

OK I don't know if that is true or not, but just as silly as this out dated law.

[firefly333]

Firefly, the feds do not care if you booked a one way, round trip, closed loop of any other type of cruise. All they care about is where you boarded and where you plan to get off. In your case you want to bool b2b an itinerary that starts in Seattle and ends in Honolulu. Foreign vessels can carry you between these ports but only if they stop in a distant foreign port. Canadian ports are nearby foreign ports as fare in the eyes of the PVSA.

 

I am getting this now .. unfortunately.

 

Its thru a group cruise TA .. so its not like I can change cruiselines. It was offered on Carnival and so that's what it has to be if I want a discounted cruise price.

 

I would have to pay full price and it wouldnt be worth it to book on another line. So that idea doesnt work either, unless he offers a group to Alaska on another line later on.

 

The cruise to Hawaii, I got for around $1400 total which is a substantial discount, so that one has to stay as is. .. and it was offered AFTER I booked the other Alaskan date, and just got into the details today.

 

I had no idea so many places were not considered DISTANT ports. to me in Texas it sure is.

[LHP]

Btw, Seatrade is going on this week in Miami.

 

I sure do wish all the cruise lines would get together and get PVSA revoked (AT LEAST for cruises starting in the Continental US....that way NCL can still have their Hawaiian ship)....

[xbatt8]

If the Hawaii cruise originates in Vancouver, then is that not OK? I realize that the Alaska cruise goes from Seattle to Seattle, but then s/he starts the next cruise from a NON US city. I understand that the PVSA assumes a continuation, but how long? Is it boarding a ship the same day? What If I board a ship in another city the next day? Still continuation? 2 days, a week, a month, when does it stop being a continuation?

 

So If I wanted to do the Ensenada to Hawaii cruise, I couldn't do a domestic cruise AT ALL right before that? I couldn't cruise from Miami back to Miami, get on a plane and fly to Ensenada and then take that cruise???

 

I find it hard to believe that the PVSA is that convoluted or that intricate.

 

Bob

[Koval]

I am getting this now .. unfortunately.

 

Its thru a group cruise TA .. so its not like I can change cruiselines. It was offered on Carnival and so that's what it has to be if I want a discounted cruise price.

 

I would have to pay full price and it wouldnt be worth it to book on another line. So that idea doesnt work either, unless he offers a group to Alaska on another line later on.

 

The cruise to Hawaii, I got for around $1400 total which is a substantial discount, so that one has to stay as is. .. and it was offered AFTER I booked the other Alaskan date, and just got into the details today.

 

I had no idea so many places were not considered DISTANT ports. to me in Texas it sure is.

I wonder what would happen if you got on at the first port. Vanc. then you are starting from a different country?

With all that other stuff being said, I found it very odd that while getting off in Vanc. BC (our cruise ended in Vanc.) I noticed a room and a sign for those doing the B2B, so I bet it is a matter of taking the risk. But why would Carnival have that room set up, if those on our cruise were not allowed to get back on?