To You "Dueling" Carnival Veterans ... Stop and Smell The (Lousy) Coffee!

[jewopaho]

I'm reading that many of you are growling over the most recent series of Cahill cutbacks, while others will defend their favorite cruise line to the bitter end ... perfectly understandable on both sides. Irrespective of position, though, here's where we longtime cruisers stand with Carnival: we're an afterthought. We matter less than ever. Here's why ...

 

We don't fall within the target demographic ... first-time cruisers (mostly younger families) with limited disposable incomes. Sure, it's great to have past guests aboard, but it's the newbies that are Carnival's bread and butter (or is it margarine these days?). These folks have no idea what's been cut out (so there's nothing to compare), and couldn't care less if the music on deck isn't live, or entertainers aren't being flown in, or the food selections and quality have diminshed ... they're on a friggin' cruise, which they never thought they could afford. Imagine sailing to "exotic" ports of call on a floating resort, stuffing your face 24/7, sending the kids to day camp at sea, letting go in front of people you'll never see again ... all for an incredibly low price ... what could be better? It was once something they could only dream about.

 

Of course, once they're aboard, and discover that virtually everything other than accommodations, food and entertainment comes at a steep cost, they figure, "What the hell ... it's the vacation of a lifetime. We'll figure out how to pay for it somehow." Simply put, they're caught up in the hype. Don't believe for a moment that their accounts will have a zero balance at the end of the cruise. This is exactly what Carnival is counting on ... a drink or three each day, a shore trip at every port, shopping for unbelievable deals at those "recommended" shops, maybe treating the family to a special dinner onboard, feeding a bucketful of coins to the bandits, having dozens of photos taken in front of different backdrops ... in reality, what they actually paid for the cruise is far less a consideration than how much Carnival will be able to pry from these folks' credit cards. Of course, once they return with all those glowing reviews (including tons of photos and videos) their friends will want to experience it ... and when they eventually pay off the cruise (maybe in a couple of years) they'll likely book again. It's pretty much a cyclical thing.

 

Conversely, those of us who cruise frequently know how to save, if we so choose ... personally, we know when prices are more favorable; we have enough photos to last a lifetime; we know better than to attend the "port and shopping" lecture (and not to go anywhere near the thousand Diamonds International locations); we've been to just about every port at least a dozen times; my gambling budget is limited to the amount of change I have in my pocket; every family member has all the souvenirs they'll ever want (or give away); our alcohol consumption is at best moderate ... we're hardly the demographic that Carnival wants as its primary consumer.

 

The objective is always to sail at 100% capacity ... empty staterooms are lost revenue sources. So if they drop the price to attract more newbies, they'll more than make up the difference from discretionary spending. And it's pretty easy to discern who Carnival is targeting ... the dress code (or lack thereof) in the dining rooms, the format of the menu (as in, "did'ja ever"), the "water park" on deck, even the type of music piped in ... pretty much a no-brainer. Want more proof? At the first show, when the cruise director asks, "How many of you are on your first cruise?" be prepared for a deafening roar.

 

Don't get me wrong ... I'm really not knocking it. It's Carnival's business model, and it's working. The people who count (new cruisers and CCL shareholders) are happy. Nothing else really counts. So as much as we'd like to believe otherwise, it really doesn't matter much to Carnival what we oldtimers think of the new regime ... it's all about cha-ching!!

 

Al

[deborahjo]

By no means I am not a Carnival Cheerleader BUT when I want to cruise I want to pay what I what to pay. Not 30 to 40% more. Yes I realize things have changed but I will not pay for things I do not use anyway.

 

I would love to sail RCCL but I cannot justify paying the added dollars. That is my bottom line. I would not use a rock climbing wall, ice skating rink and other such things. So why pay the higher price.

 

I am satified with Carnival even though we have noticed the changes but are willing to live with these changes and be ale to cruise 1 or 2 times a year.

[zeppekitty]

I'm reading that many of you are growling over the most recent series of Cahill cutbacks, while others will defend their favorite cruise line to the bitter end ... perfectly understandable on both sides. Irrespective of position, though, here's where we longtime cruisers stand with Carnival: we're an afterthought. We matter less than ever. Here's why ...

 

We don't fall within the target demographic ... first-time cruisers (mostly younger families) with limited disposable incomes. Sure, it's great to have past guests aboard, but it's the newbies that are Carnival's bread and butter (or is it margarine these days?). These folks have no idea what's been cut out (so there's nothing to compare), and couldn't care less if the music on deck isn't live, or entertainers aren't being flown in, or the food selections and quality have diminshed ... they're on a friggin' cruise, which they never thought they could afford. Imagine sailing to "exotic" ports of call on a floating resort, stuffing your face 24/7, sending the kids to day camp at sea, letting go in front of people you'll never see again ... all for an incredibly low price ... what could be better? It was once something they could only dream about.

 

Of course, once they're aboard, and discover that virtually everything other than accommodations, food and entertainment comes at a steep cost, they figure, "What the hell ... it's the vacation of a lifetime. We'll figure out how to pay for it somehow." Simply put, they're caught up in the hype. Don't believe for a moment that their accounts will have a zero balance at the end of the cruise. This is exactly what Carnival is counting on ... a drink or three each day, a shore trip at every port, shopping for unbelievable deals at those "recommended" shops, maybe treating the family to a special dinner onboard, feeding a bucketful of coins to the bandits, having dozens of photos taken in front of different backdrops ... in reality, what they actually paid for the cruise is far less a consideration than how much Carnival will be able to pry from these folks' credit cards. Of course, once they return with all those glowing reviews (including tons of photos and videos) their friends will want to experience it ... and when they eventually pay off the cruise (maybe in a couple of years) they'll likely book again. It's pretty much a cyclical thing.

 

Conversely, those of us who cruise frequently know how to save, if we so choose ... personally, we know when prices are more favorable; we have enough photos to last a lifetime; we know better than to attend the "port and shopping" lecture (and not to go anywhere near the thousand Diamonds International locations); we've been to just about every port at least a dozen times; my gambling budget is limited to the amount of change I have in my pocket; every family member has all the souvenirs they'll ever want (or give away); our alcohol consumption is at best moderate ... we're hardly the demographic that Carnival wants as its primary consumer.

 

The objective is always to sail at 100% capacity ... empty staterooms are lost revenue sources. So if they drop the price to attract more newbies, they'll more than make up the difference from discretionary spending. And it's pretty easy to discern who Carnival is targeting ... the dress code (or lack thereof) in the dining rooms, the format of the menu (as in, "did'ja ever"), the "water park" on deck, even the type of music piped in ... pretty much a no-brainer. Want more proof? At the first show, when the cruise director asks, "How many of you are on your first cruise?" be prepared for a deafening roar.

 

Don't get me wrong ... I'm really not knocking it. It's Carnival's business model, and it's working. The people who count (new cruisers and CCL shareholders) are happy. Nothing else really counts. So as much as we'd like to believe otherwise, it really doesn't matter much to Carnival what we oldtimers think of the new regime ... it's all about cha-ching!!

 

Al

 

I guess you didn't like your cooler. LOL

[NHNEV2003]

By no means I am not a Carnival Cheerleader BUT when I want to cruise I want to pay what I what to pay. Not 30 to 40% more. Yes I realize things have changed but I will not pay for things I do not use anyway.

 

I would love to sail RCCL but I cannot justify paying the added dollars. That is my bottom line. I would not use a rock climbing wall, ice skating rink and other such things. So why pay the higher price.

 

I am satified with Carnival even though we have noticed the changes but are willing to live with these changes and be ale to cruise 1 or 2 times a year.

 

I agree 100%

 

This whole Carnival uproar is the same as the Vegas message boards 5-7 years ago when they started targeting a different audience, changing blackjack payouts, cutting this, cutting that, etc.

 

We still go to Vegas and still have a great time--just like we will continue to cruise Carnival and have a great time.

 

Not a cheerleader--just our preference.

[zqvol]

I'm reading that many of you are growling over the most recent series of Cahill cutbacks, while others will defend their favorite cruise line to the bitter end ... perfectly understandable on both sides. Irrespective of position, though, here's where we longtime cruisers stand with Carnival: we're an afterthought. We matter less than ever. Here's why ...

 

We don't fall within the target demographic ... first-time cruisers (mostly younger families) with limited disposable incomes. Sure, it's great to have past guests aboard, but it's the newbies that are Carnival's bread and butter (or is it margarine these days?). These folks have no idea what's been cut out (so there's nothing to compare), and couldn't care less if the music on deck isn't live, or entertainers aren't being flown in, or the food selections and quality have diminshed ... they're on a friggin' cruise, which they never thought they could afford. Imagine sailing to "exotic" ports of call on a floating resort, stuffing your face 24/7, sending the kids to day camp at sea, letting go in front of people you'll never see again ... all for an incredibly low price ... what could be better? It was once something they could only dream about.

 

Of course, once they're aboard, and discover that virtually everything other than accommodations, food and entertainment comes at a steep cost, they figure, "What the hell ... it's the vacation of a lifetime. We'll figure out how to pay for it somehow." Simply put, they're caught up in the hype. Don't believe for a moment that their accounts will have a zero balance at the end of the cruise. This is exactly what Carnival is counting on ... a drink or three each day, a shore trip at every port, shopping for unbelievable deals at those "recommended" shops, maybe treating the family to a special dinner onboard, feeding a bucketful of coins to the bandits, having dozens of photos taken in front of different backdrops ... in reality, what they actually paid for the cruise is far less a consideration than how much Carnival will be able to pry from these folks' credit cards. Of course, once they return with all those glowing reviews (including tons of photos and videos) their friends will want to experience it ... and when they eventually pay off the cruise (maybe in a couple of years) they'll likely book again. It's pretty much a cyclical thing.

 

Conversely, those of us who cruise frequently know how to save, if we so choose ... personally, we know when prices are more favorable; we have enough photos to last a lifetime; we know better than to attend the "port and shopping" lecture (and not to go anywhere near the thousand Diamonds International locations); we've been to just about every port at least a dozen times; my gambling budget is limited to the amount of change I have in my pocket; every family member has all the souvenirs they'll ever want (or give away); our alcohol consumption is at best moderate ... we're hardly the demographic that Carnival wants as its primary consumer.

 

The objective is always to sail at 100% capacity ... empty staterooms are lost revenue sources. So if they drop the price to attract more newbies, they'll more than make up the difference from discretionary spending. And it's pretty easy to discern who Carnival is targeting ... the dress code (or lack thereof) in the dining rooms, the format of the menu (as in, "did'ja ever"), the "water park" on deck, even the type of music piped in ... pretty much a no-brainer. Want more proof? At the first show, when the cruise director asks, "How many of you are on your first cruise?" be prepared for a deafening roar.

 

Don't get me wrong ... I'm really not knocking it. It's Carnival's business model, and it's working. The people who count (new cruisers and CCL shareholders) are happy. Nothing else really counts. So as much as we'd like to believe otherwise, it really doesn't matter much to Carnival what we oldtimers think of the new regime ... it's all about cha-ching!!

 

Al

 

 

You are exactly right, but I doubt that you will get a lot of agreement on these boards. For every past guests there are three or four first timers on every cruise.

[Texarribean Chick]

I'm reading that many of you are growling over the most recent series of Cahill cutbacks, while others will defend their favorite cruise line to the bitter end ... perfectly understandable on both sides. Irrespective of position, though, here's where we longtime cruisers stand with Carnival: we're an afterthought. We matter less than ever. Here's why ...

 

We don't fall within the target demographic ... first-time cruisers (mostly younger families) with limited disposable incomes. Sure, it's great to have past guests aboard, but it's the newbies that are Carnival's bread and butter (or is it margarine these days?). These folks have no idea what's been cut out (so there's nothing to compare), and couldn't care less if the music on deck isn't live, or entertainers aren't being flown in, or the food selections and quality have diminshed ... they're on a friggin' cruise, which they never thought they could afford. Imagine sailing to "exotic" ports of call on a floating resort, stuffing your face 24/7, sending the kids to day camp at sea, letting go in front of people you'll never see again ... all for an incredibly low price ... what could be better? It was once something they could only dream about.

 

Of course, once they're aboard, and discover that virtually everything other than accommodations, food and entertainment comes at a steep cost, they figure, "What the hell ... it's the vacation of a lifetime. We'll figure out how to pay for it somehow." Simply put, they're caught up in the hype. Don't believe for a moment that their accounts will have a zero balance at the end of the cruise. This is exactly what Carnival is counting on ... a drink or three each day, a shore trip at every port, shopping for unbelievable deals at those "recommended" shops, maybe treating the family to a special dinner onboard, feeding a bucketful of coins to the bandits, having dozens of photos taken in front of different backdrops ... in reality, what they actually paid for the cruise is far less a consideration than how much Carnival will be able to pry from these folks' credit cards. Of course, once they return with all those glowing reviews (including tons of photos and videos) their friends will want to experience it ... and when they eventually pay off the cruise (maybe in a couple of years) they'll likely book again. It's pretty much a cyclical thing.

 

Conversely, those of us who cruise frequently know how to save, if we so choose ... personally, we know when prices are more favorable; we have enough photos to last a lifetime; we know better than to attend the "port and shopping" lecture (and not to go anywhere near the thousand Diamonds International locations); we've been to just about every port at least a dozen times; my gambling budget is limited to the amount of change I have in my pocket; every family member has all the souvenirs they'll ever want (or give away); our alcohol consumption is at best moderate ... we're hardly the demographic that Carnival wants as its primary consumer.

 

The objective is always to sail at 100% capacity ... empty staterooms are lost revenue sources. So if they drop the price to attract more newbies, they'll more than make up the difference from discretionary spending. And it's pretty easy to discern who Carnival is targeting ... the dress code (or lack thereof) in the dining rooms, the format of the menu (as in, "did'ja ever"), the "water park" on deck, even the type of music piped in ... pretty much a no-brainer. Want more proof? At the first show, when the cruise director asks, "How many of you are on your first cruise?" be prepared for a deafening roar.

 

Don't get me wrong ... I'm really not knocking it. It's Carnival's business model, and it's working. The people who count (new cruisers and CCL shareholders) are happy. Nothing else really counts. So as much as we'd like to believe otherwise, it really doesn't matter much to Carnival what we oldtimers think of the new regime ... it's all about cha-ching!!

 

Al

 

if there was a nail in the post - you just hit it on the head!

[PROCRUISE]

i'm reading that many of you are growling over the most recent series of cahill cutbacks, while others will defend their favorite cruise line to the bitter end ... Perfectly understandable on both sides. Irrespective of position, though, here's where we longtime cruisers stand with carnival: We're an afterthought. We matter less than ever. Here's why ...

 

We don't fall within the target demographic ... First-time cruisers (mostly younger families) with limited disposable incomes. Sure, it's great to have past guests aboard, but it's the newbies that are carnival's bread and butter (or is it margarine these days?). These folks have no idea what's been cut out (so there's nothing to compare), and couldn't care less if the music on deck isn't live, or entertainers aren't being flown in, or the food selections and quality have diminshed ... They're on a friggin' cruise, which they never thought they could afford. Imagine sailing to "exotic" ports of call on a floating resort, stuffing your face 24/7, sending the kids to day camp at sea, letting go in front of people you'll never see again ... All for an incredibly low price ... What could be better? It was once something they could only dream about.

 

Of course, once they're aboard, and discover that virtually everything other than accommodations, food and entertainment comes at a steep cost, they figure, "what the hell ... It's the vacation of a lifetime. We'll figure out how to pay for it somehow." simply put, they're caught up in the hype. Don't believe for a moment that their accounts will have a zero balance at the end of the cruise. This is exactly what carnival is counting on ... A drink or three each day, a shore trip at every port, shopping for unbelievable deals at those "recommended" shops, maybe treating the family to a special dinner onboard, feeding a bucketful of coins to the bandits, having dozens of photos taken in front of different backdrops ... In reality, what they actually paid for the cruise is far less a consideration than how much carnival will be able to pry from these folks' credit cards. Of course, once they return with all those glowing reviews (including tons of photos and videos) their friends will want to experience it ... And when they eventually pay off the cruise (maybe in a couple of years) they'll likely book again. It's pretty much a cyclical thing.

 

Conversely, those of us who cruise frequently know how to save, if we so choose ... Personally, we know when prices are more favorable; we have enough photos to last a lifetime; we know better than to attend the "port and shopping" lecture (and not to go anywhere near the thousand diamonds international locations); we've been to just about every port at least a dozen times; my gambling budget is limited to the amount of change i have in my pocket; every family member has all the souvenirs they'll ever want (or give away); our alcohol consumption is at best moderate ... We're hardly the demographic that carnival wants as its primary consumer.

 

The objective is always to sail at 100% capacity ... Empty staterooms are lost revenue sources. So if they drop the price to attract more newbies, they'll more than make up the difference from discretionary spending. And it's pretty easy to discern who carnival is targeting ... The dress code (or lack thereof) in the dining rooms, the format of the menu (as in, "did'ja ever"), the "water park" on deck, even the type of music piped in ... Pretty much a no-brainer. Want more proof? At the first show, when the cruise director asks, "how many of you are on your first cruise?" be prepared for a deafening roar.

 

Don't get me wrong ... I'm really not knocking it. It's carnival's business model, and it's working. The people who count (new cruisers and ccl shareholders) are happy. Nothing else really counts. So as much as we'd like to believe otherwise, it really doesn't matter much to carnival what we oldtimers think of the new regime ... It's all about cha-ching!!

 

Al

 

You have it completely correct and I couldn't have said it better. Thanks! :)

[jewopaho]

By no means I am not a Carnival Cheerleader BUT when I want to cruise I want to pay what I what to pay. Not 30 to 40% more. Yes I realize things have changed but I will not pay for things I do not use anyway.

I would love to sail RCCL but I cannot justify paying the added dollars. That is my bottom line. I would not use a rock climbing wall, ice skating rink and other such things. So why pay the higher price.

I am satified with Carnival even though we have noticed the changes but are willing to live with these changes and be ale to cruise 1 or 2 times a year.

As I noted, I'm not knocking any of it ... and if it works for you, terrific. My point is that the target demographic dictates the "state of the product." Royal Craibbean's model differs, as does that of every other cruise line. There are dozens of posts whining about the "cheapening" of the experience, and how Carnival will ultimately suffer, with hordes of veterans abandoning ship (pun intended). Perhaps ... but their places will be taken by those first-timers, who will likely spend even more, since they don't know any better. And those such as you will continue to cruise with Carnival ... so everybody wins. Keep sailing, and enjoy your cruises.

 

Al

[ranger10!]

By no means I am not a Carnival Cheerleader BUT when I want to cruise I want to pay what I what to pay. Not 30 to 40% more. Yes I realize things have changed but I will not pay for things I do not use anyway.

 

I would love to sail RCCL but I cannot justify paying the added dollars. That is my bottom line. I would not use a rock climbing wall, ice skating rink and other such things. So why pay the higher price.

 

I am satified with Carnival even though we have noticed the changes but are willing to live with these changes and be ale to cruise 1 or 2 times a year.

 

 

We agree. Some of things that have changed we didn't use or enjoy anyway. Not much into the live bands, shows and such. Just want to get away, sit on my balcony and relax. The food in our opinion is still good. It's not the Ritz, but I didn't pay for that so not expecting it. I just want a vacation that I get waited on and don't have to worry about a thing! We also don't want to try the other lines that you are paying for all the extras we wouldn't use. Why waste our money! We are very happy with Carnival. Have tried other lines but have come back to Carnival. We won't leave due to some cut backs. If it means that they can keep the cost low then that is fine. It hasn't changed our experience any so don't care!

[cruisinquestions]

OP's post spells it out perfectly (not to mention sanely). This is Carnival's business model and its working for them. I for one understand what I am getting in the product I choose- which ever line that may be. So Im happy with my choices. Research helps.

 

First and foremost any business is in it to make money. For me as a consumer first and foremost is finding me the best vacation. Period. Everyone should find their best vacation- what ever that means. finding the best incentives, perks and freebies, the best experiences, the best food, the best music, the best accommodations, the best atmosphere FOR THEM.

 

So dont stress out about change- embrace it- and if you cant embrace, accept- and know, there would be something for everyone if they gave themselves more choices.

[CENTEX CRUISER]

Great thread, makes very good sense..Maybe with the new rules , the past guest party might be a little more like the old days...We cruise Royal also, but only from Galveston. Would do so more if they had more top offer from here, and as far as Galveston, I don't see them any higher priced. I do not check their prices from other ports. If you want to see pricey from Galveston, check Disney, and then Princess. Personally, this is wife and I , we prefer the age group more on Royal than Carnival, as we are in our sixties, and do not follow the party crowds.

[Pinkfloydfan]

I guess you didn't like your cooler. LOL

We didn't cruise for the cooler, picture frames, SS mugs, note pads, but we do love the 1/2 backpacks!:D The orginal poster is right;)

[PAcop141]

I'm reading that many of you are growling over the most recent series of Cahill cutbacks, while others will defend their favorite cruise line to the bitter end ... perfectly understandable on both sides. Irrespective of position, though, here's where we longtime cruisers stand with Carnival: we're an afterthought. We matter less than ever. Here's why ...

 

We don't fall within the target demographic ... first-time cruisers (mostly younger families) with limited disposable incomes. Sure, it's great to have past guests aboard, but it's the newbies that are Carnival's bread and butter (or is it margarine these days?). These folks have no idea what's been cut out (so there's nothing to compare), and couldn't care less if the music on deck isn't live, or entertainers aren't being flown in, or the food selections and quality have diminshed ... they're on a friggin' cruise, which they never thought they could afford. Imagine sailing to "exotic" ports of call on a floating resort, stuffing your face 24/7, sending the kids to day camp at sea, letting go in front of people you'll never see again ... all for an incredibly low price ... what could be better? It was once something they could only dream about.

 

Of course, once they're aboard, and discover that virtually everything other than accommodations, food and entertainment comes at a steep cost, they figure, "What the hell ... it's the vacation of a lifetime. We'll figure out how to pay for it somehow." Simply put, they're caught up in the hype. Don't believe for a moment that their accounts will have a zero balance at the end of the cruise. This is exactly what Carnival is counting on ... a drink or three each day, a shore trip at every port, shopping for unbelievable deals at those "recommended" shops, maybe treating the family to a special dinner onboard, feeding a bucketful of coins to the bandits, having dozens of photos taken in front of different backdrops ... in reality, what they actually paid for the cruise is far less a consideration than how much Carnival will be able to pry from these folks' credit cards. Of course, once they return with all those glowing reviews (including tons of photos and videos) their friends will want to experience it ... and when they eventually pay off the cruise (maybe in a couple of years) they'll likely book again. It's pretty much a cyclical thing.

 

Conversely, those of us who cruise frequently know how to save, if we so choose ... personally, we know when prices are more favorable; we have enough photos to last a lifetime; we know better than to attend the "port and shopping" lecture (and not to go anywhere near the thousand Diamonds International locations); we've been to just about every port at least a dozen times; my gambling budget is limited to the amount of change I have in my pocket; every family member has all the souvenirs they'll ever want (or give away); our alcohol consumption is at best moderate ... we're hardly the demographic that Carnival wants as its primary consumer.

 

The objective is always to sail at 100% capacity ... empty staterooms are lost revenue sources. So if they drop the price to attract more newbies, they'll more than make up the difference from discretionary spending. And it's pretty easy to discern who Carnival is targeting ... the dress code (or lack thereof) in the dining rooms, the format of the menu (as in, "did'ja ever"), the "water park" on deck, even the type of music piped in ... pretty much a no-brainer. Want more proof? At the first show, when the cruise director asks, "How many of you are on your first cruise?" be prepared for a deafening roar.

 

Don't get me wrong ... I'm really not knocking it. It's Carnival's business model, and it's working. The people who count (new cruisers and CCL shareholders) are happy. Nothing else really counts. So as much as we'd like to believe otherwise, it really doesn't matter much to Carnival what we oldtimers think of the new regime ... it's all about cha-ching!!

 

Al

 

Probably one of the best statements yet about Carnival's new thinking.....or lack thereof.

[golfadj]

Excellent and thougtful post.

[jewopaho]

The kind words are much appreciated. If I learned one thing from my years in several businesses, it was to develop a model/niche as quickly as possible, and stick with it, tweaking it only when absolutely necessary. It stood me in good stead, and obviously works for CCL, as well, on several fronts. They've acquired Holland America, Princess/P&O, and Seabourn, among other holdings, each of which targets a different segment of the cruise market. They've also been careful to operate each line independently of the others ... only those of us who poke around on the sites are even aware that CCL owns them.

 

FYI, we plan to cruise on the new Carnival Magic out of Galveston in the fall, simply because it's the only game in town for most of the year. We prefer not to fly, since we can drive to the port in under an hour. However, with Galveston becoming such a mecca, we're also booked on Royal Caribbean's Mariner of the Seas in December ... and with the Crown Princess coming here for a few months, we'll be sailing that ship, as well, likely in March of 2013. So we do spread the wealth.

 

I posted what I did to simply point out that Carnival is making the changes to further entice the major portion of its clientele ... no other reason for it. With two dozen ships under the Carnival flag in the water, the ability to pay cash for its new builds, and the wherewithal to acquire almost anything that floats, they must be doing a few things right.

 

Al

[larkz]

This seems like another exaggeration of how things have declined.

 

Well, with my first cruise as a young teen on Mardi Gras in the 70s and my return to cruising in 2009, I was struck by one big thing: the overall cruising experience had changed very little in all those years. The ships still spent a week sailing from island, part of a day in each port. They still had large opulent dining rooms. They still had shows. They still had food everywhere you went, all hours of the day or night.

 

The three biggest differences to me were: less dressing up (like Ken and Barbie dolls), more cruisers of all age groups with plenty of activities for each demographic (the Mardi Gras seemed like floating senior care), and lots more choices of what to do on board (the ships had grown so much and added lots of interesting features).

 

All of these changes were positive, in my view. As for the demographic, as I recall from decades past, way back to the "If you could see us now" commercials, Carnival has always strived to tear itself away from the old stereotype of cruisers as being a bunch of tired old people playing shuffleboard. I believe the Mardi Gras actually had shuffleboard games on deck, if I recall correctly.

 

Mardi Gras, as much as I enjoyed that cruising adventure, was a bit weather-worn and it showed through the modest retrofit and multiple layers of paint that Carnival had gobbed onto it. I'd love to sail it again, if it were possible, but the ships today have so many more amenities.

 

And if I recall, my actual (not adjusted for inflation) ticket price was about double what it is today. The price has come down. Can't beat that. There is a prevalent attitude here that people who shop with an eye towards low price are trashy, cheap, and too unsophisticated to appreciate real value and quality. That's BS. Most of the successful small businesses that I've ever worked for built themselves up by being frugal and careful with their money. Carnival has always been the best bargain among cruiselines, and if anyone imagines himself so high-fallutin sophisticated that he can pass judgement on the class and character of people just because they don't dress up enough for dinner, what where they doing on the cheapest cruiseline in the first place?

[jewopaho]

The kind words are much appreciated. If I learned one thing from my years in several businesses, it was to develop a model/niche as quickly as possible, and stick with it, tweaking it only when absolutely necessary. It stood me in good stead, and obviously works for CCL, as well, on several fronts. They've acquired Holland America, Princess/P&O, and Seabourn, among other holdings, each of which targets a different segment of the cruise market. They've also been careful to operate each line independently of the others ... only those of us who poke around on the sites are even aware that CCL owns them.

 

FYI, we plan to cruise on the new Carnival Magic out of Galveston in the fall, simply because it's the only game in town for most of the year. We prefer not to fly, since we can drive to the port in under an hour. However, with Galveston becoming such a mecca, we're also booked on Royal Caribbean's Mariner of the Seas in December ... and with the Crown Princess coming here for a few months, we'll be sailing that ship, as well, likely in March of 2013. So we do spread the wealth.

 

I posted what I did to simply point out that Carnival is making the changes to further entice the major portion of its clientele ... no other reason for it. With two dozen ships under the Carnival flag in the water, the ability to pay cash for its new builds, and the wherewithal to acquire almost anything that floats, they must be doing a few things right.

 

Al

 

Oh ... and I forgot Cunard.

[Harrier1961]

I'm not sure that first time cruisers spend much more than "veteran" cruisers.

I spent way more on my last cruise than I did on my first two cruises combined. AND, I traveled solo on the first one.

 

Andy

[Cathy p]

Great post! Here we are at 61 and 70. Of course DH is the 70 and yes he has robbed the cradle. We started with Holland (fantastic cruise), switched to Princess (3 times 1 out of 3 good) and now we are Carnival folks. Nope we are not the party people we just enjoy our cruise. We have met some wonderful peeps on Carnival and have not had a cruise that was less than fantastic.

Cheerleader from way back here!:D OMG, I just notice post 6,000. Yea me!!

[Catrin]

You have made some excellent points.

 

And yes, you have hit the nail on the head about Carnival's Business Model. They understand exactly what they are doing. They are not unlike many many successful companies out there, that have had to cut costs in order to survive.

 

This being our 13th Carnival Cruise coming up, it is amazing how we actually spend LESS. We do LESS too. We are so happy just to relax, that we no longer need to go to every show, every shopping talk, every Inch of Gold Sale :p, Every game of Bingo. Sure, Carnival is grateful for our repeat business, but it is the Newbie they need to attract year after year. Let the newbies spend their money on the Casino, Overpriced Discounted Shopping, and Endless trips to the bars.... without the Newbies, Carnival would be way OVERPRICED!!!

 

Catrin

[jewopaho]

This seems like another exaggeration of how things have declined.

 

Well, with my first cruise as a young teen on Mardi Gras in the 70s and my return to cruising in 2009, I was struck by one big thing: the overall cruising experience had changed very little in all those years. The ships still spent a week sailing from island, part of a day in each port. They still had large opulent dining rooms. They still had shows. They still had food everywhere you went, all hours of the day or night.

The three biggest differences to me were: less dressing up (like Ken and Barbie dolls), more cruisers of all age groups with plenty of activities for each demographic (the Mardi Gras seemed like floating senior care), and lots more choices of what to do on board (the ships had grown so much and added lots of interesting features).

All of these changes were positive, in my view. As for the demographic, as I recall from decades past, way back to the "If you could see us now" commercials, Carnival has always strived to tear itself away from the old stereotype of cruisers as being a bunch of tired old people playing shuffleboard. I believe the Mardi Gras actually had shuffleboard games on deck, if I recall correctly.

Mardi Gras, as much as I enjoyed that cruising adventure, was a bit weather-worn and it showed through the modest retrofit and multiple layers of paint that Carnival had gobbed onto it. I'd love to sail it again, if it were possible, but the ships today have so many more amenities.

And if I recall, my actual (not adjusted for inflation) ticket price was about double what it is today. The price has come down. Can't beat that. There is a prevalent attitude here that people who shop with an eye towards low price are trashy, cheap, and too unsophisticated to appreciate real value and quality. That's BS. Most of the successful small businesses that I've ever worked for built themselves up by being frugal and careful with their money. Carnival has always been the best bargain among cruiselines, and if anyone imagines himself so high-fallutin sophisticated that he can pass judgement on the class and character of people just because they don't dress up enough for dinner, what where they doing on the cheapest cruiseline in the first place?

I just re-read my post ... must have missed something. I don't remember referring to anyone as "trashy," "unsophisticated," or any other derogatory adjective. I simply made a point.

 

Once again, Carnival has identified a demographic that best suits its model (or vice-versa ... your choice) with the potential to increase revenue (as in profit). Toward that end, they've refined the product to maximize the possibilities. Organizations as successful as CCL don't make major decisions arbitrarily ... look how long it took them to modify the smoking policy. So through due diligence, the powers that be concluded that live music, fly-in entertainers and other such components were of little importance to the vast majority of their "fan base" ... so they largely eliminated them. Why spend good money on items that don't matter? By cutting expenses they deemed unnecessary, the profit potential increased. Prices can be kept attractively low, and everybody wins. This isn't a judgment call ... it's a business decision that works.

 

While Carnival is not our cruise line of choice (nor has it ever been) this does not preclude our ever sailing with them again ... in fact, we'll be doing just that in a couple of months. We do not consider ourselves trashy or unsophisticated, nor do we view our fellow passengers as such. The fact that we're outnumbered by young families on a budget, no longer have a Calypso deck band to enjoy, and don't particularly care for much of the entertainment (never really did) actually has no bearing on our decision. We'll cruise occasionally with Carnival, as we always have ... it's a vacation, and we'll enjoy it.

 

Al

[dave_k63]

I just think this was a GREAT thread!

[Frank12]

if there was a nail in the post - you just hit it on the head!

Agree! OP, you nailed it!

[jules815]

if there was a nail in the post - you just hit it on the head!

 

Yep, very well said!

[H82seaUgo]

I'm reading that many of you are growling over the most recent series of Cahill cutbacks, while others will defend their favorite cruise line to the bitter end ... perfectly understandable on both sides. Irrespective of position, though, here's where we longtime cruisers stand with Carnival: we're an afterthought. We matter less than ever. Here's why ...

 

We don't fall within the target demographic ... first-time cruisers (mostly younger families) with limited disposable incomes. Sure, it's great to have past guests aboard, but it's the newbies that are Carnival's bread and butter (or is it margarine these days?). These folks have no idea what's been cut out (so there's nothing to compare), and couldn't care less if the music on deck isn't live, or entertainers aren't being flown in, or the food selections and quality have diminshed ... they're on a friggin' cruise, which they never thought they could afford. Imagine sailing to "exotic" ports of call on a floating resort, stuffing your face 24/7, sending the kids to day camp at sea, letting go in front of people you'll never see again ... all for an incredibly low price ... what could be better? It was once something they could only dream about.

 

Of course, once they're aboard, and discover that virtually everything other than accommodations, food and entertainment comes at a steep cost, they figure, "What the hell ... it's the vacation of a lifetime. We'll figure out how to pay for it somehow." Simply put, they're caught up in the hype. Don't believe for a moment that their accounts will have a zero balance at the end of the cruise. This is exactly what Carnival is counting on ... a drink or three each day, a shore trip at every port, shopping for unbelievable deals at those "recommended" shops, maybe treating the family to a special dinner onboard, feeding a bucketful of coins to the bandits, having dozens of photos taken in front of different backdrops ... in reality, what they actually paid for the cruise is far less a consideration than how much Carnival will be able to pry from these folks' credit cards. Of course, once they return with all those glowing reviews (including tons of photos and videos) their friends will want to experience it ... and when they eventually pay off the cruise (maybe in a couple of years) they'll likely book again. It's pretty much a cyclical thing.

 

Conversely, those of us who cruise frequently know how to save, if we so choose ... personally, we know when prices are more favorable; we have enough photos to last a lifetime; we know better than to attend the "port and shopping" lecture (and not to go anywhere near the thousand Diamonds International locations); we've been to just about every port at least a dozen times; my gambling budget is limited to the amount of change I have in my pocket; every family member has all the souvenirs they'll ever want (or give away); our alcohol consumption is at best moderate ... we're hardly the demographic that Carnival wants as its primary consumer.

 

The objective is always to sail at 100% capacity ... empty staterooms are lost revenue sources. So if they drop the price to attract more newbies, they'll more than make up the difference from discretionary spending. And it's pretty easy to discern who Carnival is targeting ... the dress code (or lack thereof) in the dining rooms, the format of the menu (as in, "did'ja ever"), the "water park" on deck, even the type of music piped in ... pretty much a no-brainer. Want more proof? At the first show, when the cruise director asks, "How many of you are on your first cruise?" be prepared for a deafening roar.

 

Don't get me wrong ... I'm really not knocking it. It's Carnival's business model, and it's working. The people who count (new cruisers and CCL shareholders) are happy. Nothing else really counts. So as much as we'd like to believe otherwise, it really doesn't matter much to Carnival what we oldtimers think of the new regime ... it's all about cha-ching!!

 

Al

 

isn't it odd? you would think it would be the consumer vs the corporation.

 

it's funny watching some join the corporation side.