Live from the Crown; 'Norovirus' precautions in full swing

[Salacia]

The CDC has just posted information regarding this outbreak on their website.

Number of passengers who have reported being ill during the voyage out of total number of passengers onboard: 122 of 3161 (3.86%)

Number of crew who have reported being ill during the voyage out of total number of crew onboard: 30 of 1176 (2.55%)

Predominant symptoms: Vomiting, diarrhea

 

"...A CDC Vessel Sanitation Program environmental health officer will board the ship in Los Angeles, CA on April 12, 2014 to conduct a targeted environmental health assessment, and evaluate the outbreak and response activities. Specimens are being collected and will be sent to the CDC lab for testing." -copied from http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/outbreak/2014/april12_crown_princess.htm

[chengkp75]

The CDC has just posted information regarding this outbreak on their website.

Number of passengers who have reported being ill during the voyage out of total number of passengers onboard: 122 of 3161 (3.86%)

Number of crew who have reported being ill during the voyage out of total number of crew onboard: 30 of 1176 (2.55%)

Predominant symptoms: Vomiting, diarrhea

 

"...A CDC Vessel Sanitation Program environmental health officer will board the ship in Los Angeles, CA on April 12, 2014 to conduct a targeted environmental health assessment, and evaluate the outbreak and response activities. Specimens are being collected and will be sent to the CDC lab for testing." -copied from http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/outbreak/2014/april12_crown_princess.htm

 

Hadn't gotten over to them this morning. This is a boiler plate statement you will see for all of their outbreak updates. The part about a boarding inspection will usually come when the percentage tops 5%, or there doesn't seem to be a drop in incidences per day, or there is a multi-cruise outbreak. It is mainly to check the medical center's records, conduct contact interviews with passengers and crew, and review the procedures being used. They will also take the fecal samples that medical has managed to collect to see if it is indeed noro, and what strain.

[Colo Cruiser]

:(:confused::(:confused: We are very concerned about going on the 4/26 Cruise, does not seem like this ship has been able to clean up its act, the history of these problems is of great concern, heads should roll over these persistent problems some folks in leadership rolls on and off this "SICK SHIP" should be held accountable.

 

 

Sounds like you should cancel while you can. I doubt you will be happy on your cruise regardless.

[rtlk]

This is a management problem!! If this was a random attack then ok your argument is valid. THIS IS NOT RANDOM, THIS IS AN ON GOING PROBLEM WITH THIS SHIP, IT CAN ONLY BE CONSIDERED A "SICK SHIP". IT HAPPENS REGULARLY it seems like every cruise we read something about the Crown and its problems. The crew and corp management simply are not paying ENOUGH attention. Don't get me wrong, we have cruised 20 times with Princess, we were really looking forward to having the Crown here on the West Coast, now were not so sure. THESE PAST FEW YEARS IT SHOWS IN ALL AREA THE DUMBING DOWN OF THE ONCE GREAT CRUISE LINE, ITS SAD ALL AROUND..

 

Time that the Corporate folks come down out of the Ivory tower in Santa Clarita and remove some folks and bring in others from the fleet that seem to be able to keep the ships they are responsible for in good safe condition. Just like the Navy does when a ship is not performing, they make an example of the leadership on the ship and bring in new blood who are experienced managers. Others in the fleet will know they better tow the line or they are on the beach!

 

TIME TO MAKE THAT EXAMPLE AND LET THE PUBLIC KNOW THAT THEY HAVE DONE THAT AND ARE CONCERN AT THE UP MOST LEVEL OF THE COMPANY!!!

Edited April 11, 2014 by rtlk

[Quenby]

Sounds like you should cancel while you can. I doubt you will be happy on your cruise regardless.

 

Amen

[tonit964]

This is a management problem!! If this was a random attack then ok your argument is valid. THIS IS NOT RANDOM, THIS IS AN ON GOING PROBLEM WITH THIS SHIP, IT CAN ONLY BE CONSIDERED A "SICK SHIP". IT HAPPENS REGULARLY it seems like every cruise we read something about the Crown and its problems. The crew and corp management simply are not paying ENOUGH attention. Don't get me wrong, we have cruised 20 times with Princess, we were really looking forward to having the Crown here on the West Coast, now were not so sure. THESE PAST FEW YEARS IT SHOWS IN ALL AREA THE DUMBING DOWN OF THE ONCE GREAT CRUISE LINE, ITS SAD ALL AROUND..

 

Time that the Corporate folks come down out of the Ivory tower in Santa Clarita and remove some folks and bring in others from the fleet that seem to be able to keep the ships they are responsible for in good safe condition. Just like the Navy does when a ship is not performing, they make an example of the leadership on the ship and bring in new blood who are experienced managers. Others in the fleet will know they better tow the line or they are on the beach!

 

TIME TO MAKE THAT EXAMPLE AND LET THE PUBLIC KNOW THAT THEY HAVE DONE THAT AND ARE CONCERN AT THE UP MOST LEVEL OF THE COMPANY!!!

 

You really should calm down. :)

 

It's not good for your health to get so upset over something you have no control.

[west coast cruiser]

huh? The previous cruise had about 1% reportable cases, and the present cruise appears (from last night's west coast news reports) to still be under 5%, so this is not a major outbreak. There are still over 2800 passengers onboard that are not sick. There was a deep cleaning between cruises, and there are protocols in place during this cruise, and according to those same news broadcasts (someone posted a link over on carnival forum, not that the tv station got it all right), the numbers are dropping. If the numbers weren't dropping by the end of the voyage, the usph/cdc would have an investigation team board the ship at the next turnaround (today?) to check on all protocols being used. As soon as the reportable cases reaches 2% of passengers and crew, there must be a special report made to the usph, with 24 hour updates, another report when cases reaches 3%, again with 24 hour updates. So the usph is tracking this every day, and can weigh in at any time if they feel that the ship is not doing enough.

 

Multiple cruise outbreaks are usually caused by b2b cruisers or infected crew, both of which were on the crown. All it takes is for one infected person, who has not shown symptoms yet, or who may never show symptoms, not using good hygiene to touch something after it is sanitized, and the cycle repeats all over again.

 

Preventing noro is all about personal hygiene, whether passenger or crew, and the crew are trained and drilled in hygiene, while the passengers are not. Once it is onboard, or in the college dorm or nursing home, it is very difficult to contain.

 

amen!!!!!

[EddieCruzer]

Sounds like you should cancel while you can. I doubt you will be happy on your cruise regardless.

 

 

Double amen! ;)

[MauiLvrs]

:(:confused::(:confused: We are very concerned about going on the 4/26 Cruise, does not seem like this ship has been able to clean up its act, the history of these problems is of great concern, heads should roll over these persistent problems some folks in leadership rolls on and off this "SICK SHIP" should be held accountable.

 

Well ... just be happy that you are not leaving tomorrow with us!!! :p

 

Sounds like you should cancel while you can. I doubt you will be happy on your cruise regardless.

There's an idea...

[mellapl]

Double amen! ;)

 

 

Triple Amen!

[chengkp75]

This is a management problem!! If this was a random attack then ok your argument is valid. THIS IS NOT RANDOM, THIS IS AN ON GOING PROBLEM WITH THIS SHIP, IT CAN ONLY BE CONSIDERED A "SICK SHIP". IT HAPPENS REGULARLY it seems like every cruise we read something about the Crown and its problems. The crew and corp management simply are not paying ENOUGH attention. Don't get me wrong, we have cruised 20 times with Princess, we were really looking forward to having the Crown here on the West Coast, now were not so sure. THESE PAST FEW YEARS IT SHOWS IN ALL AREA THE DUMBING DOWN OF THE ONCE GREAT CRUISE LINE, ITS SAD ALL AROUND..

 

Time that the Corporate folks come down out of the Ivory tower in Santa Clarita and remove some folks and bring in others from the fleet that seem to be able to keep the ships they are responsible for in good safe condition. Just like the Navy does when a ship is not performing, they make an example of the leadership on the ship and bring in new blood who are experienced managers. Others in the fleet will know they better tow the line or they are on the beach!

 

TIME TO MAKE THAT EXAMPLE AND LET THE PUBLIC KNOW THAT THEY HAVE DONE THAT AND ARE CONCERN AT THE UP MOST LEVEL OF THE COMPANY!!!

 

Not being a frequent Princess cruiser, and not always looking at all the threads on the forums, to what are you referring?

 

I went to my "friend":rolleyes: cruise junkie, because if it had anything to do with a cruise ship, he's got it listed.

 

2014: the noro outbreak

2013: one cite for "remaining in port due to high seas", and one cite for "blocked toilets"

2012: "major" noro outbreak, 102 total cases, one cite of a small fire in a pax cabin

 

So, I find one act of god, two noro outbreaks in two years, a bunch of blocked toilets (most likely caused by flushing something down like clothing), and a fire which we don't know whether the ship or the passenger were responsible for. Doesn't sound like a sick ship to me.

[luv2cruisin]

I don't think I would trust the media reports anyway. :eek:

 

The Santa Barbara article mentioned above in post #50 derived it's info from the local health department. In part....

 

"...the Public Health Department announced on Wednesday. Public Health Director Doctor Takashi Wada boarded the ship Wednesday morning and found that the vessel has heightened its sanitation protocols and “is taking all of the necessary precautions.”

Edited April 11, 2014 by luv2cruisin

[melodyina]

Hello from the Crown!

Continuing my updates - this will be my last until I'm back home in Alaska.

 

Noro update: To reaffirm - "YES" the breakfast line in the Horizon Court is very quick and smooth when each station is manned and you are served. It is true - the bacon shufflers really do hold the line up, and on this cruise - you just take what you are served, and.. onwards. :)

 

Steamroom in Ladies Lotus Spa: Still out of order. Day #3. I do say this is the most disappointing event in my trip. Not because of the Norovirus, its when I ask the gal at the counter if the steam room wiill be repaired they just look at you blankly that they are not aware. So on day #2 I asked 'is the steam room out of order because of Noro" and I got a better more direct answer of 'No, I believe a pipe is broken'. Much better answer.

 

Norovirus preventative '1' - me '0'. My favorite traveling navy blue shirt is a victim of the Norovirus sanitation. Blame it on the belly or the b-0-0-b-s, when in Criooners martini bar my shirt touched the table. Ok - there was bleach residue and I now have a bleach streak on my shirt. Score for the cleaners! Zero for me. Perhaps I can find a sharpie in blue and color match? I don't know but i'm not ready to give up that shirt just yet..

 

Speaking of Crooners... was the old guy's wife ill in the stateroom and he was on cruisemode? OMG! On formal night 4 (ok I'll use the word gorgeous) women in big hair and 5" heels and dresses to the floor and cleavage glaore were enjoying their drinks... then he came like a shark.. oh trying to impress - he was 71 and was very proud and boisterous that he 'loved the beautiful ladies'. Ok - my blue shirt has a bleach stain, and my shoes are flat... I didn't get a second glance or any comment. We left (hubby and I) and moved to a different spot as he just 'heard enough'..

 

Height of Heels. Ok - so I had the wrong size heels for this crowd. I made my 'Mel rule of thumb" Lets try this - if you are in the twenties - heels can be 5", if you are in the thirties - heels can be 4", if you are in the fourties heels can be 3", fifties - 2" and sixties 1" and older flats or slippers. I wont' say my age, but - my heels were only 1" off and not 4" off.. I feel better.

 

Wearing WHITE PANTS and smiling! Yes - today in Ensanada I am wearing White Pants. I - did not get the Norovirus on this cruise - or any symptoms there-of.. (Did I mention the lady who 'flew' into the locker room of the Lotus Spa with a 'quick where's the bathroom'..).. :eek:

 

San Diego - shame on you new media.. ok - here's some gossip...

Hubby and I walked to Ralphs grocery store. He wanted wine.. So as we are checking out I asked to sign up for the card and the gal asked 'Are you off that sick ship?" I said 'Yes'. and she said "ARE YOU SICK?".. (like perhaps she wasn't going to ring us up..." I said 'no'. She said she heard that we had to make an emergency stop in port and that they were letting everyone off to go home and giving refunds. I said 'no, this is a normal scheduled stop for us - perhaps you are thinking of another ship'.. Reassuring we weren't sick we checked out.. and as we were nearing the ship - there was the TV crew all just waiting to attack. So sure enough on the evening news they really glamorized the illness. Now i'm not sure of everything they reported as it seemed news to me... yes, TV crews in action.

 

Ensenada - they must get the San Diego news, as it took two hours for our ship to get 'clearance' to come ashore. Event the captain announced that there was a delay... I can only relate it to the bad news media in San Diego.

 

All for now! The ship has been enjoyable.. and is VERY VERY Clean.

[luv2cruisin]

We boarded Crown on Feb 15th for the 49 day South American cruise that disembarked in Los Angeles on April 5th. At some point after our port stop in Trinidad, the captain began daily announcements regarding the Norovirus, precautions to take, what to do if's.., as well as how food venues would be handled, etc. The ship's doctor also sent out letters:

 

 

The captain and ship's crew took and treated this matter very seriously. Although everything was being done, there are always the passengers who won't heed to the warnings or stay in the cabin when feeling ill. The real ick factor hit for us when a passenger vomited in the buffet seating area (several days after the announcements began). One of their companion's mentioned that the person wasn't feeling well that day. The 'hazmat' crew cordoned off the area and did a thorough cleaning of the area.

 

Of course there are several examples of ways that some passenger's didn't comply to some of the warnings; many different ways that would even increase the spread of cold/flu. This includes some behaviors on the part of a small number of crew (yes, we shared these minor concerns with the supervisors on duty).

 

Eventually, Norovirus diminished (I don't know if this meant completely annihilated), but the ship began to once again to run it's day as though no one was sick. However, a cold/flu bug seemed to be taking over (many people with coughing, sneezing, and running noses).

 

 

A couple of days before arriving to Los Angeles, the Norovirus announcements began once again and we received another letter from the ship's doctor. The day before disembarkation for example, the buffet was no longer 'self serve'.

 

 

 

 

Personally, I feel bad for others enduring what we have gone through. Although we were doing everything asked of us to avoid getting sick, there was a continual elusive stress on our part as we were in constant fear of contracting Norovirus which would have kept us from going into port for those 'once in a lifetime' opportunities that this 49 day itinerary provided us. Fortunately, we did not get sick and made it to all of our tours.

 

For any staff/crew of the Crown 49 day sailing that may be reading this, a big thank you for your diligent efforts dealing with Norovirus. We will send Princess some observations we made regarding a very small number of crew/staff, and offer precautions that could possibly be improved.

 

Will we cruise again... YES! Too many things go 'right' on all of the cruises we have done. But as always, we will continue to use our own set of precautions even when the ship is "well" :)

[molly2kit]

Hello, I too am on this cruise. When we boarded (late) in LA we were told that it was because of customs after a 49 day South America cruise and an extra thorough every 90 day inspection.

 

When we went to our room at about 2:30 the bed was not made up and no linens in the room or bath.

 

Went to the buffet and that was the first indication of Noro, they were serving everything, except for passengers who came in the exit and did not sanitize before getting plates, etc.

 

If we had been notified before boarding, then we could have made a choice. We would have continued but would have certainly been more diligent in room cleaning.

 

On the ship I have never heard any numbers from the Captain,s broadcasts. Have only seen them in the media. In Santa Barbara some people chatting in a shop thought we should not have been allowed to disembark. Same thing in San Diego. This is something I have not experienced before.

 

I actually thought the numbers must have been much higher.

 

 

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[paul929207]

Thanks for the report

[redtogo]

My husband and I were on the crown for the April, 2012 Transatlantic. Noro was a great concern everyday on the ship. We followed hygiene recommendations and neither one of us were infected.

 

I do question the list that you have provided. I had followed reports on the Crown prior to our sailing. There was more than one report of Noro. I respectfully disagree and think that your list is incomplete. I distinctly remember following news stories and worrying about contracting Noro.

[Colo Cruiser]

Ensenada - they must get the San Diego news, as it took two hours for our ship to get 'clearance' to come ashore. Event the captain announced that there was a delay... I can only relate it to the bad news media in San Diego.

 

Thanks for checking in and enjoy the rest of the cruise.

[RickEk]

I'm sure the news media didn't broadcast anyone who was having a fabulous time onboard... :rolleyes:

[chengkp75]

Biggest point the news brought up was the PVSA fine for getting off in San Diego, and rolling their eyes that a family "voluntarily" disembarked off an obviously raging contagion onboard the ship.

[chengkp75]

My husband and I were on the crown for the April, 2012 Transatlantic. Noro was a great concern everyday on the ship. We followed hygiene recommendations and neither one of us were infected.

 

I do question the list that you have provided. I had followed reports on the Crown prior to our sailing. There was more than one report of Noro. I respectfully disagree and think that your list is incomplete. I distinctly remember following news stories and worrying about contracting Noro.

 

Well, as I tried to imply, I don't hold much credence for the fellow who runs cruise junkie, as he has a seriously one sided agenda. But, if an incident, no matter how weird, or how loosely tied to a ship it is, or who is at fault, he will list it. However, those are the only two cases in 2012-2014 that were reported as outbreaks to the CDC. Now, are there times when there are ill passengers and crew, and it is not reported to the CDC? Yes. Until the total cases reaches 2% of the total passengers and crew, only the "normal" report is sent, a minimum of 24 hours prior to arrival in US. So, many, many ships have incidences of noro, but they are not reported as an outbreak. I know of very few cruises that I've worked where there were NO incidences of GI illness. Many times a ship will institute precautions like announcements and no self-service while the numbers are still low, but increasing, to prevent a full reportable outbreak.

 

PS, checked back, the reported outbreak in 2012 was the Feb 4th - 9th cruise.

Edited April 11, 2014 by chengkp75

[Loonbeam]

There is Noro on EVERY cruise, even if just a few people. That's why there is a reporting threshold.

 

That said, there may be features or a design element or a hard to diagnose issue that may make one ship slightly more susceptible.

 

THAT said, there have been two CDC level reported outbreaks since 2012 on the Crown. And no repeats in that time frame. That does not classify it as a sick ship.

 

Unfortunately, all it takes is one missed railing or surface to allow the virus to jump itineraries, or someone who doesn't know they are infected touching a just cleaned surface while disembarking. Or one back to back cruiser who barfs in the piazza bathroom during changeover and doesn't tell anyone for fear of being quarantined (how many people do you think board the ship and head right to that bathroom after waiting in line?). None of those are an indictment of cost cutting or management. In fact, Noro is financially bad for the lines, added cleaning costs, lost excursion, shopping and beverage revenue, medical costs etc..

[chengkp75]

There is Noro on EVERY cruise, even if just a few people. That's why there is a reporting threshold.

 

That said, there may be features or a design element or a hard to diagnose issue that may make one ship slightly more susceptible.

 

THAT said, there have been two CDC level reported outbreaks since 2012 on the Crown. And no repeats in that time frame. That does not classify it as a sick ship.

 

Unfortunately, all it takes is one missed railing or surface to allow the virus to jump itineraries, or someone who doesn't know they are infected touching a just cleaned surface while disembarking. Or one back to back cruiser who barfs in the piazza bathroom during changeover and doesn't tell anyone for fear of being quarantined (how many people do you think board the ship and head right to that bathroom after waiting in line?). None of those are an indictment of cost cutting or management. In fact, Noro is financially bad for the lines, added cleaning costs, lost excursion, shopping and beverage revenue, medical costs etc..

 

Well said. My "favorite" part of a noro incident, is those folks who have an "accident" on the way to the bathroom, remove the soiled clothing, and decide the best way to hide the shame is to flush it down. Incidences of toilet clogs go way up during noro incidents. And no one bothers to mention that the toilets are clogged or that there has been an accident on the restroom floor until housekeeping makes their rounds. Lots of fun during noro season.

 

As you say, someone can be infected, but not symptomatic, so not quarantined, and go around right after sanitizing to start the cycle all over again.

[redtogo]

Well, as I tried to imply, I don't hold much credence for the fellow who runs cruise junkie, as he has a seriously one sided agenda. But, if an incident, no matter how weird, or how loosely tied to a ship it is, or who is at fault, he will list it. However, those are the only two cases in 2012-2014 that were reported as outbreaks to the CDC. Now, are there times when there are ill passengers and crew, and it is not reported to the CDC? Yes. Until the total cases reaches 2% of the total passengers and crew, only the "normal" report is sent, a minimum of 24 hours prior to arrival in US. So, many, many ships have incidences of noro, but they are not reported as an outbreak. I know of very few cruises that I've worked where there were NO incidences of GI illness. Many times a ship will institute precautions like announcements and no self-service while the numbers are still low, but increasing, to prevent a full reportable outbreak.

 

PS, checked back, the reported outbreak in 2012 was the Feb 4th - 9th cruise.

 

 

The percentage is 3% or more of the passengers or crew for the more severe reporting to the CDC. I still had my letter that we received on the Crown. I threw it away last week. Wish I had it now as it explained all of the reporting.

 

There was an outbreak on the Crown - 1/28/2012 to 2/4/2012 u days out of Ft. Lauderdale.

 

Another that you listed 2/4/2012 to 2/0/2012 364 passengers fell ill and 30 crew members

 

Another during December, 2012 which was a 20 day cruise from Venice to Galveston

 

In 2011, there were two cruises on the Crown. 12/3/2011 to 12/17/2011 and

12/17/2011 to 12/24/2011.

[avalon1025]

Princess still provides soap, a smaller version of the previouis size bar. The cabin steward is willing to bring more as needed.

 

There is a combined shampoo/conditioner in a bottle mounted in the shower.

 

So just like my gym....