Fire on Carnival Triumph. No engines, running on emergency generators.

[txponycruiser]

[quote name='waldocruiser1']Exactly, that is the point to make sure your family is safe.[/quote]

But if you would follow the rules and go to your assigned muster station, then EVERYONE would be safe. Don't be the jerk on the Titanic. Just do what you're told. You are NOT the expert in an emergency situation on a cruise ship. The Captain and the crew are. Follow directions and do as you're told. If one person gets out of line, then others follow suite, and then now you have chaos when you need calm and order endangering everyone else on board.

[CruisenFunToo]

The convoy is approximately 160 nautical miles from port, on track to arrive at the Mobile dock approximately between 2 p.m. and 3 p.m. Thursday.

The Triumph is expected to navigate the "safety fairway," or the corridor into Mobile Bay, late Wednesday night, bringing it around 8 a.m. Thursday to the point where a pilot from the Port of Mobile will board the ship and guide it to dock.

[Crusin6]

[quote name='RuthlessBoss']Yes, they didn't get what they paid for, but so many have no clue how to go into survival mode, so to speak. Their lives have likely never been deprived of much. Society now isn't what it used to be, it's more a gimmee thing.
And skip the week's pay remarks, has nothing to do with ship life. Loss of a week's pay will not ruin a person forever.[/quote]
It is easy to say go into survival mode when you are in your home, just like we had to last October when the lights went out after Sandy....and worse than the lights going out..we were freezing...starving..and smelly....and unable to get gas.

Yes, we went into survival mode, we went to restaurants, borrowed showers where ever possible, started traveling with a number of electronic charges so we had them if a a socket showed up.

We also had access to clean bathrooms and sanitary conditions...why? Because not everyone lost power that is why and we had the shelter of our homes, where clean clothes sit in drawers and meds in cabinets...

You sound as though these pax are just waiting out a blackout, they are sitting there in stiffling, smelly conditions, most of them with minimal stuff because it was only a 4 day quickie cruise!

We could light the fireplace...they are sleeping on deck, uncomfortably in the mattresses they dragged out of their smelly cabins. and we were with family and friends, they are with 4000 strangers, who may certainly be acting out by this time. Remember, it was a 4 day quicky cruise...the demographics are alot different than a Med cruise.

[Crusin6]

[quote name='Half Pint']I just read their time of arrival in Mobile is now Thursday afternoon.

Wasn't it supposed to be later today?[/quote]

I think Wednesday afternoon was when they were going to Progreso

[broberts]

[quote name='boo214'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=red]what about tampa? are they not closer to tampa, or are they too far west?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]

I've added Tampa. It's the purple line on [URL]https://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?msid=213696368617390101258.0004d5939e253a35dfa80&msa=0&ll=26.450902,-88.967285&spn=17.067219,18.391113[/URL]

About 6 hours more than Mobile from the yellow origin, longer from the blue.

[waldocruiser1]

[quote name='ruskatab']There would be too many problems to deal with if they did that. I dont think they could get 3000 more passengers on an already full ship and take them back to port. There is probably a maximum limit of passengers on the ship. Then you would have the problem of not enough supplies, compensating 6000 people for the trouble, getting people back to their home towns..the list goes on![/quote]

No the ship would be empty when it headed out to get the passengers from Triumph, the passengers that got delayed a day would be put up in a hotel for the night, just as has happend when a ship is delayed ariving for mechanical or weather problems, the point is they have a plan in place for when a ship is late coming by a day or two, and they could have used that emergency plan, and then used the empty ship as a "bus" to go out and get the passengers and crew (or part of the crew) off the broken ship.

It was just a thought, so everyone would be back on dry land, and not playing the wait and see if it gets worse game they are playing now.

But at this point lets hope it gets to shore safe and healthy, in the next day or two.

Just think, if they had used the Magic on Sunday as I discribed, all of the passengers would be back home by now, and the Magic passengers would be on the second day of their cruise, they (Magic passengers) could have gotten an OBC for the delay, and the Triumph passengers could have gotten a smaller discount on the future cruise, instead of all the extra costs being spent on the current triumph passengers at this point,

Also would have been a lot less PRESS involved, (BAD PRESS)

[jonbgd]

[quote name='waldocruiser1']BUT if they sound the signal to start loading and releasing the life boats,

The closest station is now my station, I would fight to the death (of others) to get my family on the nearest boat, because in that situation, the only ones that matter to me is MY family.

Flame me if you want, but if you do you are lieing to your self.[/quote]

Ive dealt with hysteria in mass casualty situations
First I would make sure whoever I am traveling with is safe than I would be assisting the elderly or others with limited mobility issues to safety.
Any one injured I would be helping them as well. Thats who I am.

[broberts]

[quote name='Crusin6']I think Wednesday afternoon was when they were going to Progreso[/quote]

That was a preliminary estimate. Given the currents and the point at which the tugs managed to intercept the ship I expect the tow would have taken much longer.

[Half Pint]

[quote name='Crusin6']I think Wednesday afternoon was when they were going to Progreso[/quote]

Ahh, thanks. :) I must have gotten the ports/days mixed up.

[Crusin6]

[quote name='ducklite']I don't think anyone is throwing poop.

What I expect we will learn from eye witnesses is...

There was a fire.

3000 passengers and most likely many crew members were forced from their cabins into public areas.

The sanitation system stopped working. There was no running water.

For at least 24 hours, no one was allowed back to cabins, and there were only the public toilets available.

Because they couldn't flush, those toilets quickly began to overflow. That situation was aggravated by the list of the ship.

Liquids will take the path of least resistance, and it's plausible that a virtual river of feces contaminated urine began to flow under doors soaking carpets and through seams down walls.

That sight and smell of that would cause nausea and vomiting to the average person. Stress and seasickness can also cause vomiting. I think it's safe to assume that there was vomit in public areas--you see it on cruises even when everything is going OK.

Once one person vomits, it often causes a chain reaction.

At some point the function of some toilets was restored, however the toilets in public areas were "swamped" by overflow both on and around the toilet.

At some point the crew instructed passengers to urinate in showers and defecate in bio-hazard bags.

I think that's a pretty good description of what we know and what is reasonable to assume.[/quote]


nail on the head Ducky!!!

[Aquahound]

[quote name='waldocruiser1']Just think, if they had used the Magic on Sunday as I discribed, all of the passengers would be back home by now.. [/quote]

Federal laws prevent a foreign flagged ship from being able to do that.

[crazyoldman75]

Just joined the forum, been trying to get some revelant info about the situation. My son is a staff member aboard the Triumph, this is the fourth ship he has been assinged to, many would say he has one of the very best jobs on the ship. I believe the fire is directly related to the earlier problems experienced in the engine room, probably electrical. The ship should not have been put out to sea, after the Jan. 28 cruise the ship's officers did not think it a wise to travel in that the ship could not go around a storm if necessary, this was the cruise with the unusal overnight in Progresso, but corporate thought otherwise. It seems that this ship has been limping along ever since.

[Crusin6]

[quote name='ducklite']That's ridiculous. Many people in their 80's remember WWII quite vividly and take cruises.[/quote]
anyone born in 1928 or earlier could have served in WW2

age 17 they took them

[foxesden1]

crazyoldman - thanks for joing us. :D

 

i am going to assume you are not going to say what your son does - just incase this has a back-lash on his position with the company. loose mouths.. and all that.. lol

 

please keep us posted and let us know when you hear anything

[Crusin6]

[quote name='ducklite']It's possible that they were using a bowl because there were no clean glasses. Sandwiches due to lack of utensils.[/quote]
you keep on using common sense!:D

[reallyitsmema]

[quote name='crazyoldman75']Just joined the forum, been trying to get some revelant info about the situation. My son is a staff member aboard the Triumph, this is the fourth ship he has been assinged to, many would say he has one of the very best jobs on the ship. I believe the fire is directly related to the earlier problems experienced in the engine room, probably electrical. The ship should not have been put out to sea, after the Jan. 28 cruise the ship's officers did not think it a wise to travel in that the ship could not go around a storm if necessary, this was the cruise with the unusal overnight in Progresso, but corporate thought otherwise. It seems that this ship has been limping along ever since.[/quote]
What is you son's position on the ship?

[RuthlessBoss]

[quote name='crazyoldman75']Just joined the forum, been trying to get some revelant info about the situation. My son is a staff member aboard the Triumph, this is the fourth ship he has been assinged to, many would say he has one of the very best jobs on the ship. I believe the fire is directly related to the earlier problems experienced in the engine room, probably electrical. The ship should not have been put out to sea, after the Jan. 28 cruise the ship's officers did not think it a wise to travel in that the ship could not go around a storm if necessary, this was the cruise with the unusal overnight in Progresso, but corporate thought otherwise. It seems that this ship has been limping along ever since.[/quote]
Hopefully he'll give some insight to what's happening. As you see, posters are giving their views based on how they visualize it in their head, or based on only a few 2nd hand reports based on only their perspective.

[4wheelr]

[quote name='Larlin']Those poor people, especially those with small children!! I can't imagine what they are going through. I just wonder how many of them will ever want to go on a cruise again.[/quote]

If it's free they will cruise again.

[waldocruiser1]

[quote name='broberts']I've added Tampa. It's the purple line on [URL]https://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?msid=213696368617390101258.0004d5939e253a35dfa80&msa=0&ll=26.450902,-88.967285&spn=17.067219,18.391113[/URL]

About 6 hours more than Mobile from the yellow origin, longer from the blue.[/quote]

Based on that map I would have wanted to go to Cuba it was a lot closer, and would have been more entertaining, while waiting to fly home,

When else could you say you were there.

[Gorki1951]

[quote name='RazorbackBelle08']I keep seeing all these posts about how the fire was caused by a known problem, engines will have to be replaced, there is extensive damage, and Carnival knew the ship wasn't seaworthy, etc etc etc

Do you guys have any PROOF of this? You're speculating. Show us some proof or stop saying stuff like that until you get the facts.

Again I'll reiterate I am NOT a Carnival cheerleader; I've been on one cruise with them. Yeah, it was wonderful. After this I'm wary of using them again. However until we get all of the FACTS people need to stop making baseless accusations because you have NO idea what caused the fire, how much damage there is or what Carnival knew and didn't know! PLEASE! Let's keep this thread to facts![/QUOTE]

I took the information from a post on another CC thread. You can see the post here [url]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1663890&page=44[/url]
It is the second post on that page. One thing I do know is that there is a reason that fires start in engine rooms. They don´t just start because everything is correct.

[MissMeggieMurphy]

[quote name='crazyoldman75']Just joined the forum, been trying to get some revelant info about the situation. My son is a staff member aboard the Triumph, this is the fourth ship he has been assinged to, many would say he has one of the very best jobs on the ship. I believe the fire is directly related to the earlier problems experienced in the engine room, probably electrical. The ship should not have been put out to sea, after the Jan. 28 cruise the ship's officers did not think it a wise to travel in that the ship could not go around a storm if necessary, this was the cruise with the unusal overnight in Progresso, but corporate thought otherwise. It seems that this ship has been limping along ever since.[/QUOTE]

forgive me if i am wrong but doesn't the eventual shipworthiness fall to the captain to decide. if he thinks it is unsafe he just doesn't take it out. that's his job. if he bowed to the pressures of the ship's owner than he isn't up to his assigned job and should be relieved of his command. it's like a pilot of a plane flying equipment he deems unsafe. if the plane crashes and he knew it was unsafe to fly then the crash was his fault. no guts no glory, no guts suffer the consequences.

[gjsmth]

[quote name='crazyoldman75']Just joined the forum, been trying to get some revelant info about the situation. My son is a staff member aboard the Triumph, this is the fourth ship he has been assinged to, many would say he has one of the very best jobs on the ship. I believe the fire is directly related to the earlier problems experienced in the engine room, probably electrical. The ship should not have been put out to sea, after the Jan. 28 cruise the ship's officers did not think it a wise to travel in that the ship could not go around a storm if necessary, this was the cruise with the unusal overnight in Progresso, but corporate thought otherwise. It seems that this ship has been limping along ever since.[/QUOTE]

Maybe the corp. brass will now wake up and put safety, security and passengers in front of greed and profits. Not...
It just irks me that if there was an issue and Carnival decided to keep running the Triumph into the ground, shame on them.

[Jimsgirl]

[quote name='cruiseflyer38']WW2 ended in 1945, don't think many survivors will be on a Carnival ship.[/QUOTE]

I am STILL HERE!

87 tomorrow, survived London Blitz, (East End Dockland ) V1's ( "Doodlebugs") and V2's. Worked in office by day, nursed in hospitals, Air raid shelters by night and manned ambulances carrying wounded service men at weekends. Later drove 3 ton trucks in Womens Royal Air Force, then was a military wife for over 30 years.

Will be on Cunard QE in three weeks time, 2014 is still a matter for thought, the spirit is willing but confess body is feeling its age.

I am sorry for the passengers on Triumph, sure there are quite a few not behaving well.

What caused the problem? I do not think we will ever get the true story, just that the spin doctor tells us, but: -

"If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, looks and behaves like a duck , then it is 99% likely to be a duck."

[waldocruiser1]

[quote name='jonbgd']Ive dealt with hysteria in mass casualty situations
First I would make sure whoever I am traveling with is safe than I would be assisting the elderly or others with limited mobility issues to safety.
Any one injured I would be helping them as well. Thats who I am.[/quote]

Right, and who did you say you would help first? the people you are traveling with.

Me too,

If I could get to my station, that is what I would do, but I sure would not walk past life boats getting loaded, to get to my station that might be quite a distance, or on the other side of the ship.

[ducklite]

[quote name='jwalk03'][quote name='ducklite'] Maybe you work for minimum wage, but the mean income for a working adult in the US works out to more than the cost of a suite on a four day cruise on the Triumph. So for most people on that cruise, they are out more in wages/vacation pay then what the cruise credit is worth. quote]

US Median Houshold Income: $50,502
$50,502/ 52 weeks = $971 per week BEFORE taxes. Take out another 20% (A very low ball estimate, depending on where you live) for Federal Income, FICA, State Income, Local taxes = $777

The cheapest suite on Carnival Triumph is $789 per person, plus port fees, taxes, and gratuities, so its really more than that.

Also that income figure is based on HOUSEHOLD income, not individual, so really you should count 2 cruise fares for comparisons in most cases, but either way what Carnival is offering is worth more than a week's pay for the average American worker.[/QUOTE]

Household income is moot as it includes retirees, people on welfare, etc.

You need to use the median income of adult workers.

From the US Government, most recent number is late 2012. Median usual weekly earnings of full-time wage and salary workers is $772. The offer from Carnival doesn't replace lost wages.

[url]http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf[/url]

Let's say the scheduled cruise is $500 a person. They are getting that back. That's a wash, although I'd argue that it was also a week of wasted vacation time.

There are also costs that Carnival is not refunding such as travel insurance and pet sitting, etc.

Now on to the extra four days. There are costs to the average passenger associated with those days that sea that they didn't want. (I'm leaving the emotion out of this--this is strictly a financial discussion)

They have lost wages or had to use vacation time that isn't "free," it's got the same value as wages.

They could have additional costs such as pet care, additional parking fees, etc.

They are being offered a cruise credit. They might not want to use that credit, or be able to use that credit. There will be additional costs related to taking another cruise.

Even if they choose to use it, they would again have to take time off. The cruise credit does not replace lost wages or other costs incurred.