Can we do a B2B for these cruises?

[denamo]

Looking at cruises for 2015. There is a Pacific Northwest cruise that starts in San Diego and ends in Vancouver, Canada. The B2B would be an Alaska cruise that goes from Vancouver to Seattle, WA. Can we do this since debarkation is in Canada and not a US port?

Edited April 3, 2014 by denamo

[Clarea]

Looking at cruises for 2015. There is a Pacific Northwest cruise that starts in San Diego and ends in Vancouver, Canada. The B2B would be an Alaska cruise that goes from Vancouver to Seattle, WA. Can we do this since debarkation is in Canada and not a US port?[/COLOR]

If you take a B2B that starts in San Diego and ends in Seattle, without going to a distant foreign port (like Kiribati), it would be illegal under the PVSA.

Edited April 3, 2014 by clarea

[denamo]

If you take a B2B that starts in San Diego and ends in Seattle, without going to a distant foreign port (like Kiribati), it would be illegal under the PVSA.

 

The one embarking in San Diego stops in Victoria, Canada (not so distant ;)) before disembarkation in Vancouver. Does that count as enough of a "foreign port" even though distance isn't really involved so much? (Yes, I know Canada is a foreign country for me as a U.S. citizen. :D hee-hee)

[Clarea]

The one embarking in San Diego stops in Victoria, Canada (not so distant ;)) before disembarkation in Vancouver. Does that count as enough of a "foreign port" even though distance isn't really involved so much? (Yes, I know Canada is a foreign country for me as a U.S. citizen. :D hee-hee)

No, Canada is not a distant foreign port for the purposes of the PVSA. On the west coast, it has to be someplace farther out than Hawaii.

[denamo]

No, Canada is not a distant foreign port for the purposes of the PVSA. On the west coast, it has to be someplace farther out than Hawaii.

 

Thanks so much for your response. It's what I vaguely remembered reading here on CC. Oh, well...would be nice. ;)

[Beachin2]

The Vancouver then Seattle (or the other way) sure is screwing things up for those of us who like to do B2B - especially with the restart of west coast coastal cruises.

 

Why not leave 1 ship in each? Certainly doable to change ships on turnaround day for a modified B2B.

 

Must be a tax advantage or something.

[BARNET]

Looking at cruises for 2015. There is a Pacific Northwest cruise that starts in San Diego and ends in Vancouver, Canada. The B2B would be an Alaska cruise that goes from Vancouver to Seattle, WA. Can we do this since debarkation is in Canada and not a US port?

 

We looked at this cruise as well, what In don't understand is that you can't do a cruise from USA to Canada because it's not a distance foreign port.

A week later you can sail from one USA state to visit another USA state without visiting a distance foreign port or does Victoria, British Columbia / Vancouver, British Columbia then become a distance foreign port. :confused:

Edited April 3, 2014 by BARNET

[Clarea]

We looked at this cruise as well, what In don't understand is that you can't do a cruise from USA to Canada because it's not a distance foreign port.

A week later you can sail from one USA state to visit another USA state without visiting a distance foreign port or does Victoria, British Columbia / Vancouver, British Columbia then become a distance foreign port. :confused:

If you are on a closed end cruise (starts and ends at the same US port), then you only need to visit any foreign port (does not need to be distant), so stopping in Canada qualifies.

[BARNET]

If you are on a closed end cruise (starts and ends at the same US port), then you only need to visit any foreign port (does not need to be distant), so stopping in Canada qualifies.

 

Thanks for explaining that am I right in thinking someone is trying to repeal the Jones Act.

[Jeannie333333]

We looked at this cruise as well, what In don't understand is that you can't do a cruise from USA to Canada because it's not a distance foreign port.

A week later you can sail from one USA state to visit another USA state without visiting a distance foreign port or does Victoria, British Columbia / Vancouver, British Columbia then become a distance foreign port. :confused:

 

 

hi, I noticed you are from London, just thought I would mention that I have booked this cruise as a B2B and this rule only seems to count for USA citizens and not for UK citizens...hope that helps:)

[CarpeCerevisi]

The PVSA places restrictions on the transport of passengers by non-US flagged vessels. The scenarios are as such:

 

US port to the same US port (closed loop) - this is allowed as long as at least one port of call is a foreign port.

 

US port to a foreign port and vice versa - allowed without restrictions.

 

US port to a different US port - allowed only if at least one port of call is a distant foreign port. In this hemisphere, that consists of South America (the ABC islands are considered to be part of South America.)

 

In the case of a B2B, both cruises combined are considered as a whole. Thus, even though they are two separate bookings, the law still considers it to be one voyage. The San Diego to Vancouver and Vancouver to Seattle B2B is therefore considered to be a voyage from San Diego to Seattle, and since it does not stop in South America, is not legal.

 

As far as the repeal of the PVSA is concerned, the foreign based cruise lines and the ports would love it, the seaman's union opposes repeal. There are also those that want to retain the law to protect US shipping concerns both for economic reasons as well as national security reasons.

[BillB48]

hi, I noticed you are from London, just thought I would mention that I have booked this cruise as a B2B and this rule only seems to count for USA citizens and not for UK citizens...hope that helps:)

 

Citizenship does not enter into, it applies to everyone. If you are boarding in San Diego and ultimately disembarking in Seattle, it is not a legal itinerary in regard to the PVSA. You need to double check the booking because it could possibly lead to you traveling over here and then being denied a leg of your planned cruise. It is quite possible that where you made the booking was not aware of the PVSA requirements.

[S_cruiser]

I have called RCL twice and was told there was absolutely no way that these 2 cruises could be taken consecutively. Talking about being disappointed as I thought that I had found the perfect B2B cruises.

 

It really is too bad that it works out that way.

[Clarea]

I have called RCL twice and was told there was absolutely no way that these 2 cruises could be taken consecutively. Talking about being disappointed as I thought that I had found the perfect B2B cruises.

 

It really is too bad that it works out that way.

It is too bad.

 

In the past, some cruises would have the first stop be in Ensenada, and they would pick up the B2B passengers there, thus avoiding the law. They would even help by arranging a bus to take the passengers from the US to Ensenada.

Edited April 3, 2014 by clarea

[Eng23]

Citizenship does not enter into, it applies to everyone. If you are boarding in San Diego and ultimately disembarking in Seattle, it is not a legal itinerary in regard to the PVSA. You need to double check the booking because it could possibly lead to you traveling over here and then being denied a leg of your planned cruise. It is quite possible that where you made the booking was not aware of the PVSA requirements.

I agree that you should double check your booking. If you board the ship you are considered a passenger and all passengers on the sailing fall under the PVSA regulation regardless of citizenship as stated previously.

[cruisenfever]

The PVSA places restrictions on the transport of passengers by non-US flagged vessels. The scenarios are as such:

 

US port to the same US port (closed loop) - this is allowed as long as at least one port of call is a foreign port.

 

US port to a foreign port and vice versa - allowed without restrictions.

 

US port to a different US port - allowed only if at least one port of call is a distant foreign port. In this hemisphere, that consists of South America (the ABC islands are considered to be part of South America.)

 

In the case of a B2B, both cruises combined are considered as a whole. Thus, even though they are two separate bookings, the law still considers it to be one voyage. The San Diego to Vancouver and Vancouver to Seattle B2B is therefore considered to be a voyage from San Diego to Seattle, and since it does not stop in South America, is not legal.

 

As far as the repeal of the PVSA is concerned, the foreign based cruise lines and the ports would love it, the seaman's union opposes repeal. There are also those that want to retain the law to protect US shipping concerns both for economic reasons as well as national security reasons.

Great explanation Larry. I'm going to copy and paste this into my notes if it's OK with you?

[cruisenfever]

I have called RCL twice and was told there was absolutely no way that these 2 cruises could be taken consecutively. Talking about being disappointed as I thought that I had found the perfect B2B cruises.

 

It really is too bad that it works out that way.

I know what you mean about disappointment. In October of 2015 we wanted to do the Serenade from Cape Liberty NJ to Quebec and then Quebec to Ft. Lauderdale. 2 great itineraries that can not be booked as a b2b because of the PVSA ACT.:(

[critterchick]

Citizenship does not enter into, it applies to everyone. If you are boarding in San Diego and ultimately disembarking in Seattle, it is not a legal itinerary in regard to the PVSA. You need to double check the booking because it could possibly lead to you traveling over here and then being denied a leg of your planned cruise. It is quite possible that where you made the booking was not aware of the PVSA requirements.

 

I wonder if whoever handles the UK and other nationalities' bookings is asleep at the switch. In 2011, we sailed Rhapsody from Honolulu to Vancouver and encountered an English couple and a South African couple wh were staying on to Seattle. Several US passengers on our Roll Call reporting not being able to do so.

 

Since we disembarked in Vancouver, I don't know if the passengers doing the B2B ended up paying a fine or were denied the second leg of the cruise.

[DandDM]

Looking at cruises for 2015. There is a Pacific Northwest cruise that starts in San Diego and ends in Vancouver, Canada. The B2B would be an Alaska cruise that goes from Vancouver to Seattle, WA. Can we do this since debarkation is in Canada and not a US port?

 

If you are flexible and willing to try other lines/ships, you may be able to find a second ship to jump on to for the second leg. The PVSA doesn't apply if you change ships. However, as I'm guessing you are looking at the same cruise as I am booked on next year, I haven't seen any good options yet. Usually Princess and Holland has some short cruises around that time, but those are mysteriously gone for 2015.

[CRUISEBOY305]

Looking at cruises for 2015. There is a Pacific Northwest cruise that starts in San Diego and ends in Vancouver, Canada. The B2B would be an Alaska cruise that goes from Vancouver to Seattle, WA. Can we do this since debarkation is in Canada and not a US port?

 

A friend of mine is doing those two cruises. Royal called him a day after he booked saying this cruise was a violation of PVSA. He ended up booking the San Juan to San Diego sailing as well for this to be legal.

Edited April 4, 2014 by CRUISEBOY305

[mr walker]

I wonder if whoever handles the UK and other nationalities' bookings is asleep at the switch.

 

Not in our experience, if anything they were over vigilent. We are booked B2B2B on Rhapsody OTS

#1Seattle- Vancouver

#2Vancouver-Honolulu

#3 Honolulu-Sydney

from 29Aug this year.

 

At 1st we were told we couldn't do this & our TA in Sydney spent hours on the phone to USA sorting it out. Also the good folks here on cc who understood the rules showed us all was good & that it had nothing to do with nationality, just PVSA. We eventually got an email from RC confirming all was good :)

 

Any of the 3 individually or all 3 together are fine as is #2 & #3- you can't do #1 & #2 only together - embark & disembark in 2 different US ports without visiting a distant foreign port.

 

Happy cruising.

[Coralc]

#1Seattle- Vancouver

#2Vancouver-Honolulu

#3 Honolulu-Sydney

from 29Aug this year.

 

 

Happy cruising.

 

Gosh, I wish we had that much vacation time! Have a wonderful cruise(s)! :D:):D

[mr walker]

Gosh, I wish we had that much vacation time! Have a wonderful cruise(s)!

 

Thanks for your kind wishes - we are counting down the days. A trip like this is on our bucket list & we wanted to do it before we got too old to make the most of it - we are young at heart, but we get older every year :). It is expensive to fly to USA/Canada from Sydney & so we wanted to make the most of it. I wanted to cruise Alaska & DW wanted to cruise Hawaii, so we compromised :D I guess that's how we have managed 33 years of marriage - our anniversary is actually today.

 

So then we said, let's sail home thru the Pacific Islands. We will be doing this with our great friends from Syndey & plan to have a great trip. We are actually spending a week self driving thru the Canadian Rockies before the cruises.

As for vacation time - I am taking 6 weeks long service leave from my job, time accrued over the past 38 years:eek:

And apart from that - it's only money :D:D:D

 

Happy cruising

[BillB48]

I wonder if whoever handles the UK and other nationalities' bookings is asleep at the switch. In 2011, we sailed Rhapsody from Honolulu to Vancouver and encountered an English couple and a South African couple wh were staying on to Seattle. Several US passengers on our Roll Call reporting not being able to do so.

 

Since we disembarked in Vancouver, I don't know if the passengers doing the B2B ended up paying a fine or were denied the second leg of the cruise.

 

I just assume that on this side of the pond Royal might be a little more tuned in to the PVSA and they watch those trans Pacific B2Bs closely.

 

Could those two couples have joined the Rhapsody before HON? If they boarded in Australia (SYD-SEA) that cruise would have been OK with the PVSA. Sometimes adding a leg to a B2B keeps you from getting cross wise with the PVSA. I guess there is someone out there just trying to make cruising more challenging!:D

[BARNET]

hi, I noticed you are from London, just thought I would mention that I have booked this cruise as a B2B and this rule only seems to count for USA citizens and not for UK citizens...hope that helps:)

 

Having read what the others are saying I have to agree a friend in the US book the first leg of the cruise from San Diego, and then put a hold on the same cabin for the second cruise, 2 days later booked the second cruise in a hope of getting round it at that time nothing was flagged as he had used a TA.

 

When Rccl received the booking and cross checked them he received a call asking which one of the cruise's he was going to cancel. If you have used a TA no doubt when Rccl do the same with your booking you may very well receive the same type of call. When I was looking at the cruise I was talking to Rccl direct that is why it flagged straight away.

 

Good luck anyway.