Is Carnival Falling Behind?

[kybluecruiser]

Couple of comments and we can move on as we seem to disagree on pretty much everything.

 

I have been to shows in Vegas and Broadway, I agree there is no comparison, but not the way you think, but they are both better than a cruise ship show. I did not mention price, parking or seating in my post (so don't equate my use of talent level with your other words (sound familiar?).

 

While the "main players" may have been on Broadway, there is a big difference

between being in Broadway production and being the star. If you think it's the same thing, so be it.

 

Who said anything about an ice show? Do they have ice shows on Broadway?

 

Let's move on.;)

Jimbo you wil get accused of taking this anti Carnvial stuff personal lolol.... What i do not understand is why it is for hard for some to believe that many like the playlist productions and do not in anyway see them as a down grade. I alluded to a current review on cc by gambee. Where he stated after sailing all the "innovated" ships the playlist productions on the. Breeze were the only ones that he actually liked and wanted to see. Then i got accused of taking it personal. Oh well. Lol

Edited May 21, 2014 by kybluecruiser

[TPFKAH]

Couple of comments and we can move on as we seem to disagree on pretty much everything.

 

I have been to shows in Vegas and Broadway, I agree there is no comparison, but not the way you think, but they are both better than a cruise ship show. I did not mention price, parking or seating in my post (so don't equate my use of talent level with your other words (sound familiar?).

 

While the "main players" may have been on Broadway, there is a big difference

between being in Broadway production and being the star. If you think it's the same thing, so be it.

 

Who said anything about an ice show? Do they have ice shows on Broadway?

 

Let's move on.;)

 

Being a friend of one of the producers of one of the very Broadway shows we are talking about, it is probably YOUR expectation that a Broadway show cast and production is better on Broadway, but casts rotate, evolve, interchange, and the very people you may see in the Simon Theatre may be the same folk rotating on a cruise ship.

 

Personally, the Menzel/chenoweth Wicked was a LOT better than the current cast they have now. The Matthew James Thomas Pippin was better than the lead now (although neither rival John Rubenstein). And even he as a Matinee sub on Wednesdays in Spider-Man in the Dark was better than the lead.

 

It's all relative, and there's plenty of actors out there with talent ready to play those parts; some you know, some you may not.

[TPFKAH]

Jimbo you wil get accused of taking this anti Carnvial stuff personal lolol.... What i do not understand is why it is for hard for some to believe that many like the playlist productions and do not in anyway see them as a down grade. I alluded to a current review on cc by gambee. Where he stated after sailing all the "innovated" ships the playlist productions on the. Breeze were the only ones that he actually liked and wanted to see. Then i got accused of taking it personal. Oh well. Lol

 

We produce local theatre on a very sub par level, but the feedback we ALWAYS RECEIVE is that the live music always supersedes the canned stuff. We are fortunate to tap into a local theatre and arts college where the students donate their community service time to do such, and many come back and tell us they have been picked up in NYC theatre.

 

Led Zeppelin live was a lot better than the Hayden Planetarium Lazarium as well.

[Cruzaholic41]

Who said anything about an ice show? Do they have ice shows on Broadway?

 

I did in my first post - see below where I mentioned the high quality entertainment started with Voyager. That's when they first introduced Studio B.

 

The hottest trend in mass market cruising right now is the focus on quality entertainment. For this, RCI surpassed Carnival a long time ago when they built Voyager.

 

By the way, I am not cruise line loyal and for the record, neither RCI nor Carnival or my favorite lines. I actually prefer Celebrity and Princess. But because of my CLIA membership, I understand the trends. A little of what I'm saying is my opinion, but in speaking about the entertainment, that is a big focus now due to passenger feedback collected by major travel sources. I do think CCL's Playlist Productions is a good thing, but it's sporadic - not regular.

 

I actually work in the travel industry - not a TA - but a wider scope.

 

The biggest driver in all this is competition (duh), and competition is evolving faster than ever. One of Carnival's hurdles is their own size. The parent company is almost too large for its own good, so in the act of balancing their brands, none can grow and develop as fast as the smaller cruise corporations, like RCCL and NCL.

[Hendricks Clan]

Yes - Carnival is falling behind. By 2016, Carnival will no longer be the largest cruise line. They are being surpassed by RCI both in ships and passengers. So in that respect, it is undisputable fact they are falling behind.

 

Now on to the opinions that obviously vary. First, some of you on both sides need to get over this mentality that if your favorite line introduces something it's the greatest thing since since the creation of beer but if another line introduces it you say stupid things like "if I want that I'll stay home." Geez - that's one of the dumbest things ever said on these boards. :rolleyes:

 

I have been in the travel industry for a long time and attend some CLIA events. The hottest trend in mass market cruising right now is the focus on quality entertainment. For this, RCI surpassed Carnival a long time ago when they built Voyager. Now they have licensed agreements with Hairspray, Chicago, Saturday Night Fever, Mama Mia, and whatever they put on Anthem. NCL isn't far behind and they are now in an effort to upgrade their shows on their entire fleet. So again, this is an area that is undisputable. Carnival cannot touch RCI or NCL in the field of entertainment.

 

Ok - that satisfied that crowd. Now for the Carnival lovers. I swore off this cruise line when I cruised Dream. I was sick and tired of them making slight changes to Conquest and putting a different name on it. However, I just cruised the Breeze and my faith in Carnival was restored. The entertainment was still nothing to brag about, but getting rid of Farcus was the best thing they ever did. The ship is beautiful. It still has some major flaws due to lack of privacy on the balconies, but it is still a step in the right direction.

 

Thats good to hear. I havent been on the Breeze since I've began sailing NCL but if the price is right I just might be tempted to give it a try. We actually looked at the Breeze before deciding on Epic as Aruba was of interest to us. However price wise, there was no way I was paying $150pp more for CCL than what I could cruise the Epic for.

[JustMeandTheSea]

Thats good to hear. I havent been on the Breeze since I've began sailing NCL but if the price is right I just might be tempted to give it a try. We actually looked at the Breeze before deciding on Epic as Aruba was of interest to us. However price wise, there was no way I was paying $150pp more for NCL than what I could cruise the Epic for.

 

What date are you cruising the Epic?

[stevenr597]

Cruising is having to do nothing, but having plenty to do if you choose.

 

Cruising is a relaxing time with a beautiful view passing by just outside.

 

Cruising is a gentle roll and back and forth motion.

 

Cruising is fine food, drink, and delicious dessert.

 

Cruising is a comfortable room / cabin with a steward that picks up after you.

 

Cruising is pleasant background music soothing away thoughts of anything else.

 

Cruising is seeing places and doing things you don't ordinarily get to see or do.

 

Cruising is the feeling of being at sea.

 

We experienced these things on our first cruise twenty five years ago and we have experienced the same things on each cruise since. We are not looking for a new restaurant to try, a new wall to climb, a new car to smash into another car, or a cherry picker view of our ship. We'll be content to have a nice sized balcony and a lounge chair or three to sit in on our balcony.

 

Our experiences would be the same on Royal Caribbean, Norwegian, Princess, or other similar cruise lines. Carnival provides the one ingredient that no other cruise line can provide; proven familiarity. We know what to expect and are comfortable with what we receive. In our case Carnival cannot possibly fall behind because all we expect will always be there.

 

The main reason we have not sailed the largest 'greatest' ships is the same reason we tend to avoid ship excursions; we avoid the herds. Herds of people all being directed to or away from something simply to get them thru the experience....without experiencing it. Bigger is better in regards to many things in life, but in our choice of cruise ships, we want a size that will afford us the feeling of being at sea and not being herded thru.

 

But wouldn't it be nice that even if you wanted to do nothing on a cruise ship but relax, you would have the option, while on a ship for up to two weeks, to have other or new activities.

[Hendricks Clan]

What date are you cruising the Epic?

 

Already cruised... Went April 13th-20th.

[Big_G]

I also find it interesting how people who say they will never cruise Carnival again come here and frequent the Carnival boards. :)

 

Where was that comment? :rolleyes:

Edited May 22, 2014 by Big_G

[Hendricks Clan]

You are correct, I was unsure about what I remembered about the agreement. While other cruise lines may be able to buy space, we know that won't happen. Terrible deal for Tortola, hope the arrangement is not long. It was a gem stop for us it was very refreshing. Disappointing that it worked out that way.

 

 

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Something I haven't thought of is, CCL is adamant about not buying berthing space from NCL and DCL (in a way I don't blame them), but its sort of hypocritical of CCL. They don't have their own private island, most ships use HAL's Half Moon Cay (Carnival Corp). If space at HMC is starting to get limited why not use Princess' private island (another Carnival Corp brand)? The part I find hypocritical is they won't buy betting space from NCL and DCL for Tortola, but instead of using Princess' private island, they have bought berthing space from RCI to use CocoCay (aka Little Stirrup Cay)...kind of a head scratcher there!

Edited May 22, 2014 by Hendricks Clan

[jimbo5544]

Something I haven't thought of is, CCL is adamant about not buying berthing space from NCL and DCL (in a way I don't blame them), but its sort of hypocritical of CCL. They don't have their own private island, most ships use HAL's Half Moon Cay (Carnival Corp). If space at HMC is starting to get limited why not use Princess' private island (another Carnival Corp brand)? The part I find hypocritical is they won't buy betting space from NCL and DCL for Tortola, but instead of using Princess' private island, they have bought berthing space from RCI to use CocoCay (aka Little Stirrup Cay)...kind of a head scratcher there!

 

 

I did not say they were adamant not to use Tortola. Do I think they will use it? No. Cost factors will probably prevent it. Cruise lines now use other lines islands or facilities as you mention, where it fits. My comments and thoughts on Tortola were on how much I enjoyed our visit there and on how I thought the island was making the wrong decision.

 

For them, I hope it works out. Deals like that usually only favor one side the cruise company.

 

For the record, other cruise lines have sole use of a island or port within a chain like HMC you mentioned of Grand Turk or Labadee. This is for the entire country. As I said before, very dangerous ground to tread on.

 

 

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Edited May 22, 2014 by jimbo5544

[TPFKAH]

I did not say they were adamant not to use Tortola. Do I think they will use it? No. Cost factors will probably prevent it. Cruise lines now use other lines islands or facilities as you mention, where it fits. My comments and thoughts on Tortola were on how much I enjoyed our visit there and on how I thought the island was making the wrong decision.

 

For them, I hope it works out. Deals like that usually only favor one side the cruise company.

 

For the record, other cruise lines have sole use of a island or port within a chain like HMC you mentioned of Grand Turk or Labadee. This is for the entire country. As I said before, very dangerous ground to tread on.

 

 

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Actually, Tortola is just an island that's part of the British Virgin Islands. What was always odd to me was this being a port of call, yet many simply took a ferry over to Virgin Gorda to visit the baths.

 

We happened to stay on the island and took a catamaran over to Cane Garden Bay, and found ourselves looking at the back of St Thomas.

[Tapi]

2- Production Shows- Reservations Required

 

 

Personally, before I sailed on the Allure, I thought that the reservations were a dumb thing. After taking that cruise, I realized that it was a very smart idea, and one that might be emulated by other cruise lines to alleviate some of the bottlenecks that we see. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to attend a show on Carnival, only to be met by a mob of people trying to get in and ultimately leaving when I couldn't find a seat.

 

Reservations mean that you know that you'll have a guaranteed seat. It also means that there will be more crowd control since there will be multiple performances throughout the week and only those with reservations will be in attendance.

 

The reservations system is just one more way why sailing on the Allure and Oasis feel much less crowded than on any ship in the Carnival fleet, and why sometimes you walk around these ships feeling as if you have the place all to yourself. They are truly engineering and innovation marvels and nobody (specially those who've never sailed on them and make uneducated comments) can take that away from them.

 

 

 

 

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Edited May 22, 2014 by Tapi

[Tapi]

My mom booked her first and only cruise on Carnival because of all the Carnival cruises I had been on. She booked the Paradise.

 

 

 

When she got back, she asked me what the hell was wrong with me.

 

 

My parents don't understand why we cruise on Carnival either. And it's not because they haven't sailed on them. They have, multiple times (every single time convinced by me to join us on a family vacation :o), but they think that the product is subpar and awful. In fact, when I started organizing our family cruise to Alaska last year and I presented it to them, the first thing out of their mouth was "We will go as long as it's NOT on Carnival" :eek:

 

My mother has told me that the only cruise that has been worse than Carnival was when we took a 4 night on the defunct Cape Canaveral Cruise Lines aboard the 50 year old, 13,000 ton decrepit Dolphin IV!

 

 

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Edited May 22, 2014 by Tapi

[StaceySteveDMB]

My parents don't understand why we cruise on Carnival either. And it's not because they haven't sailed on them. They have, multiple times (every single time convinced by me to join us on a family vacation :o), but they think that the product is subpar and awful. In fact, when I started organizing our family cruise to Alaska last year and I presented it to them, the first thing out of their mouth was "We will go as long as it's NOT on Carnival" :eek:

 

My mother has told me that the only cruise that has been worse than Carnival was when we took a 4 night on the defunct Cape Canaveral Cruise Lines aboard the 50 year old, 13,000 ton decrepit Dolphin IV!

 

 

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Crazy. What ships have they been on?

 

 

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[Hendricks Clan]

Personally, before I sailed on the Allure, I thought that the reservations were a dumb thing. After taking that cruise, I realized that it was a very smart idea, and one that might be emulated by other cruise lines to alleviate some of the bottlenecks that we see. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to attend a show on Carnival, only to be met by a mob of people trying to get in and ultimately leaving when I couldn't find a seat.

 

Reservations mean that you know that you'll have a guaranteed seat. It also means that there will be more crowd control since there will be multiple performances throughout the week and only those with reservations will be in attendance.

 

The reservations system is just one more way why sailing on the Allure and Oasis feel much less crowded than on any ship in the Carnival fleet, and why sometimes you walk around these ships feeling as if you have the place all to yourself. They are truly engineering and innovation marvels and nobody (specially those who've never sailed on them and make uneducated comments) can take that away from them.

 

 

 

 

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Your spot on with your observations in regards to the reservation system. Like I mentioned earlier if one is uncomfortable with having to make a reservation for a show on Breakaway, Epic, Getaway, Allure, or Oasis then they just simply show up at the theater like normal and get a seat first come first serve after the people with reservations have been let in.

[jimbo5544]

Crazy. What ships have they been on?

 

 

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I know, there must be something in the water.

[Tapi]

Crazy. What ships have they been on?

 

 

Imagination, Destiny and Liberty. Which is a bit ironic since I consider the Liberty to be the best ship in the Carnival fleet.

 

 

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[StaceySteveDMB]

Imagination, Destiny and Liberty. Which is a bit ironic since I consider the Liberty to be the best ship in the Carnival fleet.

 

 

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We will be on the Legend in a couple weeks. I will try to post some pics that maybe you can convince the with for your Alaska trip next year.

 

 

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[big al]

Bigger ships = More people = Longer lines:eek:

 

NOT TRUE!! A HUGE misconception on all boards is that the huge RCI Oasis/ Allure ships because of their size, are crowded with long lines..I felt more crowded on the Fantasy, Sensation, Destiny, NCL Pearl, etc. When I cruised the Oasis 4 years ago, I was STUNNED at how well RCI designed these ships...the 7 neighborhoods were absolutely brilliant to build...I NEVER felt crowded other than in the Windjammer the first day, when all those people got on board and went right to eat...maybe in the Royal Promenade during the parades, or Retro 70's Disco night, other than that, I was so impressed at the layout...

 

Regarding CCL falling behind RCI & NCL, I recently toured the NCL Breakaway & Getaway, and both, IMO, were spectacular for dining options, entertainment- both blow away any Carnival ship in that area. Also the pool deck has plenty of slides & activities for kids to do. My friend took his first NCL cruise last June on the Breakaway after previously sailing RCI, Celebrity, and Princess ( 12 total cruises) . He said the entertainment on the Breakaway was THEE best he's ever seen on any ship, and he loved the food, INCLUDING the MDR...like me, he specially liked Teppanyaki ( Japanese Steakhouse) , Le Bistro ( French) and Cagney's Steakhouse..also, he & his wife loved O'Sheehans, the 24 hour Irish Pub, where they had free fish & chips 4-5 times during the cruise..said he sail NCL again in a heartbeat....

 

From what I've read, Carnival has fallen behind in entertainment- I've read the main production shows have gone down hill ...also, this DJ by the pool thing would turn me off completely- I love to hear a Caribbean band by the pool, it goes along with a cruise..many have agreed the DJ is too loud and the music stinks...sure music & entertainment are subjective, but this is what I am reading from these CCL boards. What CCL does have is some good itineraries and good pricing...one reviewer called them the "Walmart" of cruising- cheaper because their ships are not nearly as nice as RCI, Disney ( for sure that one..), Celebrity ( Solstice class amazing), RCI'S Freedom & Oasis class ( even Voyager & Radiance class ships are nice) are, to me, fabulous, and have a "WOW" factor I didn't experience on Carnival, Princess or HAL..cabins, IMO, much nicer on RCI, with much bigger balconies ( RCI avg. 53-65 SF vs, CCL avg. 38-42 SF)....I've done 6 CCL cruises of my 29, and although we had a good time, it is interesting that I've had noise problems ( noisy neighbors, kids running in halls, people too loud outside your door or balcony) 4 times- all 4 were on Carnival, which perpetuates the stereotype in the industry that Carnival is a party line with loud, drunken college kids, etc...even MSC, which I recently toured with the Divina ,has just ordered 4 new ships between 154,000 & 167,000 tons with lots of goodies...BTW, the MSC Divina was THEE most beautiful ship I've ever seen, bar none...people have also told me she has the best nightly production shows they've ever seen- and this comes from experienced cruisers...

 

These are just my thoughts & opinions..one thing I always say, "don't knock it, till you try it"...I am not loyal to any cruise line- we have sailed CCL, RCI, NCL, Disney, Celebrity, Princess, & HAL..all have pluses & minuses, all offer a different cruise experience to different destinations, in a different environment..I would never say, "I only eat at XXX restaurants" , or "I only stay at Marriotts or Hiltons"...variety is the spice of life ESPECIALLY on cruise ships, and you should try & experience as many as you can..what a shame NOT to experience: CCL's chocolate melting cake, RCI's Central Park at night on Oasis & Allure, Disney's AMAZING musicals at night, NCL's LeBistro & the Fruit Fondue, a dessert that brings you different fruits in a pineapple bottom, that you can dip in chocolate fondue, Celebrity's famous Martini Bar on Solstice ships, the AquaPark diving show on Oasis & Allure, where divers jump 56 feet from a ledge into a small pool only 17 ft deep ( really sick!!), or my favorite private islands in order- Castaway Cay ( Disney), Half- Moon Cay ( HAL) and Labadee ( RCI)...all these experiences are different, and, IMO, worthwhile...I think people who say, "I've cruised 12 times- all on XXXX", are very silly..I'm glad I don't go out to dinner with them, LOL...

 

Big Al

[richstowe]

My apologies for reviving this thread but I was very impressed with so many of the posts.

I'm in the "love innovation as long as I don't have to pay for it" camp.

I care about the quality of the cruise food and service but not whether a cruise line is "falling behind"

with new and exciting changes which seem to be code for let's figure out how to boost revenues.

 

I strongly believe that ALL the mass market line are under cost pressures.

As an example, in March of last year we took our first Celebrity cruise. It was incredible!:)

The food, service and general ambiance were easily a step up from Carnival (and RC).

We were treated as honored guests in a sophisticated adult environment.

Fast forward one year to this March, we took another Celebrity cruise.What a disappointment.

Yes we still enjoyed our vacation ,it was a cruise after all , but there were definite downgrades.

 

Celebrity has pretty much eliminated their activity staff, eliminated the "Grand Buffet" and no longer serves lobster on shorter cruises

to name just 3 of several cuts. The staff were overall less then wonderful .

Perhaps we had unrealistic expectations having booked Aqua class . Perhaps .

The point is that it's not just Carnival that is struggling to maximize standards while holding the line on costs.

 

I will continue to look at all options when selecting my next cruise. One thing I won't worry about is whether it's "falling behind".;)

[jimbo5544]

My apologies for reviving this thread but I was very impressed with so many of the posts.

 

I'm in the "love innovation as long as I don't have to pay for it" camp.

 

I care about the quality of the cruise food and service but not whether a cruise line is "falling behind"

 

with new and exciting changes which seem to be code for let's figure out how to boost revenues.

 

 

 

I strongly believe that ALL the mass market line are under cost pressures.

 

As an example, in March of last year we took our first Celebrity cruise. It was incredible!:)

 

The food, service and general ambiance were easily a step up from Carnival (and RC).

 

We were treated as honored guests in a sophisticated adult environment.

 

Fast forward one year to this March, we took another Celebrity cruise.What a disappointment.

 

Yes we still enjoyed our vacation ,it was a cruise after all , but there were definite downgrades.

 

 

 

Celebrity has pretty much eliminated their activity staff, eliminated the "Grand Buffet" and no longer serves lobster on shorter cruises

 

to name just 3 of several cuts. The staff were overall less then wonderful .

 

Perhaps we had unrealistic expectations having booked Aqua class . Perhaps .

 

The point is that it's not just Carnival that is struggling to maximize standards while holding the line on costs.

 

 

 

I will continue to look at all options when selecting my next cruise. One thing I won't worry about is whether it's "falling behind".;)

 

 

Nice post and well thought out.

 

 

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[kshees]

While the bigger ships may not be for everybody, this is one of the biggest misconceptions about ships like the Oasis twins. There are no lines, literally. Everything, including the design of the cruise terminal and the layout of the ship, is done in such a way that everybody is scattered over a larger area, giving the feeling as if you're, many times, all by yourself. It's truly an amazing thing to see how they handle the crowds.

 

The Oasis twins are divided into 5 neighborhoods. Think of it as 5 smaller ships tied together. Not once did I stand in line for anything, from the moment we boarded until we got off the ship on the last day.

 

I have felt much more crowded and stood in much longer lines on a Fantasy class ship, which have a worse passenger flow and ship design, as well as a less favorable space to passenger ratio.

 

 

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I agree with everything you said. I have been on 8 Carnival cruises and enjoyed them. We just got off RCL's Oasis and loved that also. We didn't really experience any lines. We also didn't feel nickel and dimed either. The Oasis and Allure are an experience and in my opinion, we went on it to experience the ship and the islands were an addition.

I agree with you Carnival has marketed to a niche that has been successful for them. I think the food is the same on both lines, the alcohol drinks are much better on Carnival, my DH liked Carnivals steak house as opposed to Chops, and I think the staff even though nice on both lines, seemed not as happy on RCL. The crewmembers are friendlier on Carnival. The reason we tried RCL was we were getting bored with Carnival. The entertainment on Carnival sucks compared to RCL and since we always get a suite RCL's suite perks are way better than Carnivals. I know they are marketing to a certain demographic so they are happy with that but I think they can do better in some areas.

[Isasprings]

You are 100%. Carnival's innovations are not in the same class as RCCL and NCL. But once again, that's not what Carnival is interested in to set them apart. That doesn't mean that they are falling behind. Different cruise lines offer something different that attracts different passengers.

 

Here's another example. Last summer, we sailed on HAL for the first time. Talk about a night and day experience from our previous sailings on the Allure of the Seas! The ship was much smaller, very traditional, and void of anything innovative. But, they excelled with all the small details, the white gloved service, room service delivered in fine china, fresh flowers throughout the ship, a quiet pool deck with no live music or any type of organized entertainment, throw blankets for balcony use, and laundry delivered in a wicker basket wrapped in paper tissue and a gold foil seal.

 

Would you say that HAL is falling behind because their ships are not "innovative"? No. They choose to attract passengers by offering something that sets them apart from other mass market cruise lines. For HAL, it happens to be a more refined experience. For Carnival, it happens to be budget pricing. Is either one falling behind?

 

 

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Tapi I agree with you 100% about Hal I love it.

I cruise with Carnival because of the last minute prices and fun.

I will like to cruise again with Hal maybe next year Alaska.:)