Noordam: Broken Toilet, Cold Showers, and a missed port to save money!

[cruisemom42]

Because there are plenty of other opportunities already out there to pay more i, I am glad HAL has held the line and is still offering a solid travel bargain.

 

So yes, count us among those who don't mind the occasional glitches as part of the price we pay for still being able to sail HAL ships to their wonderful choices of ports and small size ships.

 

Ah, but you see....there are actually OTHER lines that offer small ship cruises with wonderful itineraries and at prices comparable to HAL's prices if you look for them.

 

I have taken 3 trips on Voyages to Antiquity's Aegean Odyssey -- a 350 passenger ship with some wonderful European and occasional Asian itineraries. It just so happens that back in 2010 I took two cruises within a few weeks of each other with very similar itineraries and the same length. One was on a HAL ship (Westerdam) and the other on V2A. When you equalized all expenses (V2A includes all gratuities, shore excursions, wine with dinner, etc), the V2A cruise was actually slightly less expensive.

 

And....I didn't have to put up with any occasional "glitches".

 

V2A also offers wonderful expert speakers onboard. My two HAL European cruises did not.

[OlsSalt]

Ah, but you see....there are actually OTHER lines that offer small ship cruises with wonderful itineraries and at prices comparable to HAL's prices if you look for them.

 

I have taken 3 trips on Voyages to Antiquity's Aegean Odyssey -- a 350 passenger ship with some wonderful European and occasional Asian itineraries. It just so happens that back in 2010 I took two cruises within a few weeks of each other with very similar itineraries and the same length. One was on a HAL ship (Westerdam) and the other on V2A. When you equalized all expenses (V2A includes all gratuities, shore excursions, wine with dinner, etc), the V2A cruise was actually slightly less expensive.

 

And....I didn't have to put up with any occasional "glitches".

 

V2A also offers wonderful expert speakers onboard. My two HAL European cruises did not.

 

For comparison purposes: VTA to Prinsendam for 28 day cruises: http://us.voyagestoantiquity.com/cruises/everything-in-alexandria-was-superlative-490/cabin-fares.html?date=2014-03-21#tabs

[TomAmes]

As someone who recently completed my first cruise (on HAL, incidentally), this thread has seriously dampened my enthusiasm for cruising again anytime soon. I am completely baffled by a couple of the reactions in this thread and can't understand that attitude coming from anyone who isn't an employee or a major stockholder in a poorly run company (not intimating that HAL is such a company).

 

If experiences that OP is enduring are not extraordinary occurrences that should be remedied much more expeditiously, then cruising is probably not for me.

 

OP, I'm glad to read that you are still having a great time despite all the inconvenience. You're a much more tolerant person than I.

[OlsSalt]

As someone who recently completed my first cruise (on HAL, incidentally), this thread has seriously dampened my enthusiasm for cruising again anytime soon. I am completely baffled by a couple of the reactions in this thread and can't understand that attitude coming from anyone who isn't an employee or a major stockholder in a poorly run company (not intimating that HAL is such a company).

 

If experiences that OP is enduring are not extraordinary occurrences that should be remedied much more expeditiously, then cruising is probably not for me.

 

OP, I'm glad to read that you are still having a great time despite all the inconvenience. You're a much more tolerant person than I.

 

 

It will be interesting to read any follow up cruise reviews for this trip. Often one read polar opposites of reactions for the exact same cruise.

[CowPrincess]

It will be interesting to read any follow up cruise reviews for this trip. Often one read polar opposites of reactions for the exact same cruise.

 

 

Some of the different perspectives may in fact be based on whether or not the reviewer had a functioning toilet and/or air conditioning.

 

If my AC and toilet are working on a cruise, my opinion might differ substantially from the opinion of someone who was forced into using public restrooms because their cabin plumbing was not functioning.

 

There are lots of complaints that can be rebutted, but a non-working freaking cabin toilet for EIGHT DAYS is not one of them IMHO.

[OlsSalt]

Some of the different perspectives may in fact be based on whether or not the reviewer had a functioning toilet and/or air conditioning.

 

If my AC and toilet are working on a cruise, my opinion might differ substantially from the opinion of someone who was forced into using public restrooms because their cabin plumbing was not functioning.

 

There are lots of complaints that can be rebutted, but a non-working freaking cabin toilet for EIGHT DAYS is not one of them IMHO.

 

Sigh. Is non-working occasional delay flush or 100% non-working?

[Cindy]

so well said I just have to - [ATTACH]281265[/ATTACH]

 

Ditto!:D

This thread takes me back well over a year, to the time when DH and I were planning our HAL cruise. It was to be an 11-Night Panama Canal cruise on the Zuiderdam for our 25th Anniversary. That was during the time when the Zuiderdam was having some pretty major and persistent problems with mechanical systems, including air conditioning and plumbing. The final straw for me was Startwin's detailed live report of the problems with her cabin on the trans-canal in April of 2012. I jumped ship, so to speak, because I decided that I wanted to lessen the risk of my anniversary cruise being marred by major issues on the ship.

Unfortunately, if you changed the name of the OP, this is Startwin's thread repeating itself. At the time, she was attacked by many people for having unrealistic expectations. I was called a HAL hater and told to get lost (by someone I haven't seen on Cruise Critic for a while). I was actually told that functioning plumbing and air conditioning shouldn't be expected to be provided, so if I got those things I was fortunate.:confused:

Here's my question...why are people so blindly loyal to a cruise line (or any company for that matter) that they accuse anyone with a legitimate complaint of exaggerating (at best) or out and out lying? I'm not talking about people who only find their way to CC when they have a complaint -- I'm talking about experienced cruisers who present the good with the bad, yet they're lambasted for suggesting anything about HAL has room for improvement. Don't people want their favorite line to look for places they can improve the product and make the experience even better?

I don't really have a point in posting this...just venting, I guess. I wish we could have more threads where we try to answer questions and help people and fewer where every other post questions the OP and makes statements in blind defense of a cruise line.:(

[stlouistravelers]

I'll echo what Kazu said but will add that Monaco is a very tiny harbour with zero room to spare in the event of a sudden thunderstorm with wind. The Noordam is very high sided and susceptible. The harbour is packed with large pleasure yachts and there isn't the slightest room for error.

 

The Captain cancelled based on the forecast and those of us who live on the coast know you can go from millpond conditions to a raging storm in ten minutes or less.

 

The captain of the Concordia was an idiot. The captain of the Noordam was acting responsibly and deserves an apology for being called an idiot on a public forum.

 

I do sympathise with the rest of your issues and maybe if those things were not angering you, you may have been kinder to the captain.

 

Madam

While I admire your attempt to stand up to the captain I think it is misguided. I too am a Captain but of a different type of ship. I believe a responsible and toughtful Captain should have delivered the news himself since it involved such a large number of passengers and if there was a misperception it could have been cleared up. It also could have been handled by deck personnel better. While the word "idiot" is a strong discriptor of this Captain I can't disagree with the assessment of the OP. The Captain is responsible for anything and everything that happens under his/her command, therefore the discontent and loss of future passengers is on the Captain. I am now reconsidering my decision to sail with this carrier for my January cruise.

[OlsSalt]

People reading more into other people's post than what is actually being said is where many of these threads go off their tracks. (See above)

[CowPrincess]

Sigh. Is non-working occasional delay flush or 100% non-working?

 

Perhaps the answer to that is in "the eye of the beholder", or in this case, "the eye of the victim".

 

Nothing I will say will change your mind.

[kazu]

For comparison purposes: VTA to Prinsendam for 28 day cruises: http://us.voyagestoantiquity.com/cruises/everything-in-alexandria-was-superlative-490/cabin-fares.html?date=2014-03-21#tabs

 

I already went and looked. I did my comparison. considering they include a great hotel in the price, air, along with shore excursions, wine with lunch and dinner - they have got Prinsendam pricing beat in my category at least. Now, that is of course assuming you want and need all those things;)

 

I suspect as well if you don't take their air the price goes down.

 

I thank cruisemom42 for the post:D

[sapper1]

Madam

While I admire your attempt to stand up to the captain I think it is misguided. I too am a Captain but of a different type of ship. I believe a responsible and toughtful Captain should have delivered the news himself since it involved such a large number of passengers and if there was a misperception it could have been cleared up. It also could have been handled by deck personnel better. While the word "idiot" is a strong discriptor of this Captain I can't disagree with the assessment of the OP. The Captain is responsible for anything and everything that happens under his/her command, therefore the discontent and loss of future passengers is on the Captain. I am now reconsidering my decision to sail with this carrier for my January cruise.

 

I do certainly agree that the captain should have addressed the passengers. There is no argument there. My issue was in calling him an idiot for his operational decisions when the OP was not privy to all the facts. Idiot is a pretty strong word.

[OlsSalt]

Perhaps the answer to that is in "the eye of the beholder", or in this case, "the eye of the victim".

 

Nothing I will say will change your mind.

 

In our case, it was both: we have had delay flush toilets so we were beholder of reports about "non-working toilets" as well as victims of delay-flush toilets.

 

Back up a bit and realize all I have been asking is what exactly is a "non-working toilet". And also recognize the role of both timing and perception plays in answering that query. Indeed, how long an interval or frequency of this occurrence that takes a nuisance into becoming a primary dysfunction.

 

So in fact I agree with you, it depends.

[OlsSalt]

I already went and looked. I did my comparison. considering they include a great hotel in the price, air, along with shore excursions, wine with lunch and dinner - they have got Prinsendam pricing beat in my category at least. Now, that is of course assuming you want and need all those things;)

 

I suspect as well if you don't take their air the price goes down.

 

I thank cruisemom42 for the post:D

 

Keep digging, compare cabin sizes and be sure to look at reports about VTA under "other cruise lines". Six of one, half dozen of other.

[SilvertoGold]

Because there are plenty of other opportunities already out there to pay more i, I am glad HAL has held the line and is still offering a solid travel bargain.

 

So yes, count us among those who don't mind the occasional glitches as part of the price we pay for still being able to sail HAL ships to their wonderful choices of ports and small size ships.

 

Ole Salt:

 

Well said. That sums it up! I agree. And with all your previous posts, as well. Thanks for providing another angle on this thread in a reasonable and rational manner. Much appreciated!

[cruisemom42]

I already went and looked. I did my comparison. considering they include a great hotel in the price, air, along with shore excursions, wine with lunch and dinner - they have got Prinsendam pricing beat in my category at least. Now, that is of course assuming you want and need all those things;)

 

I suspect as well if you don't take their air the price goes down.

 

I thank cruisemom42 for the post:D

 

Yes, in fact, the cost goes down if you do not want to include the air, and you can also choose not to include their pre- or post-cruise hotel for another reduction in the fare.

 

Of course, their pricing isn't going to beat HAL's on every cruise for every category (I tend to book insides and V2A also generally has a low solo supplement). My intention in posting wasn't to start a discussion of how well any other line stacks up against HAL but merely to suggest that HAL is not always the only option out there for great itineraries at reasonable cost.

[arewethereyet]

 

Here's my question...why are people so blindly loyal to a cruise line (or any company for that matter) that they accuse anyone with a legitimate complaint of exaggerating (at best) or out and out lying? I'm not talking about people who only find their way to CC when they have a complaint -- I'm talking about experienced cruisers who present the good with the bad, yet they're lambasted for suggesting anything about HAL has room for improvement. Don't people want their favorite line to look for places they can improve the product and make the experience even better?

 

I don't really have a point in posting this...just venting, I guess. I wish we could have more threads where we try to answer questions and help people and fewer where every other post questions the OP and makes statements in blind defense of a cruise line.:(

Forgive me for snipping part of your post, but this is a greeeeeat question. Loyalty often involves developing a deep emotional attachment to a product, brand political party, etc. Rationality becomes useless when people willingly blind themselves to the faults of said products, brands, political parties, etc. Anything percieved to be negative (true, or not) becomes a personal attack on that person on an emotional level. At that point, reasoning becomes very difficult. Basically, it can be voiced as "I have too much emotionally invested in this to be wrong.....even if I know I am".

 

We are all probably guilty of it at some point in our lives....maybe even multiple times. We are on the HAL board, you're gonna see what some call "cheerleaders". If you go to the other cruise line boards, you will see the same thing. It's not specific to HAL. It's what people do, and it can be frustrating.

[OlsSalt]

Forgive me for snipping part of your post, but this is a greeeeeat question. Loyalty often involves developing a deep emotional attachment to a product, brand political party, etc. Rationality becomes useless when people willingly blind themselves to the faults of said products, brands, political parties, etc. Anything percieved to be negative (true, or not) becomes a personal attack on that person on an emotional level. At that point, reasoning becomes very difficult. Basically, it can be voiced as "I have too much emotionally invested in this to be wrong.....even if I know I am".

 

We are all probably guilty of it at some point in our lives....maybe even multiple times. We are on the HAL board, you're gonna see what some call "cheerleaders". If you go to the other cruise line boards, you will see the same thing. It's not specific to HAL. It's what people do, and it can be frustrating.

 

Be open to seeing this as a justice and fairness issue as well. There is reason to be emotionally committed to those principles in any discussion and will vigorously defend a sense of fair play, particularly when the other side can't step in to defend themselves. The phenomenon of piling-on, ganging-up rattles sensibilities too. You are correct; the resultant meltdowns do then get a life of their own.

[arewethereyet]

Be open to seeing this as a justice and fairness issue as well. There is reason to be emotionally committed to those principles in any discussion and will vigorously defend a sense of fair play, particularly when the other side can't step in to defend themselves. The phenomenon of piling-on, ganging-up rattles sensibilities too. You are correct; the resultant meltdowns do then get a life of their own.

The question was why people have blind loyalties.

[iancal]

We don't actually view HAL as a solid travel bargain any more-when we compare it to land based vacations or to other cruises. We used to but that has past. HAL is trading on it's reputation not on the consistency and quality of the product offering. For us, HAL certainly does not have the cachet of a premium cruise line. I sometimes wonder if this is why some people keep going back.....they perceive HAL as some sort of status symbol that says something about their status in life.

 

At the high end on offer are a number of older ships whose maintenance has been deferred. And more that one of these vessels is well past it's best before date.. We just do not see the value when compared to the alternatives. And notwithstanding all the glowing, emotional comments by cheerleaders, frankly the service is no longer what it should be, the entertainment is well, I am not really sure how to describe it other than not good. And that is before we get to the lottery about whether the A/C or plumblng will be working in your cabin should you select certain ships in the fleet.

 

We book standard verandahs. On our last three Med cruises and our upcoming South America cruise HAL did not make it on the short short list. Not even because of ship or preferences but because the pricing was simply uncompetitive compared to, in the case of the MED, Celebrity, and in the case of SA, Princesss. We are travelling 4-5 months a year. We are not about to start paying a premium of 30-40 percent to be loyal to any vendor.

[OlsSalt]

...... We are travelling 4-5 months a year. We are not about to start paying a premium of 30-40 percent to be loyal to any vendor.

 

 

I wouldn't either, if there was that much price differential for the same product. You did the right thing. Cruise companies owe us loyalty; not the other way around.

 

Be that as it may; so far HAL keeps earning our loyalty for the cruise values and goals we have. That may be entirely different for those with different goals and values obviously.

[kazu]

Yes, in fact, the cost goes down if you do not want to include the air, and you can also choose not to include their pre- or post-cruise hotel for another reduction in the fare.

 

Of course, their pricing isn't going to beat HAL's on every cruise for every category (I tend to book insides and V2A also generally has a low solo supplement). My intention in posting wasn't to start a discussion of how well any other line stacks up against HAL but merely to suggest that HAL is not always the only option out there for great itineraries at reasonable cost.

 

and your point was well made:D the only reason it turned into a discussion was a certain poster who likes to post.:D

 

thank you:D

[blueboro]

In our case, it was both: we have had delay flush toilets so we were beholder of reports about "non-working toilets" as well as victims of delay-flush toilets.

 

Back up a bit and realize all I have been asking is what exactly is a "non-working toilet". And also recognize the role of both timing and perception plays in answering that query. Indeed, how long an interval or frequency of this occurrence that takes a nuisance into becoming a primary dysfunction.

 

So in fact I agree with you, it depends.

 

How about one that doesn't flush when you hit the button?? You hit the button...it didn't flush = non-working toilet. If the brakes on your car don't work when you press but work 15 minutes later, "how long an interval or frequency of this occurrence that takes a nuisance into becoming a primary dysfunction."

[RuthC]

And the award for "Post of the Day" goes to:

How about one that doesn't flush when you hit the button?? You hit the button...it didn't flush = non-working toilet. If the brakes on your car don't work when you press but work 15 minutes later, "how long an interval or frequency of this occurrence that takes a nuisance into becoming a primary dysfunction."

[OlsSalt]

How about one that doesn't flush when you hit the button?? You hit the button...it didn't flush = non-working toilet. If the brakes on your car don't work when you press but work 15 minutes later, "how long an interval or frequency of this occurrence that takes a nuisance into becoming a primary dysfunction."

 

Actually, it is still called a "delayed flush" working toilet. :cool: Your analogy is not valid. No points.