Eastern Med with 84 year old Dad--how much is too much

[Mom2008]

Make sure the Pope is not away for his summer holidays!

 

I'm trying to figure that out, it might be too soon to know, haven't figured out where to find his 2014 itinerary, but I see he didn't have any audiences last year in July or August...We could instead visit the museums and libraries in Vatican City.

[Emmasoma]

Besides trains check into Ryanair. Sometimes flights from city to city are half what a train costs. It just depends on the day of the week and how much luggage you have to check. Airfare will be a bit less in spring than in summer, too for your big flight. I think I would find the cruise first and then build around it so you know what days you will have pre and post.

[Mom2008]

Thank you all again for such wonderful feedback.

 

Looking at average temperatures, I think March might be too cold. May might be hard as my son needs to study (he's in grade 11 and final marks are used for university admission), but September or October might work better.

 

Checked out air bnb dot com and very few apartments near the centre of Paris for a good price in July/August, but end of September there was a great apartment in the Bastille for $132 per night for 7 people (plus $64 fee). Rome and Venice look good too.

 

I think it would work better to fly to Paris and do that part at the beginning so the cruise, which is more relaxing, can be at the end.

 

Seat 61 dot com is great. I've checked it out before but will do a bit more detailed research to crunch the numbers. I LOVE the idea of train travel, as it allows us to see the scenery between points, but I can see that for my Dad, it might be too tiring. I'll have to think about that. Maybe flying between points would be best. Or maybe I could fly with my Dad and the rest of the family could take the train. I'll have to look at air travel within Europe; my Dad can walk, and is getting better all the time, his second knee surgery had a slow recovery. The transport wheelchair is just to get him through some long or tiring stretches.

 

Is there a definitive website that lists all cruises, I'm a bit overwhelmed trying to figure out how to compare them, which ones give discounts to third and fourth travellers. We love HAL, but are open to other options, and their Eastern European cruises are longer than NCL's 7-day one which stops in all the ports we'd like to see.

 

I am having as much fun planning as I would travelling (well, almost ;). First step will be to decide on a cruise, book it and then go from there, but patience and full details help me make an informed decision. I know you get deeper discounts if you book closer to the date, but then it might be harder to plan around it. Still lots of research...

 

Theresa

[cruise_bunnies]

It sounds like you want to do everything while you are in Europe. I can understand that, but that way, you will most likely drive yourself crazy, exhaust yourself and get everybody crouchy.

 

Write down all you want to do/want to see.

 

Cut out 20% on your land trip. This is for travel arrangements that don't work out. Train delays, not finding the correct bus, possible flight delays. Trouble at your hotel that you need to solve. Feeling a bit more tired then you thought you would when you arrived etc.

 

Cut down another 15% on your land trip. This is for just sitting for an hour or two at a cafe in Rome, relaxing with a croissant in Paris etc. The things we don't schedule, but do cost time. I have had city trips in which we just had lunch on the go, but considering your dad, a place to rest up would be a huge plus for everybody involved.

 

Considering your cruise:

 

If you have the budget, it's tempting to book your port days full. However, you can't see everything in a day and most likely you shouldn't even try. Pick one or two spots that you are really interested in and let the rest be alternative plans. For your excursions, choose a mix of relaxing activities (sitting in the bus seeing the sights, cable car, HoHo Bus) and active activities (Museums, walking around the old city center).

 

Make sure you have alternative plans in case of bad weather and alternative plans if your dad is tired (for example, add in a sit down for a drink or snack, add in a boat tour on the Seine, relax your schedule etc. etc.) Some contingencies are easy (Eiffel Tower is near the Seine for a boat tour), Notre Dame is in walking distance (5-10 mins) to the Latin Quarter where the eating is good (and cheap) etc. Others you might want to think about in advance.

 

My dad always claimed he could do anything and would never complain. He went on a 21 day land excursion in China. After the bus trips and sightseeing done by the TA, he'd be asleep in the hotel room. My mom wanted to go out to town. Luckily for him, they also did a mix of more relaxing activities. Else I doubt my mom would have seen anything in the evening ever ;)

 

For cruise comparisons, I think the first thing to check is how important activities on board are, how important your cruise line is and how important your ports are. That will make it easier to narrow down your choices!

 

Have fun!

Edited November 26, 2013 by cruise_bunnies

[middlehaitch]

Hi Theresa,

As everyone has said look for an off shoulder cruise. We did the Eastern Med early October and the weather was perfect - around 25c.

 

As well I know, living just accross the water from you, the airfair is a killer, so before you book your cruise make sure you know the prices for the window you want to travel, an extra $150pp for the cruise could save a fortune in airfare.

I did check multiple cruise lines and it does look as though you are well priced with the NCL Norewgian Jade. It is even less in October. To do a comparison yourself just google cruise then go to the site that says just that. Sorry we can't recommend sites on Cruise Critic.

Have you thought of doing 3-4 in a cabin? I know not a lot of privacy or seeing if a family room for some of you works out a good price as 3 & 4 in a room can sometimes work out well. Except for sleeping you can rotate through the room for changing.

For the land portion also check out B & B's or the small family run hotels they can sometimes be a good deal off peak.

Your dad seems well aware of his abilities and will be a lot more mobile by the time you travel so, as long as he doesn't have to haul luggage, he may well be up to the train trip. Which I am sure he would enjoy as it is a lot more relaxing than flying. Don't forget there are also coaches that are well equipt for long journeys- they do take longer than the train.

I am glad you enjoy the planning too. Have fun.

Cheers, h.

[Suzieanna]

I think this all sounds so wonderful - and is doable with lots of planning!

 

The best advice I can give, is to be very honest with each other about mobility limitations. I have been on a few Europe cruises, I am mid forties, fit and well but I got tired, day after day of walking round for miles takes its toll. The last cruise I was with my mum and dad, and they were knackered!!! (mid sixties)

 

There are so many things that able bodied and physically well people do not have to think about, such as running to dodge terrible traffic, crowds crushing you (and trying to mug you) while you try to get on and off a train, - public toilets are virtually impossible to find. I mention this because it was a real issue for my mum!

 

If you want to see the Pope, you write and apply (or have the priest do it for you) Then you get a letter back from them to say there is tickets for you and you have to collect them on the Tuesday night or very early Wednesday morning. LONG LONG QUEUES . Now, if you want a seat, you need to be at St Peters very very early! Also, some times in the year they do the audience in the Paul VI (think its there?) so a seat is even more of a premium! Some people in wheelchairs were at the front when I was there last year so make sure Dad brings his chair!

 

I think if this was my family I would go in April, fly to Rome a day or two early, stay in a central place for Vatican... get Dad to see P Francis, and then another day resting before going to Venice.... Venice has lots of bridges but the streets were in a better condition than Rome!

 

Rest as much as you can on the cruise. Croatia is indeed beautiful. Maybe a ships tour would in order?

 

Cant help on Paris. I dont like it there!

[Sherlock43031]

I'm confused.. are all 7 Dad and your family? Sounds like a very nice gesture from Dad. Don't make it a forced march for him by adding all the extra stuff. Fly into Rome.. see the Pope and then do a cruise. adding the trains/flying paris etc will wear him out. $2500 per isn't going to cover the flight and a cruise ticket. Save Paris for another time. the Pope will more then likely be out of town in the dead of summer. if that's the case maybe consider doing an Alaska cruise. for an 80yo+ with bad knees to sit on a plane for 12/14 hours is a chore in itself. spend extra money to upgrade your airline seats.. it will be the best money you spend.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Sherlock43031

[Gloria Mundi]

I wanted to mention one thing DH and I did in Dubrovnik that was spectacular- don't know if it would fit with the cruise line's port schedule or not. When I was printing out or confirmation for Zagreb-Dubrovnik on Croatia Air, I saw a banner ad for a kayak tour around the Dubrovnik city walls. DH, bless him, was up for it even with his creaky back. At the time he needed a strong person on either side to raise/lower him in and out of the kayak but he sat up front and I did most of the paddling. (The stronger paddler should be in the back.)

 

It was one of the best things we ever did in one of the best cities we ever visited. It sounds like you have enough strong people in your group that Dad can enjoy the scenery and take pictures. (I kept an inexpensive, compact camera in a watertight plastic sandwich container lashed to the side of the kayak and took it out to take pictures.)

[Elaine5715]

I just want to address the physicality of the long flight across the pond. Traveling with my 84 year old dad who is in good health finds the long flights the worse. Besides talking with your doctor ahead of time about the very real threat of deep vein thrombosis, you might want to consider for him an airline seat that allows to fully recline and move around. That would be a better choice to spend the extra $$.

[navybankerteacher]

I think this all sounds so wonderful - and is doable with lots of planning!

 

The best advice I can give, is to be very honest with each other about mobility limitations. I have been on a few Europe cruises, I am mid forties, fit and well but I got tired, day after day of walking round for miles takes its toll. The last cruise I was with my mum and dad, and they were knackered!!! (mid sixties)

 

There are so many things that able bodied and physically well people do not have to think about, such as running to dodge terrible traffic, crowds crushing you (and trying to mug you) while you try to get on and off a train, - public toilets are virtually impossible to find. I mention this because it was a real issue for my mum!

 

If you want to see the Pope, you write and apply (or have the priest do it for you) Then you get a letter back from them to say there is tickets for you and you have to collect them on the Tuesday night or very early Wednesday morning. LONG LONG QUEUES . Now, if you want a seat, you need to be at St Peters very very early! Also, some times in the year they do the audience in the Paul VI (think its there?) so a seat is even more of a premium! Some people in wheelchairs were at the front when I was there last year so make sure Dad brings his chair!

 

I think if this was my family I would go in April, fly to Rome a day or two early, stay in a central place for Vatican... get Dad to see P Francis, and then another day resting before going to Venice.... Venice has lots of bridges but the streets were in a better condition than Rome!

 

Rest as much as you can on the cruise. Croatia is indeed beautiful. Maybe a ships tour would in order?

 

Cant help on Paris. I dont like it there!

 

This is great advice --- there is no way you should even think about arriving in Rome on a Wednesday morning and getting the tickets for the audience that

morning. If the tickets need to be picked up on Tuesday, you might even have difficulty getting them with a Tuesday morning arrival.

 

If the Papal audience is key, you should build the rest around that -- and think carefully about the effort levels demanded of you father in all contemplated activities. Better to have a simpler, but successful, trip than a forced march which could leave everyone exhausted and frustrated.

[Gloria Mundi]

I just want to address the physicality of the long flight across the pond. Traveling with my 84 year old dad who is in good health finds the long flights the worse. Besides talking with your doctor ahead of time about the very real threat of deep vein thrombosis, you might want to consider for him an airline seat that allows to fully recline and move around. That would be a better choice to spend the extra $$.

 

DH and I have given up on Coach transatlantics. It just takes him too long to recover afterwards. We fly transatlantics a whole heck of a lot less now. Does anyone in the family have enough FF miles to get Dad up front? It makes a huge difference and it would be a great "thank you" for him. Even if you need to pool miles, most airlines will let you transfer miles to others' accounts- for a fee, of course, but cheaper than buying a Business Class seat.

[Mom2008]

DH and I have given up on Coach transatlantics. It just takes him too long to recover afterwards. We fly transatlantics a whole heck of a lot less now. Does anyone in the family have enough FF miles to get Dad up front? It makes a huge difference and it would be a great "thank you" for him. Even if you need to pool miles, most airlines will let you transfer miles to others' accounts- for a fee, of course, but cheaper than buying a Business Class seat.

 

Good suggestion. I'll look into that. He does have a lot of Air Miles, but we'd want to all get on the same flight. He's flying to Vancouver from Winnipeg so we can all fly together.

[Mom2008]

This is great advice --- there is no way you should even think about arriving in Rome on a Wednesday morning and getting the tickets for the audience that

morning. If the tickets need to be picked up on Tuesday, you might even have difficulty getting them with a Tuesday morning arrival.

 

If the Papal audience is key, you should build the rest around that -- and think carefully about the effort levels demanded of you father in all contemplated activities. Better to have a simpler, but successful, trip than a forced march which could leave everyone exhausted and frustrated.

 

You are very right. I had offered Rome and the papal audience as a treat for my Dad, as he's a Knight of Columbus and has been a fervent supporter of the Pope since I was a child. He studied for the priesthood, but that didn't work out.

 

For Rome, we'd arrive at least Monday or Tuesday so we could be relaxed. My Dad's already talked to the Archbishop, who can get us tickets ahead of time. My fear is that the Pope won't be there in the summer. We're still researching that.

 

Strangely, we can't find the original cruise we were looking at any more on NCL, but there is another one that starts in Venice and ends in Rome that would work, but then we'd have to stick around until Weds.

 

Lots of logistics to figure out. I hear what everyone is saying about trying to take in too much. My plans sound good on paper, but in reality we could all end up exhausted and beyond grumpy with each other.

 

Biggest decision right now is time of year, as two weeks off during during the Fall during my son's final year of high school could be a challenge.

 

Of course, everyone says they'd be just as happy going somewhere warm like Hawaii or the Carribean, which would be a bit of a letdown for me (I'd have to find some other way of getting the family to Europe), but much easier to plan and oh so much more relaxing. Someplace warm for two weeks in March would go down well, the winter rain in Vancouver can be relentless, and my Dad would love a break from the cold Winnipeg winter.

 

Lots of talking to do with my Dad now. Thank you everyone.

 

Theresa

[Mom2008]

I wanted to mention one thing DH and I did in Dubrovnik that was spectacular- don't know if it would fit with the cruise line's port schedule or not. When I was printing out or confirmation for Zagreb-Dubrovnik on Croatia Air, I saw a banner ad for a kayak tour around the Dubrovnik city walls. DH, bless him, was up for it even with his creaky back. At the time he needed a strong person on either side to raise/lower him in and out of the kayak but he sat up front and I did most of the paddling. (The stronger paddler should be in the back.)

 

It was one of the best things we ever did in one of the best cities we ever visited. It sounds like you have enough strong people in your group that Dad can enjoy the scenery and take pictures. (I kept an inexpensive, compact camera in a watertight plastic sandwich container lashed to the side of the kayak and took it out to take pictures.)

 

That sounds wonderful. We LOVE kayaking and canoeing. We live near False Creek in Vancouver where we've rented kayaks to tour the ocean. It's a great way to see a city. (Maybe I should write a review about things to do in Vancouver for cruisers who visit the city on their way to/from Alaska.)

 

Theresa

[Mom2008]

I'm confused.. are all 7 Dad and your family? Sounds like a very nice gesture from Dad. Don't make it a forced march for him by adding all the extra stuff. Fly into Rome.. see the Pope and then do a cruise. adding the trains/flying paris etc will wear him out. $2500 per isn't going to cover the flight and a cruise ticket. Save Paris for another time. the Pope will more then likely be out of town in the dead of summer. if that's the case maybe consider doing an Alaska cruise. for an 80yo+ with bad knees to sit on a plane for 12/14 hours is a chore in itself. spend extra money to upgrade your airline seats.. it will be the best money you spend.

 

Yes, Dad, myself, my husband, our three kids, and our oldest daughter's boyfriend. I have five other siblings and he's offering the same deal to each of them. Originally he was going to plan a big cruise with everyone, but the logistics were just too big.

 

I am seriously looking at paring down the itinerary. Lots of soul-searching to do right now. Our original plan was to fly Monday, arrive in Rome late Monday/early Tuesday, rest, Pope Weds morning, stay in Rome Weds night, then train to Venice Thurs for a Sat evening cruise. That might be enough.

 

Theresa

[DRS/NC]

Have you thought about how tired everyone (especially your Dad) will be after the LONG flight(s) from western Canada to Europe? And the jet lag? You'll be crossing about 10 time zones! Your first 2-3 days in Europe to be very draggy!

 

DVT is a very real concern for your dad, esp. after knee replacement. Be sure to check w/his surgeon & other doctors before the planning goes too far. (I had both knees replaced years ago & still must be careful on long flights.)

 

Remember, everything will take longer than you plan & cost more. "Less" is usually better.

 

Good luck!

[cruiseryyc]

Of course, everyone says they'd be just as happy going somewhere warm like Hawaii or the Carribean,

 

I think under the circumstances with your Dad's knees - this would be the absolute best idea for a family trip. Lots of time to just relax with each other and make wonderful memories. Europe will always be there. A couple of years ago, my 83 year old Mom with bad knees and using a walker, decided she wanted to take the family to Maui. At first we balked at the idea (too much money for her to spend, etc.) but in the end we all went and had a marvellous time relaxing in the sun - two months later she died quite unexpectedly, so you never know what is going to unfold.

 

As I said earlier - Europe will always be there for you to take your kids to; make this trip a relaxing one full of fun memories, not struggling with planes, trains and cobblestones.

Edited November 26, 2013 by cruiseryyc

[ducklite]

Besides trains check into Ryanair. Sometimes flights from city to city are half what a train costs. It just depends on the day of the week and how much luggage you have to check. Airfare will be a bit less in spring than in summer, too for your big flight. I think I would find the cruise first and then build around it so you know what days you will have pre and post.

 

Keep in mind that any savings with the discounted Euro airlines can easily be eaten up by luggage fees--and fees for pretty much everything including breathing it seems.

[ducklite]

Besides trains check into Ryanair. Sometimes flights from city to city are half what a train costs. It just depends on the day of the week and how much luggage you have to check. Airfare will be a bit less in spring than in summer, too for your big flight. I think I would find the cruise first and then build around it so you know what days you will have pre and post.

 

Keep in mind that any savings with the discounted Euro airlines can easily be eaten up by luggage fees--and fees for pretty much everything including breathing it seems.

[ducklite]

I just want to address the physicality of the long flight across the pond. Traveling with my 84 year old dad who is in good health finds the long flights the worse. Besides talking with your doctor ahead of time about the very real threat of deep vein thrombosis, you might want to consider for him an airline seat that allows to fully recline and move around. That would be a better choice to spend the extra $$.

 

Agree--even if the rest of you sit in economy, it would be well worth it for him to have a 180 degree lay flat seat so he can actually get a full nights sleep without worrying about DVT.

[ducklite]

Yes, Dad, myself, my husband, our three kids, and our oldest daughter's boyfriend. I have five other siblings and he's offering the same deal to each of them. Originally he was going to plan a big cruise with everyone, but the logistics were just too big.

 

I am seriously looking at paring down the itinerary. Lots of soul-searching to do right now. Our original plan was to fly Monday, arrive in Rome late Monday/early Tuesday, rest, Pope Weds morning, stay in Rome Weds night, then train to Venice Thurs for a Sat evening cruise. That might be enough.

 

Theresa

 

My husband and I (active and healthy 50-somethings who are very experienced travelers) spent three weeks in Europe in 2012. Two on a cruise plus a few days in Rome and Athens pre and post cruise. We were absolutely exhausted by the time we got home. We paced ourselves for the most part, and took a lot of naps before dinner, and we were still exhausted. I can't imagine trying to do Rome or Venice or Paris if I was at all physically challenged unless I had a couple of weeks in each to be able to really take my time exploring.

 

I think that your idea of shortening the cruise is a wise one. I also am not sure that I'd take your children--perhaps you and your husband would just accompany your father. I think a multi-generational trip like this could end up being frustrating for all.

 

I also question why your father would travel "backwards"to YVR first--adding time onto his trip. Instead maybe you should all meet at YYZ or JFK and fly from there to break up the trip. Maybe you could fly to YWG to accompany him. (I love YWG by the way, great little airport!)

[Alaskanb]

My husband and I (active and healthy 50-somethings who are very experienced travelers) spent three weeks in Europe in 2012. Two on a cruise plus a few days in Rome and Athens pre and post cruise. We were absolutely exhausted by the time we got home. We paced ourselves for the most part, and took a lot of naps before dinner, and we were still exhausted. I can't imagine trying to do Rome or Venice or Paris if I was at all physically challenged unless I had a couple of weeks in each to be able to really take my time exploring.

 

I think that your idea of shortening the cruise is a wise one. I also am not sure that I'd take your children--perhaps you and your husband would just accompany your father. I think a multi-generational trip like this could end up being frustrating for all.

 

I also question why your father would travel "backwards"to YVR first--adding time onto his trip. Instead maybe you should all meet at YYZ or JFK and fly from there to break up the trip. Maybe you could fly to YWG to accompany him. (I love YWG by the way, great little airport!)

 

Ducklite has great suggestions!

I wonder if it is time for you to sit back and ask how demanding the trip would be on all of you. I am in my mid 60's, fairly fit, with one knee replacement and the other in December --I know that I would be exhausted after the trip you are thinking about.

My suggestion would be to fly into your embarkation port a few days early to recover from jet lag, take the cruise where Dad can rest/participate at will, then plan the papal visit afterwards. Perhaps there are tours for those who are not-so mobile. Paris could wait until you have the time to really explore the city and more of the country itself. Sometimes less is best :)

Came across this about Rome http://www.slowtrav.com/italy/accessible/rome/vatican.htm

Edited November 26, 2013 by Alaskanb

[Gloria Mundi]

It may be heresy to say so on this Board, but if your heart is set on Europe a land tour with just a couple of destinations (and maybe day trips from those destinations) may be better. The problem with cruises is that once you're off the ship at a port, you don't get back on till the scheduled time. If your Dad is worn out at 2 PM but you can't get on the tender back to the ship till 5, you've got to find a good place for him to relax for 3 hours, which isn't always possible (unless you park in a restaurant and order food or drink). If you've got a hotel nearby, your Dad can settle into the room at 3 PM and snooze, read a book, watch the local TV station, and meet you for dinner. Or you can go to a local grocery store, pick up some sandwiches and a couple of bottles of wine, and bring dinner to Dad. You can do some research and make a list of fun things you want to do, weather permitting, and change plans as you go along. On the "boat" theme again, I stumbled upon the Parc Real in Madrid during a late-afternoon run and DH and I came back the next day and rented a rowboat and went out on the lake. (If he hadn't taken over the oars I'd still be trying to get the thing away from the dock.)

 

The trains in Europe are wonderful and even a 2- or 3-hour one-way trip to a place you visit for the day is a relaxing way to see the countryside.

 

A land trip could provide you with the flexibility you need.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Gloria Mundi

[ducklite]

It may be heresy to say so on this Board, but if your heart is set on Europe a land tour with just a couple of destinations (and maybe day trips from those destinations) may be better. The problem with cruises is that once you're off the ship at a port, you don't get back on till the scheduled time. If your Dad is worn out at 2 PM but you can't get on the tender back to the ship till 5, you've got to find a good place for him to relax for 3 hours, which isn't always possible (unless you park in a restaurant and order food or drink). If you've got a hotel nearby, your Dad can settle into the room at 3 PM and snooze, read a book, watch the local TV station, and meet you for dinner. Or you can go to a local grocery store, pick up some sandwiches and a couple of bottles of wine, and bring dinner to Dad. You can do some research and make a list of fun things you want to do, weather permitting, and change plans as you go along. On the "boat" theme again, I stumbled upon the Parc Real in Madrid during a late-afternoon run and DH and I came back the next day and rented a rowboat and went out on the lake. (If he hadn't taken over the oars I'd still be trying to get the thing away from the dock.)

 

The trains in Europe are wonderful and even a 2- or 3-hour one-way trip to a place you visit for the day is a relaxing way to see the countryside.

 

A land trip could provide you with the flexibility you need.

 

I'm not sure I understand the point about not being able to re-board. Of course if you are on a ship sponsored tour, you need to stay with it--however you can usually return to the motor coach if you need to. But on our two cruises the tenders ran non-stop during the day.

 

Even in Pompeii, one of our fellow cruises was getting terribly tired and overheated, so the tour guide left her sitting in a shady spot to wait for the rest of us to come back around in about 45 minutes.

 

Many European ports can be done DIY--Which means a lot of walking (many aren't going to be really worth visiting without the walking (or wheelchair) part and there is no shortage of cafes with shaded tables and inexpensive drinks to enjoy. We sat for an hour or more sipping our wine on some days, and never felt rushed to leave.

[celle]

[quote name='Gloria Mundi;40797240(Snip)

The problem with cruises is that once you're off the ship at a port' date=' you don't get back on till the scheduled time. If your Dad is worn out at 2 PM but you can't get on the tender back to the ship till 5, you've got to find a good place for him to relax for 3 hours,[/b'] . . (Snip)

 

I think you are misinformed.

 

In all the cruises I have done, the tenders keep running all day long. People have gone ashore for the morning and back to the ship for lunch, sometimes going ashore again in the afternoon. There's no reason why the OP's father could not go ashore just for the morning, and still have an afternoon rest on board the ship.

 

There's no way that any ship could re-board all its passengers only at 5pm and still leave on time.

 

Perhaps you confused the "All Aboard" time with the time you are allowed to get back on the ship?

Edited November 26, 2013 by celle