CCL advance tipping policy is hogwash

[Mikew0805]

How about just... tip what you are going to tip (whether it be the suggested, more than suggested or less than suggested) and realize that the crews' wages are really none of the passengers business! :confused:

[H82seaUgo]

I've never been subject to truly bad service on either CCL or Royal. The recommended gratuities are fairly minimal when compared with the total costs of the cruise so why grouse? Do you stiff the waitress at Red Lobster? You do know she shares with her servers and busboys? People you do not directly interact with?

 

I guess there will always be people who will find a reason to withhold their tips... if everyone reliably paid I'm sure the recommended total would come down.

 

if a business can hire people that are willing to share their tips, more power to them.

 

if i went into that line of work, they would see my back during the hiring process. yet, i know they exist out there.

 

what food business wouldn't benifit from having lower prices getting the help to share their "income".

[Surfwench]

if a business can hire people that are willing to share their tips, more power to them.

 

if i went into that line of work, they would see my back during the hiring process. yet, i know they exist out there.

 

what food business wouldn't benifit from having lower prices getting the help to share their "income".

 

Your business acumen is flawless.

[sparks1093]

if a business can hire people that are willing to share their tips, more power to them.

 

if i went into that line of work, they would see my back during the hiring process. yet, i know they exist out there.

 

what food business wouldn't benifit from having lower prices getting the help to share their "income".

 

Yet many willingly work in this field and quite a few of them do quite nicely. As I've said I do not care who gets a portion of the tips because they have earned them under the agreement between the employer and the employees, which is none of my concern.

 

(I know someone that makes approximately $60k a year in tips, extrapolate out how much the employer would have to pay for every hour of work, paying customers or not and then how much the prices would need to be raised to ensure that level of income.)

[H82seaUgo]

Yet many willingly work in this field and quite a few of them do quite nicely. As I've said I do not care who gets a portion of the tips because they have earned them under the agreement between the employer and the employees, which is none of my concern.

 

(I know someone that makes approximately $60k a year in tips, extrapolate out how much the employer would have to pay for every hour of work, paying customers or not and then how much the prices would need to be raised to ensure that level of income.)

 

absolutely, but you still only tip one source unless you visit the bar.

 

the industry got a standard 10% tip to 15% sometime in the past, and is still trying to get that standard bumped to 20% (that pronounced 18% for parties of 6/8 or more is there for a reason). once they succeed, they will have their sights set on 25%.

 

and wouldn't they love to add a second source of a tip to get the customer to pay without having to raise their prices. i'd love to see the looks on customers faces if they went to something like an envelope system. Or an electronic counterpart. a little for your server; a little for the staff.

[sparks1093]

absolutely, but you still only tip one source unless you visit the bar.

 

the industry got a standard 10% tip to 15% sometime in the past, and is still trying to get that standard bumped to 20% (that pronounced 18% for parties of 6/8 or more is there for a reason). once they succeed, they will have their sights set on 25%.

 

and wouldn't they love to add a second source of a tip to get the customer to pay without having to raise their prices. i'd love to see the looks on customers faces if they went to something like an envelope system. Or an electronic counterpart. a little for your server; a little for the staff.

 

Which is exactly how the auto-tips work- I tip one amount and it is distributed to everyone that is entitled to a share under the agreement between the employer and the employees. I don't care a fig who gets a share in the restaurant nor do I care who gets a share when I'm on a cruise ship.

[H82seaUgo]

Which is exactly how the auto-tips work- I tip one amount and it is distributed to everyone that is entitled to a share under the agreement between the employer and the employees. I don't care a fig who gets a share in the restaurant nor do I care who gets a share when I'm on a cruise ship.

 

nope. with autotips, they are taking it from you.

 

initially, it was for your convenience, tipping the people you previously tipped in cash.

 

but let's see, "while we're at it, let's take another dollar per person per day from you". "mask it as alternative dining", although you can't eat in both places, while your three meals a day tip is going to your actual service staff.

 

"oh look, they didn't notice. let's take another dollar per person per day and now give it to a larger pool to help pay for their raises, like entertainment and guest services."

[sparks1093]

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/05/18/tax-history-why-u-s-pursues-citizens-overseas/

 

Eritrea is the only other country that taxes income earned out of country. There is a small handful of countries that will continue to tax it's citizens after they leave the country, but only for a short period of time.... typically 6 months.

 

I didn't read the citation but here is a quote from the Philippine Tax Code regarding income tax on individuals:

 

"(a) On the taxable income defined in Section 31 of this Code, other than income subject to tax under Subsections (B), © and (D) of this Section, derived for each taxable year from all sources within and without the Philippines be every individual citizen of the Philippines residing therein;"

 

Now, there are exclusions for non-resident citizens and it is possible that the Philippine government considers citizens who are employed on cruise ships as being "non-residents" but I doubt that for several reasons and it is also possible that there are other exclusions that may apply (but I worked with several Philippino sailors and seem to recall that they did have to pay taxes to the Philippines even though they worked for the US Navy).

[sparks1093]

nope. with autotips, they are taking it from you.

 

initially, it was for your convenience, tipping the people you previously tipped in cash.

 

but let's see, "while we're at it, let's take another dollar per person per day from you". "mask it as alternative dining", although you can't ea in both paces, while your three meals a day tip is going to your actual service staff.

 

"oh look, they didn't notice. let's take another dollar per person per day and now give it to a larger pool to help pay for their raises, like entertainment and guest services."

 

As I said, I don't care to whom it goes. They add it to my account but I'm the one that choses whether or not to leave it there so they are hardly "taking it". If you want to get hung up on the minutia, well, that's your hang up;).

[H82seaUgo]

As I said, I don't care to whom it goes. They add it to my account but I'm the one that choses whether or not to leave it there so they are hardly "taking it". If you want to get hung up on the minutia, well, that's your hang up;).

 

that's fine. it's your money.

 

you could double it if you like. you just have no cllue how good a job they are doing, nor even know who they are.

[sparks1093]

that's fine. it's your money.

 

you could double it if you like. you just have no cllue how good a job they are doing, nor even know who they are.

 

True, just like in a restaurant because I don't know who is getting a share of the tip nor do I know how good a job they are doing, either:D.

[H82seaUgo]

True, just like in a restaurant because I don't know who is getting a share of the tip nor do I know how good a job they are doing, either:D.

 

really? you wouldn't know if the guitarist played the wrong note, the person in the office answered the phone properly, or the glasses in the cabinette were not stocked properly?

 

but nor would i expect an employee stay in a job to support such lunacy.

[Surfwench]

I didn't read the citation but here is a quote from the Philippine Tax Code regarding income tax on individuals:

 

"(a) On the taxable income defined in Section 31 of this Code, other than income subject to tax under Subsections (B), © and (D) of this Section, derived for each taxable year from all sources within and without the Philippines be every individual citizen of the Philippines residing therein;"

 

Now, there are exclusions for non-resident citizens and it is possible that the Philippine government considers citizens who are employed on cruise ships as being "non-residents" but I doubt that for several reasons and it is also possible that there are other exclusions that may apply (but I worked with several Philippino sailors and seem to recall that they did have to pay taxes to the Philippines even though they worked for the US Navy).

 

You answered your own question. Only the US taxes the foreign income of it's non-resident citizens. That imposes a double tax burden on those individuals.

[sparks1093]

really? you wouldn't know if the guitarist played the wrong note, the person in the office answered the phone properly, or the glasses in the cabinette were not stocked properly?

 

but nor would i expect an employee stay in a job to support such lunacy.

 

Employees stay in jobs for a wide variety of reasons and there are satisfiers and dis-satisfiers in all jobs.

 

I remember once I was pressed into service as a busboy back in the day and I received a share of the waitresses tips, even though it wasn't a part of my job. You probably would have had me forego those as they weren't a regular part of my compensation, right?

[sparks1093]

You answered your own question. Only the US taxes the foreign income of it's non-resident citizens. That imposes a double tax burden on those individuals.

 

But the crew members aren't non-residents so they are subject to income tax.

[Surfwench]

really? you wouldn't know if the guitarist played the wrong note, the person in the office answered the phone properly, or the glasses in the cabinette were not stocked properly?

 

but nor would i expect an employee stay in a job to support such lunacy.

 

This is a well-respected system that has worked well for a long time. Ask any bartender or waitress worth their salt if they would like to go on a straight salary... they'd tell you no thank you. The IRS would LOVE for them to switch to a regular payroll because then they can capture all those lost taxes on undeclared tips.

 

You are only arguing for arguments sake.

[H82seaUgo]

Employees stay in jobs for a wide variety of reasons and there are satisfiers and dis-satisfiers in all jobs.

 

I remember once I was pressed into service as a busboy back in the day and I received a share of the waitresses tips, even though it wasn't a part of my job. You probably would have had me forego those as they weren't a regular part of my compensation, right?

 

Aand was your salary equal to or greater than minimum wage?

[Surfwench]

But the crew members aren't non-residents so they are subject to income tax.

 

Balikbayan Visa

A Balikbayan is defined as:-

● Former Filipino citizens holding foreign passports, including spouses and children traveling with them;

● Filipinos who have been continuously out of the Philippines for at least one (1) year; and

● Filipino overseas contract workers

On return to the Philippines, Balikbayan privilege can be requested of the Immigration Officer.

 

It seems Filipino's who have been living outside of their country for 12 months or who are overseas contract workers are considered non-residents, (still citizens), who must apply for residency privileges once they return. That sounds like residency status would be on a case by case basis with the crew members.

[sparks1093]

Aand was your salary equal to or greater than minimum wage?

 

Yes (and because busboy was not my job I'd almost guarentee that I did a lot wrong;)). (But regardless of what my regular job or salary was, wouldn't I be entitled to the tip out because I was performing that function?)

[JasonV1]

Per my talks with a CCL bartender last week, they are paid entirely from bar tips.

 

I realize that isn't part of the what you are talking about, but it is worth noting.

 

The tip/"employee entertainment fund" money isn't going away. Either you pay it when you book in the form of higher fares or you pay it when you arrive in the form of auto gratuities. It is up to you to decide whether or not cruising is a good vacation value after you add up all the fixed costs.

 

You can of course remove the auto-gratuities, but I'm sure you have read the posts/seen the pictures of what happens when you do that.

 

 

Let's call it for what it is. Just another form of boosting fares with a cash grab, similar to the resort fees some hotels are starting to charge. Carnival should be paying their staff a living wage and not relying on passengers to augment their income.

 

Next cruise, I am going to cancel the tips and reward the deserving staff directly. Now some of you are going to howl "what about the dishwashers and other crew members you don't come in contact with". That's just my point. If we all stopped rewarding Carnival for paying starvation wages, they would soon change. Tips should be given out in recognition for outstanding service not as a wage supplement. I've had enough of it!

[sparks1093]

Balikbayan Visa

A Balikbayan is defined as:-

● Former Filipino citizens holding foreign passports, including spouses and children traveling with them;

● Filipinos who have been continuously out of the Philippines for at least one (1) year; and

● Filipino overseas contract workers

On return to the Philippines, Balikbayan privilege can be requested of the Immigration Officer.

 

It seems Filipino's who have been living outside of their country for 12 months or who are overseas contract workers are considered non-residents, (still citizens), who must apply for residency privileges once they return. That sounds like residency status would be on a case by case basis with the crew members.

 

I think it's safe to say that some crew members do not have to pay income tax to their home country and some crew members do have to pay income tax to their home country;).

[H82seaUgo]

Per my talks with a CCL bartender last week, they are paid entirely from bar tips.

 

I realize that isn't part of the what you are talking about, but it is worth noting.

 

 

and yet you fell for it. we alreasdy know that's not true.

[foilman2002]

Let's call it for what it is. Just another form of boosting fares with a cash grab, similar to the resort fees some hotels are starting to charge. Carnival should be paying their staff a living wage and not relying on passengers to augment their income.

 

Next cruise, I am going to cancel the tips and reward the deserving staff directly. Now some of you are going to howl "what about the dishwashers and other crew members you don't come in contact with". That's just my point. If we all stopped rewarding Carnival for paying starvation wages, they would soon change. Tips should be given out in recognition for outstanding service not as a wage supplement. I've had enough of it!

 

This is the original post. And your point is that if we all withheld our auto tip we would be teaching Carnival how to do their business.

 

But, later on, you show how you tip, $20 to room steward, $40 to wait staff, and the rest spread around, leaving you $40 left over from the autotip.

 

So your remedy is to punish the staff in order to teach Carnival a lesson.

 

Just a way of cheaping out as far as I can see.

 

The better way would be for you not to sail on any of the cruise lines that do this, and send them a letter detailing your "protest".

[foilman2002]

Then the staff has no incentive for better service or job performance. They get paid the same whether they do the minimum to get by or really go all out to make the passengers experience stellar.

 

Ever go to an all-inclusive resort? I even went to one in Mexico and received stellar service, and the tips were in that all-inclusive.

 

Did I tip anyway? yes, but not extensively and not in the restaurants.

[mikel24m]

and yet you fell for it. we alreasdy know that's not true.

 

yeah they all make that $60 per hour nonsense that you claim lol