Beware Karmel shuttle

[Infi]

This is a warning about Karmel shuttle. My daughter and I used them for transport between LAX and the Crowne Plaza in San Pedro prior to our Christmas cruise and had a terrible, potentially dangerous experience.

 

 

I booked the shuttle through Hotwire and received a voucher (did not include tip) to give to the driver as payment. After arriving at LAX and claiming our luggage, we called the dispatch to ask for our pickup. He told us to wait directly outside the baggage claim and the driver would come around. We waited and finally the driver arrived. My daughter went out into the loop and waved at the driver. He saw her and still pulled right past us and drove away. I called the dispatch again, told him what happened, and he said the driver would be back. 20 minutes later, the driver returned. This time he passed us again, pulling up into the area where the super shuttles etc. were parked. He did not stop the car; instead he kept pulling the car forward in short bursts, making my daughter chase after him with all our luggage trying to catch up. I was lagging behind with our carry-ons, but she caught up to him and said that we were here for our pickup and she was going to walk back and help me. He told her he could not wait and he was leaving now. Finally we caught up with him and he was already in the car, ready to drive off. He came over and was so anxious to close the door, he slammed it on my hip as I was still crawling in. When he couldn’t close the door, he left the door open and got back in the car and started to drive away. I had to close the door myself as the car started moving.

The entire way to the hotel, he drove like a maniac, huffing and puffing and muttering the F word under his breath. As we approached San Pedro, he then informed us that our prepaid voucher did not include a tip and he needed one. I asked him if he thought he deserved a tip after how he treated us. He ignored the question and repeated about the tip. I informed him that a tip was for good service, not for making us chase after the limo, and slamming the door on my hip. He complains we’re not listening to him, then mutters and curses some more under his breath.

 

Finally we arrive at the Crowne Plaza. He let my daughter out of the front seat, but locks me in the back seat and keeps demanding the tip. My daughter keeps pulling on the backseat door and can’t get in. I said he better let me out of the car, and finally he does. Meanwhile, the bellmen at the hotel are around the car and trying to get the luggage out of the trunk. The driver gets out of the car screaming at them not to touch the luggage and that we didn't pay and we're thieves. I was so embarrassed. I told the bellmen we had a voucher and pre-paid and how the driver was trying to trap us. He proceeds to threaten the bellmen with bodily harm for taking the luggage away (clearly he was going to hold it as ransom for his tip) and tells them he'll "be back to get them". Even the bellmen are scared at this point, but finally the bell captain comes out and tells the driver never to come back and he drives off. My daughter managed to nab a photo of the driver, his license plate, and his driver tag number, which we give to the bellmen. The bell captain called the police to file a report as the others helped us to our room.

 

After we checked in, I call the dispatch to complain about what happened and how he treated us, and all he could say was "you should have tipped him, the tip isn't included in the voucher." I asked if he would tip if he were treated that way, and the dispatch tells me that he's known the driver for 9 years and he's so nice, he would never do any of that. I couldn't believe the dispatch was implying that I was exaggerating and lying about the whole thing. I told him that if I was exaggerating, then the hotel must have been too when they filed their police report against the driver. It was just a downright scary experience and I felt frustrated that Karmel just brushed me off like it was nothing.

 

 

Karmel was highly recommended to me by a good friend and also recommended here on CC. I thought I had thoroughly vetted them, so this was a terrible experience I never expected. Their response to the situation was downright insensitive and uncaring and poor customer service.

I’m sure Karmel provided a decent service in the past, but I would not wish this driver on my worst enemy. He had anger issues and was clearly unstable and I feel he could have been violent. The two of us genuinely feared for our safety when we were in the car with him. Please beware of Karmel shuttle.

[nonna5]

Thanks for the warning. I have started looking into car services for next year and will make sure I do not consider them.

[Urban trekker]

It appears that this happened around Christmas time and it is just being reported now.

 

Out of interest - you said you booked in through Hotwire - have you contacted them about this.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[Infi]

It appears that this happened around Christmas time and it is just being reported now.

 

Out of interest - you said you booked in through Hotwire - have you contacted them about this.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

That is correct, this did happen at Christmas. I wasn't sure whether I wanted to post the story on here because Cruise Critic usually isn't very kind to those who have problems. I did so at the suggestion of a friend, and because I don't want others to go through the same thing we did.

 

I did contact Hotwire and informed them of what happened. I wasn't interested in compensation, just in letting them know what kind of company that they're working with. The representative I spoke with apologized and thanked me for letting them know.

[hello]

Thank you for letting us know ... what a terrifying experience that was!

[Northender]

That was a very nasty experience. I, for one, am glad you posted this.:)

 

I have had some crazy experiences when I travelled frequently for my job.

One thing I learned was, once in the cab, I kept my mouth shut until arriving to the hotel and then letting the Bell Captain handle it.

Would you believe one guy actually put two charge slips in the machine (old days) and when he passed it back for signature, I slipped one out. some of these folks stop at nothing.:(

 

Where you had a voucher, I assume you paid up front?

 

Now do your CC friends a favor, if you see a post asking about this company, make sure you answer, no matter how much flack you get.:)

[kenish]

I'm surprised to read this; it's the first negative experience with Karmel I've heard about personally or read about here on CC, or on Tripadvisor. A previous employer used them exclusively and they were so good I always use them for shuttle service.

 

Not doubting your post at all...have you contacted Karmel's management? The dispatcher should have taken your problem more seriously. IMO, it's important to contact their office...they will either explain themselves (maybe it was a bad, "rogue" driver) or if they don't handle your complaint appropriately then it means a once good company has gone downhill. Either way you will save others grief.

 

Are you sure the driver was even with Karmel? Over the years there have been problems with privateer drivers masquerading as legit companies at LAX. That would certainly explain why the driver didn't want to hang around; the ground transport coordinators in the shuttle areas watch for that type of activity.

 

I'm not trying to make excuses or be apologist for Karmel; it's just very out-of-character. I have no financial or other interest with them beyond a satisfied customer. If you choose to contact their offices (and I hope you do), here's their contact info:

 

2481 East Orangethorpe Ave

Fullerton, CA 92831

1-888-995-7433

714-670-3480

 

Let us know how this plays out...especially if it's unfavorable.

[Urban trekker]

Kenish - you bring up a good point about privateers - are the Karmel vans etc marked and do the drivers you have used carry ID - most established shuttle companies would have their employees properly id - perhaps the reason he was so insistent about a tip is that if he was a roque driver the voucher wouldn't do him any good so his only source of revenue would be a tip.

 

Just some more thoughts

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[Cruisin' Chick]

Wow, that was a bad experience. I had a major problem with our Prime Time bookings in 12/10 and 1/11 -- but it wasn't either driver that was problematic, but whoever did the scheduling sent the driver on the first day to the port to pick us up (instead of our house), and then to our house on the return trip (instead of the port). I wouldn't had made a big deal about the first mistake...but when the second one happened, I can not let mention of the company pass here without informing CCers of what happened to us. Even when the poor port rep for the company (he was dealing with quite a few problems because of mistakes back at the office) tried to get us a van, the dispatcher actually argued with him that we were supposed to be in the Valley at that moment (I heard her!).

 

I tried to contact customer service when we finally got home, and the call went to voice mail. On a Wednesday afternoon? My emails went unanswered until I threatened in one to proceed further (contact the credit card company).

 

Now, whenever someone mentions PT, I have to mention our experience. After all, we are trying to help each other have good experiences with hotels, cruises, sightseeing, even car services. Every once in a while, someone will suggest that I made a mistake in booking and I know that I didn't -- even got an email confirmation with the correct info.

 

So don't feel bad about posting about what happened to you. That's what the forum is for -- both positives and negatives.

[rjscott]

Infi, that was a terrible experience, and my husband would have done the same as you did regarding the tip. However, we had just the opposite experience with Karmel from the cruise port to our hotel in Santa Monica. Our driver was extremely courteous and professional. There was even a minor fender-bender on the way out of the port (not his fault) and his major concern was that we were ok. That was a very pleasant surprise, as I'd have expected his concern to be for his vehicle and his job. On the drive to Santa Monica we had a very pleasant conversation with him, but he also maintained his concentration on the traffic. I wouldn't hesitate to use Karmel again.

[cruzisme]

Our travel agent made the arrangements for us with Karmel. We paid with credit card in advance. She said they book all their clients with Karmel.

 

When we got to LAX, we followed the directions and phoned them. They said a driver would meet us etc.

 

And then we waited. We probably waited a good half hour or more (we saw lots of other vans go by while we waited for ours).

Once he got there, he was fine and we made it to the pier in reasonable time.

Overall, I would rate the service as 7/10 unless I was expecting faster arrival time from shuttle services. Maybe I had too high expectations since the company and I had re-confirmed the reservation previous to my flight day, etc. I expected the van to arrive within 15--20 minutes after my phone call.

 

So....fill me in on what is reasonable. At this moment, I am not sure if I would re-book with this company after my experience.

[1025cruise]

Unless I was excessively delayed, I would expect any shuttle company I hired to pick me up at the airport to be at the airport at the expected time. If I have directions to call them, my expectation is that so they can tell the driver who is hiding around the corner to come forward.

[rjscott]

. Maybe I had too high expectations since the company and I had re-confirmed the reservation previous to my flight day, etc. I expected the van to arrive within 15--20 minutes after my phone call.

 

So....fill me in on what is reasonable. At this moment, I am not sure if I would re-book with this company after my experience.

 

I think your expectations are reasonable. I certainly would have been irritated if we'd had to have waited more than 15 min. after calling to let them know we had our luggage and were headed out to the limo/van pickup area. But, I suppose, depending on how many ships are in on a given day, the limo's/vans may have a longer than normal delay in getting from their parking area to the pickup area. On the day we were picked up by Karmel, we were the only ship in port.

[kenish]

 

So....fill me in on what is reasonable. At this moment, I am not sure if I would re-book with this company after my experience.

 

At LAX, it would depend on which terminal. Assuming no traffic, 15-20 minutes from the time you called is reasonable for T1-T3. But add 5 or 10 minutes for TBIT, or T4-T7. That's assuming no traffic; sometimes there are traffic jams entering the terminal loop and sometimes as far as TBIT...it depends on the time of day.

 

My last two experiences picking friends up at T4 in my car: A weeknight around 8pm, getting to T4 took about 30 minutes. Traffic was terrible. Weekday around 11am, T4 took 10 minutes entering the terminal loop (and it takes the shuttles about 5 minutes from their holding area to the loop). You may have seen other vans, but you don't know how long others were waiting for them...maybe 5 minutes, maybe 45 !

 

That said, if you know for sure there was no traffic issues, than 30+ minutes seems excessive. At least you headed straight to the port; some of the van services circle and troll for more passengers (I believe they are allowed 3 laps at LAX).

 

On the "privateer" comment, here's a photo of the Karmel vans: http://www.karmel.com/fleet

[Fattony]

Since flighs can be delayed and luggage can be delayed, I personally would NOT expect a shuttle to be waiting outside the departure terminal for me. They are limited in how long they can park there, and don't know how long you have been delayed. Right or wrong, in the real world I'd expect to have to phone them or, in the case of Prime Time or Supershuttle, to walk outside to their waiting area and get onthe next available vehicle (as we did recently). Maybe we shouldn't have to do this, but I'd certainly be prepared to. Now, how long one would expect to wait for a vehicle is another matter. If you've paid in advance, I could understand your expectation of a shorter wait (i.e., they should have a vehicle and driver set aside for you), but it also reduces your options.

 

This site, and Flyertalk and others, have lots of complaints about various shuttle companies. And some compliments. Sometimes a cab is best.

[Infi]

Re: the privateer comments, this man definitely worked for Karmel shuttle. We could see his ID and paperwork in the car and he knew that we had a prepaid voucher before we even said anything. A privateer would not have known that. The dispatch had also been in contact with him and clearly knew who we were talking about when I called to report what happened.

 

I don't doubt that Karmel has provided a good service in the past, nor do I doubt that their other drivers are decent and capable. If that was not the case, the company wouldn't be highly reviewed. However, as long as they employ people like our driver and think what he did was acceptable, I would not want to patronize them. I wouldn't want to take a chance on ending up with that man again, and hope others would not either.

 

Kenish, thank you for the contact information posted upthread. I'm leaving on a cruise tomorrow, but I will try to contact them when we return home.

[kenish]

Re: the privateer comments, this man definitely worked for Karmel shuttle. We could see his ID and paperwork in the car and he knew that we had a prepaid voucher before we even said anything. A privateer would not have known that. The dispatch had also been in contact with him and clearly knew who we were talking about when I called to report what happened.

 

I don't doubt that Karmel has provided a good service in the past, nor do I doubt that their other drivers are decent and capable. If that was not the case, the company wouldn't be highly reviewed. However, as long as they employ people like our driver and think what he did was acceptable, I would not want to patronize them. I wouldn't want to take a chance on ending up with that man again, and hope others would not either.

 

Kenish, thank you for the contact information posted upthread. I'm leaving on a cruise tomorrow, but I will try to contact them when we return home.

 

Makes sense, and agree with your comments. It's just so atypical that I hope it was a fluke and they will take action. I'd hate for Karmel to have gone "bad". Definitely mention in a non-threatening way that the incident is a topic of discussion on CC.

 

Enjoy your cruise!

[g-didi]

I know this all happened in a very quick fashion but if there is ever a next time where you were not able to exit the car because the driver has locked you in on purpose and refuses to let you out- call 911. You are being held against your will and I would have felt threatened by his behaviour demanding you pay a tip etc.

 

Let the driver explain himself to the police and stay out of harms way.

[CanWeGoYet?]

I know this all happened in a very quick fashion but if there is ever a next time where you were not able to exit the car because the driver has locked you in on purpose and refuses to let you out- call 911. You are being held against your will and I would have felt threatened by his behaviour demanding you pay a tip etc.

 

Let the driver explain himself to the police and stay out of harms way.

 

Actually that's a good idea. The driver sounds like he went completely round the corner.

[Putterdude]

Wow, this is quite a story, I think we will just stick with Super Shuttle....if that is OK.;)

[Donray]

He told us to wait directly outside the baggage claim and the driver would come around. We waited and finally the driver arrived. My daughter went out into the loop and waved at the driver. He saw her and still pulled right past us and drove away. I called the dispatch again, told him what happened, and he said the driver would be back. 20 minutes later, the driver returned. This time he passed us again, pulling up into the area where the super shuttles etc. were parked.

 

This is a warning for anyone using a shuttle from LAX. They only stop in a designated area and cannot stop in any other place. LAX has different color zones outside each terminal and the different types of vehicles to us, That is why the driver went to where the Supper Shuttle was waiting.

[Putterdude]

This is a warning for anyone using a shuttle from LAX. They only stop in a designated area and cannot stop in any other place. LAX has different color zones outside each terminal and the different types of vehicles to us, That is why the driver went to where the Supper Shuttle was waiting.

 

That part is explainable....but the rest is a horror story.

[ronrythm]

This is a warning for anyone using a shuttle from LAX. They only stop in a designated area and cannot stop in any other place. LAX has different color zones outside each terminal and the different types of vehicles to us, That is why the driver went to where the Supper Shuttle was waiting.

It is correct that LAX has different zones, but the shared shuttle zone where Super Shuttle & Prime Time stop is only for those who have contracts to service LAX. Karmel does not have a contract and can not use that area. They are to use the inside area with private traffic. Probably why the driver kept going through the shuttle area as he knew the LAX person at that area would kick him out if he stopped. Why he wasn't where he was supposed to be is good question.

 

I am one of those who has recommended Karmel in the past. They have given me excellent service. I'm sorry that the original poster's experience was so bad, indeed criminal. Please do contact the corporate office and post their response. As someone else posted, if something like this happens to you, call 911 as the driver was engaging in criminal behavior (unlawful detainment and extortion,) and endangering lives and public safety.

 

Ron

[Coral]

I had problems with the Corporate Office with Karmel in Dec 2010. They insisted on charging us for a Seeing Eye dog which is illegal. I thought maybe I had an ignorant teenager phone rep on the phone and insisted I speak to management who stood by their extra charge for a Service dog.

 

I really wish I would have turned this company in. We have never been charged extra for our Seeing Eye dog as it violates the ADA laws of the US.

 

They were extremely rude on the phone. Not a company I would ever call again (even with out the Seeing Eye dog). There are better companies out there.

[kenish]

I've recommended Karmel on this forum because of good experiences by colleagues, friends, family, and me. I had also never heard any negative comments on several travel forums. Obviously that's changed and Karmel seems to be going downhill.

 

So, no more Karmel recommendations from me.... :(