Things being Discontinued the Fall?

[startwin]

[quote name='Wakepatrol']We don't spend much either a drink here or there a specialty coffee and the t-pool.

Most of HALS revenue comes from those that bring their own beverages aboard.

Don't you know that every cruiser who totes cases of wine aboard also has a $1000 bar tab.[/quote]


Really??? Have you checked?

[cruiserzoid]

I doubt formal night will go. Maybe scaled back; but, not go away. It is photo-opportunity which translated to money-making opportunity. They may cut surf and turf and shrimp cocktail portion sizes; but, I believe they will want you dressed up and hope you select a photo session or buy a photo.

[Wakepatrol]

[quote name='startwin']Really??? Have you checked?[/quote]


No I've "read"
you should try it sometime

[Wastegirl]

Being relatively new to cruising and I can say that HAL's wine policy was one of the major factors that attracted us to them rather than, Celebrity for instance. Other things did of course but when we look at other cruise lines to book my DH always comes back to HAL because of their wine policy. If they got rid of this they would seriously have to improve their wine list which we found very lacklustre and very expensive for what was on offer compared to the wine's land (or even restaurant) price.

However I am not adverse to them charging a corkage fee for every bottle we bring on board as this would mean we could then take our wine to any venue or sitting area we want and it would stop unscrupulous people from trying to smuggle their wine about the ship. For HAL it would be a straight profit with little or no overheads involved to make up for the lack of wine sales. Also if they charged for every bottle, maybe if you are someone who brings quite a bit on board you could be given a corkage discount.

We still have a reasonable sized bar bill because I love my cocktails and DH enjoys a good whisky.

In regard to the HSC, when we look on line the Australian Princess cruises are always a few hundred dollars more expensive, that is because there is a No Tipping policy, the extra staffing wages are included in the cruise up front. I think this is a good idea because in Australia especially people are not expecting the HSC and maybe naively don't even know anything about a tipping culture and quite often it comes as a big shock at the end of their carefully budgeted holiday. But that is me being naive because every other cruise line would have to do the same and stop hiding the extra cost.

I like the idea of the questionnaire going on line, I really didn't want to bother with it on the last day and once home feel I could have given a more thoughtful review. Maybe give a small incentive to fill it in, an extra point on your Mariner status for instance.

[ellieanne]

[quote name='Wastegirl']In regard to the HSC, when we look on line the Australian Princess cruises are always a few hundred dollars more expensive, that is because there is a No Tipping policy, the extra staffing wages are included in the cruise up front. I think this is a good idea because in Australia especially people are not expecting the HSC and maybe naively don't even know anything about a tipping culture and quite often it comes as a big shock at the end of their carefully budgeted holiday. But that is me being naive because every other cruise line would have to do the same and stop hiding the extra cost.[/QUOTE]

I think pricing and consumer protection rules in Australia should prevent this, even if the Hotel Service Charge is not included in the advertised price. As I understand it, the entire out-of-pocket charge must be detailed before the consumer makes final payment. It can be in small print, and does not have to be expressly explained, but if you look for it, the total charge will be listed somewhere, including port charges/taxes. When I was looking at my upcoming cruise with an Australian travel agent, the charges were listed, but I had to read the entire packet to find them all. I know it is for everything else I have seen. I really wish that kind of up-front charge listing would be adopted in the US. There really is no way of hiding the charges the way the Australian Consumer laws are written.

I asked the travel agent about on board purchases and shore excursions and was told they are not required charges, and thus do not have to be included in the fare charge literature.

[Wastegirl]

[quote name='ellieanne']I think pricing and consumer protection rules in Australia should prevent this, even if the Hotel Service Charge is not included in the advertised price. As I understand it, the entire out-of-pocket charge must be detailed before the consumer makes final payment. It can be in small print, and does not have to be expressly explained, but if you look for it, the total charge will be listed somewhere, including port charges/taxes. When I was looking at my upcoming cruise with an Australian travel agent, the charges were listed, but I had to read the entire packet to find them all. I know it is for everything else I have seen. I really wish that kind of up-front charge listing would be adopted in the US. There really is no way of hiding the charges the way the Australian Consumer laws are written.

I asked the travel agent about on board purchases and shore excursions and was told they are not required charges, and thus do not have to be included in the fare charge literature.[/QUOTE]

Elliene, while this is true about our laws, on the Australian cruise sites you don't see the HSC charge as part of the cruise price when you are booking. It can make, for the novice, some cruises look quite a bit cheaper and its not until they are 'hooked' that they realise about this extra charge. Don't get me wrong I actually found the HSC convenient rather that the whole 'tipping' thing which I would have found very uncormfotable. It is a reasonable compromise for people from non tipping cultures but it does give the option to opt out, which you can't do (at least I don't think you can) on an Australian Princess Ship a sit is built into the actual cost of the cruise.

[lovetocruise2020]

[quote name='peaches from georgia']I'm sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about re Seabourn bathrooms and your info is VERY outdated and incorrect. The SB 'Little Sisters' are all to be sold and will no longer be in the SB fleet of ships. The newer and larger ships which have been sailing for the last 5 years or so, the Odyssey, Sojourn, and Quest, are absolutely gorgeous with bathrooms as large and luxurious as many new homes- all beautiful granite from ceiling to floor, double sinks, very large granite separate showers similar in size and luxury to what you might in your bathroom at home, a separate jetted tub, and a private water closet with sink with an additional entry from the hall so you can use it as a powder room for guests and close off the bathroom itself. This is a typical bathroom in a typical suite on the SB ships that are now and will be in service in the future. All cabins are suites.

Also, the alternative restaurants vary their menus among many different cuisines and there are many nights of Pan Asian on the typical SB cruise. No cabanas, but with only 400 pax (and few to no kids) there is no lack of quiet or fighting for space at the peaceful pool area.[/quote]


The Spirit is outdated and incorrect? It is still a functioning ship, selling Seaborn cruises... Are you talking about beyond 2013? Because they have not advertised Caribbean 2014 (fall)... Lets just talk about what has been released...
The Spirit, is exactly what I have stated. And I promise you, I know what I am talking about when it comes to that ship.
The Sojourn was not an option at all.

Lets be honest, when it comes to Seaborn, one can sail in the PH on one of HAL's newest ships and still have 2 k to spend onboard and be far ahead of Seaborn. Again, we sail for the cabin, what is offered on the ship, and what we can buy to enhcance our cruise. Do we care about guest count? Nope. We would sail. mega-ships if if had what we wanted, and we are...

For us, if cabanas are not available, then we are absolutely not interested. If you wake up at 11 am, good luck finding a nice lounger whatever line you are on.

[lovetocruise2020]

[quote name='surfergirle']The Spirit is outdated and incorrect? It is still a functioning ship, selling Seaborn cruises... Are you talking about beyond 2013? Because they have not advertised Caribbean 2014 (fall)... Lets just talk about what has been released...
The Spirit, is exactly what I have stated. And I promise you, I know what I am talking about when it comes to that ship.
The Sojourn was not an option at all.

Lets be honest, when it comes to Seaborn, one can sail in the PH on one of HAL's newest ships and still have 2 k to spend onboard and be far ahead of Seaborn. Again, we sail for the cabin, what is offered on the ship, and what we can buy to enhcance our cruise. Do we care about guest count? Nope. We would sail. mega-ships if if had what we wanted, and we are...

For us, if cabanas are not available, then we are absolutely not interested. If you wake up at 11 am, good luck finding a nice lounger whatever line you are on.[/quote]

sorry for spelling, i am on my tablet, and its too late to correct.

[hrhdhd]

[quote name='cruisemom42']While I am not the poster you asked, I suspect it is the idea of "noblesse oblige" -- the concept that the elite of society have a responsibility to help the less fortunate by handing out largesse (like generous tips).[/quote]

Yes. Nicely stated. One can add more to the HSC at the front desk and the crew still gets the money. Some seem to like handing out wads of cash in person to get the reaction, which must increase their self-esteem or something.

[sail7seas]

[quote name='hrhdhd']Yes. Nicely stated. One can add more to the HSC at the front desk and the crew still gets the money. Some seem to like handing out wads of cash in person to get the reaction, which must increase their self-esteem or something.[/quote]


[B] This is so insulting and you are stating a disceptive method for providing additional tips to those who served us well.

IF you add more cash to HSC at the front desk, you will be providing more to be distributed among all crew who share in the tips. That is not the goal many of us have. We leave the HSC in place for the shared tipping but we then wish to tip extra to the particular individuals who actually gave us the excellent service in our cabin, MDR, at our favorite lounge and anyone else we wish to provide additional thanks. The ONLY way to do that is to give it from you to them directly. You cannot go through the front office to provide extra tips to specific crew.

Hopefully, this helps you understand why people who tip extra to their stewards are not acting in a way you charge. It amazes me when someone here will find a way to punish any 'good deed'.

It's a rock and a hard place.
People who don't tip get slammed.
People who do tip get slammed.
Always someone ready to find an unpleasant slam.



[quote name='hrhdhd'] <snip> ........, handing out wads of cash in person to get the reaction, which must increase their self-esteem or something.

[/quote]


What additional tips increase is the income of hard working stewards, bartenders and various crew earn.
It may also increase the pride and satisfaction those crew persons have in the good work they do and the kind service they provide.


[/B]

[kazu]

[quote name='hrhdhd']Yes. Nicely stated. One can add more to the HSC at the front desk and the crew still gets the money. Some seem to like handing out wads of cash in person to get the reaction, which must increase their self-esteem or something.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, you can't add to the HSC to give extra to specific people. That is shared among all the crew.

We give extra tips to specific people who have made our cruise special through service, etc. The only way you can do that is to pass the $$ unfortunately.

It has nothing to do with self esteem - it has to do with getting the additional $$ to the right person.

If that's something you choose not to do, that's fine - but please don't criticize those that do.

[Jo-Bob]

[quote name='Krazy Kruizers'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]I read that!![/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]I think it is terrible that the crew talk to sail7seas and her husband about other passengers.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]That has my blood rolling.[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

It's possible, perhaps, that crew have mentioned the PRACTICE, and not specifically WHO....

Doubt very much it's as you fear.

[scdreamer]

[quote name='kazu']Sorry, you can't add to the HSC to give extra to specific people. That is shared among all the crew.

We give extra tips to specific people who have made our cruise special through service, etc. The only way you can do that is to pass the $$ unfortunately.

[B]It has nothing to do with self esteem - it has to do with getting the additional $$ to the right person.[/B]

If that's something you choose not to do, that's fine - but please don't criticize those that do.[/quote]

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

Over the years when we stay in hotels on land, we have always left a tip for the housekeeper. In past years we used to leave it in the room with a short note of thanks (to be sure they didn't think it was money accidentally left behind), but I read in a travel article that quite often supervising staff or others who might enter the room before the actual cleaner would take the tip, so now we wait until we see the person who cleans the room and hand the gratuity directly over. It's never made us or the person on the receiving end feel embarrassed.

[dr.dawg]

frankly, hal has, over the last fifteen years, cut back on or negated just about everything i loved about the line. i am, you cheerleaders, not trying to denegrate or defame your beloved hal. just saying that it is time to explore other vacation possibilities. a hal cruise has, gruadually, become a chore rather than a pleasure. a duty rather than a priviledge. now, instead of paying for a vacation in relative peace and comfort, i'm responsible for paying for crew/staff families back home; giving great reviews for mediocre mdr food, poor service in lido, paying extra for good coffee, having to endure poor entertainment and no strings in the lounge, lousy looking flowers if there are any fresh ones anymore, and on and on. could someone explain to me, without bashing me, i've had plenty of that, just why i should be the hal cheerleader i was ten or fifteen years ago? or why i should continue to cruise with hal, though i am a 4-star and like the free laundry -- but that's likely to go, also. ? just a short, non-hate answer, please.

[jimmy2x]

I think it needs to be said that how people conduct themselves aboard ship has nothing to do with how much money they have (or tell you they have). Class has nothing to do with money as most of us have observed at one time or another.

How much money anyone spends aboard is nobody's business but their own.

I would whole-hardheartedly agree with making the HSC a mandatory service charge - unfortunately some people can justify their cheap and cheesy behavior by any minor real or perceived short-coming.

One of the charms (and pitfalls) of cruising is that, for the most part, one will never see their fellow cruisers again. Unfortunately, this gives "cover" to those who lack the grace and class to conduct themselves in any accepted manner. Not that folks like that care - this is the way they conduct themselves everyday - and get away with it.

The perceived anonymity of being a cruise passenger is much like internet forums. And, as we all know, "On the Internet, nobody knows your a dog".

[jtl513]

[quote name='dr.dawg'] or why i should continue to cruise with hal, [/quote]IMO you shouldn't. You are too soured, and nothing they could do would please you now. Good luck with some other cruise line.

[quote name='jimmy2x']I would whole-hardheartedly agree with making the HSC a mandatory service charge - [/quote]They can't do that. If in rare circumstances somebody doesn't get adequate service they shouldn't have to pay for it. They could build it into the price, like a hotel, but unless all cruise lines did that it would hurt HAL competitiveness.

[sapper1]

[quote name='dr.dawg']frankly, hal has, over the last fifteen years, cut back on or negated just about everything i loved about the line. i am, you cheerleaders, not trying to denegrate or defame your beloved hal. just saying that it is time to explore other vacation possibilities. a hal cruise has, gruadually, become a chore rather than a pleasure. a duty rather than a priviledge. now, instead of paying for a vacation in relative peace and comfort, i'm responsible for paying for crew/staff families back home; giving great reviews for mediocre mdr food, poor service in lido, paying extra for good coffee, having to endure poor entertainment and no strings in the lounge, lousy looking flowers if there are any fresh ones anymore, and on and on. could someone explain to me, without bashing me, i've had plenty of that, just why i should be the hal cheerleader i was ten or fifteen years ago? or why i should continue to cruise with hal, though i am a 4-star and like the free laundry -- but that's likely to go, also. ? just a short, non-hate answer, please.[/QUOTE]
I am cheerily suggesting you move over to Trip Advisor and then you can find a land based vacation which will make you happy. You might even find some posters you like. :D

[dr.dawg]

oh, i don't think that is true at all. i only consult my ta about hal cruises. there is a great difference between being 'soured', as you so put it, and wishing my line of first choice could do a little better. 'soured' is a judgement you have chosen to make. 'disappointed' would be a better word. am i the only 'disappointed' one? well, maybe. who knows?

[SilvertoGold]

I think mandatory HSC would be a very good idea. I really do not like the idea of pax cancelling this unless for really serious reasons, and I doubt that happens very often.

The only draw back I see is a return to times past (how about that!) when "tipping was not required" and the crew went out of their way to ensure you felt you should tip them. Not that we didn't, but it was like being asked/begged for 9s on the survey: we were never comfortable with it.

[LindaM]

I firmly believe the service charge should NOT be allowed to be removed. Whether you think they did a good job or not, the service was still performed. We had less than stellar service on Regent. The service charge could not be removed. I kept notes on the people who did a great job and included them in my final evaluation.

To say that people who want to bring wine on have a drinking problem is ridiculous. Of course it is possible, but people like to buy local wines. I like to have a glass of wine while watching HAL's great DVD's before bed. When we were younger, we'd hang out in the lounges or dance. I would guess that a lot of HAL's older crowd are like me.

And, most importantly---I like to save $$$ when I can. I can afford to sail on luxury lines, but like saving $$ by sailing on HAL. If I can't have my before bedtime wine, I may as well sail on Regent, where DH has his single malt in the room, and I have my wine,along with a stocked fridge!! I refuse to pay a $15 corkage fee for every bottle of wine I bring onboard. A Regent cruise would probably end up being cheaper, especially since HAL charges a lot more than most cruiselines for a balcony cabin!! We are paying $4000 extra for a balcony on Prinsendam. Not exactly a bargain...

[PunkiC]

As you can see from my signature, we have been primarily Princess cruisers and will be taking our first Princess cruise where they charge the $15.00 per bottle corkage fee in August. We don't mind the fees and will be bringing a case of wine on board to share with our friends with whom we have adjoining cabins. We actually kind of like the corkage fee because that frees us up to take our own wine anywhere on the ship that we would like to take it.

In October we will be taking our first long (well relatively long) HAL cruise but it has nothing to do with HAL's liberal wine policy. We just got a smoking deal on a balcony for a Rome/Fort Lauderdale cruise, were able to find award air tickets, and decided to go for it.

We will miss all of the generous OBC and free laundry and internet that we get on Princess, but love the beautiful ambiance and great dance music on HAL, as well as the fact that we can attend daily Mass. I will also miss the wonderful Princess Pizza--my favorite--but am sure I will find lots of wonderful things to eat on HAL as well.

When you remove the auto tip on Princess, anything you give an individual crew member has to be put back in the pot to be split up among the crew. Does it work that way on HAL? Not that we would ever remove the auto tip (those guys all work hard for their money) . We just leave it on and then tip extra for extra service. We have never had a steward who didn't deserve an extra tip.

[DaveOKC]

[quote name='LindaM']I firmly believe the service charge should NOT be allowed to be removed. Whether you think they did a good job or not, the service was still performed. We had less than stellar service on Regent. The service charge could not be removed.[/QUOTE]

Your comment points out exactly what is wrong with a fixed service charge.... there is little incentive for the crew to go the extra mile, they often just do the minimum that is required. This is just human nature I guess.

DaveOKC

[LAFFNVEGAS]

[quote name='DaveOKC']Your comment points out exactly what is wrong with a fixed service charge.... there is little incentive for the crew to go the extra mile, they often just do the minimum that is required. This is just human nature I guess.

DaveOKC[/QUOTE]
[SIZE="3"]Dave I must humbly disagree. NCL does not allow for the HSC to be removed and it works quite well for them . In all honesty I find their service to be superior in almost all areas especially when comparing Suite to Suites. [/SIZE]

[DaveOKC]

[quote name='LAFFNVEGAS'][SIZE="3"]Dave I must humbly disagree. NCL does not allow for the HSC to be removed and it works quite well for them . In all honesty I find their service to be superior in almost all areas especially when comparing Suite to Suites. [/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Lisa - I am glad to hear that it is working for them. I love the idea, but as I mentioned, I am afraid that service levels will decline. Must be due to good management - good for NCL!

Dave

[LindaM]

[quote name='DaveOKC']Your comment points out exactly what is wrong with a fixed service charge.... there is little incentive for the crew to go the extra mile, they often just do the minimum that is required. This is just human nature I guess.

DaveOKC[/QUOTE]

Yes, it's human nature. I heard it was only an issue on this particular ship, so I would put the blame on the supervisors. If their employees think they can slack without repercussion, the top is to blame, IMHO.