Is Carnival Falling Behind?

[TPFKAH]

Let me just say that Vista will be Carnival's most innovative ship yet! So I think...

 

I believe you were the one that the Freedom would be Sunshined.

[cruisinfanatic]

Lets not forget that RCCL copied Carnival's idea of outdoor movies and water slides!

If you consider bumper cars to be innovative with RCCL, go pay for most venues on their ships that you will not use but are being charged for

anyway!

 

Many of RCCL new and larger ships can only fit in a limited number of ports. I not too keen to spend more money on a smaller cabin with less storage space and then end up getting a hot dog from a truck on board in the dining room.

 

 

 

MARAPRINCE

I seem to remember Princess having the first out door screens. Did Carnival "copy" that? What ship doesn't have some sort of a slide? Most did and do now.

[TPFKAH]

Lets not forget that RCCL copied Carnival's idea of outdoor movies and water slides!

 

 

 

MARAPRINCE

 

I thought Princess had movie screen first MUTS.

[wanderingjew]

What innovations in design is CCL doing?

 

I really couldn't disagree more. Carnival is building ships that are quite innovative and while not looking to build behemoths have increase the size of their ships and added unique features in their Dream Class ships.

 

With the ongoing addition of 2.0 upgrades on the Conquest class ships even those feel new and fresh.

 

I don't think you can compare a Conquest class to a Breeze or a Magic.....the later simply have so much more than the former class that it's apples to oranges.

 

The Vista is going to be the largest and newest class of ship that comes out in 2016, and while I'm very excited to start seeing how the larger space is used I'm not really a fan of the ships getting too much bigger......I'm glad the Conquest and Dream class ships will still be around for a few more decades.

 

I don't really see us cruising with RCCL or NCL.

[Hendricks Clan]

you are uninformed[/quote

 

Yes, they seem very uninformed!

[wanderingjew]

Excellent comments. HAL has always been noted for their service and attention to detail and that is their selling point. In the past, while Carnival was known as a budget line you could always count on their their service, how friendly the staff was, the pride that the staff took in their ships, and the quality of food.

 

However, I feel that Carnival no longer has these "qualities" especially in regards to food quality and service.

 

We have seen numerous examples where a business in an attempt to hold down on price compromises everything else. Usually these business models do not survive. Will Carnival be such an example.

To me CCL is now the UNFUN Ship

[Big_G]

Lets not forget that RCCL copied Carnival's idea of outdoor movies and water slides!

What ship did they copy water slides on?

 

If you consider bumper cars to be innovative with RCCL, go pay for most venues on their ships that you will not use but are being charged for

anyway!

 

Well it is innovative (innovative-introducing new ideas; original and creative in thinking). Whether you thing it's worth it maybe another story.

 

I not too keen to spend more money on a smaller cabin with less storage space and then end up getting a hot dog from a truck on board in the dining room.

 

Hyperbolize much?

 

The Quantum does not have a MDR but a number of dining venues some of which are extra charge. The downfall here is that the menus do not change daily. One of them will require formal attire all the time -- lobster is on the menu here. Reservations are "strongly" suggested for both the dining venues and shows. No reservation, show up and take your chances. The buffet area will be open 24/7 and serve breakfast all day. Sort of tells you where RCCL is expecting the most activity.

 

Once again, more innovation. I'm not sure I would consider any of this a negative seeing as how the ship hasn't even sailed yet. I'll wait for the reviews.

[Hendricks Clan]

Lets not forget that RCCL copied Carnival's idea of outdoor movies and water slides!

 

If you consider bumper cars to be innovative with RCCL, go pay for most venues on their ships that you will not use but are being charged for

anyway!

 

Many of RCCL new and larger ships can only fit in a limited number of ports. I not too keen to spend more money on a smaller cabin with less storage space and then end up getting a hot dog from a truck on board in the dining room.

 

The Quantum does not have a MDR but a number of dining venues some of which are extra charge. The downfall here is that the menus do not change daily. One of them will require formal attire all the time -- lobster is on the menu here. Reservations are "strongly" suggested for both the dining venues and shows. No reservation, show up and take your chances. The buffet area will be open 24/7 and serve breakfast all day. Sort of tells you where RCCL is expecting the most activity.

 

MARAPRINCE

 

 

If it works anything like NCL's Freestyle dinning it will be great. NCL's and RCI's new builds go and visit the same ports of call as Carnival's. You want to say RCI copied CCL, how about anytime dinning copying NCL's Freestyle dinning, or better yet how about Carnival Corp copying NCL with Half Moon Cay...NCL was the first cruise line to offer a private island.

[kybluecruiser]

Threads like this are useless...... It just becomes a "ship" measuring contest. Where you have RCI fans jump in to say how carnival sucks and RCI is so much better. Then you have Carnival loyal customers like myself who get irritated and respond. Regaurdless what anybody says it is about as long as it is broad. Those who like carnival are going to keep sailing carnival regaurdless of what new things RCI comes out with. Those who prefer RCI over Carnival will continue to sail Royal no matter what Carnival does. It is so easy to get in a shouting match on a message board thread using made up screen names over which brand is more innovative. Which i am as guilty as the next guy. Bottom line have sailed both i think they are more alike then not when it comes down to the basic services. Now NCL is a differnt story lol.

[TPFKAH]

Threads like this are useless...... It just becomes a "ship" measuring contest. Where you have RCI fans jump in to say how carnival sucks and RCI is so much better. Then you have Carnival loyal customers like myself who get irritated and respond. Regaurdless what anybody says it is about as long as it is broad. Those who like carnival are going to keep sailing carnival regaurdless of what new things RCI comes out with. Those who prefer RCI over Carnival will continue to sail Royal no matter what Carnival does. It is so easy to get in a shouting match on a message board thread using made up screen names over which brand is more innovative. Which i am as guilty as the next guy. Bottom line have sailed both i think they are more alike then not when it comes down to the basic services. Now NCL is a differnt story lol.

 

I don't find that true. I find both sides of the issues stating exactly what each line offers. The only ones whose time would be wasted is those that think an opinion other than theirs is not valid.

Edited May 12, 2014 by TPFKAH

[loxley]

Interesting note. However many years ago G.M., especially with its Cadillac Division was the envy of the world and their automobiles were certainly equal and in many cases (Toronado-front wheel drive) better than their European Counterparts. Then G.M. decided to build cookie cutter cars and stress cost as its primary objective in building cars. The result... the U.S. Government had to bail them out and today G.M. happy to compete with Toyata and Hyundai.

 

I am just saying that while inexpensive, Carnival used to be able to compete with the other cruise lines. It is my opinion, and anyone has the right to disagree, that their new "inovations" are not in the same class as RCCL and NCL today.

 

So you think Carnival should jump on the bandwagon and join the race to put themselves out of a huge part of the population's pocketbooks?

 

This may come as a surprise to you, but I don't give a flip about the new stuff coming out on the mega ships. I will not pay for all those things I will not get use of.

 

You can buy an s class merc, but how many of those do you see on the roads? I look at them and admire them but I will never own one because I am not willing to pay that for transportation.

[RuthlessBoss]

I don't think Carnival is lagging. What they are choosing "not to do" may be a smart move. My guess is there's going to be a problem down the road with too many mega ships and not enough people to fill them all. Those mega ships must cost a fortune to build, let alone maintain them when something goes wrong.

I am curious about some of those biggies out there, but not likely to sail on one unless it's an extended cruise. I don't care for spending several days just learning my way around a ship. My biggest has been Dream, but find I prefer them smaller.

[EZ4]

RCI has 5 newbuilds on the books. NCL 2. Even Viking Ocean Cruises will go from 0 to 4 new ships by 2017. Meanwhile, Costa gets the old Celebration transferred from Ibero, who it looks likely will be shuttered by the end of 2015. Carnival has only the Vista to look forward to. Yeah, I'd say Carnival is falling behind.

[t1adams]

My conundrum is that I want to cruise to exotic ports (far southern Carribean) but don't wish to pay exotic prices that the other cruiselines charge. I cruise MAINLY for my destinations!!! How else can one travel to so many different places at the price Carnival is charging??? I think if you chose to cruise from this perspective, and Carnival continues to have ports in these exotic locations, they'll continue to make money. If they begin to cheese everything back to the point they ONLY visit "third world ports" or ports where crime is super high, they'll begin to lose money. I can only cruise once a year but they're seven or eight day cruises. Next year we go to Aruba for 8 days. It's NOT CHEAP! Not even on Carnival! $3800 for a family of four with a balcony cabin. But it would cost a lot more than that on another line. A niche Carnival has with these ports we are going to is there ISNT any other line cruising to these ports when we are going to be there. Makes Carnival actually stand out! :D

 

If Carnival really wanted to get a leg up on the competition, they should do even more itineraries that the other lines aren't doing....like maybe do an "ABC Island Cruise." Aruba, Bonaire, and Curaçao, all in one cruise. I'm going to two of these but I've been reading on other Cruiseline threads how so many people wish there was such a cruise on Celebrity and on RCI. There ARE other people out there who, like me, cruise mainly for the ports.

 

 

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Edited May 12, 2014 by t1adams

[EngIceDave]

RCI has 5 newbuilds on the books. NCL 2. Even Viking Ocean Cruises will go from 0 to 4 new ships by 2017. Meanwhile, Costa gets the old Celebration transferred from Ibero, who it looks likely will be shuttered by the end of 2015. Carnival has only the Vista to look forward to. Yeah, I'd say Carnival is falling behind.

 

and by doing so, how much is RCL leveraging themselves?

You and I both know they're not paying cash for them, so how much additional debt is that on the books? Is that necessary debt? Could RCL build more Freedom Class of ships at a lower cost, albeit more up to date, and keep more debt off the books?

Didn't we learn a few years ago that massive debt on the books is not a good thing?

 

Who's really being more fiscally responsible?

 

Carnival seems to have to real customer demand issues with the number of ships presently in their fleet.

 

So maybe more and newer isn't always better?

[TPFKAH]

and by doing so, how much is RCL leveraging themselves?

You and I both know they're not paying cash for them, so how much additional debt is that on the books? Is that necessary debt? Could RCL build more Freedom Class of ships at a lower cost, albeit more up to date, and keep more debt off the books?

Didn't we learn a few years ago that massive debt on the books is not a good thing?

 

Who's really being more fiscally responsible?

 

Carnival seems to have to real customer demand issues with the number of ships presently in their fleet.

 

So maybe more and newer isn't always better?

 

How does any of this matter to the customers experience? That's as odd as saying a visit to a house that's fully paid off is different than one with an 80%!mortgage.

[EZ4]

http://economics-files.pomona.edu/jlikens/SeniorSeminars/Likens2012/reports/Carnival.pdf

[EngIceDave]

How does any of this matter to the customers experience? That's as odd as saying a visit to a house that's fully paid off is different than one with an 80%!mortgage.

 

Maybe I misunderstood, is the discussion about how they conduct business or your personal experiences as a customer?

[EZ4]

Maybe I misunderstood, is the discussion about how they conduct business or your personal experiences as a customer?

 

One has a lot to do with the other. If Carnival slips, it will and does affect the passenger experience.

[bobar]

I thin k at the end of the day it is all based on why you cruise. when i started cruising in 1997, lines such as premier and commodore were still in business. there ships were old and small but they had real comfortable cabins, great service and outdoor deck space everywhere...70 cruises later of which 67 have been in the caribbean, i sail to lay in the sun during the day, gamble and enjoy a show or 2 in the evening and have a large comfortable cabin to sleep and relax in .carnival delivers these important things to me better than any other line..i also have watched their food and service evolve over the last 10 years. I have been on rccl and ncl quite a few times and they have much smaller cabins and less outdoor space comparativly so i think carnival is doing fine with what they have and offer and will continue to attract folks like myself who love the things i love. i have no desire to ice skate at sea, etc.. i also like that at carnivals pricepoint i can go on 3 or 4 cruises a year and not 1 or 2..keep up the good work carnival. keep the deck space, keep the cabin size, great job with the george lopez comedy clubs and keep improving the food and service and i will be there to spend my money on your product!:cool:

[morganboys]

I really couldn't disagree more. Carnival is building ships that are quite innovative and while not looking to build behemoths have increase the size of their ships and added unique features in their Dream Class ships.

 

With the ongoing addition of 2.0 upgrades on the Conquest class ships even those feel new and fresh.

 

I don't think you can compare a Conquest class to a Breeze or a Magic.....the later simply have so much more than the former class that it's apples to oranges.

 

The Vista is going to be the largest and newest class of ship that comes out in 2016, and while I'm very excited to start seeing how the larger space is used I'm not really a fan of the ships getting too much bigger......I'm glad the Conquest and Dream class ships will still be around for a few more decades.

 

I don't really see us cruising with RCCL or NCL.

 

which ships would they be building? They have 1 on order and rccl has what 4 or 5. Not sure how many ncl has but it is higher than one. pretty sure redecorating a ship isn't the same as building a new ship. no one says carnival has to match rccl with the behemoths of the seas but a new ship to WOW us would be nice. The vista will be nice no doubt, but how does that compare to the new rccl quantum of the seas? It simply doesn't. imo carnival fell behind years ago.

Edited May 12, 2014 by morganboys

[Hendricks Clan]

So you think Carnival should jump on the bandwagon and join the race to put themselves out of a huge part of the population's pocketbooks?

 

This may come as a surprise to you, but I don't give a flip about the new stuff coming out on the mega ships. I will not pay for all those things I will not get use of.

 

You can buy an s class merc, but how many of those do you see on the roads? I look at them and admire them but I will never own one because I am not willing to pay that for transportation.

 

This is a tiring excuse. CCL isn't that much cheaper than a comparable cruise on NCL or RCI. As I previously stated, we cruised over Easter on NCL on the Epic. It was an average of $150pp cheaper than doing a Western Caribbean cruise on the Glory, Liberty, or Conquest. Carnival was that much higher even with my interline discount factored in (NCL doesn't offer interline rates). Even if they were the same exact price, the majority of people would choose the Epic over those 3 ships because its in a league all in its own when compared to those 3 Carnival ships.

 

Just an FYI. Im going on the Getaway on 6/28. The current rate for a Balcony is $1,019pp before taxes for the 7-Day Eastern Caribbean. Now Carnival isn't offering an 7-Day Eastern Caribbean sailing that week as far as I can tell. However the week before on the Conquest its $1,179pp before taxes. A 7-Day Western Caribbean cruise departing on 6/29 on the Conquest is $1,089pp. Why would anyone choose to sail on the much older Conquest over a brand new ship that blows the Conquest out of the water in terms of its offerings for more money?

 

I get it, the cheerleaders don't like anything bad said about CCL especially when one uses facts. I know, I used to be one of those people until I got extremely tired of CCL's antics and branched out to try RCI and NCL. CCL has many great attributes but so do the other lines. I'm glad I found NCL, as they offer the product most closely to what I'm looking for. I have been switching out and back by cruising NCL during the Spring and Fall, and CCL for the Summer as NCL used to not have ships in the Caribbean during the Summer. Now, that they are building more ships and basing ships to the Caribbean year round from Miami, I'm not sure i'll ever be back to CCL. For people to continually play the price/cheaper card about CCL just isn't accurate. They offer far less, for the same and sometimes higher fare.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Hendricks Clan

[jwalk03]

I believe you were the one that the Freedom would be Sunshined.

 

Another new screen name.... ugh! :rolleyes:

[Rosefloater]

The current rate for a balcony on the June 22, 2014 sailing on the Carnival Conquest is $819 pp. before taxes. And, only $669 for a guarantee. Have to go further in the booking process to see these rates.

[EZ4]

Another new screen name.... ugh! :rolleyes:

 

Imagine that, huh?