Long term future of the Cloud

[Emtbsam]

While we have seen the changes on Silversea over the years and wish that things were like the "good old days", we have never yet had a bad time on a Silversea cruise or been disappointed at the end. Yes, some cruises are better than others, but that is more than likely a function of the itinerary, weather or passenger mix.

 

As we age, things change. It makes me much happier to enjoy what is available now rather than bemoan what used to be.

[bsrkent]

Yes, some cruises are better than others, but that is more than likely a function of the itinerary, weather or passenger mix.

As we age, things change. It makes me much happier to enjoy what is available now rather than bemoan what used to be.

 

Very well said, Victoria. And we are so thankful for the places and people we continue to enjoy through Silver Sea.

While a few things may be declining slightly on board, they are nothing in comparision to the decline of our society as a whole.

[rl787]

I read what some of you have said about going back to the pre recession era where standards on ALL luxury lines was higher. I do not think there is any chance of this happening in the short, medium or even long term. To make any profit these ships have to sail as near to full as possible and to sail full you have to sell at what you can get which means discounted rates, this forces cost cutting and in turn slightly lower standards. I feel for a line to up standards and charge a premium over it's competitors it will take time to establish itself. The losses in the early years will be high so it begs the question why bother. As the current formula seems to be working why would a finance house or an individual fund something with risk. Seabourn has the backing of Carnivals deep pockets but other lines do not.

It is not all bad news, our fares are probably 20% lower so at least we are getting a reduced price for slightly less standards. I feel this is how things will stay.

[UKCruiseJeff]

I read what some of you have said about going back to the pre recession era where standards on ALL luxury lines was higher. I do not think there is any chance of this happening in the short, medium or even long term. To make any profit these ships have to sail as near to full as possible and to sail full you have to sell at what you can get which means discounted rates, this forces cost cutting and in turn slightly lower standards. I feel for a line to up standards and charge a premium over it's competitors it will take time to establish itself. The losses in the early years will be high so it begs the question why bother. As the current formula seems to be working why would a finance house or an individual fund something with risk. Seabourn has the backing of Carnivals deep pockets but other lines do not.

It is not all bad news, our fares are probably 20% lower so at least we are getting a reduced price for slightly less standards. I feel this is how things will stay.

 

You are of course correct. The market is much bigger for people with lower standards.

[oregon50]

Yes, totally agree.....which is why I mentioned earlier that it would take an individual with more money than brains to attempt a start up. Also, we're talking about the original product that existed the first five years. Had the owner been able to predict world events, there never would have been more than two ships and we would be sailing in luxury....maybe even ultra luxury.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Yes, totally agree.....which is why I mentioned earlier that it would take an individual with more money than brains to attempt a start up. Also, we're talking about the original product that existed the first five years. Had the owner been able to predict world events, there never would have been more than two ships and we would be sailing in luxury....maybe even ultra luxury.

 

 

Sorry, this isn't correct. It is nothing to do with either world events, or sticking with the first two ships.

 

The issue is the error of expanding from the first four ships (not two) for which the owner had built a niche market and created a very loyal repeat customer base who were increasing in number. During the recession real luxury markets haven't contracted - they have expanded. Genuine luxury markets - not faux luxury markets - are generally recession proof.

 

From Spirit onwards SS went for volume. Volume in this type of market inevitably means moving down market to gain volume.

[oregon50]

My point being that Whisper/Shadow went into service just prior to the 2001 event that changed the world. Yes, I understand your point and agree...... the luxury market is larger today.

Edited May 3, 2014 by oregon50

[UKCruiseJeff]

My point being that Whisper/Shadow went into service just prior to the 2001 event that changed the world. Yes, I understand your point and agree...... the luxury market is larger today.

 

Thanks.

 

I think you are talking about 9/11. No disrespect intended at all but this wasn't an event that changed the world. I can understand that from an American viewpoint it might seem like that but it isn't true. From the SS viewpoint it simply stopped Americans from travelling for a while. Everyone else continued as normal. Whilst the US was the largest market, Silversea by the introduction of Whisper and Shadow (introduced seperately) were starting to focus on expanding their markets geographically into Japan and Australia and doing a better job in Europe and whilst it took a real hit from the US markets it wasn't doing badly overall. It had a core market of loyalists and new geographics to enjoy and that could occupy (easilly in time) the move from 2 to 3 and then 4 ships. Opening an office in Beijing would have easilly filled 4 ships irrespective of 9/11. It was the expansion into expedition and Spirit that triggered the moves down market. By the way ... I don't think the decision to move down market was accidental, I think it was exactly what was intended.

 

With those 4 ships SS had a realtively price-insensitive product and within reason could have maintained an increasingly profitable occupany level at premium diems. That would have preserved quality. Those customers didn't mind too much if it was a "bit more" as long as the product was improving. SS simply decided to change direction and the original customers are exactly where they left us but now we are a market without a product that satisfies.

Edited May 3, 2014 by UKCruiseJeff
ipad spelling corrections ...

[Silver Spectre]

Thanks.

 

I think you are talking about 9/11. No disrespect intended at all but this wasn't an event that changed the world. I can understand that from an American viewpoint it might seem like that but it isn't true. From the SS viewpoint it simply stopped Americans from travelling for a while. Everyone else continued as normal. Whilst the US was the largest market, Silversea by the introduction of Whisper and Shadow (introduced seperately) were starting to focus on expanding their markets geographically into Japan and Australia and doing a better job in Europe and whilst it took a real hit from the US markets it wasn't doing badly overall. It had a core market of loyalists and new geographics to enjoy and that could occupy (easilly in time) the move from 2 to 3 and then 4 ships. Opening an office in Beijing would have easilly filled 4 ships irrespective of 9/11. It was the expansion into expedition and Spirit that triggered the moves down market. By the way ... I don't think the decision to move down market was accidental, I think it was exactly what was intended.

 

With those 4 ships SS had a realtively price-insensitive product and within reason could have maintained an increasingly profitable occupany level at premium diems. That would have preserved quality. Those customers didn't mind too much if it was a "bit more" as long as the product was improving. SS simply decided to change direction and the original customers are exactly where they left us but now we are a market without a product that satisfies.

Good points, well made.

[derbylane]

T

While we have seen the changes on Silversea over the years and wish that things were like the "good old days", we have never yet had a bad time on a Silversea cruise or been disappointed at the end. Yes, some cruises are better than others, but that is more than likely a function of the itinerary, weather or passenger mix.

 

As we age, things change. It makes me much happier to enjoy what is available now rather than bemoan what used to be.

I think you are so correct. UK Jeff has some good observations but they do not really stand up when you look at what SS has done. The Expedition Ships are commanding upwards of one thousand per day per passenger. That is original Cloud pricing. The markets have changed. Younger people with money want expedition experiences. SS as an institution has identified a market and appears to be going after it

[UKCruiseJeff]

T

I think you are so correct. UK Jeff has some good observations but they do not really stand up when you look at what SS has done. The Expedition Ships are commanding upwards of one thousand per day per passenger. That is original Cloud pricing. The markets have changed. Younger people with money want expedition experiences. SS as an institution has identified a market and appears to be going after it

 

Really?

 

The expedition ships are succesful but from an economic point of view, Explorer, Galapagos, and Discoverer with 100% occupancy in total has less passengers than either Shadow or Whisper. The combined occupancy is only 64 passengers more than Wind or Cloud. Running three ships with roughly the same occupancy as the bigger ones means that you would require a considerably higher diem because of the far higher overhead per berth on smaller ships.

 

Roughly 16% of their berths and cruise staff are in expedition ships. I'd say that the diversion of energy and attention to that 16% has probably taken too much of their energy away from what was their crown jewels core expertise - the luxury ostensibly 6 star cruise line and that is represented by the other 84% of where their passengers sleep.

[Travelcat2]

Thanks.

 

I think you are talking about 9/11. No disrespect intended at all but this wasn't an event that changed the world. I can understand that from an American viewpoint it might seem like that but it isn't true. From the SS viewpoint it simply stopped Americans from travelling for a while. Everyone else continued as normal. Whilst the US was the largest market, Silversea by the introduction of Whisper and Shadow (introduced seperately) were starting to focus on expanding their markets geographically into Japan and Australia and doing a better job in Europe and whilst it took a real hit from the US markets it wasn't doing badly overall. It had a core market of loyalists and new geographics to enjoy and that could occupy (easilly in time) the move from 2 to 3 and then 4 ships. Opening an office in Beijing would have easilly filled 4 ships irrespective of 9/11. It was the expansion into expedition and Spirit that triggered the moves down market. By the way ... I don't think the decision to move down market was accidental, I think it was exactly what was intended.

 

With those 4 ships SS had a realtively price-insensitive product and within reason could have maintained an increasingly profitable occupany level at premium diems. That would have preserved quality. Those customers didn't mind too much if it was a "bit more" as long as the product was improving. SS simply decided to change direction and the original customers are exactly where they left us but now we are a market without a product that satisfies.

 

I do not believe anyone said that 9/11 had anything to do with this. IMO, the failing economies had much more to do with luxury cruise travel. And, economy difficulties have hit different parts of the world at different times. I am still not seeing many passengers on Regent, Silversea or Oceania from Italy and Greece, for instance. U.S. sales are picking up and the U.K. has kept fairly steady.

 

It also seems that Silversea markets more toward Europeans (not saying that there is anything wrong with that). I found it interesting that many people from the U.S. would not sail on Silversea (or Seabourn) when they had smoking on balconies and in cabins. The reason I found it interesting is because when Regent went non-smoking, their sales in Europe increased.

 

In any case, it is good to know that the expedition ships continue to run full. As long as Silversea keeps us to maintenance on the ships, they should do well with passengers from all over the world.:)

[UKCruiseJeff]

I do not believe anyone said that 9/11 had anything to do with this.

 

My point being that Whisper/Shadow went into service just prior to the 2001 event that changed the world.

 

I think they did ...:)

[TLCOhio]

The expedition ships are succesful but from an economic point of view, Explorer, Galapagos, and Discoverer with 100% occupancy in total has less passengers than either Shadow or Whisper. The combined occupancy is only 64 passengers more than Wind or Cloud. Running three ships with roughly the same occupancy as the bigger ones means that you would require a considerably higher diem because of the far higher overhead per berth on smaller ships. Roughly 16% of their berths and cruise staff are in expedition ships. I'd say that the diversion of energy and attention to that 16% has probably taken too much of their energy away from what was their crown jewels core expertise - the luxury ostensibly 6 star cruise line and that is represented by the other 84% of where their passengers sleep.

 

Emtbsam: While we have seen the changes on Silversea over the years and wish that things were like the "good old days"' date=' we have never yet had a bad time on a Silversea cruise or been disappointed at the end. Yes, some cruises are better than others, but that is more than likely a function of the itinerary, weather or passenger mix. As we age, things change. It makes me much happier to enjoy what is available now rather than bemoan what used to be. [/quote']

 

Lots of continued, interesting points and background from UKCruiseJeff and others. Agree strongly with Emtbsam on the importance for "the itinerary, weather or passenger mix" making a big difference for overall cruise enjoyment. That was the case with our July 2010 Norway coast cruise up to the North Cape and back on the Silver Cloud. When passengers are happy that pumps up the crew. And those enjoyment factors help to feed the staff, etc. A nice win-win situation when that all comes together and happens.

 

Post 9/11 economics? Yes, that's a factor, but how big it is produces another, different question.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Back from doing a 14-day Celebrity Solstice, Jan. 20-Feb. 3, 2014, Sydney to Auckland adventure on this ship and getting a big sampling for the wonders of "down under” before and after this cruise. Go to:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

for much more information and lots of wonderful pictures on these amazing sights in this great part of the world. Now at 55,144 views for this fun posting.

[drron29]

To be fair 2001 was also the popping of the tech bubble which was more likely to change the habits of luxury pax than 9/11.

[UKCruiseJeff]

To be fair 2001 was also the popping of the tech bubble which was more likely to change the habits of luxury pax than 9/11.

 

I understand that ..... but to be honest most sensible people hopefully saw that bubble way before it burst. Everything was ludicrously overvalued as quite a lot of stuff is now. Only greedy dumb people lost imho. Sensible people took their profit and ran. ;)

 

I think the post I was refering to was about 9/11.

 

I understand that everybody wants different things and I'm not suggesting for a moment my needs are ones shared by the majority. My point is exactly that. At one time SS catered for a minority, now it is catering for a greater majority. I do not expect for a moment anything will change. :)

[TLCOhio]

Only greedy dumb people lost imho. Sensible people took their profit and ran.

 

Appreciate the smart, added comments. BUT, the challenge, however, is to determine . . . what is a "sensible profit" and when to run?? In hindsight, we can determine that with perfect 20/20 perspective. In advance, it is not quite as easy. Many prices are "inflated" now, but there is clearly, especially in the U.S., much slow devaluation of the currency to come.

 

That's why I'm working on planning for our Silver Whisper, March 2015, Kenya to South Africa, sailing, plus land safaris both before and after the sailing. Can't wait for "IT" all to settle out and become normal and stable.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2010, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 142,138 views. Nice to be hitting this high of a level for viewership. Appreciate the interest!!

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[UKCruiseJeff]

Appreciate the smart, added comments. BUT, the challenge, however, is to determine . . . what is a "sensible profit" and when to run?? In hindsight, we can determine that with perfect 20/20 perspective. In advance, it is not quite as easy. Many prices are "inflated" now, but there is clearly, especially in the U.S., much slow devaluation of the currency to come.

 

That's why I'm working on planning for our Silver Whisper, March 2015, Kenya to South Africa, sailing, plus land safaris both before and after the sailing. Can't wait for "IT" all to settle out and become normal and stable.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2010, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 142,138 views. Nice to be hitting this high of a level for viewership. Appreciate the interest!!

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

 

Values were for companies that had yet to make profits. It was a Gold Rush. Senseless. Not 20/20 imho. They were vapour values.

 

You enjoy your cruise Terry. :)

Edited May 4, 2014 by UKCruiseJeff

[oregon50]

It seems that customers that climbed aboard after 2004 are happy enough with the product. The decline witnessed by them is not the drastic decline others see. I do believe that SS demise was imminent during 2012 and that they are in better shape today.

Edited May 4, 2014 by oregon50

[TLCOhio]

You enjoy your cruise Terry. :)

 

oregon50: It seems that customers that climbed aboard after 2004 are happy enough with the product. The decline witnessed by them is not the drastic decline others see. I do believe that SS demise was imminent during 2012 and that they are in better shape today.

 

Appreciate so much the kind wishes from UK Jeff for our upcoming' date=' planned Africa cruise, plus the perspective from oregon50 that things have improved with Silversea since 2012. [i']That's a good sign for us[/i] on a March 2015 Silver Whisper adventure. As the economy slowly picks up from the tougher times during 2008-2012, it makes it easier for businesses to re-invest and have cash-flow to upgrade the quality, etc.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Celebrity Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of nice visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 170,107 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[UKCruiseJeff]

Appreciate so much the kind wishes from UK Jeff for our upcoming, planned Africa cruise, plus the perspective from oregon50 that things have improved with Silversea since 2012. That's a good sign for us

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

 

Terry, you will always have a great time .... you are of a continuously positive and optimistic disposition.

 

:)

[TLCOhio]

Terry, you will always have a great time .... you are of a continuously positive and optimistic disposition. :)

 

Don't worry, UK Jeff, that I can't be tough, express reality, look at potential downside risks, notice screw-ups, be unhappy at times, etc. My wife can tell you the real truth. Appreciate your kind comments. My view, however, for these boards is not to focus too much on just the negatives. Celebrate what you enjoy and like. More fun to look at things in that way. Or, there is an old saying . . . "How can you soar like an eagle if you are flying with turkeys?" If you dwell too much on negatives, it affects you attitudes and experiences in a negative manner. Life is too short than to live it otherwise. Just my view.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

If Venice is one of your future desires or past favorites, you might look at this earlier posting that I did on the Italy board that shows many options and visual potentials for this city that is so great for "walking around", personally sampling the great history and architecture. This posting is now at 36,554 views and I appreciate those who have dropped by and tuned in.

Venice: Loving It & Why??!!

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1278226

[UKCruiseJeff]

I must admit, I have harboured many fantasies .... some best not publicly expressed .... but through your wise words I promise that I will not be adding flying with turkeys.

 

:)

[Silver Spectre]

Many prices are "inflated" now, but there is clearly, especially in the U.S., much slow devaluation of the currency to come.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2010, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 142,138 views. Nice to be hitting this high of a level for viewership. Appreciate the interest!!

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

 

Try telling that to SS management when pricing future cruises. Current currency conversion for 2014 & 2015 is 1£ = $1.5!!

[Stumblefoot]

Try telling that to SS management when pricing future cruises. Current currency conversion for 2014 & 2015 is 1£ = $1.5!!

If only us US tourists could get such a conversion rate when we visit England this summer! The credit card companies are charging nearly $1.70 = 1£ now.

 

Could you work with a US Travel Agent Silver Spectre to book a voyage and put that extra 13% in your pocket instead of Silversea's?