Delete auto grautuity and pay cash?

[sapper1]

The HSC is also given voluntarily, which is why I stated earlier that the OP is free to remove the item from his bill if he so chooses. Another poster noted that HAL staff are quite used to having lots of passengers remove these items from their final bill. There isn't any obligation for anyone to pay these fees.

 

There may be no legal obligation to pay the fees but there most certainly is a moral obligation.

[jtl513]

So I'd ask why does HAL then have the policy for all service staff that receive out-of-hand tips from passengers removing the HSC require that the monies be turned in? Out-of-hand tips are clearly tips, ...

Are they? Again, the only legitimate reason to remove the HSC is inadequate service, so why would you then be giving gifts for good service? Clearly you feel that you owe the steward something for his work, so it is not "beyond obligation".

 

If HAL did not have the policy requiring such cash to be turned in, many stewards could encourage passengers to pay them directly, to the detriment of the rest of the crew.

 

In a restaurant you may choose to leave a tip or not, but you may not choose to remove charges for services rendered. Same situation on HAL.

 

The HSC is also given voluntarily,

Oh? Do you go down to the front desk at the beginning of the cruise and tell them you want to give $11.50 per person per day to the crew? I don't. Edited February 14, 2014 by jtl513

[Randyk47]

Are they? Again, the only legitimate reason to remove the HSC is inadequate service, so why would you then be giving gifts for good service? Clearly you feel that you owe the steward something for his work, so it is not "beyond obligation".

 

If HAL did not have the policy requiring such cash to be turned in, many stewards could encourage passengers to pay them directly, to the detriment of the rest of the crew.

 

In a restaurant you may choose to leave a tip or not, but you may not choose to remove charges for services provided. Same situation on HAL.

 

Maybe you couldn't sort it out but say for example I had great cabin service but lousy MDR service I'm more than able to decide who to tip and who not to. That's pretty easy and straight forward.

 

I'm lost about your last point. The HAL HSC can be removed if you feel the service was not adequate so the comparison to a non-removable restaurant charge doesn't make sense. ??????

[cbr663]

Maybe you couldn't sort it out but say for example I had great cabin service but lousy MDR service I'm more than able to decide who to tip and who not to. That's pretty easy and straight forward.

 

I'm lost about your last point. The HAL HSC can be removed if you feel the service was not adequate so the comparison to a non-removable restaurant charge doesn't make sense. ??????

 

I agree. I also find that the last 2 statements don't make sense. I also believe that it is unfair that a portion of my HSC goes to MDR staff when I don't step foot inside the MDR.

[donaldsc]

I agree. I also find that the last 2 statements don't make sense. I also believe that it is unfair that a portion of my HSC goes to MDR staff when I don't step foot inside the MDR.

 

I assume that you do eat somewhere or do you brown bag it for 1 week or more? Using the term "MDR staff" is not quite accurate as you will often see the people who serve you in other dining venues. The "whatever you decide to call it" money (I am not going to get involved in the gratuity or charge discussion) goes to all the servers wherever they are on the ship.

 

Since the OP plans to leave the charge on his bill, I suggest that this thread be terminated.

 

DON

[jtl513]

Maybe you couldn't sort it out but say for example I had great cabin service but lousy MDR service I'm more than able to decide who to tip and who not to. That's pretty easy and straight forward.

But then you're punishing hundreds who had nothing to do with your lousy MDR service, most of whom you never saw face-to-face.

 

I'm lost about your last point.

I was just trying to make a distinction between gifts and charges. If HAL said absolutely no removal of the HSC (to make it unquestionable to everyone that it is a charge, not a tip) what would you have them do in a case where the passenger should not have to pay for services he did not get?

 

I wish that HAL did not state openly that it could be removed, but quietly allowed that when circumstances warranted. Make the passenger show why the service "... fails to meet your expectations, ..." not simply say that they want to do it. I'd bet that 98% of the time the HSC is removed it is just because the passenger wants to pay less, not because they were unhappy with the service. We've even heard people state on this board that they asked to have it removed as punishment for things like missing a port or being in a cabin with malfunctioning HVAC or plumbing ... things totally unrelated to crew service.

Edited February 14, 2014 by jtl513

[hal lover]

Really, I've never seen anything like that. Which board is it on because I've never seen that on HAL?

 

Yeah really!!!!

[hal lover]

$11.50 a day per passenger. Where else could you tip for 3 meal's a day, hotel service and wonderful crew so cheaply? NO WHERE! Just keep the auto tip in place. IMHO. I myself, like to tip up and beyond. But that's just me. If a crew member has made my vacation a little more nicer, if you will.. then I tip them for it.

[cbr663]

I assume that you do eat somewhere or do you brown bag it for 1 week or more? Using the term "MDR staff" is not quite accurate as you will often see the people who serve you in other dining venues. The "whatever you decide to call it" money (I am not going to get involved in the gratuity or charge discussion) goes to all the servers wherever they are on the ship.

 

Since the OP plans to leave the charge on his bill, I suggest that this thread be terminated.

 

DON

 

I used the term MDR staff as I have read repeatedly on this forum that a large portion of the HSC is given to MDR staff. HAL's lack of transparency regarding how the HSC is distributed is bothersome for me, and it has resulted in many passengers guessing.

[jtl513]

I also believe that it is unfair that a portion of my HSC goes to MDR staff when I don't step foot inside the MDR.

OTOH why should they forfeit part of their pay just because you choose not to go there? We all contribute to whatever money the PG and Tamarind staffs get from the HSC pool whether we go there or not. We all contribute to whatever money lounge waiters and bartenders get whether we ever go there or not. There are lots of services that are not used by some passengers, but the there is no practical way for the ship to apportion the HSC precisely.

 

HAL's lack of transparency regarding how the HSC is distributed is bothersome for me, and it has resulted in many passengers guessing.

CD's used to throw out numbers like 35% to cabin stewards, 35% to MDR staff, and the remainder to the rest of the crew. These are approximations at best, because like any organization any one person's pay (which is being funded by the HSC) varies with their title and length of service. Why is it important to you how much each person gets? When you patronize any business do you worry about how much each employee is paid? Edited February 14, 2014 by jtl513

[thinfool]

We were on the Ryndam and went to the Front Desk to reduce the amount.

We are from the UK and perceived the charge as tips, we understand now that is not the case. We would therefore not do that again.

There again we will probably not cruise with HAL again.

The Front Desk just asked us to fill in a form and never questioned our reasons.

 

As an fyi, all US based cruise lines use the auto-tip arrangement in one form or another. This is true even for ships sailing from the UK or Med.

 

So you may want to research this before you decide which cruise line to use next.

 

(Carnival and Princess have a couple of ships that are based in Australia and do not impose the autotip. However, the per person cruise fares have been adjusted (up) to assure compensation to those who would receive autotips if they were sailing from the US)

[YubaSutter]

Really, I've never seen anything like that. Which board is it on because I've never seen that on HAL?

 

All three questions appeared on the Carnival board about two years ago.

[cruz chic]

All three questions appeared on the Carnival board about two years ago.

Why am I not surprised. I knew there was no way that could be on the HAL boards.

[cbr663]

OTOH why should they forfeit part of their pay just because you choose not to go there? We all contribute to whatever money the PG and Tamarind staffs get from the HSC pool whether we go there or not. We all contribute to whatever money lounge waiters and bartenders get whether we ever go there or not. There are lots of services that are not used by some passengers, but the there is no practical way for the ship to apportion the HSC precisely.

 

I do not view it as the MDR forfeiting part of their pay, but rather, as they didn't earn it. No work, no pay. Your argument is akin to the MDR staff expecting their HSC from unsold cabins, as why should they give up part of their pay just because passengers decided not to sail?

 

CD's used to throw out numbers like 35% to cabin stewards, 35% to MDR staff, and the remainder to the rest of the crew. These are approximations at best, because like any organization any one person's pay (which is being funded by the HSC) varies with their title and length of service. Why is it important to you how much each person gets? When you patronize any business do you worry about how much each employee is paid?

 

I don't connect more transparency regarding the HSC distribution as the same as knowing an individual crew member's pay rate. You have just quoted different numbers than others have stated on this board. Confusion reigns supreme.

[catl331]

I also believe that it is unfair that a portion of my HSC goes to MDR staff when I don't step foot inside the MDR.

MDR staff do not work solely there. We have often seen them working the Lido for breakfast or lunch, and delivering room service. They may have served you there without you even knowing that they were MDR staff.

[jtl513]

You have just quoted different numbers than others have stated on this board. Confusion reigns supreme.

Different CDs have given numbers at different times. I said they are approximations at best. There are no precise numbers that are true for all cruises. Would it make a difference to you if it was, say, 30.1% on one cruise and 36.4% on another? It varies with the crew mix. If a lot of highly experienced crew get off at the end of a long cruise and are replaced with others with less time with the company the percentages change. Edited February 14, 2014 by jtl513

[kazu]

I do not view it as the MDR forfeiting part of their pay, but rather, as they didn't earn it. No work, no pay. Your argument is akin to the MDR staff expecting their HSC from unsold cabins, as why should they give up part of their pay just because passengers decided not to sail?

 

 

 

I don't connect more transparency regarding the HSC distribution as the same as knowing an individual crew member's pay rate. You have just quoted different numbers than others have stated on this board. Confusion reigns supreme.

 

Curious - if you don't eat in the MDR - then you are eating in the Lido or your room - or the specialty restaurants.

 

so those people don't deserve to be tipped?????? that's where part of the hsc goes and they do keep track of where you are so more goes wherever you tend to eat. (not that hard to do).

 

Along with those, we have those that swipe down the walls, the railings, greeted you as you cleared each day in port, cleaned your laundry (if you sent it) clean the deck at 5:00 am before you are up, set up the deck chairs, the list goes on....and on......and on.......;)

[Linda&Vern]

The HSC is also given voluntarily, which is why I stated earlier that the OP is free to remove the item from his bill if he so chooses. Another poster noted that HAL staff are quite used to having lots of passengers remove these items from their final bill. There isn't any obligation for anyone to pay these fees.

From your comments, I assume that when you go to a restaurant you do not tip the wait staff?

[kazu]

The HSC is also given voluntarily, which is why I stated earlier that the OP is free to remove the item from his bill if he so chooses. Another poster noted that HAL staff are quite used to having lots of passengers remove these items from their final bill. There isn't any obligation for anyone to pay these fees.

 

The hsc is part of the terms and conditions of your sailing. It is NOT voluntary IMO. removing it is voluntary of course - I'd love to be fly on the wall when I hear the 'reasons'.

 

Stating there is no obligation to pay these fees is what affects the crews mood for the rest of us. do you think your cabin crew are going to be happy to greet you when they were stiffed on the last cruise by people with similar attitudes.

 

Let's be clear - the hsc is a GIVEN unless you go and validate why it is not deserved.

 

When I cruise, I expect to pay this and don't begrudge it one second. We also tip extra to those who make our cruise special (our choice, not required).

 

Each to their own ;)

[cbr663]

Curious - if you don't eat in the MDR - then you are eating in the Lido or your room - or the specialty restaurants.

 

so those people don't deserve to be tipped?????? that's where part of the hsc goes and they do keep track of where you are so more goes wherever you tend to eat. (not that hard to do).

 

Along with those, we have those that swipe down the walls, the railings, greeted you as you cleared each day in port, cleaned your laundry (if you sent it) clean the deck at 5:00 am before you are up, set up the deck chairs, the list goes on....and on......and on.......;)

 

I have never stated that other crew on the ship do not deserve to be tipped. Nor have I stated that I would remove any portion of the tip because I do not eat in the MDR. If you read my posts, you will read that I have never reduced or removed the HSC.

 

My point is that I have repeatedly read, and it was stated in this thread also, that a large portion of the HSC goes to MDR Staff, and it seems unfair to me that these specific staff should receive a portion for not serving me. Please keep in mind that if I do not visit the MDR, I would have no way of knowing that the same staff were serving me elsewhere. Also keep in mind that when I read that a large portion of the HSC is for MDR Staff, I take it to mean for the service that is received in the MDR, for which I do not partake.

 

As I stated earlier, the lack of transparency regarding this issue leads to general confusion.

[Cruiser Andi]

I know a lot of people here mention that the quality of HAL has lessened over the years. I wonder if it goes hand in hand with the HSC. If people are removing this charge left and right it means that the people who work extraordinarily hard are not being justly compensated. Just food for thought.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[cbr663]

From your comments, I assume that when you go to a restaurant you do not tip the wait staff?

 

And you would be assuming incorrectly. At no point in this thread have I ever stated that I do not tip, in fact, I have stated the complete opposite that I have never reduced or removed the HSC.

[kazu]

I have never stated that other crew on the ship do not deserve to be tipped. Nor have I stated that I would remove any portion of the tip because I do not eat in the MDR. If you read my posts, you will read that I have never reduced or removed the HSC.

 

My point is that I have repeatedly read, and it was stated in this thread also, that a large portion of the HSC goes to MDR Staff, and it seems unfair to me that these specific staff should receive a portion for not serving me. Please keep in mind that if I do not visit the MDR, I would have no way of knowing that the same staff were serving me elsewhere. Also keep in mind that when I read that a large portion of the HSC is for MDR Staff, I take it to mean for the service that is received in the MDR, for which I do not partake.

 

As I stated earlier, the lack of transparency regarding this issue leads to general confusion.

 

I am sorry if my post caused you concern, but your wording leads one to think that you are doubting the hsc and questioning it so.....

 

Why not just trust the system? have you never noticed when you do open dining they ask your room number? they know it in fixed.

 

If you are not in fixed and not in open, they know where you are.

 

Lido also has asked at times but I think they have this now down to a fine art.

 

don't assume everything that the majority goes to the MDR - they have a way of working this out - at least so I understand.

 

there are a lot more people behind running the ship than the MDR - one meal a day - there is the all the wait staff, the stewards, the laundry, the cleaners, the deck hands, etc.

[cbr663]

I know a lot of people here mention that the quality of HAL has lessened over the years. I wonder if it goes hand in hand with the HSC. If people are removing this charge left and right it means that the people who work extraordinarily hard are not being justly compensated. Just food for thought.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

 

Yet one could also argue that the reason that the passengers are removing the HSC is because they received poor service. Goodness knows that there have been numerous reports of poor service having been received. I have noticed though that some passengers do not reduce or remove the HSC in response to having received poor service, choosing instead to jump to other cruise lines. This is certainly a much less desirable outcome for HAL.

[Randyk47]

I know a lot of people here mention that the quality of HAL has lessened over the years. I wonder if it goes hand in hand with the HSC. If people are removing this charge left and right it means that the people who work extraordinarily hard are not being justly compensated. Just food for thought.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

 

Speaking for myself only I feel that the level of service went down with the change over to the HSC. Now, in all fairness, HAL was concurrently making changes in staff levels like higher cabin per steward ratios and fewer staff in the MDR. The perfect storm maybe but for whatever reason, and maybe many, service across the board is not what it used to be.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Randyk47