Kids on Seadream

[Jim Avery]

I am afraid as a non smoker the new Seabourn policy will keep us away from that line but Windstar is looking worth a shot. If ZQ Vol could travel in the shoulder or off season I wouldn't consider anything but SD, our late May 2010 B2b Greece to Istanbul was magical.

 

We sailed Seabourn prior to the recent tightening of their smoking rules. As reformed smokers, we had no problems on the Spirit in any venue. And Lois is very picky about that stuff.:eek::D

[wripro]

Do we have to keep the taser setting on low?

[Jim Avery]

Do we have to keep the taser setting on low?

 

Only for under 6 years old. Teens get the full Monty.:eek::D

[frequent traveler]

We sailed Seabourn prior to the recent tightening of their smoking rules. As reformed smokers, we had no problems on the Spirit in any venue. And Lois is very picky about that stuff.:eek::D

 

Jim,

If you can decipher the rules (and they are as poorly written as the worst legalese) Seabourn has actually relaxed the smoking rules. Imagine paying for a verandah suite and not being able to use it because of a constant smoker next door. I've been following that thread and its gotten very nasty at times.

 

That's another reason why I LOVE SD when there are no hellions on board, strict enforcement of the smoking zones. When a couple next to me on a west bound TA in the other half of a Commodore started smoking in their cabin, they got a letter first, when it continued (I guess since it was a TA they figured they would not be dropped off in a lifeboat) the Capt advised them that they would be banned from SD if it continued, regardless of more than 200 nights on board the two had accumulated. While they grumbled and loudly complained to all at TOY, no more smoke coming through the divider. Now SD will enforce that rule because its a safety rule. I'm just waiting to see the reaction when one of the little darlings left unattended for "just a moment" by the parent almost goes overboard on Deck 2, as happened on the voyage we shared with J&L Avery. The yacht is certainly not childproof. I think that most of us who have been responsible for small children keep that characteristic for life. So it's hard to relax when you see a 3 yr old with water wings left alone in the pool because his parents wanted to use the jet ski and then learn to water ski.

 

FT

[ho-hum]

Which is scarier ?

 

SNAKES ON A PLANE

or

KIDS ON SEA DREAM !

 

Aaaarrrgggghhhhh !

[Jim Avery]

Which is scarier ?

 

SNAKES ON A PLANE

or

KIDS ON SEA DREAM !

 

Aaaarrrgggghhhhh !

 

Snakes don't poop in the pool and hot tub.:eek::eek::D

[ho-hum]

Ouch ! (but I get you buddy)

[ho-hum]

Snakes don't poop in the pool and hot tub.:eek::eek::D

 

Ouch ! (But I get you buddy)

[goRRRdon]

You know guys, the Owner will not change a policy on children to suit the overwhelming wishes of his clientele. He has principles (God help us).

The only way forward is to suggest a policy for his consideration. Here is a start.

 

1. Designate one ship as adult only.

2. Designate other ship's calendar into 3 parts:

- adult only

- limited children permitted (up to 7 children)

- family friendly (hell)

3. A contract should be issued for each parent explaining and requiring the following:

a. Sea Dream is a small vessel for discerning travellers who have come to expect a high standard of service. It is expected that any disturbance is kept to the minimum as determined by Sea Dream personnel.

b. eating will occur at set times (before main service) in designated areas

c. children in nappies are not permitted to use the pool or jacuzzi

4. Unable to accept future bookings if is is deemed the care of the children has not been satisfactory and if reasonable complaints are received from from passengers.

5. Ensure that hygiene is rigidly maintained (after using toilets).

6. Designate a Sea Dream nanny to cater for the children.

7. Convert the Owner's suite to a daytime crèche with sound- proofing (named "Uncle Bobs & Aunty Pams")

 

ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS ?

[JES4845]

Good suggestions or at least variations on them. As others know we are SD1 now in the Black Sea with lots of kids and kids issues. As one woman from Australia volunteered this morning, SD needs to decide what its product is and isn't and stick to it even if it means turning away those who kids. But therein lies the rub as they say. The kids issue is compounded by the fact that the kids are part of a larger group of adults that with kids is over 25 so one quarter of the passenger list. We all know money talks even if it is short term money that undermines future business. Apparently this group comes on annually or biannually depending on who you talk to. The major moneybags of the group also charters SD. Thus, beyond the kids issue, the group thinks they have a higher status than the rest of us. They don't mix and mingle. They have their own reception, they have dinner outside every night at the same big table at the back deck, and so others tell me, they claim to have reserved the library and TOY bar at different times such as pre-dinner and before 10 PM. Some of the kids use the main salon for games in the afternoon and descend on the pool in late afternoon. We came back from a walk and thought of using the pool but two under 6 kids were in the pool splashing around before the youngest started crying up a storm. Many on this trip are returning guests like us who now say they are unlikely to return so whatever money made from the group with the kids will be lost due to future bookings that won't happen now and word will spread as it is on this thread. The idea of adults only or kids only voyages is a good one. The Australian woman said exclusive Turtle Island does that with kids only allowed at three designated weeks of the year clearly marked on the calendar and those who book then are reminded so there are no surprises. I am already asking Miami about kids booked on our future voyages and will do now have to also ask about groups.

[knotheadusc]

Un-cruise Adventures, which also has some all inclusive luxury cruises, designates certain weeks that are specifically kid friendly. I haven't yet tried this line, but it's kind of on the bucket list and has been for awhile. I don't know if the rest of their cruises are really kid populated, but they offer a variety of cruises to appeal to different travelers. Might be worth looking into for those looking for an alternative.

 

I think it's such a shame when large groups of people on a small ship act like they're the only ones there. We've been pretty lucky on our cruises. There was a baby on the first one, but we seldom saw or heard him. The other two cruises were kid free. It really surprises me that SeaDream execs don't seem more concerned about couples who are loyal to their line. One of the reasons I didn't book another cruise when I was last onboard is that our experience on Hebridean Princess taught me that SeaDream isn't the only great luxury line out there. I want to experience other cruises... frankly, I really want to book another Hebridean cruise!

 

Our last SeaDream cruise was probably the best of the three, but I wasn't bowled over like I was the first two times. If I encountered a bunch of unruly rug rats on an expensive cruise in the Black Sea, I think it would turn me off SeaDream for good. And the whole booking the TOY Bar and Library so that others are excluded is really off putting.

Edited August 26, 2013 by knotheadusc

[frequent traveler]

Wow, even the most "entitled" we've sailed with have never claimed to have reserved TOY or the library, regardless of the number. I did have a friendly race with the hordes of Norwegian friends of former Captain Tysse every morning for my favorite chair by the pool on a crossing (I even sat out in the rain once with a blanket over my head to keep my chair).

 

Its a vicious circle as I said after our cruise last year - SD refuses to enforce its any behavior rules so it can fill a yacht and as a result it drives away the original target market, which in turn means it takes more and more unruly groups and children. Sorry you are having to endure this - hope you are managing to enjoy some of the trip. I know confining yourself to a cabin to avoid children is not fun - at least not in a cabin the size of SD. So I hope you are able to make use of other spots on the yacht.

 

one more thing - one yacht is always available for charter - my company has chartered twice in the Caribbean and I once had some spare time playing with the numbers - a charter is more expensive then filling every cabin at the website rates. There is a lot of different factors - including Commodore Suites v. cabins, etc. but it was hard to find a configuration where a full ship booked by individuals raised more in fares than a charter. So I don't think SD will ever not have one of the yachts available for Charter.

 

FT

Edited August 26, 2013 by frequent traveler

[Jim Avery]

Wow, even the most "entitled" we've sailed with have never claimed to have reserved TOY or the library, regardless of the number. I did have a friendly race with the hordes of Norwegian friends of former Captain Tysse every morning for my favorite chair by the pool on a crossing (I even sat out in the rain once with a blanket over my head to keep my chair).

 

Its a vicious circle as I said after our cruise last year - SD refuses to enforce its any behavior rules so it can fill a yacht and as a result it drives away the original target market, which in turn means it takes more and more unruly groups and children. Sorry you are having to endure this - hope you are managing to enjoy some of the trip. I know confining yourself to a cabin to avoid children is not fun - at least not in a cabin the size of SD. So I hope you are able to make use of other spots on the yacht.

 

one more thing - one yacht is always available for charter - my company has chartered twice in the Caribbean and I once had some spare time playing with the numbers - a charter is more expensive then filling every cabin at the website rates. There is a lot of different factors - including Commodore Suites v. cabins, etc. but it was hard to find a configuration where a full ship booked by individuals raised more in fares than a charter. So I don't think SD will ever not have one of the yachts available for Charter.

 

FT

 

You beat me to the post too FT.:D I was going to say the exact thing about a "death spiral" effect as this big shot is by far more important to SD than I am. I know the feeling of being "filler" on a SD voyage populated with a large group. We have had "incidents" waiting to board the tender when a few of the group were in line, then us, then a lot more of their group showed up and just assumed they could cut the line. I held my ground but got dirty looks and muffled comments for it the rest of the voyage. We would have sailed SD at least 4 more times over the last couple of years but for the worry of again being on such a voyage. I am afraid SD has painted themselves into a corner and will ultimately become something much different from what attracted us in the first place.

[Tall Lad]

I'm appalled to see that folks are having their vacations ruined in this way.

 

We have sailed on SD 4 times , the first time being 2004.

 

If any SD execs are reading this you can take it as read that you won't be getting any more custom off us until you impose a no children policy.

[commander courageous]

It is absolutely ridiculous to assume Sea Dream will impose a "no children"

policy. After all, they are in the business of making a profit and can ill

afford to turn away customers in a very competitive market.

 

Having said that, I do believe they owe it to other guests to be up front

when there are children aboard so others can decide for themselves

whether or not they wish to cruise with the "youngins".

 

We have made 20 trips with SD, and have three more booked in the future.

While we have never experienced situations as written in this thread, we

might feel different if we did.

 

I do know that the companies management watches this space,

so I assume by now they are getting the sense of displeasure felt by many.

[commodoredave]

IF SD management is reading this thread, there is a simple and elegant solution to the issue: Simply designate some cruises as permitting children, and designate others as adult only. Then we could all make choices that would make us happy and fill SD ships.

[abenaki]

As a more direct way of registering our feelings to SeaDream management about this issue, is it not better for everyone to send an email directly to both Miami and Oslo?

[goRRRdon]

You know guys, the Owner will not change a policy on children to suit the overwhelming wishes of his clientele. He has principles (God help us).

The only way forward is to suggest a policy for his consideration. Here is a start.

 

1. Designate one ship as adult only.

2. Designate other ship's calendar into 3 parts:

- adult only

- limited children permitted (up to 7 children)

- family friendly (hell)

3. A contract should be issued for each parent explaining and requiring the following:

a. Sea Dream is a small vessel for discerning travellers who have come to expect a high standard of service. It is expected that any disturbance is kept to the minimum as determined by Sea Dream personnel.

b. eating will occur at set times (before main service) in designated areas

c. children in nappies are not permitted to use the pool or jacuzzi

4. Unable to accept future bookings if is is deemed the care of the children has not been satisfactory and if reasonable complaints are received from from passengers.

5. Ensure that hygiene is rigidly maintained (after using toilets).

6. Designate a Sea Dream nanny to cater for the children.

7. Convert the Owner's suite to a daytime crèche with sound- proofing (named "Uncle Bobs & Aunty Pams")

 

ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS ?

 

Commodoredave; this proposal has previously been made (see quote)

Abenaki: what do we say to M&O ? We have to propose something. Why not the quote above ?

Commander courageous: do you agree with proposal ? With respect you have been very lucky, another three without checking beforehand about bookings is gambling (as Jim Avery says: a 10,000 dollar gamble)

[Jim Avery]

I would be very happy to pick my cruises from the Adults Only list. We don't particularly sail SeaDream for the itinerary (Costa Rica is the exception) as SD does not go to nasty places. I doubt you will ever see "Working Ports of the Industrial World" on their itinerary.:eek: I would be willing to bet that the Adults Only cruises sell out quickly and the Kiddie Cruises sail with some empty cabins.:eek::D

[commodoredave]

Commodoredave; this proposal has previously been made (see quote)

 

Yes, I know -- I first suggested it on aug 23. I was only repeating it for the benefit of SD management.

[goRRRdon]

Apologies commodoredave but doesnt it seem exasperating to keep on at Sea Dream ?

 

What makes it worse, is that if management do follow these forums (how do you know that ?) and then do nothing; then it proves they dont care so why should we have faith in their product anymore ?

 

Jim Avery said he has "banging on" about this problem since 2005/8.

 

Please Sea Dream clarify voyages in the three types proposed then:

- (I agree with Jim Avery) there would be increased bookings (and hence revenue)

- clientele would be happier (fewer complaints and back to more rave reviews)

- crew would be happier (and you would keep them; they didn't sign up to be nannies. Sea Dream cant hold down a regular Club & Activities Director for some time now; whats going on ? Is it the children problem ? Being over-stretched ? I wouldn't last a day).

 

What could be simpler. Come on Sea Dream: give us a policy.

 

If one is not offered then we must conclude that Sea Dream is a faulty product and can no longer guarantee to offer the premium product they espouse.

[frequent traveler]

Apologies commodoredave but doesnt it seem exasperating to keep on at Sea Dream ?

 

What makes it worse, is that if management do follow these forums (how do you know that ?)

 

Because different individual members of managment have told more than one of us so . . the former President, Larry Pimentel originally hated CC and gave little credit to it, but has learned to live with it on Azamara. After all we only represent a few individuals in the total market. More than half the newbies I meet on SD have never heard of CC, though we always meet a few couples who are trying SD for the first time because of the reviews and/or this Board.

 

FT

[knotheadusc]

Yeah, I have been recognized on two SeaDream cruises by other passengers and staff members who follow this board. Pierre even told me I was a "good ambassador" for SeaDream, which I thought was really funny! :p Not that I haven't done my share of cheerleading, but there have been other posters on this board that influenced me to make my first booking... Jim Avery was one.

[Jim Avery]

Yeah, I have been recognized on two SeaDream cruises by other passengers and staff members who follow this board. Pierre even told me I was a "good ambassador" for SeaDream, which I thought was really funny! :p Not that I haven't done my share of cheerleading, but there have been other posters on this board that influenced me to make my first booking... Jim Avery was one.

 

Why thank you Knot.:D And what did I get for that? Ganttc on my next trip.:eek: At least there were no kids on that one. Yes, we have all been cheerleaders for SeaDream. The reason we are here making this point is that we care about the future of SeaDream and hope to sail again if they will return to the product that made them famous.

[knotheadusc]

I totally agree. Like you, I don't like making $10,000 gambles. I really hope SeaDream pays attention to this issue. This isn't the only place I have heard talk of a "death spiral" of the brand and I would hate to see SeaDream as I've come to love it turn into a different product.