Canceling gratuity

[wander]

I have a question. Why would the automatic tip on drinks discourage good service? I would think that if I was guaranteed more money for every drink I sold I would hustle all the more, and expect my staff associates to do the same. More drinks more money. Same with wine, I would keep pouring as quickly as the glass was down hoping that another bottle would be purchased. What am I missing? I see the automatic 15% for drinks being much more of an incentive to great service than for the other stewards who get the tips regardless.

[Randyk47]

I have a question. Why would the automatic tip on drinks discourage good service? I would think that if I was guaranteed more money for every drink I sold I would hustle all the more, and expect my staff associates to do the same. More drinks more money. Same with wine, I would keep pouring as quickly as the glass was down hoping that another bottle would be purchased. What am I missing? I see the automatic 15% for drinks being much more of an incentive to great service than for the other stewards who get the tips regardless.

 

Your logic is great and I'd probably agree with you if I hadn't experienced the drop off in service myself. In practice it doesn't seem to work that well. Personally I don't think the 15% makes up for when I, among probably others, was tipping $20-$40 to sometimes as many as three different servers and a bartender or two depending on the length of the cruise and the service.

[RuthC]

I have a question. Why would the automatic tip on drinks discourage good service? I would think that if I was guaranteed more money for every drink I sold I would hustle all the more, and expect my staff associates to do the same.

Because it's pooled. Your theory would work if everyone hustled all the time. But just look around at any job---some people are busting their humps all day to push the work out, while others never break a sweat.

It's the same on the ships. When the stewards knew they were earning tips that they would keep in full, they were grabbing "ownership" of various patrons, and don't any other steward dare to try to wait on them. They interloper would be cut off at the pass.

Sometimes one or a few stewards would work as a team and cover for each other, then pool their tips informally with their own team. The slackers were left out.

 

Now, the slackers get the same amount as everyone else, so it's a race to the lowest common denominator.

[doublebzz]

 

Now, the slackers get the same amount as everyone else, so it's a race to the lowest common denominator.

 

Sounds like government work.

[Typhoon1]

Crew members earn every penny they.

 

They are some of the hardest working individuals I have ever met. They get very little recognition for their diligence.

[ScriptOhio]

Just sayin': I remember when HAL stated on their advertisements "no tipping necessary". Times have really changed, back in 2003 or 2004 this was on Holland America's website under "cruise basics":

 

"Exceptional service is part of the Holland America cruise experience. Because you are our guest, it is our goal to make sure you receive the finest service possible. Our "tipping not required" policy ensures that the professional and gracious service you receive on board is truly sincere; that we are dedicated to providing the most relaxed cruise vacation, not simply providing service in return for tips. You are free, however, to extend monetary recognition if you wish-it's entirely up to you. (Company policy prohibits us from suggesting how much.)

 

:p

[RuthC]

Sounds like government work.

I knew it sounded familiar when I typed it. ;)

[Wakepatrol]

Just sayin': I remember when HAL stated on their advertisements "no tipping necessary". Times have really changed, back in 2003 or 2004 this was on Holland America's website under "cruise basics":

 

"Exceptional service is part of the Holland America cruise experience. Because you are our guest, it is our goal to make sure you receive the finest service possible. Our "tipping not required" policy ensures that the professional and gracious service you receive on board is truly sincere; that we are dedicated to providing the most relaxed cruise vacation, not simply providing service in return for tips. You are free, however, to extend monetary recognition if you wish-it's entirely up to you. (Company policy prohibits us from suggesting how much.)

 

:p

 

Yes I remember when the guy manning the door wouldn't let schleppers into the dining room wearing track suits. What about it?

[Watson's aunt]

hi

 

I was on one of those ships then. we tipped. But HAl could not get any staff because they all jumped to ships that had tipping on them.

 

 

Mary

[cruz chic]

Sounds like government work.

 

Don't kid yourself. I work for an oil and gas company and management knows I work my butt off. I had a colleague that wasn't interested in working so she made a baby book for her daughter. Now she left on mat leave 2 months early. Guess who is getting her work. I have another one that did nothing for month but work on her acctg designation at work for several months. Management just piles the work on morons like me that will do it.

[Randyk47]

Just sayin': I remember when HAL stated on their advertisements "no tipping necessary". Times have really changed, back in 2003 or 2004 this was on Holland America's website under "cruise basics":

 

"Exceptional service is part of the Holland America cruise experience. Because you are our guest, it is our goal to make sure you receive the finest service possible. Our "tipping not required" policy ensures that the professional and gracious service you receive on board is truly sincere; that we are dedicated to providing the most relaxed cruise vacation, not simply providing service in return for tips. You are free, however, to extend monetary recognition if you wish-it's entirely up to you. (Company policy prohibits us from suggesting how much.)

 

:p

 

Our initial TA back in 1995 made a big deal of HAL's "tipping not required" policy. She went as far as to say "They pay good wages and that's all covered by your cruise fare." Even showed us in the HAL brochure where is said that. She clearly took it to mean tips are not expected and told us so. It was only our second cruise and our first on HAL so we took her at her word. So we go on a 10-day Caribbean cruise and early the last night we see folks tipping wait staff all over the place. We scrambled and made it happen.....gently told our TA her information was not quite accurate. :)

[soldham]

Because it's pooled. Your theory would work if everyone hustled all the time. But just look around at any job---some people are busting their humps all day to push the work out, while others never break a sweat.

 

It's the same on the ships. When the stewards knew they were earning tips that they would keep in full, they were grabbing "ownership" of various patrons, and don't any other steward dare to try to wait on them. They interloper would be cut off at the pass.

Sometimes one or a few stewards would work as a team and cover for each other, then pool their tips informally with their own team. The slackers were left out.

 

Now, the slackers get the same amount as everyone else, so it's a race to the lowest common denominator.

 

Ruth: I think you have it bang on and that has been exactly my experience.

[sail7seas]

Originally Posted by RuthC

Because it's pooled. Your theory would work if everyone hustled all the time. But just look around at any job---some people are busting their humps all day to push the work out, while others never break a sweat.

 

It's the same on the ships. When the stewards knew they were earning tips that they would keep in full, they were grabbing "ownership" of various patrons, and don't any other steward dare to try to wait on them. They interloper would be cut off at the pass.

Sometimes one or a few stewards would work as a team and cover for each other, then pool their tips informally with their own team. The slackers were left out.

 

Now, the slackers get the same amount as everyone else, so it's a race to the lowest common denominator.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ruth: I think you have it bang on and that has been exactly my experience.

 

 

That theory may be true to a point but it does not take into consideration all of the 'over and above' tipping many of us do. If we wait for drinks in Ocean Bar, we won't be tipping extra. If we get prompt, courteous, professional service...... perhaps with a pleasant word or not each evening, we tip extra and they know there is a money pool out there to be harvested from a percentage of guests.

 

We are/were the same guests who always tipped when HAL's policy was 'tipping not required'. We never took that to mean No Tipping Permitted or Expected.

 

Automatic Hotel Service Charge does not mean you cannot tip 'extra'.

 

 

[sail7seas]

Originally Posted by RuthC

Because it's pooled. Your theory would work if everyone hustled all the time. But just look around at any job---some people are busting their humps all day to push the work out, while others never break a sweat.

 

It's the same on the ships. When the stewards knew they were earning tips that they would keep in full, they were grabbing "ownership" of various patrons, and don't any other steward dare to try to wait on them. They interloper would be cut off at the pass.

Sometimes one or a few stewards would work as a team and cover for each other, then pool their tips informally with their own team. The slackers were left out.

 

Now, the slackers get the same amount as everyone else, so it's a race to the lowest common denominator.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ruth: I think you have it bang on and that has been exactly my experience.

 

 

That theory may be true to a point but it does not take into consideration all of the 'over and above' tipping many of us do. If we wait for drinks in Ocean Bar, we won't be tipping extra. If we get prompt, courteous, professional service...... perhaps with a pleasant word or two each evening, we tip extra and they know there is a money pool out there to be harvested from a percentage of guests.

 

We are/were the same guests who always tipped when HAL's policy was 'tipping not required'. We never took that to mean No Tipping Permitted or Expected.

 

Automatic Hotel Service Charge does not mean you cannot tip 'extra'.

[jtl513]

Really ? No days off at all ?

They may get a few hours in a port, but I don't think any get full days unless they're sick! :(

[RuthC]

That theory may be true to a point but it does not take into consideration all of the 'over and above' tipping many of us do. If we wait for drinks in Ocean Bar, we won't be tipping extra.

I always tipped what I thought was a generous amount, and still do tip extra when the service deserves it.

However, there was a time when there were stewards from the old system saw me returning, knew that I tipped well, and maintained the old level. They knew what to expect at the end of the cruise, and it made a difference.

Sadly, there are fewer and fewer of the old timers around anymore. :(

 

There was the year of transition from the old tipping rules to the new. I tipped the same amount as always, in addition to the service charge.

The next year, there was one steward who remembered me from the year before. He was all over me to do anything and everything he could. Two other stewards, who had not been all that industrious, noticed how the first steward was treating me, and they all ended up racing each other to get to me first.

Kind of funny; kind of sad.

 

I think it's the not knowing who is worth hustling for, and who isn't, makes a difference in the level of service.

You, Sail, are a regular on HAL ships, and have said many times you know many of the crew when you board. They know that you tip extra, and go after those extra tips.

[indokiwi]

Because it's pooled. Your theory would work if everyone hustled all the time. But just look around at any job---some people are busting their humps all day to push the work out, while others never break a sweat.

 

It's the same on the ships. When the stewards knew they were earning tips that they would keep in full, they were grabbing "ownership" of various patrons, and don't any other steward dare to try to wait on them. They interloper would be cut off at the pass.

Sometimes one or a few stewards would work as a team and cover for each other, then pool their tips informally with their own team. The slackers were left out.

 

Now, the slackers get the same amount as everyone else, so it's a race to the lowest common denominator.

 

Beverage stewards/servers aren't included in the Hotel Service Charge. They make their "tips" with the 15% gratuity that they collect all cruise on your drink orders. Check it out your next cruise with the Front Office and they will confirm. Unless you are referring to room stewards? Anyway, beverage "slackers" definitely don't make the same as everyone else. The only people that pool their tips in Beverage are the Bartenders, but not anything that they receive in addition - only their portion of the 15% is pooled and split amongst all of them.

[jtl513]

The only people that pool their tips in Beverage are the Bartenders, but not anything that they receive in addition - only their portion of the 15% is pooled and split amongst all of them.

I once asked an MDR wine stewardess on the Zuiderdam who gets the 15% on pre-ordered (on-line) wine and liquor and who gets it for wine purchased in the MDR. Her answer was that all the 15% charges go into a pool (separate from the HSC), so even someone working in the Explorations Cafe coffee bar gets a little each time a cocktail or glass of wine is sold in the MDR. Like room stewards (or anyone else) they are free to keep any cash given in addition to the 15% BSC. Maybe it's done differently on different ships, but I doubt it.

 

I believe the servers do get some "points" that earn them some kind of rewards for their sales volume, so they will suggest a bottle when you order a glass of wine, or a 3-bottle package if you order one. Also the amount that each server draws from the service charge pool is undoubtedly not equal for everyone - those with more seniority will draw more than those on a first contract.

.

[RuthC]

Beverage stewards/servers aren't included in the Hotel Service Charge.

I know that.

They make their "tips" with the 15% gratuity that they collect all cruise on your drink orders.

I know that, too.

Check it out your next cruise with the Front Office and they will confirm.

No need.

Unless you are referring to room stewards?

I thought it was pretty clear that I was referring to lounge stewards.

Anyway, beverage "slackers" definitely don't make the same as everyone else. The only people that pool their tips in Beverage are the Bartenders, but not anything that they receive in addition - only their portion of the 15% is pooled and split amongst all of them.

I'm speaking of the 15% service charge on beverages. It goes into a separate pool that is shared. Only the additional tips are kept by the recipient.

Sometimes, several lounge stewards have an informal sharing arrangement with those extra tips.

[jtl513]

The 15% BSC on pre-purchased beverage cards go into the same pool.

[chrispb]

I have a question. Why would the automatic tip on drinks discourage good service? I would think that if I was guaranteed more money for every drink I sold I would hustle all the more, and expect my staff associates to do the same. More drinks more money. Same with wine, I would keep pouring as quickly as the glass was down hoping that another bottle would be purchased. What am I missing? I see the automatic 15% for drinks being much more of an incentive to great service than for the other stewards who get the tips regardless.

 

My thoughts exactly. After all, HAL can see precisely who is selling and who is skiving, so why aren't they on their backs?

[catl331]

My thoughts exactly. After all, HAL can see precisely who is selling and who is skiving, so why aren't they on their backs?

If one person works hard, they will be adding a little to what they get from the pool, but they are also adding to the amount that slackers will be getting. I'm sure if someone is selling much below average HAL will "bring it to their attention".

[dr.dawg]

wait just a minute here. the hch is 'optional.' it can be removed. it is not a part of the cruise fare. removing it simply means the staff performed as they should have. leaving it on your account IS the 'tip.' for better than expected service. average, expected service to me means no hch; remove. above that to me means leave hch, exceptional service means to me keep hch and add a little extra at the end of the cruise. just 'average' means, again, revoval of hch. i don't 'tip' just because someone is cute, sweet, makes a towel animal or shows you pictures of their family; they have to perform as the cruise line promises. if i want to contribute to charity, i have other sources. i am not the source of these folks' income; the cruise line is. if there is truly wonderful service, i leave on the hch. if it is really exceptional, i always tip extra. and i understand the 'rules.' for 'average' service, i feel no qualms whatsover about removing the hch.

[sail7seas]

My thoughts exactly. After all, HAL can see precisely who is selling and who is skiving, so why aren't they on their backs?

 

 

Like most working people, they have job evaluations. One has to think if they do not perform well or up to company expectation, they are not offered a new contract when there current one runs out.

 

[Swelldame]

Personally, I resent HAL for continuing to make the whole issue unclear. HSCs are getting to be standard in land-based hotels, and they're non-negotiable. Are they used in part to "tip" housekeeping staff which seems to have waned in popularity? Whatever.

 

HAL should add the per diem HSC to the fare and be honest about it. But that would make the cruise seem more expensive, so they won't. They'll leave us to waste time debating and doing the math and getting nickle-and-dimed to death.

 

Just another of the many HAL annoyances that are really getting to me lately, and why I've jumped ship to Silversea and Regent.