Kids on Seadream

[Jim Avery]

I know Pam Conover from her days at Seabourn and she is a talented executive but her above response was the biggest, most evasive non answer I have seen since Ellen Bettridge's reply to the Silver Shadow CDC debacle.

 

Agreed. Wish we had someone with nerve in management to tackle this issue.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Jim Avery

[Jim Avery]

Wow, what a great thread. Jes,Jim, CD I think you are all spot on. Send emails to SD asap. I am sure they watch these threads? It's Yachting, not cruising - cruising is for kids.

 

Unfortunately, I have been pounding this issue since 2005 to no avail. Mr. B wants it his way, the rest be d****ed.

[Jim Avery]

They might/might not monitor the boards, but it doesn't hurt to express your opinions directly to Pam. This is a very competitive business, and they wouldn't know what might cause passengers to decline one by one unless it was specifically pointed out to them ... and these boards are a way for prospective clients to get opinions.

 

I encourage that all customers who feel that kids under a certain age should be not allowed to send an email. Granted "adults" can sometimes cause problems also, but not to the extent that kids can. I just don't think that they belong on SeaDream. There are lots of other cruise lines that can accommodate them.

 

Yes, they do monitor these boards. I have had various SD execs (except Mr. B) approach me. One even called me "SeaDream's biggest fan". His words, not mine but I have written many good things about SD here as well. Our adults only voyages have been as good as it gets. The rest less so.

[Jim Avery]

Case in point on SD1 tonight. After our first dinner outside this voyage - a great night with a full moon and calm seas - we came down back steps to pool area to walk back to our room via concierge area. Most if not all of the many kids this week are part of a big group of 17 or more. Several kids were in the darkened main salon jumping up and down on the furniture while the adults are upstairs out back. Granted it didn't take us but a minute to walk by even as other kids came bounding down the hallway. The point though is that having kids like that on board takes away from the atmosphere that SD sells as yachting not cruising which in turn justifies the premium prices. We saw a crew member removing the closed sign from the jacuzzi as we were making our way toward the door. Water on the deck suggested kids had recently been in the pool or jacuzzi. Maybe we are being too sensitive or too picky but at these prices I think we are all justified. It just detracts from the experience in ways big and small. It is also a risk many including us may not decide to take when it comes to future voyages since while some kids will be better or worse than others one doesn't know for sure as to a given voyage until it is too late.

 

Exactly right! That's why we refer to SeaDream as "the $10K roll of the dice".:eek:

[wripro]

jes4845,

 

You are not being too sensitive. Kids jumping up and down on the furniture and running down hallways do not belong on SD. And your following sentence exemplifies the problem: "While the adults are upstairs out back."

[goRRRdon]

Concerning "frequent traveller's" enquiry which Travel Agent is best to appoint to deal with Miami. I would say any TA. In fact the more TAs raising the issue, the better.

 

If TAs dont get a response from Miami then we ARE ALL IN THE POOP !!

 

You sure they have the correct email address ?

 

gone biking, screw the passengers @ bunker somewhere in Miami.con

 

Miami:

- may not be competent to resolve the issue

- are primarily concerned with revenue (from anyhoooo)

- dump the problem on the crew

- dismiss how they promote the product

- show no concern to their main client base relying on the passengers relationship to the crew and ship as a basis for repeating custom

- ultimately they do not have the final authority: only the owner does

 

As was eloquently pointed out by "frequent traveller" Miami doesnt give a damn, otherwise this long-standing issue would have been sorted a long time ago.

[Winner]

Has anyone contacted the CDC about diapered (or even not) children in the pool? There are safety and sanitary laws in place that, if found to be ignored by Seadream, will be the basis for fines and/or discipline.

 

Maybe a threat of reporting would even awaken Miami. Good Luck!

Edited August 22, 2013 by Winner

[BeignetBoy]

It just detracts from the experience in ways big and small. It is also a risk many including us may not decide to take when it comes to future voyages since while some kids will be better or worse than others one doesn't know for sure as to a given voyage until it is too late.

 

Agree -- 100%

[knotheadusc]

SeaDream cruises are pretty expensive for us and we have to save and plan to be able to afford them. I would be pretty upset if a bunch of kids ruined my experience. I know some kids are well-traveled and know how to behave around adults, but for most kids, SeaDream is a very poor fit. It's not fair to the kids and it's not fair to the adults who have to work hard, scrimp, save, and plan for these trips.

 

Reading about this makes me think our next cruise will be on Hebridean, if after my husband's Army retirement, we manage to plan another trip! Kids under age 9 are not allowed on their cruises. Frankly, as a 40 year old woman, I was a bit of a whippersnapper on that cruise line! ;)

[JES4845]

What other cruise lines have kid restrictions that folks can share with the rest of us to consider? After posting from SD1 the other night when kids were in the salon jumping on furniture we retired to our room. Three or four times in the span of 10-15 minutes after 1030 PM several kids were again running up and down the hall on deck 3. I finally called concierge desk to complain and it stopped. Yesterday you guessed it per earlier emails a kid pooped in the jacuzzi which is a first for us but others have said it has happened before. They have to drain it sanitize it and fill it then empty it twice. My wife asked if the parents had apologized and the crew shook his head to say no they hadn't. I've decided even when they are well behaved they don't belong on SD given the nature of the ship and what this type of voyage should be about. Besides if a kid thinks SD is a normal vacation they will have twisted values and not have anything to look forward to as an adult. I feel the same way when I see lots of kids in first or business class on a flight.

[ho-hum]

Well at least we all know what the poop deck is now ?

[frequent traveler]

What other cruise lines have kid restrictions that folks can share with the rest of us to consider? After posting from SD1 the other night when kids were in the salon jumping on furniture we retired to our room. Three or four times in the span of 10-15 minutes after 1030 PM several kids were again running up and down the hall on deck 3. I finally called concierge desk to complain and it stopped. Yesterday you guessed it per earlier emails a kid pooped in the jacuzzi which is a first for us but others have said it has happened before. They have to drain it sanitize it and fill it then empty it twice. My wife asked if the parents had apologized and the crew shook his head to say no they hadn't. I've decided even when they are well behaved they don't belong on SD given the nature of the ship and what this type of voyage should be about. Besides if a kid thinks SD is a normal vacation they will have twisted values and not have anything to look forward to as an adult. I feel the same way when I see lots of kids in first or business class on a flight.

 

so sorry it happened to you - we stayed out of the hot tub and pool most of the 2nd week of our B2B last summer on SD I Venice -Dubrovnik - Athens for the same reason. Several times the hot tub was unavailable and drained, then refilled and the engineers checked repeatedly. And that's why we won't go back during summer months and other school holidays. Doesn't reduce the risk of toddlers during non-school holidays but with fewer on board, lessens the likelihood of such an incident. We've shifted to bigger ships with adults only facilities during the holidays much as I hate anything but SD because our 2nd wk last summer was ruined. At least on the bigger ships I can get a cabin with a balcony to escape to, adults only pools, and have 24 hr room service with a real menu and even with a bar bill, cost much less than SD. And I agree with on kids in business class - had 2 crying babies on my last flight from ATL to Santiago in business class - if the parents had had to buy tickets for them, I bet they wouldn't have been there. Of course it was better than the return trip where unfortunately, a man died during the night.

 

Good luck with the rest of the trip.

 

FT

[wripro]

I agree that the CDC needs to be alerted to these incidents. It is disgusting to even consider. Send your kids to camp, not Sea Dream.

[frequent traveler]

While I don't like these incidents in the pool/hot tub, I believe SD is handling in accordance with health & safety rules - you have to drain, clean, refill, drain and refill. That's why most places, including ships that accomodate toddlers and infants have "kiddie pools" that are easy to clean and bar toddlers and infants from the other pools. Since SD management won't bar from pool - and how can a low level crew member be expected to do so when management won't, other passengers are subjected to problems caused.

[goRRRdon]

So you can no longer trust that your (expensive) voyage will be the exclusive experience they fraudulently promote (you mean the advertising is'nt truthful ? oh do grow up !) and then what can you do about it ?

Apart from my strong recommendation to complain to your TRAVEL AGENT you can consider:

1. Going elsewhere (several companies appear to be offering bespoke voyages) but the Sea Dream crew are unique and irreplaceable (it would never be the same though would it ?).

2. Avoid school holidays.

3. Expose yourself less to the risk by doing fewer voyages.

4. Request that your travel agent, makes enquiries before booking just how many children will be travelling as well as large groups both presently and prior to your voyage. Requesting Miami to contact the agent should the situation change.

5. Finally carry a taser or cattle prod at all times onboard (be sure to keep settings on low)

 

As has been mentioned before, by directing your complaints and concerns via a travel agent to Miami, you will be doing the crew a favour too.

Do you think this is what these young men signed up for ?

They didnt know they were also expected to be nannies too !

[commodoredave]

Children don't belong on SeaDream, but if Miami is not going to restrict them, management should at the very least designate certain cruises as "kids welcome" and "kids prohibited." We could then make informed choices about when we choose to sail with SD without the fear of wasting our money and being disappointed. If management fails to do this, I'm afraid they are going to drive away their best and most loyal customers. Even newcomers like me are beginning to regret my decision to give them a try.

[frequent traveler]

So you can no longer trust that your (expensive) voyage will be the exclusive experience they fraudulently promote (you mean the advertising is'nt truthful ? oh do grow up !) and then what can you do about it ?

Apart from my strong recommendation to complain to your TRAVEL AGENT you can consider:

1. Going elsewhere (several companies appear to be offering bespoke voyages) but the Sea Dream crew are unique and irreplaceable (it would never be the same though would it ?).

2. Avoid school holidays.

3. Expose yourself less to the risk by doing fewer voyages.

4. Request that your travel agent, makes enquiries before booking just how many children will be travelling as well as large groups both presently and prior to your voyage. Requesting Miami to contact the agent should the situation change.

5. Finally carry a taser or cattle prod at all times onboard (be sure to keep settings on low)

 

As has been mentioned before, by directing your complaints and concerns via a travel agent to Miami, you will be doing the crew a favour too.

Do you think this is what these young men signed up for ?

They didnt know they were also expected to be nannies too !

 

Avoiding school holidays was going to be our primary line of defense but I like #5 in your list. I guess I would definitely have to check luggage since TSA should not let through security ;) a word of warning after your final payment is made SD may run a discounted fare that attracts families with small children. That was our case last year. Not only were they paying $1,000 less per week per person but they got to torture full freight passengers. I have bought cancel for any reason travel insurance in the past when I thought job demands could interfere. This will become mandatory with SD in the future so it really becomes a price point decision whether SD or something else for a holiday.

[Jim Avery]

Children don't belong on SeaDream, but if Miami is not going to restrict them, management should at the very least designate certain cruises as "kids welcome" and "kids prohibited." We could then make informed choices about when we choose to sail with SD without the fear of wasting our money and being disappointed. If management fails to do this, I'm afraid they are going to drive away their best and most loyal customers. Even newcomers like me are beginning to regret my decision to give them a try.

 

That would seem to be the easiest way to handle the issue. I know we would book Adults Only over itinerary. Especially in the Caribbean, we don't care if that is Antigua or Anguilla over the port rail.:D Just let me be on board with adults only and enjoy the SeaDream experience.:D

[Crabbyguy]

Jim, you are spot on, it's Yachting, not Cruising......no kids. Owner needs to get over it. Revenue is short sided.

[goRRRdon]

It is really not the children (I count children as less than 10 for girls or between 12-13 for boys: girls are always far more mature than boys until they discover "fashion" !).

 

It 's the irresponsible parents who either show no signs of controlling disruptive children and or who expect the crew to care for them. I have seen it enough times. I purposefully refrain from giving examples (such as urinating on the floor whilst dining, having nappies changed on dining tables prior to meals, ineffective parents who consider a child screaming their heads off is simply expressing themselves: no giving these kind of examples is below me and simply being alarmist).

However whenever the crew's children have travelled they have actually been a delight because their parents act responsibly (God forbid if they didnt tho' !).

I hear that the Norwegian party on the recent boyage in question were well behaved, as is usually the case with Norwegians; it was another party, that caused most of the incidents, the arrogant father admitted that Sea Dream was just not suitable for children. Well why did'nt Miami tell him this ?

 

Miami persistently and consciously avoids this issue to the level of outright deception because:

1. Their main concern simply seems to be raising quick revenue with no concern for their brand (if they even know what that is)

2. They dont give a "hang" anymore who they appeal to as potential passengers

3. They dump the issue on the crew to sort out who are intimidated not to complain.

[JES4845]

Thanks for the concern and suggestions. We have already informed Miami that we are reconsidering our three voyages already booked in light of the kids situation. It could be worse off course and some might say except for the incidents noted earlier not all that bad. However, as someone on a recent reply here noted, we all pay a premium price and expect a premium product. The crew delivers its wonderful service morning, noon and night and we would miss it and them terribly if we went elsewhere. Our view is that even if not misbehaving per see, just having kids around the pool being kids as is happening on SD1 anchored off Sochi as I type detracts from the premium adult or couples product we are paying for. Thus, if we cancel one, more or all future SD voyages I suspect we would go back to non-cruising vacations although we wouldn't rule out trying another line on as small a ship as possible,

[lincslady]

JES - think about Seabourn except in July and August in the Med., and around Christmas and New Year in the Caribbean. When there are children on board, there is at least more space for everyone than on Seadream - and I have never seen large groups of kids. The 'owner' situation is also quite different! (And therefore better)

[commodoredave]

Has anyone tried Sea Cloud? Also, someone mentioned Windstar once they get the three small ships from Seabourn. I've been on 4 Windstar cruises and don't remember ever seeing a single child on them.

[frequent traveler]

I am afraid as a non smoker the new Seabourn policy will keep us away from that line but Windstar is looking worth a shot. If ZQ Vol could travel in the shoulder or off season I wouldn't consider anything but SD, our late May 2010 B2b Greece to Istanbul was magical.

[Jim Avery]

I am afraid as a non smoker the new Seabourn policy will keep us away from that line but Windstar is looking worth a shot. If ZQ Vol could travel in the shoulder or off season I wouldn't consider anything but SD, our late May 2010 B2b Greece to Istanbul was magical.

 

With the exception of the Kiddie Trip from H*ll at Spring Break/Easter, all our problems with kids/owners group have been in the "off season". It really is random and just the luck of the draw. Never thought we would have problems with kids in Late October in the Med but we did.:eek: